The Daredevil Draft R1 | Sjor Bepo vs. Enigma

With all players at their peak, which team do you think would win this game?


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GodShaveTheQueen

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------------------------------------ SJOR BEPO------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ENIGMA -----------------------------------

Sjor Bepo's write up:

Tactics

431Dejo1 counter-attacking side
Team is built for pleasure so the tactics are the same, go out and have fun <3
Idea was to get the best out of two Zvezda Mavericks - Prosinecki and Savicevic.

Prosinecki
  • full of running and energy but needs a proper defensive shield behind himself and who better then our very own defensive mastermind in Michael Carrick, absolute rock of the club in pretty much the most successful period in history of the club. Also the perfect fit on the ball as well with his perfect mix of selflessness and ability on the ball that should suit Prosinecki to a t.
  • while he showed he can easily play with a n10 in his fantastic performance at WC 90 alongside Piksi in my opinion its better to surround him with direct dribblers so joining his partner in crime Savicevic is the third King of Zvezda - Dragan Dzajic, completing the Yugoslav Bermuda Triangle
Savicevic
  • he will over complicate, he will lose the ball but feck me if there is anyone that is able to single-handedly destroy the oppositions defensive shape as Il Genio - to help him do so he is awarded complete freedom in both offensive and defensive segment.
  • Will naturally drift to the right side but given the fact he will float all over it was key to find a wingback that can dominate the flank alone
  • Defensively both are helped with one of the best defensive mids ever in Tigana who is also quite nimble in possession which is a great asset. Also the whole midfield three is pretty good defensive wise, two absolute units defensive wise that would even be at home playing in a midfield two but also helped with a bundle of energy that is young Robert Prosinecki, not the best tactically(not bad either) but will provide great energy.
  • Kocsis up front - can play, can hold the ball, will finish everything and is absolute deadly from any type of cross and with both Dejo and Dzaja on the pitch he should have a lot of chances. Also, very simple tactic but with Kocsis also a very effective is to simply lump it forward towards him where he was absolutely dominant and was used to great effect to just cushion those balls to his partners
Conclusion: Team so good we even have a Balon d'Or winner on the bench!

Enigma's write up:


TACTICS:

DEFENCE:
One of the greatest full backs in Brehme and Vogts, and balanced CB's in Adams/Chumpitaz we have the upper hand in terms of quality in defence. Brehme will act as an attacking full back in his natural role, giving width in attack and allowing Rensenbrink to cut in. Vogts will be in a more balanced role, but he has proven that his contribution in attack is significant, whilst also being well equipped in neutralizing the opposition left winger. Chumpitaz is a good foil to Adams more physical game who is strong in the air and had excellent commanding and positional skills. Both are well equipped in dealing with Kocsis as present a nice mesh of ability in the air coupled with agility and pace on the deck. Vogts is also probably the best fit for dealing with Dzajic, considering they also have history going at each other.

MIDFIELD:
With Rijkaard at the base we have the best protection of our back four, considering he's the GOAT in his role. In front of him we have Van Hanegem as a natural B2B, who will also assist Kopa in the playmaking department. Kopa himself will be closer to the final third but also assume the #10 position, giving him freedom to make his mark. A nitty and very skillful AM, Kopa will be a tough opponent for Carrick to mark and dribbling ability would cause him all sorts of problems in the middle.

ATTACK:
With Rensenbrink, Rep and Puskas we have a trio that is capable of great off the ball movement, dribbling ability and one of the best finishers in the game in Puskas. Puskas/Kopa and Rep / Rensenbrink are familiar to their game and have proven that can work well as a unit, whilst Van Hanegem adds to the attack with his ability to put through balls and exploit their movement.

Key points:
Brehme/ Rensenbrink
are going to give Amoros a run for his money. Savicevic was phenomenal on the ball but is not the most hard working forwards, and we have the ability to target the opposition full back doubling him and creating numerical advantage in attack.
Kopa as #10 - Kopa will have a good game here working between the lines facing Carrick directly and should have the upper hand in this area.
Puskas as the best attacker on the pitch - A match winner on his own the Kopa/Puskas combo can prove to be too much to handle for the opposition defence. Considering the support and creative force he has behind him, he should have a good game here and prove to be a decisive figure.
 

harms

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I remember how someone even benched Vogts (for some obscure oldie) when he was facing my team with Džajić in it :lol:
Which, by the way, was not a correct decision in my book, even though Vogts had a poor game in their most important face-to-face encounter. Džajić was also a completely different player at the Euros – he was a player of an outstanding talent, don't get me wrong, but at the Euros he was untouchable. Genuine contender for the tournament's GOAT title with 2 all-time great individual campaigns by him.


I love both teams, it would be hard to pick a winner here. Lovely use of all of your key players @Šjor Bepo, nice to see the Yugoslavian trio playing in comfortable roles and that defense is simply brilliant. Enigma's side has a lot going on for it as well – especially that midfield and Kopa at the very heart of everything. Even Rep, who I don't rate that highly in terms of his individual ability, is going to play an important role – especially with his runs in behind (on Kopa's through-balls) that are going to create more space for his more talented teammates.
 

Šjor Bepo

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If you not sure let me present you this beautiful man, few quick round questions and obligatory youtube vid.
Q: Goal or assist?
RP: "you remember the goals but to me that was irrelevant, what mattered to me is to do a ball roll at some point"

Q: Is there any club in your career that you regret not playing for?
RP: "i dont know, i dont know....Manchester United"
SB: :(
 

Himannv

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Sjor's team line up a lot better than what I initially thought they would. Having said that, Enigma's team probably shouldn't be allowed. I still don't know how he managed to pick Rijkaard, Puskas, Brehme, and Vogts without getting blocked by someone.
 

Enigma_87

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@harms I watched that game, but now just revisited the highlights too. I think Vogts having a poor game is a bit overstated in that respect. Dzajic goal was a blunder from Maier and he won a lot of 1 on 1 against him, as visible in the video you posted. To me he was a bit average considering he gave him a bit too much time and also some errors in possession, but was hardly a mare. He wasn't really directly at fault for either goal and wasn't beaten often by Dzajic when they faced each other. Dzajic also played a lot like a second striker in large parts of the game, hovering and tucking in many times to create danger, when he was picked zonally by another defender(who didn't really cope well with him). It's fair to say that it's more of Dzajic having a stormer of a tournament rather than defender having a poor game.

Obviously as you mentioned it's hard to keep player like Dzajic at bay, especially considering in what form he was at the time and how he cranked it up at EURO's. He managed to elevate his game for the occasion, but still Vogts record against him in competitive games solid and this is the only goal conceded in over 500 mins both on the pitch (Dzajic scored in a friendly in 71 as a side note).

Having said that, it would be a great battle and although I do believe Vogts is one of the best solutions to come up as a full back against him, he is a player that no doubt will create some problems for us, but we are well equipped with dealing with that danger IMO :)

On Rep - I agree with you - although he is not the flashiest of players, he's important as someone who has an excellent off the ball movement and can create gaps in the opposition defence. He's also a hard working player and would help the team in transition, whilst obviously has a very good eye for the goal and was very versatile playing from a right midfielder, to a winger and striker.
 

Enigma_87

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A big piece on Rep, who rarely features in drafts, but has proven to be one of the finest wingers Holland have produced and the scorer of the most goals at WC for his country - 7.

Johnny Rep: the natural Total Footballer who weaved his way into legend





With so many great players in one team, you make art. You don’t mean to but you do.” These were the thoughts of one of the crucial cogs in the Dutch totaalvoetbal machine of the 1970s, the flying forward, Johnny Rep; a man for whom the complexities and sophistication of total football was, in his own words, “natural”.

With his long, tousled blonde locks flowing as he glided down the wing, Rep stood out not only for his ability and his lethal right foot, but for the rock star image and reputation as something of a bad boy – albeit a reputation he held no sway with.

The name Rep sits alongside those of Cruyff, Neeskens and Krol when you cast your mind back to the brilliant orange images of 1974. Swathed in a glow of 1970s cool, with free-flowing football and free-flowing hair, the gloriously doomed squad that delighted and dazzled featured Rep as one of its key attacking weapons.

Add in the swagger and bravado of a man with supreme confidence in his ability and you have all the makings of an iconic, era-defining player. He was a late addition to the all-conquering Ajax side of the early 1970s, but he was arguably as instrumental in the dominance of Total Football as anyone bar Johan Cruyff.

It was in his on-field links with Cruyff that Rep formed a formidable attacking trio initially at club level alongside Piet Keizer, and subsequently at international level alongside Rob Rensenbrink, that took him within striking distance of the ultimate footballing summit. He remains the Netherlands’ leading scorer at the World Cup with seven goals – four on the way to the final in 1974 and another three as the Dutch fell agonisingly short again in 1978.

Even in the agony of defeat, Rep was the key man. For all the sublime goals and outrageous talent, the highs of his career will always be set alongside the three tragic chances he missed in the 1974 final.

Rep had arrived at Ajax as a 16-year-old in the late 1960s from the humble, unassuming surroundings of Zaandam. There he had come to the attention of Ajax thanks to his performances with the local amateur team in the Dutch second tier, a club who had nurtured the future star from the age of eight.

Spending a year in the Ajax youth team and two years in the second team, Rep settled comfortably into the Ajax way during those formative years. “All the teams wanted to play the same system,” he said, reflecting on his time with Zaandam. “But at Ajax, the players were better, so it was easier to play with them.”

As tempting as it may seem to seem to label Rep as being another Ajax product schooled by the legendary Rinus Michels during this time, that wouldn’t be quite accurate. He may have joined the Amsterdam giants during Michels’ time in charge, but Rep’s initial breakthrough in the first team came at the start of the 1971/72 season, some months after Michels had left Ajax for Barcelona, having just delivered the first of the Amsterdam club’s trio of successive European Cup wins.

The new Ajax coach, Romanian Ștefan Kovács, gave the gangly, awkward looking Rep his debut on the right wing. Rep went on to make sporadic appearances in his first season, occasionally deputising for Ajax legend Sjaak Swart – Mr Ajax as he was known. Rep’s big breakthrough would come a year later.

Early the following season, after Ajax had added another European Cup triumph, they took part in the Intercontinental Cup, having declined to do so the previous year. An hour into the second leg of the clash with Argentine side Independiente, Rep was brought off the bench to replace Swart. The game was very much in the balance at that stage, Ajax leading 1-0 in the night and 2-1 on aggregate.

The benefit of hindsight allows us to flag this moment as the changing of the guard, the passing of the baton from the old to the new. Swart had been a stalwart of Ajax and Dutch football for so long, but his ageing legs were beginning to feel the toll of the intensity. Rep, now 20, came off the bench that night and swaggered onto the right wing, his long blonde highlights flowing and shimmering under the lights.

Within four minutes he had announced himself to the world, scoring his first major goal for Ajax, swinging the match decisively in their favour. Ten minutes from the end of the match he repeated the trick with a sublime, graceful goal, running from the halfway line, past the Argentine defence, and shimmying past the goalkeeper to score. That sealed a 3-0 win, and the global title for the exuberant Dutch.

As first steps towards international renown go, Rep’s weren’t so much a tentative, timid foray into a higher level of play, but were more akin marching headlong into an arena to which he immediately belonged. Swart’s days on the Ajax right may have been numbered by the passing of time, but the emergence of Rep meant that the club wasn’t merely in safe hands, but there were the makings of an electrifying, exuberant, front line alongside Cruyff and Keizer.

On the field, the young Rep was gelling well with his two colleagues, both players he had considered his heroes in his teenage years. But this productive playing relationship was a much more strained one that it appeared on the pitch.

“I had problems with Johan,” said Rep. “We did not get along well, except on the ground. I was a little bit young and Johan was always telling me what to do. Do this, do that. And I was a boy but I spoked back to him. He was stubborn and so was I – that was our problem. And Johan doesn’t like that. You must always say ok. But I did it instinctively because I didn’t like him telling me what to do.” (:D)


Rep was not alone in having such issues with the perfectionist Cruyff. On the field, the Cruyff-led Ajax seemingly continued from strength to strength, but the successes masked a dying of the light for that great team. The end of an era was nigh. Rep had become an essential member of an Ajax team that was entering the final flings of their golden age.

They had one more glittering flourish to their years of continental dominance later that same season, in defeating Juventus in Belgrade to win a third successive European Cup. For Rep, it marked another significant moment in his rapid rise to the top.

He had already been instrumental in the European campaign, particularly in laying on Gerrie Muhren’s stunning semi-final winner away at Real Madrid. He then scored the only goal of the final after only five minutes with a delightful, looping header past Dino Zoff to further enhance his burgeoning reputation, and handy knack of scoring vital goals in the most significant matches. The young Rep’s status in Ajax folklore was now assured.

But in spite of their historic achievement, the Ajax fans returned home from their latest triumph rather subdued, even disgruntled. “Juventus were so frightened,” Rep remembers. “We were surprised. A good team but they did nothing. They seemed satisfied to lose 1-0. We were waiting for them. Come! But nothing. For the public, I’m afraid, it was a very bad game.”

The game had been a dull one, and the manner of victory left many fans, and indeed many of the players who had been there throughout this glorious era, dissatisfied. Having fallen behind, Juventus made little effort to strive for an equaliser, leaving Ajax needing to do little more than pass the ball among themselves for large swathes of the match, playing keep-ball until the clock ticked over to 90 minutes.

“The biggest problem was that everything was so easy,” recalled Rep. “It was such a good team. The players had won everything. They needed another challenge, another team, another club. We had won everything.” For Rep individually, it was a triumph, but for several of his colleagues, it was not the same any more. Many of the team had become jaded and would soon seek new challenges elsewhere.

For Cruyff, the end at Ajax was hastened soon after by an ill-conceived captaincy election, instigated at the start of the following season by the new manager George Knobel. Keizer won the vote by a significant margin. “We just wanted to take someone else,” recalled Rep. “But I think it broke something for Johan. That was it for him. We went further with Johan as a player. But the talking, it was terrible.”

While there was a clear clash of personalities, on the field Cruyff had been a huge influence on the young prodigy. “I learnt a lot of my own play from Cruyff,” Rep would later recall. “Of course, the most important things for a footballer to have are instinct and talent. When you can play football, you don’t need to learn. If you don’t have the instinct, you cannot be a good player. But I learnt a lot from Cruyff. When I was 19 years old he was my mentor. If I was a little bit too relaxed, he was always behind me, always pushing.”

But Cruyff was soon on his way to Barcelona for the 1973/74 season. The great man’s departure allowed Rep to flourish that season with Ajax – freed of the shackles of Cruyff, he relished his new role and the team’s primary attacking focus. This time apart also seems to have allowed relations to mellow somewhat, as by the time the Dutch stars gathered together in the summer of 1974, everything blended together in near perfection.

Aged 22, Rep was a mainstay of the 1974 World Cup team that so captivated the watching world. In their first World Cup appearance for 36 years, the Dutch team clicked from the opening kick-off. Rep marked himself out immediately as their key attacking threat with two neatly taken goals against an overly defensive Uruguay. He scored again in a 4-1 thrashing of Bulgaria as the Netherlands stormed into the second round top of their group.

Ostensibly playing on the right-hand side of a three-pronged attack line, Rep had a tendency to cut inside, very much akin to one of his more recent successors in an orange shirt, Arjen Robben. Added to this were frequent bursts into the box, to be in effect the main striker, making Rep the key source of Dutch goals. He added another – a flying header in the torrential rain to score the Netherlands’ third goal – in the most captivating display they had produced so far, beating Argentina 4-0 to open the second round group stage.


Against Brazil, in the intense and at times brutal de facto semi-final, the young Rep left his mark on the great Rivellino, refusing to be bullied or to back down. Having been jostled by the Brazilian, Rep waited a few seconds and delivered a retaliatory elbow to the face. “He had done it to me before and that was my reaction,” said Rep. “Of course, you look to make sure the referee doesn’t see it. But he started it!” There was a steely side to Rep to complement the silk.

When it came to the final with hosts West Germany, confidence was understandably high. Rep was one of six in the Dutch side to have been schooled in the Ajax way that Michels had now transferred to the national team. The German side was also strongly influenced by just one club, in their case with six players from a Bayern Munich background. But the Ajax contingent had regularly been victorious in clashes between the two.

Having scored four times to bring the Dutch this far, Rep would be central to the lost opportunity of 1974. In the 24th minute, with the Netherlands leading 1-0 thanks to their early penalty, Cruyff broke clear of the German defence and drew the goalkeeper Sepp Maier towards him. He slipped the ball to Rep to add the final flourish and put the dominant Dutch into a deserved and commanding lead. For once, at such a crucial moment, Rep’s normally accomplished finishing deserted him. He stabbed the ball straight at Maier, and the chance was gone.

Up until that point, Rep had been on the periphery of the action in the final, limited to just a few fleeting touches that left him not quite up to speed with the game when this golden chance came along. “I was not very good in the game at that moment,” said Rep. “Not many balls, nothing important. And then you have a very good chance.”

His miss was to prove a real sliding doors moment in the match. Barely a minute later, West Germany won a dubious penalty at the other end of the pitch, and the match was levelled. By half-time the Dutch were trailing, paying a heavy price for their earlier complacency.

Rep was a central character to the second half. Breaking clear on the right, he shot narrowly wide, ignoring the better placed Willem van Hanegem. He later hit the post and had another effort that Maier saved at his feet, in amongst a string of other Dutch chances that went begging.

It was not to be for the dazzling Dutch that day. For Rep, the chances he couldn’t take would linger with him, but the real fault was a collective one, as he described some years later. “We wanted to make fun of the Germans,” he said. “We didn’t think about it but we did it, passing the ball around and around. We forgot to score the second goal. When you see the film of the game, you can see that the Germans got more and more angry. It was our fault. It would have been much better if West Germany had scored in the first minute.”

Many of the same players, Rep included, were back four years later when the global showdown made its way to Argentina. Again, Rep was crucial to the Dutch forward line, along with Rensenbrink and René van der Kerkhof, this time playing more centrally than he had done in 1974 given the absence of Cruyff.

It was a very different experience to that of 1974, where thousands of orange-clad Dutch fans dominated the crowd whenever they played. “It was far away from home and people didn’t have the money to go,” said Rep. “We spent three weeks in a training camp in the Andes. Nobody there. We went crazy. In the first game against Iran in Mendoza there were 5,000 people – not many Dutch. No atmosphere. We played very badly. Against Scotland, 10,000. Again no atmosphere.”

They had started the group stage hesitantly but had seen off Iran with a 3-0 victory. But following a 0-0 draw with Peru, the Dutch were staring down the barrel of elimination as they trailed Scotland 3-1 in the high altitude and bumpy pitch of Mendoza. Archie Gemmell had zigzagged his way to his glorious solo goal, and the Netherlands were on the ropes, with just one more Scottish goal enough to send them home.

Up stepped Rep with the strike that he is probably best remembered for. Dropping deep to collect the ball from Neeskens in midfield he ran into space before unleashing a sumptuously ferocious piledriver that flew into the Scottish net and made the Dutch safe. “A little bit of a lucky goal,” said the man himself. It was a strike of pure instinct, given a lack of other options.

He would score two more in the second phase 5-1 thrashing of Austria, as the Netherlands hit their stride just at the right moment on their way to another date with disastrous destiny in the final with Argentina.

“In 1978 we had a good team,” recalled Rep. “But we were happy just to play the final.” Expectations were somewhat different to those of four years before, of course, when Total Football swash-buckled its way to almost total dominance. The tournament, too, had a different feel to it – almost sinister.

After the sparsely attended early games, when the Dutch moved on to Buenos Aires in the latter stages, the crowds packed in and the atmosphere turned febrile and volatile. “There was 80,000 for the final, but that was terrible too. Argentina had to win. It was bizarre. Not a normal situation. There was some fear too. A lot of people said that if we won the game, there would be a big problem afterwards. All the military, not a good atmosphere. It was too heavy.”

Rather than for Rep as in 1974, the sliding doors moment this time fell to Rensenbrink, hitting the post in the last minute of normal time with the scores level, before the hosts prevailed in extra-time.

In the years between his two World Cup final appearances, Rep had moved on from the now broken-up Ajax team and gone off to earn a salary more in keeping with his abilities in the wealthier leagues of Europe. He had two highly productive seasons in Valencia where he joined forces with his future World Cup final opponent Mario Kempes, as well as Paraguayan striker Carlos Díaz, where Rep averaged almost a goal every other game. “That was the best attack I played in,” said Rep. “Better than with Cruyff and Keizer.”

But for a player as cultured as Rep, the training laid on by the coach, another Paraguayan, Heriberto Herrera, was less than fulfilling. “Discipline? Good. Coaching? Terrible,” was Rep’s verdict. “We never played with a ball in training. Always running.” Amid financial tensions with the Valencia hierarchy, Rep made the very unusual move of paying £150,000 to buy out his own contract so that he was free to move on.

He next shipped up in Corsica to play for a Bastia team that was a rising force in the French game, and had more than a little influence from the local mafia, rumoured to be involved in financing the deal for the high-profile Rep. With Bastia’s play built around their Dutch star, Rep looked instantly more at home.

Just prior to the 1978 World Cup, he’d been not only instrumental in Bastia’s epic run to the UEFA Cup final, but had almost single-handedly dragged them there himself. It was an experience that Rep would describe as “fantastic – the whole island was crazy for one year.” They would ultimately lose to PSV Eindhoven, but such was Rep’s influence on one of the French league’s lesser lights that he earned a move to the principal French club of that era for the start of the 1979/80 season: Saint-Étienne.

There he would form a fearsome combination with the youthful Michel Platini and Dominique Rocheteau. Rep was an instant hit, scoring a hat-trick in one of his first appearances for the club in a UEFA Cup tie with Widzew Łódź, when they had been trailing 2-1 from the first leg.

The impressive output from the gloriously productive front line was best exemplified by another UEFA Cup tie in which Les Verts put six past PSV, including three in the first four minutes of the game. The team were electrifying going forward, and Rep was at its very heart, pulling the string and bringing the best out of the talents surrounding him.

They would go on to win the French title in 1981, but two years later it all came to an ignominious end when the club president became embroiled in financial scandal. However, this French escapade was one of the finest spells of Rep’s career. “If you ask me where I was happiest, the answer will always be Saint-Étienne”’ he noted.

On the international front, Rep’s career had hit a lull in the aftermath of the 1980 European Championship, not being a part of the team that began a tough qualifying group for the 1982 World Cup. Under Ernst Happel’s stewardship, the Dutch were phasing out many of the remaining stars of the 70s to allow a new breed to come through. But after a disastrous opening to that campaign, Happel was replaced by Kees Rijvers, who had been initially reluctant to recall Rep, among others, partly thanks to some outspoken comments Rep had directed at him surrounding that 6-0 thrashing of Rijvers’ PSV by Rep’s Saint-Étienne.

But as the campaign continued to stutter, Rep came back into the squad for the final five qualifiers. It would prove too late for the Dutch, however. In losing to France, they would miss out on reaching the tournament in Spain. It was a failure that would signal the end of Rep’s magnificent international career at the age of 30.

Returning to the Netherlands after it had all gone sour in France, Rep played for PEC Zwolle before having a final fling at the sharp end of the league with Feyenoord. But the best days were behind him and other influences were now taking their toll. The claws of alcoholism were taking over and led to a raft of personal traumas, with more than one failed marriage and being left penniless and homeless. It was a sad end to what had been a remarkable career.

Rep had been central to all that the Dutch achieved in the 1970s, and indeed all that they failed to achieve. As David Winner noted in his Dutch football epic Brilliant Orange, speaking to Rep about the high points of Dutch football: “For me, you are in most of them.” Rep, naturally, wholeheartedly agreed with this assessment.

He was a fabulous footballer who had it all. Skill in abundance, a compelling confidence bordering on nonchalance, an eye for a goal, and a vicious right foot. Total Football had come naturally to him as he stood prominently among one of the finest generations of footballing talent one country has ever produced.
 

Jim Beam

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Considering we are judging the players at their peak that is extremely dangerous team from bepo. Take this video of Prosinecki then Joga's Savicevic against Holland (they actually put Gullit most of the time to watch him and still couldn't stop him) and you'll get the idea what the team is about. To create havoc on a consistent basis.

As a small critic, having Prosinecki and Savicevic I don't see the need for Dzajic. Not just that this two geniuses will be now a bit overlooked, but you suddenly have 3 of them to run the show or 1 too many maybe which may result in too individualistic football at times. Savicevic can and will probably play more one touch football to get things going, but I would prefer Dzajic out of the team. Czibor, even Nedved would be more suitable options to make it really brilliant. Yeah, I know I blocked one of them. :lol:

As for enigma, I think the man can now comfortably draft the team in his sleep and he would wake up with pretty much flawless unit and few GOAT's around. My only complaint is that he pretty much always goes for the same formula or some kind of 4-2-3-1 (could be wrong, but seems that way mostly). In the words of Keane to Queiroz "you have to mix it up a bit sometimes".
Am not sure if that should be of any importance in terms of this match, just my general perception.

In the end, don't know, but for example if this is a real match betting odds would be in enigma's favour. However, I would see it as an opportunity to get some money out of it.

That's me done rumbling, have a nice debate!!
 

Enigma_87

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As for enigma, I think the man can now comfortably draft the team in his sleep and he would wake up with pretty much flawless unit and few GOAT's around. My only complaint is that he pretty much always goes for the same formula or some kind of 4-2-3-1 (could be wrong, but seems that way mostly). In the words of Keane to Queiroz "you have to mix it up a bit sometimes".
Am not sure if that should be of any importance in terms of this match, just my general perception.
Cheers, mate. Will accept that critique, especially in sheep/luck based drafts I tend to go 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/5-3-2 mostly(this one is 4-3-3 btw though, not 4-2-3-1 :D ). Not sure if it is subconscious or some kind of a current fetish, but now that you mention it it really makes me think about it :lol:

Have tried a lot of formations in the past, but really not enough wonky ones / W-M's which is a definitely good idea for future drafts and promise to spice things up.

BTW, I did thought of going with a more unorthodox one(picking Cerezo), but at the end didn't know how Rensenbrink would be accepted on the right and couldn't really bench him, but I guess still have the chance for pulling it through if going through or in Coropa. :)

 

Šjor Bepo

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As a small critic, having Prosinecki and Savicevic I don't see the need for Dzajic. Not just that this two geniuses will be now a bit overlooked, but you suddenly have 3 of them to run the show or 1 too many maybe which may result in too individualistic football at times. Savicevic can and will probably play more one touch football to get things going, but I would prefer Dzajic out of the team. Czibor, even Nedved would be more suitable options to make it really brilliant. Yeah, I know I blocked one of them. :lol:
Agreed. Though i dont think anyone will be overlooked as Prosinecki was equally brilliant as a supporting player rather then the main one and here he has a mixture role where at times he would be the main guy as he is the main guy in the central core of the team but at times would need to let Dzajic have a go at running things and considering how he played with Piksi i dont see major issues.

Regardless of this game id recommend anyone to check this out.
As for Dejo, i dont think anyone can outshine him or make him look overlooked. Thats the beauty and the curse of that bastard, he will play his game no matter what. Here is the story from his good friend Boban:

"We played in the Italian Cup, which was as important as the local amateur tournament, and the Champions League, which was weaker and less important than Serie A in terms of coach and club.… The first choices were Gullit, Van Basten, Papin, plus the great Rijkaard . We Balkans, once the main, and then the supporting characters - the second draft. He didn't put up with it and kept telling me: "Oh my Zvone, they are rubbish, and we… Where are we?". One day he entered the locker room and just sat down without saying goodbye. "What's the matter with you?" I asked him. "Don't ask," he said. When I went out for training, he was doing laps in some rebel slowness. Coach Capello got us together and started the story. At that moment Dejo ran through us, dead cold, as if it was none of his business. Capello quickly dismissed us, called me and asked what was going on. I said I didn't know and that something must be hurting him. He called Dejan, who did not look back, continuing his race in protest and circus. When I dragged him in, and since ‘ciao’ was all from his new vocabulary at the time, I had to translate.


Dejan started the discussion: “Tell him that he is a donkey and that he understands feck all. And that nothing hurts me, and that he won't tell me what to do. Let him speak to his loser, he wont to me! ” Since I was already an ‘obedient’, and I started playing continuously, I didn’t want to translate. Not only because of us, but also because of the great coach. I said he wasn't feeling well… Capello yelled at me not to lie and that he knew he was cursing him, while Dejan ordered me to translate what was needed. Pure madness. As the shouting continued, I detached myself from them and followed the others. Dejo also picked up, while Capello moved training to another field. Scene - unthinkable for everyone. Not for me. I was a witness when he said to Osim a few years ago - ‘either I play or I leave’… ”
To conclude, Dejo wont be overlooked nor overshadowed by anyone and that same Capello put him in his best XI he managed! Not only its not in his personality but also his playing style is not much depended on others. The one that might not get the full freedom is Dzajic(though its still a great platform for him) but nobody cares about him.
 

harms

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@harms I watched that game, but now just revisited the highlights too. I think Vogts having a poor game is a bit overstated in that respect. Dzajic goal was a blunder from Maier and he won a lot of 1 on 1 against him, as visible in the video you posted. To me he was a bit average considering he gave him a bit too much time and also some errors in possession, but was hardly a mare.
Yeah, he got much better in the second half as well, yet still overall Džajić had created quite a few chances aside from scoring a goal. It's definitely nothing like the infamous Matthews/Nilton game – it probably gets mentioned so much because:
1. Džajić was already 30 years old at the time and already playing in France (and he is someone who had peaked quite early)
2. Germany were the reigning World Cup champions and Vogts (surprisingly the same age as Džajić) had performed marvelously in the final and was at the height of his powers
3. That German side were obviously huge favourites, yet the whole Yugoslavian team had steamrolled past them in the first half – with Džajić being their best and most recognizable player he gets most of the credit for that incredible start, even though Žungul, Aćimović & the rest were on fire as well. They really didn't deserve to lose that one :(

Still, as I've said, I wouldn't bench him unless you have someone like Thuram or Djalma – a player of comparable/superior quality with a clean slate against Džajić.
 

Jim Beam

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Have tried a lot of formations in the past, but really not enough wonky ones / W-M's which is a definitely good idea for future drafts and promise to spice things up.
It is not an issue, especially as you always have your teams on point, just the thing that crossed my mind. Sometimes people go too hipster in these things also and award the formation for it's "inventiveness", although the balance doesn't seem right.

For example, that was a good idea, but in terms of balance I prefer this team.

To conclude, Dejo wont be overlooked nor overshadowed by anyone and that same Capello put him in his best XI he managed!
I meant overlooked by voters/people looking at the match you donkey! I know he will be in his element Dzajic there or not.

Brilliant story :drool:
 

Enigma_87

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Yeah, he got much better in the second half as well, yet still overall Džajić had created quite a few chances aside from scoring a goal. It's definitely nothing like the infamous Matthews/Nilton game – it probably gets mentioned so much because:
1. Džajić was already 30 years old at the time and already playing in France (and he is someone who had peaked quite early)
2. Germany were the reigning World Cup champions and Vogts (surprisingly the same age as Džajić) had performed marvelously in the final and was at the height of his powers
3. That German side were obviously huge favourites, yet the whole Yugoslavian team had steamrolled past them in the first half – with Džajić being their best and most recognizable player he gets most of the credit for that incredible start, even though Žungul, Aćimović & the rest were on fire as well. They really didn't deserve to lose that one :(

Still, as I've said, I wouldn't bench him unless you have someone like Thuram or Djalma – a player of comparable/superior quality with a clean slate against Džajić.
Yeah, I can see your point.

Agreed with most of your assessment. To me Yugoslavia despite not having the same quality in defence (obviously Germany had a much superior one), had more creativity in midfield and attack. That German team was lacking players like Overath, Netzer, Breitner, etc - who can control the game and pull the strings in the middle. It was a grand escape all things considered and Oblak, Acimovic, Dzajic as a creative core was superior one to the more workmanlike midfield of Beer, Bonhof, Danner and Wimmer. They also lacked the edge with missing der Bomber.

Dzajic to me is underrated winger in all time sense considering the lack of footage, but most of the times I've seen him he was on fire. Even against Djalma/Thuram on his day he would cause all sorts of problems to any winger with both included. Definitely having a clean slate is better on paper, but even in his later days he was able to adapt his game and despite losing a step or two he was very dangerous both in his clever movement and of course his dribbling and crossing.

In one on one matchups and this game in question, naturally being one of Sjors biggest creative outlets he will put some balls in the box and will create some chances, so either way Vogts to me is one of the best fits for Dzajic (out of 10 games sample naturally one might have better game than the other here and there).

We do have a good core to counter those threats like Adams, Rijkaard and Maier(who didn't have often those klutz moments) and in the same time Chumpitaz/Rijkaard again with the ability to quickly step up and close him if he tucks in and beats his marker.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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As for enigma, I think the man can now comfortably draft the team in his sleep and he would wake up with pretty much flawless unit and few GOAT's around. My only complaint is that he pretty much always goes for the same formula or some kind of 4-2-3-1 (could be wrong, but seems that way mostly). In the words of Keane to Queiroz "you have to mix it up a bit sometimes".
Lets team up Enigma. We can use the 4-2-3-1 formation

LW------FW------FW-------RW
------LAM-----------RAM-------
--LHB-------DM-------RHB---
----------------CB-----------------
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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Think Yugoslavia were also unlucky to lose the Argentina 1990 game from Bepo's Prosinecki highlight. They had have a man sent off around 30 mins and had to carry Osim keeping playing aging, declining 10 Safet Susic (great player earlier in his career though) for 60-70 mins too, but still had clearly the better of the game for me.

This looks like the sort of game where Bepo has maybe picked too many wizards and the more balanced opposition team would more often than not end up winning a very close one...but come away with one or two of their higher profile players reputation having taken a beating from the raw on-ball virtuosity of some of the other team. Rijkaard and Van Hanegem were not the best suited against nimble dribblers and i feel would not contain that from the opposing side without giving away a lot of free kicks. A lesser forward than Puskas and i might have gone the other way.
 

Himannv

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Giving it to Bepo and I think I was maybe too harsh on his team before actually seeing how it might work. I think he's made some ballsy picks and built a team that will really be hard to play against. Enigma's got a great team as well and more shiny names, but I like seeing something different and interesting in lineups or tactics and Bepo certainly delivered on that front.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Giving it to Bepo and I think I was maybe too harsh on his team before actually seeing how it might work. I think he's made some ballsy picks and built a team that will really be hard to play against. Enigma's got a great team as well and more shiny names, but I like seeing something different and interesting in lineups or tactics and Bepo certainly delivered on that front.
afterwards we are celebrating with the gypsies, you sir are invited.
 

Physiocrat

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I had Enigma really high in the seeds by Sjor's side looks really tasty. I'm wondering how much defensive work Kopa would do here. From memory he was more of a forward than a midfielder so I'm thinking maybe Sjor will have more of the ball. Also I was never a huge fan of Adams so would back Kocsis against him. Very tight again, like most of the other games though.
 

Enigma_87

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I had Enigma really high in the seeds by Sjor's side looks really tasty. I'm wondering how much defensive work Kopa would do here. From memory he was more of a forward than a midfielder so I'm thinking maybe Sjor will have more of the ball. Also I was never a huge fan of Adams so would back Kocsis against him. Very tight again, like most of the other games though.
My memories of Kopa is that he was an AM or a wide forward that always seemed to tuck in. He started a lot deeper than your typical forward especially from that time and worked his way into the opposition half by carrying the ball vertically or dribbling through an opponent. He often tried through passes and especially for the national team it was his creative nature from the middle that fed Fontaine.

Considering the era and also the position on the pitch I would say that at his peak he was much more of a midfielder than a forward. He will play as an AM here too and would naturally expect him to be an AM in a 4-3-3.

As for Adams, wonder why is that? To me he was the best English CB in the 90's and was the leader of that Arsenal defensive line, that was one of the best in the league for about a decade. He pulled his weight in England shirt too reaching the 96 EURO semis, conceding only 3 goals en route.

I'd rank him right below Sol Campbell and of course Rio and Moore in terms of the best CB England has seen. He was great in the air, excellent positioning, improved a lot his ball playing skills later in his career, leader and tough in the tackle. The only real issue he had was the lack of pace.

as for Kocsis vs Adams - I rate Kocsis very high so I won't debate he has the nod in individual battle, but it's not straight Adams vs Kocsis so he will be covered and not isolated one on one.
 

Enigma_87

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Good game @Šjor Bepo . Have to say I didn't expect you will line up like this and make a team that us better in terms of sum of its parts before voting. Think the lack of household name and matchwinner would cost you the higher ranking initially.

Well crafted and drilled side and hope you can build on it in Coropa.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Some players are just too big for certain competitions so this gent will say his goodbyes now, been a pleasure <3