The disrespect of Nemanja Matic

rollingstoned1

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If you read my post you'll see that he did this each season. It's another facet to his game that separates him from Carrick.
you say this like matic was some prolific goalscorer. or that carrick himself wasn't capable of the odd screamer. look up the goal against Roma in '07.
 

MattofManchester

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Me now being entirely suspicious that Woodward has made him sign a 3 year deal so he doesn't have to look in the market for another DM.

Oh no, look what I have become.
 

sincher

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Interesting how McTominay just couldn't seem to get in the right positions against Palace and Matic immediately did when he came on.
 

always_hoping

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His form last season and the first half of this was dreadful. He looked done at this level. Credit where credit is due as now and since project restart he's been arguably Uniteds best player and long may that current form continue.
 

Reiver

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He's been great lately but it's fair to say he went through a very sticky patch during which many of us had doubts about him and would have been happy for him to be moved on. This was not disrespect but a fair reflection on what we were seeing. He's since proved his importance and I'm glad he has. It's not disrespect to call out a player when they are underperforming.
 

United58

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He was dire for quite a long period, but proved a lot of us (myself included) wrong when we said he should be moved on. What a turn around for an older player; obviously into his 30s he will begin to permanently decline soon, but he's fantastic for now and will be key to our top 4/trophy hopes in the coming month
 

Caesar2290

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Reminds of Carrick at a similar age.

People were writing him of as well, but he managed to reinvent himself and carry our midfield well into his 30's. Here's hoping Matic can do a similar thing for us.

Also social media ruined things. If a player doesn't put in at least 9/10 performance every single week, suddenly we need to upgrade him. After every match stats are shared and every action is scrutinised into oblivion. Aside from Matic, really consistent performers have also been deemed "not good enough". I'm talking about Vic, Shaw and now James can be added the same category.

Just imagine the what people would have written about Silvestre, Brown, O'Shea or Heinze.

Football is a team sport guys. Even though it's a top performance environment, it's important to remember that there are top performers amongst top performers. This is why man management and rotation is a must for any top manager out there.
 

Stacks

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what kind of stat is that? You may as well include the keeper as he touched the ball at one point before a goal. If this is key passes or assisting the "assister" then fair enough

otherwise than that it is a useless stat that just shows a player has passed the ball to a teammate at some point before a goal happened...........
 

M Bison

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I've never been a fan of the assist stat, seems a bit meaningless in a lot of cases (not always) but "build-up" takes it to a new level.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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If he can give 30-35 games next season and Fred can fill up the remaining 20-25 starts, the position should be fine. This is not the financial climate to look for future cover when there are more gaping holes elsewhere to fill.
 

Siorac

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If he can give 30-35 games next season and Fred can fill up the remaining 20-25 starts, the position should be fine. This is not the financial climate to look for future cover when there are more gaping holes elsewhere to fill.
If we finally get an RW (Sancho, hopefully) then this is the gapingest (yes that's a word now, deal with it) of gaping holes. Matic is a decent player but upgrading him would massively elevate the team.
 

Nickelodeon

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I read this report on the Athletic. It was actually about Bruno but the stat about Matic is also what caught my eye.

To the people who are disregarding this stat as meaningless, you need to realize what it actually means rather than dismissing it off-hand. Remember the goal scored by Bruno on the counter against Brighton, it was Matic's brilliant volleyed pass that sent Greenwood on his way to cross for Bruno to finish. Similarly, against Southampton in the first United goal, Pogba made a brilliant fizzed ball to Martial who controlled well to feed Rashford to finish. The midfielder is actually the one in both cases who made the initiating pass which started the move and despite not getting a goal or assist, they deserve to recognized for it.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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If we finally get an RW (Sancho, hopefully) then this is the gapingest (yes that's a word now, deal with it) of gaping holes. Matic is a decent player but upgrading him would massively elevate the team.
I think a back up creative midfielder is a bigger concern. Finding a like for like replacement for Matic is quite hard, just like it was hard to find one for Carrick as such players who are defensively astute while being adept on the ball aren't easy to find anymore.
 

simplyared

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Nothing wrong with these stats. It's exactly as I see it. Matic is involved in going-forward combinations much more than people on here give him credit for. He plays with intent and responsibility. People say he dwells on the ball bla bla. What he's doing is looking to make a pass that will lead to something. He's the opposite to Fred who's main goal seems to be to get rid and play the ball asap to a teammate for them to take responsibility. Unlike Matic he plays without intent and therefore achieves very little.
 
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Siorac

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I think a back up creative midfielder is a bigger concern. Finding a like for like replacement for Matic is quite hard, just like it was hard to find one for Carrick as such players who are defensively astute while being adept on the ball aren't easy to find anymore.
Strengthening the first team is more important than any backups and that Matic-Lindelöf-Maguire centre just doesn't fill me with any confidence. I'm not exactly up to date on the current midfield prospects in world football but if we want to go toe-to-toe with the best teams any time soon, we must upgrade on Matic.
 

PieCrust

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Matic, again, is ok. But he's still too slow, both with his pace & acceleration and his decision making when on the ball. He also severly drops off when played too much. We really need to get a new starting DM in. I don't rate McT nor Fred as a DM.
 

Devil may care

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If we finally get an RW (Sancho, hopefully) then this is the gapingest (yes that's a word now, deal with it) of gaping holes. Matic is a decent player but upgrading him would massively elevate the team.
Exactly, I don't get how people can't see how big of an issue this is.

I think a back up creative midfielder is a bigger concern. Finding a like for like replacement for Matic is quite hard, just like it was hard to find one for Carrick as such players who are defensively astute while being adept on the ball aren't easy to find anymore.
A back up #10 basically, If we get Sancho he can play there if Bruno is out, we only have Matic that actually knows how to play the holding role and hasn't got the stamina for a season, he's shagged out after 5 decent games, plus with Pogba and Bruno in there the job needs someone with more pace and mobility to cover the gaps left by 2 such attacking players.
 

acnumber9

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what kind of stat is that? You may as well include the keeper as he touched the ball at one point before a goal. If this is key passes or assisting the "assister" then fair enough

otherwise than that it is a useless stat that just shows a player has passed the ball to a teammate at some point before a goal happened...........
Most stats are useless bar the one regarding putting the ball in the net. An assist stat is no different when a player can get one for a two yard pass to a player who rockets one in from 30 yards.
 

Beachryan

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In the right conditions he's a superb player, but those conditions feel increasingly rare in the premier league.

When we're massively on top, and his role is primarily providing an outlet for the attack to quickly recirculate possession, he's genuinely fantastic. Really underrated passer, particularly between the lines. But only if he's given all the time in the world.

Problem is that he's slow, not actually a defensive player and when we're not controlling possession he's not great.

Just because he plays where Carrick played, doesn't mean he's that similar. Carrick for me was one of the very best in the game at reading play, positioning and dropping into the back 4 when needed. Matic is simply a more attacking player, he's never been a defensive shield and really isn't very good at it. He frequently loses midfielders running past him, doesn't provide a screen on the edge of our box and despite his height isn't particularly good at defending aerial threats in our box.

Still feel this is our most crucial upgrade: if we could get a truly defensive player to hold that base, we'd get a lot more from Pogba and Fernandes.
 

GazTheLegend

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In the right conditions he's a superb player, but those conditions feel increasingly rare in the premier league.

When we're massively on top, and his role is primarily providing an outlet for the attack to quickly recirculate possession, he's genuinely fantastic. Really underrated passer, particularly between the lines. But only if he's given all the time in the world.

Problem is that he's slow, not actually a defensive player and when we're not controlling possession he's not great.

Just because he plays where Carrick played, doesn't mean he's that similar. Carrick for me was one of the very best in the game at reading play, positioning and dropping into the back 4 when needed. Matic is simply a more attacking player, he's never been a defensive shield and really isn't very good at it. He frequently loses midfielders running past him, doesn't provide a screen on the edge of our box and despite his height isn't particularly good at defending aerial threats in our box.

Still feel this is our most crucial upgrade: if we could get a truly defensive player to hold that base, we'd get a lot more from Pogba and Fernandes.
I feel the exact same way

The only thing I might add is that Matic seems to be fantastic if we have one game a week - I personally think he just struggles once the games come every three days, although he does run a lot in games statistically.
 

PoTMS

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Good player who has last his legs so giving him a three-year year contract is bizarre to say the least. It's not exactly like there's a load of teams vying for his signature.
 

el3mel

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He is a great play and character to have. We just need to manage his game time that's all. He can't play every league. In some games it's better to rest him for Scott and Fred. In others he is necessary to be present. His composure, passing ability, and physicailty are of great help in many matches.
 

Red Company

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what kind of stat is that? You may as well include the keeper as he touched the ball at one point before a goal. If this is key passes or assisting the "assister" then fair enough

otherwise than that it is a useless stat that just shows a player has passed the ball to a teammate at some point before a goal happened...........
If these stats were meaningless then KdB wouldn’t seem as crucial as he actually is..

Midfielders aren’t only judged by their goals and assists. It’s the situations they create that lead to goals.

Sure goalkeepers also initiate goal scoring opportunities and they should be mentioned when they do. But to say they also touched the ball before a goal happened is irrelevant.
 

Luke1995

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Curious to see what his impact will be in the champions league. The pace of european games seems more suited to his style. A bit like Veron back in the day, where he would kinda of struggle in the PL but have brilliant games in europe.
 

el3mel

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Curious to see what his impact will be in the champions league. The pace of european games seems more suited to his style. A bit like Veron back in the day, where he would kinda of struggle in the PL but have brilliant games in europe.
Matic is a 2 times PL winner, an overall very experienced PL player so I'm not sure about the comparison with Veron.

He's just getting old and can't play every game that's all. Needs game time management.
 

georgipep

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Interesting how McTominay just couldn't seem to get in the right positions against Palace and Matic immediately did when he came on.
It's as almost like one has many years more experience than the other and puts it to good use. The hope is that McT will learn with time. Very, very few players have the calmness and positional awareness of Matić, and even fewer have his physical and technical attributes to apply on top.
 

Foxbatt

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That pass he made to Rashford against Leicester was world class. He took the ball from defence and strolled past the midfield and cut open the defense and Rashford was thru.
I have slated him a lot in the past. I have to say that I am happy to be wrong.
If Matic plays well, United play well. I still think our team would be better if we replace Pogba and get a better combination to play with Bruno and Matic.
 

Foxbatt

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No doubt there. I'm just not sure a "involved" in the build up stat, without defining its meaning, can used to draw any conclusions.
True. Player A can do all the hard work, player B squares the ball only and player C scores. The stats show that player B was the one who did the assist. But it was player A who maybe dribbled past 4 to 5 players and gave the ball to player B who just had to pass to player C to score.
This is what stats would show without the build up. That's why stats would never show the true pic when taken on its own.
 

Samid

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Is this the key pass (assisting the assist) stat or an assist to the key pass before an assist stat? :confused:
I don't think a key pass is assisting the assister but any pass that directly leads to an attempt at goal.
 

Ish

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True. Player A can do all the hard work, player B squares the ball only and player C scores. The stats show that player B was the one who did the assist. But it was player A who maybe dribbled past 4 to 5 players and gave the ball to player B who just had to pass to player C to score.
This is what stats would show without the build up. That's why stats would never show the true pic when taken on its own.
Agreed with that bud.
I don't think a key pass is assisting the assister but any pass that directly leads to an attempt at goal.
Aargh, that makes sense. For interest sake, is there an "assist the assistor" stat?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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In the right conditions he's a superb player, but those conditions feel increasingly rare in the premier league.

When we're massively on top, and his role is primarily providing an outlet for the attack to quickly recirculate possession, he's genuinely fantastic. Really underrated passer, particularly between the lines. But only if he's given all the time in the world.

Problem is that he's slow, not actually a defensive player and when we're not controlling possession he's not great.

Just because he plays where Carrick played, doesn't mean he's that similar. Carrick for me was one of the very best in the game at reading play, positioning and dropping into the back 4 when needed. Matic is simply a more attacking player, he's never been a defensive shield and really isn't very good at it. He frequently loses midfielders running past him, doesn't provide a screen on the edge of our box and despite his height isn't particularly good at defending aerial threats in our box.

Still feel this is our most crucial upgrade: if we could get a truly defensive player to hold that base, we'd get a lot more from Pogba and Fernandes.
The credit people gave on Matic recently has been way over the top. It's like they never watch Carrick before.
 

SoCross

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The credit people gave on Matic recently has been way over the top. It's like they never watch Carrick before.
More like a disrespect for Carrick thread at times!

I like Matic. Can see the logic behind extending his stay, hopefully Garner will slowly replace him.