The Devil and the Phoenix

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
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Sep 10, 2010
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Over the last few months, reality has slowly hit us. United are a mess.

We aren't close to challenging Liverpool and City, Chelsea have overtaken us, and the likes of Arsenal and Tottenham have bridged the gap.

We are inbetween management, we have a bloated and unhappy squad, and a fanbase left in dismay and confusion.

United keep doing the same things and repeating the same mistakes, so where do we go from here?. I think it's time to accept that as we stand, we cannot move forward without major changes.



The squad needs a complete overhaul, It's far too bloated.


Ideally the new manager should be in place to decide who they could use - but frankly I think a clean slate with space and a bigger budget to shape it how they want is better.
Most of these players have already had a chance to prove themselves and failed to do that, so I don't see why they should get another shot.

The likes of Pogba, Cavani, Lingard, Mata, Martial will be gone permanently, so that's a bit of breathing room already. We then have the next batch of Matic, Henderson, Jones, Bailly, DVB who could all leave. I think some loans for Henderson/DVB would be better and let the new manager decide on them.

Personally for me we have some very exciting youth players that SHOULD be hungry and ready to prove themselves. Elanga, Amad, Mejbri are ready to take part right now, with Laird perhaps ready next year.

If we are trying to play a more energetic pressing game, we need young and more importantly athletic players. Star names like Ronaldo should be a thing of the past if the cannot fit into what we aim to do as a team.

We may be stuck with him over the next 2 years, I hope he can keep his goal return high otherwise things could get very difficult. He's already showing big signs of regression, and deep down I don't think he's playing at a high enough level to warrant keeping him in the starting 11. A big decision will need to be made. How can you aim to play pressing, high energy football with a 37 year old leading it?



We need to start walking before we can run.

When the new manager arrives, the first thing we need to nail is the style of play. This might take a while and results could be poor to start with, but we must remain patient. Too often we seem to abandon what we should be doing just to get short term results.

This might mean we aren't competitive in the first year, but as long as it bears fruit long term, that's what matters. I genuinely think that results will naturally flow once we are playing as a unit. You often seen smaller teams than us like Brighton playing fantastic football, but lacking the quality. There's no reason we should not have both.




Stop handing out insane wages to players who aren't worthy. Start being more cut throat.

Players at United feel far too safe. Too often it's easy street here, the players become 'family' and they are here for the long haul.

We give them huge wages so nobody else will take them, and they run their contracts down. Lingard is the perfect example of this. Build up as a homegrown hero, given 200k a week and then barely good enough to get into the side.

Cannot be sold as he won't lower his wage demands, and the club management won't let him leave for a lower fee to compensate.

In the future I hope we can finally get these decisions correct. Under Rangnick and the new manager we need to rebuild properly, but I think we need to completely demolish what we have to be able to move forward.
 

Lentwood

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The first 12 months under OIe were the perfect template for how to move forward. We sold overpaid, unnecessary players and bought in young, hungry players with something to prove.

We then quickly fell back into bad habits, renewing ridiculous contracts (Juan Mata) and clinging on to players unnecessarily (Pereira, Matic, Lingard etc...)

Then, before too long, we went right back to square one and tried to take a shortcut to success by bringing in 'names' on huge wages (Ronaldo, Varane, arguably Sancho)

In order to move forward, we need to swallow our pride and take some short-term pain. My drastic bullet-point plan would be...

* Offer a reduced weekly wage to every player who earns more than Harry Maguire as club captain, which is 190K. If they refuse, they are gone. Whether that's Rashford, Sancho or Ronaldo, who cares, it needs to be done. The captain should be the highest earner, regardless of who we feel the best players might be.

* Get rid of every player over 30. Purely because by the time we are actually in a position to challenge again, they will be 34/35 anyway at best. Pointless having the likes of Mata and Matic kicking about to put the cones out.

* Get rid of the likes of Williams and Pereira. Sell Bailly and Jones. Players who get injured four times a season are no use, regardless of respective abilities. Get rid whilst they have value.

* I am more than happy to keep the rest because their wages are proportionate and they seem to have the right attitude. So that leaves me (probably) with senior players of Henderson, Dalot, AWB, Shaw, Telles, Maguire, Tuanzebe, Lindelof, McTominay, Fred, DvB, Lingard, Rashford (assuming he would take a £10K per week pay-cut) and Greenwood

* Bring back the likes of Garner and Laird. Henderson now starts in goal. Bring Menghi into the fold, along with Hannibal Mejbri, Anthony Elanga, Amad and potentially Shoretire.

Moving forward, I would have a few golden rules about who we sign and who can earn what, but very simply, no player can earn more than the captain, and long-serving players earn more than new signings. Basically, I don't care who you think you are or what you think you achieved elsewhere, until you have done it for United and/or given your years of loyalty/service, you have to earn the big salaries.

I would also have a policy of making much cheaper signings and buying players who still have something to prove. So what if that means we have a slightly higher turnover of players initially, it wouldn't bother me. We have Scouts all over the world and more resources than most, I'd rather us be the club that takes calculated gambles on £20/30m players who are 18-22 than this ridiculous mess which pays big money for players who nearly always underwhelm

The one thing we can't EVER do is try to take a shortcut or deviate from our principles. If it takes 5YRs to challenge again, so be it. If someone now offered 5YRs from 2014, we would have snapped their hands off.
 
Last edited:

anant

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
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We have a bloated squad, but there's still quality in there - so it's not in need of a multi-year rebuild. All we need to do is trim the side down and sign a RB (depending on how we rate Laird), DM and maybe a ST and a backup CB and we're fine. In a way, if we don't start running after stupid targets, we could have a great side by start of next season itself
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
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@Lentwood

Agree with most points.

We once had a team that would fight for every ball and would be distraught to let in just 1 goal, those basics seem to have disappeared.

We definitely over keep players. People laugh at Chelsea for their manager/player turn over, but they've laid their expectations out now. You do good work or you're gone.

We are seen as a soft touch by everybody.
 

Gordon Godot

New Member
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Feb 19, 2016
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1,374
@Lentwood

Agree with most points.

We once had a team that would fight for every ball and would be distraught to let in just 1 goal, those basics seem to have disappeared.

We definitely over keep players. People laugh at Chelsea for their manager/player turn over, but they've laid their expectations out now. You do good work or you're gone.

We are seen as a soft touch by everybody.
The problem is 'Ed 'useless' Woodward. He is a joke amongst other club management and agents.
 

pocco

loco
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Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
Agree with the OP. The first phase of this 'rebuild' though should be to weed out the bad apples and the players with poor attitude. If they don't have it in them to get motivated to drag us through a tough period, then they don't have the right attitude to play for this club.

I'm setting the bar relatively low here, talking about having the right character to just jump the first hurdles as a professional footballer...work hard, play with courage and give it everything. I'm not even talking about having the right mentality to win titles. If we measured our players against that standard then I think we'd be left with 3 or 4 players at the most.
 

KiD MoYeS

Good Craig got his c'nuppins
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My hope is that the Glazers take a space trip on Bezos rocket and they somehow get pulled into the Sun.
 

Big Ben Foster

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
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IMO except in rare circumstances, we should consider bringing back the one-year rule for over-30 contract renewals.
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
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"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
@Lentwood

Agree with most points.

We once had a team that would fight for every ball and would be distraught to let in just 1 goal, those basics seem to have disappeared.

We definitely over keep players. People laugh at Chelsea for their manager/player turn over, but they've laid their expectations out now. You do good work or you're gone.

We are seen as a soft touch by everybody.
I think this sort or nostalgia needs to be toned down a bit. That might have applied to the players in our great teams at their peak but there were a lot of similar criticisms being aimed at those exact same players before the final piece of the jigsaw was being added to those great teams. In a dysfunctional team, good players look bad and that’s not necessarily down to some wilful lowering of standards across the board. Sometimes minor tweaks can make a massive difference.

I remember our squad (and Fergie) being crucified after being left in the slip-stream of Mourinho’s Chelsea in 04/05 and 05/06. Then when we smashed Fulham in the 06/07 season opener it came as a complete surprise, following a summer where everyone thought our rivals had all outdone us in the transfer market. This wasn’t down to some overnight change in the standards of the club.