The Disappearing Men at Newcastle

[The Mitcher]

I was in the players you forgot about thread when one of the posters there mentioned a Newcastle player called Saivet, a midfielder. Bought in 2016 by Steve McClaren from Bordeaux for £5 million on a five an a half year deal. He only made six appearances and has been on loan for most of this time. I then went down the rabbit hole and discovered this fan website for Newcastle discussing him. Turns out he's not the only one, and that there have been loads of players.

https://true-faith.co.uk/henri-saivet-and-the-disappearing-men-of-newcastle-united/

The article (spelling errors aside) mentions it's a strategy that Mike Ashley has adopted to make a profit, mimicking what he does in his retail brands. The names that the guy mentions like Xisco, are even more obscure than Saivet ever was. What's also interesting is the professionalism that these players have exhibted. So, essentially Newcastle can't progress because they buy players on the cheap in the hopes they develop so they can be flogged for a higher price. Cabaye being a notable example going to PSG for £20 million. This strategy has worked in the past for teams like Southampton and even bigger teams like Spurs and Dortmund. But it seems that eventually it comes back to haunt them as they can't progress and keep their good players. Swansea and Wigan ended up relegated as a result of that.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ali Dia]

Saviet was a FM legend at one point.

 

[yumtum]

Yeah I mentioned him, funnily enough Javier Manquillo is on their books too! Ex Liverpool loanee.

 

[The Mitcher]

Saviet was a FM legend at one point.

It's always the legends!

Yeah I mentioned him, funnily enough Javier Manquillo is on their books too! Ex Liverpool loanee.

Manquillo, jesus. On FM he always became a journeyman.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Saviet was a FM legend at one point.

When I used to watch a lot of Summer youth tournaments I remember being impressed by him with France at U17 level. I kept an eye out on him when he broke into the Bordeaux first team and established himself with them.

I was disappointed it didn't work out with him at Newcastle as there's been plenty I've followed from youth levels - some make it to the top, some don't - but it's always nice when you track a players career from youth levels and they go on to make it big.

 

[Counterfactual]

> it's a strategy that Mike Ashley has adopted to make a profit, mimicking what he does in his retail brands.

I don't get it. You're not going to flip these players for a profit if they don't play. If you buy them but don't play them, 1: you don't benefit on the pitch, 2: you won't sell them on for a profit, so you'll make a loss considering the transfer fee and wages paid. I must be missing something. If you buy them because you think they're decent, play them and they get better, then sell them and cash in, you're a feeder club, like 99% of clubs out there.

 

[yumtum]

It's always the legends!


Manquillo, jesus. On FM he always became a journeyman.

He's the same age as Lindelöf too - thought he was much older.

 

[Nick7]

I genuinely thought Saivet would become the best player in the world due to how fecking good he was in FM. Remy Cabella was another FM legend for me that they signed for cheap.

but yeah on topic, look at Thauvin. Newcastle bought him as a fairly cheapish young player with a ton of upside. But he was shite for them so they sold him back to Marseille for less than Newcastle bought him for. Eventually developed into a decent player and has been linked to big money moves in the last couple of windows.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm probably missing something here but Saivet and Cabaye weren't obscure players and Newcastle developed neither of them. Cabaye was a starter for Lille and played in the CL before joining Newcastle. Saivet was a wonderkid striker who could score at professional level and was given way too many opportunities at Bordeaux who are one of the historical french clubs.

 

[The Mitcher]

He's the same age as Lindelöf too - thought he was much older.

Twenty-five is it?

 

[V.O.]

The article (spelling errors aside) mentions it's a strategy that Mike Ashley has adopted to make a profit, mimicking what he does in his retail brands. The names that the guy mentions like Xisco, are even more obscure than Saivet ever was. What's also interesting is the professionalism that these players have exhibted.

Any thoughts?

I only have one memory of him, and that's of our away fans getting a "Let's all laugh at Xisco" chant going when the barcodes were subbing him on once.

 

[The Mitcher]

I'm probably missing something here but Saivet and Cabaye weren't obscure players and Newcastle developed neither of them. Cabaye was a starter for Lille and played in the CL before joining Newcastle. Saivet was a wonderkid striker who could score at professional level and was given way too many opportunities at Bordeaux who are one of the historical french clubs.

Not obscure in France, but in England they were considered obscure. Also, the idea was they would continue to develop at NUFC and then be sold when they reach their peak.

 

[The Mitcher]

I only have one memory of him, and that's of our away fans getting a "Let's all laugh at Xisco" chant going when the barcodes were subbing him on once.

 

[JPRouve]

Not obscure in France, but in England they were considered obscure. Also, the idea was they would continue to develop at NUFC and then be sold when they reach their peak.

Which is quite worrying because Cabaye was a french international and playing CL football. That would insinuate that in England people know nothing about what is going on abroad.

 

[The Mitcher]

Which is quite worrying because Cabaye was a french international and playing CL football. That would insinuate that in England people know nothing about what is going on abroad.

Just because one plays CL football doesn't mean you're well known in every country in Europe. How many players from Ludogrets when they played in the CL against United a few years back were well known?

 

[Ali Dia]

When I used to watch a lot of Summer youth tournaments I remember being impressed by him with France at U17 level. I kept an eye out on him when he broke into the Bordeaux first team and established himself with them.

I was disappointed it didn't work out with him at Newcastle as there's been plenty I've followed from youth levels - some make it to the top, some don't - but it's always nice when you track a players career from youth levels and they go on to make it big.

I remember searching him out back in the day and he was rapid, playing on the wings. It’s always interesting to look at these old 50 best young players in the world lists too. The future best players are nearly always on there but a lot of the time it’s just impossible to call which of those players will really make it or how far a player can go based solely on youth football or a few sub appearances. The jump up to regular senior is tricky. Remember how good Chong Periera and Adnan all looked at u23? Starters for lower to mid PL club at best really. There are so many factors that have to align for these lads to get enough game time to develop at a big club.

 

[JPRouve]

Just because one plays CL football doesn't mean you're well known in every country in Europe. How many players from Ludogrets when they played in the CL against United a few years back were well known?

Of course but we are talking about a player that in theory shouldn't be considered obscure and the fact that you did is interesting. I mean we are talking about a french international who was one of the best players after Hazard for Lille. It would be very surprising that people watched and knew about Hazard but not about Gervinho, Cabaye or Mavuba. Surely I can be surprised?

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I remember searching him out back in the day and he was rapid, playing on the wings. It’s always interesting to look at these old 50 best young players in the world lists too. The future best players are nearly always on there but a lot of the time it’s just impossible to call which of those players will really make it or how far a player can go based solely on youth football or a few sub appearances. The jump up to regular senior is tricky. Remember how good Chong Periera and Adnan all looked at u23? Starters for lower to mid PL club at best really. There are so many factors that have to align for these lads to get enough game time to develop at a big club.

Yeah, it's really difficult.
I remember seeing Eden Hazard for Belgium U17's and being really impressed and following him at Lille and being desperate for us to sign him and gutted when Chelsea did.

But then there was a Ghana U17 right back - Daniel Opare - who looked amazing and subsequently joined Real Madrid but didn't make it there and has only been a journeyman.

I remember Tim Vickery saying he's now learned not to get too excited by U17 level as it's so inconsistent whether good players at that level make it and, at international level, the U20's are a more reliable way to judge.

 

[Ali Dia]

Yeah, it's really difficult.
I remember seeing Eden Hazard for Belgium U17's and being really impressed and following him at Lille and being desperate for us to sign him and gutted when Chelsea did.

But then there was a Ghana U17 right back - Daniel Opare - who looked amazing and subsequently joined Real Madrid but didn't make it there and has only been a journeyman.

I remember Tim Vickery saying he's now learned not to get too excited by U17 level as it's so inconsistent whether good players at that level make it and, at international level, the U20's are a more reliable way to judge.

I’m looking forward to seeing how Moises Caciedo settles in next season. Vickery was shouting it from the rooftops that this guy is potentially top class. He looks a serious prospect but it sounds like he’s been quite poor at Brighton u23s so far. I’d say next year he’s gotta play first team somewhere. With his reputation I doubt he’ll be sitting in their u23s too long either way. It will be interesting to watch him develop. He was cheap too!

 

[Tottenhamguy]

Siem de Jong was another player who disappeared. Came from Ajax highly rated and made about 26 appearances over two seasons.

 

[JPRouve]

Siem de Jong was another player who disappeared. Came from Ajax highly rated and made about 26 appearances over two seasons.

That reminded me Vuckic, he was supposed to be a big talent but totally disappeared.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Cabaye is definitely not the best example. I remember him being pretty good at Newcastle.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Cabaye is definitely not the best example. I remember him being pretty good at Newcastle.

I thought that was the OP's point regarding Cabaye. That he was the best example of it working.

Moussa Sissoko was another for a while. He's got loads of ability but doesn't always seem up for it. When he is, he looks brilliant.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I thought that was the OP's point regarding Cabaye. That he was the best example of it working.

Moussa Sissoko was another for a while. He's got loads of ability but doesn't always seem up for it. When he is, he looks brilliant.

Fair enough. That's what I get for skimming through the OP and reading only the replies.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I was in the players you forgot about thread when one of the posters there mentioned a Newcastle player called Saivet, a midfielder. Bought in 2016 by Steve McClaren from Bordeaux for £5 million on a five an a half year deal. He only made six appearances and has been on loan for most of this time. I then went down the rabbit hole and discovered this fan website for Newcastle discussing him. Turns out he's not the only one, and that there have been loads of players.

https://true-faith.co.uk/henri-saivet-and-the-disappearing-men-of-newcastle-united/

The article (spelling errors aside) mentions it's a strategy that Mike Ashley has adopted to make a profit, mimicking what he does in his retail brands. The names that the guy mentions like Xisco, are even more obscure than Saivet ever was. What's also interesting is the professionalism that these players have exhibted. So, essentially Newcastle can't progress because they buy players on the cheap in the hopes they develop so they can be flogged for a higher price. Cabaye being a notable example going to PSG for £20 million. This strategy has worked in the past for teams like Southampton and even bigger teams like Spurs and Dortmund. But it seems that eventually it comes back to haunt them as they can't progress and keep their good players. Swansea and Wigan ended up relegated as a result of that.

Any thoughts?

TBF to Ashley (unpopular sentiment I know), that's all British owners can really do at a PL club. They can't compete with the money coming in from US, Russia, Middle East. So that automatically drops them down to below top 8 most seasons.

So running the club like Southampton, Spurs, Brentford, Dortmund, Celtic is the right approach. No system will work for every club, so maybe Newcastle have failed in their attempts to do it successfully. But the approach was the right thing imo. They've spent decent money for British owned standards, and employed some decent managers, so a lot of the thinking was along the right lines - it's just not worked for them as well as for some.

But if they get new British owners then they'll have to try to do similar as well. It's only if they get foreign billionaire owners that they can hope to splash out huge cash and try to break into the top 6 or 8 on a regular basis.

 

[Jezpeza]

I read somewhere once theres a business strategy to it. Like look at some of the ‘prospects’ chelsea have out on loan. Lucas piazon was on loan forever. Malang sarr is the latest example, Apparantly the tactic is to sign the player on a nominal/free/from academy and then loan them out for years and years which generates profit in either sell on fees or loan fees

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

 

[V.O.]