The Double Draft - R1: Joga vs Invictus

[Invictus]

Brazil – a nation of prodigal footballing talent. From the great Pele, to the current pretender to his crown – Neymar; the South American country is full of great players, or at least fans who seem to think that the boys they see, all of 15, running out to score hat-tricks and play with confidence and skill to be the ‘Next Pele’

However, since the glory days of O Rei and El Fenomeno, no one has quite captured our imaginations. No one that is, apart from one weird tall guy from Gremio, with buck teeth and some outrageous ball control. Yes, you guessed right. I’m talking about Ronaldo de Assis Moreira, better known to you and me as Ronaldinho Gaucho.


From an early age in Porto Alegre, Ronaldinho was a great trickster. His friends knew playing against him was only fun if he didn’t turn up because he had such spectacular ball control and such an amazing vision and range of passing. Coupled with his near-6 foot height and searing pace, Gaucho was a future star.

He went from playing at Gremio to a 5 million euro transfer to Paris St.Germain in virtually no time. One of Europe’s lower rung sides had seen his potential. He played well in his two seasons at the Parisiens, and impressed many. In particular a lot of sides in the Spanish first division.

The story of Ronaldinho arriving at FC Barcelona is a tale of deceit and was weird, to say the least, for us fans. In 2003, with Joan Laporta almost becoming president, he confirmed the signing of David Beckham – one of football’s great poster boys – to ensure his campaign was the one that won through. Once installed however, Beckham moved to arch-rivals Real Madrid. Fans everywhere felt betrayed and hence the hubbub and noise surrounding the arrival of Ronaldinho was much more subdued.

In his first season at the Catalan giants though, Gaucho showed why he was the better player. A master trickster, along with the likes of Deco, Gio Van Bronckhorst, Samu Eto’o and Puyol he lead the club to a 2nd place finish in his debut year and largely inspired Barca to the title in 2004-05. September 2005 saw him winning the FIFPro World Player of the Year award among many other accolades in a near-perfect season.


But all these are just statistics, because the memory of Ronaldinho is so much more. The very presence of the man on the pitch made defenders moan and sigh in sadness. They didn’t have an answer to his devilish trickery, just as his friends didn’t when he was a child in Porto Alegre.

From an audience of a few to an audience of a few billion, Ronaldinho had come far and had smiled all the way. With his chips, outside-of-the-boot passes and amazing dribbling abilities keeping the likes of Xavi and Andres Iniesta out of the Barca set-up. Ronaldinho helped shove Barca into the 21stcentury and the team was built around him. A team so brilliant, with a man so amiable at its center that when Barca demolished their arch-rivals 3-0 at the Santiago Bernabeu, Ronaldinho got a rapturous standing ovation from the Madrid faithful.

Such was his guile and his finesse, such was his brilliance that even opposing fans couldn’t help but marvel at the man in the red and blue where white was worn with a symbolic pride and hatred for all things Barca.



Ronaldinho Gaucho – he may not have won as many trophies or scored as many goals as O Rei, but he did touch my heart and the hearts of millions of others. He inspired a generation to be and to think freely and to do, not just contemplate.

Ronaldinho Gaucho – a legend in every sense.

 

[Invictus]

Obdulio Jacinto Varela – “El Negro Jefe” (Peñarol, 1953-54)

The man who silenced the Maracanã before Schiaffino made it tremble and Ghiggia reduced it to tears. You’ve heard it all before: beastly midfielder, dominant, capable of executing the most influential and game-defining World Cup Final individual performance. He could sit and protect the defence, passing the ball short and long to good effect, or operate as a box-to-box midfielder with a thunderous long range cannon of a right peg.

You’ve also read my ranting about him being at his b est surrounded by his own, players with shared histories, identities, philosophies, idiosyncracies… There was a massive dimension to him as a player and captain which requires this, place him in a ragged band of superstars and his impact would be hugely diminished. I stand by that (and you’ll probably “get it” from the rest of this post), which is why I want him at the heart of this “Gianni Brera mind blown best of Italy and Uruguay” composite.

What you probably haven’t read about is how he raised that late 40s side as captain, and how he saw it out, saw the Death Squad disband, and the key players he groomed leave… and stooped and started again with worn out tools. No, he didn’t play much beyond them, but he carried on until he knew it was all on track with William Martínez arriving to captain the side for the next seven years. Once his legs went, he stayed on as coach/advisor/whatever it was until the giant hole he had left in midfield had been filled satisfactorily by someone equally capable of demanding order and total commitment in the midfield, the backline behind it, and the forwards ahead.

Peñarol’s training ground “Las Acacias” was his home for over a decade. In particular, there was one tree where he held court with each and every player, always individually, and paying particular attention to the youth prospects. He imposed respect -not fear- among his teammates, although everyone hoped he would arrive whistling a tune as an indication he was in a good mood that day. He imparted wisdom, never raised his voice or needed to speak out of turn. He kept quiet most of the time, listening, observing, and when he made the slightest motion indicating he was about to speak everyone would shut up and stay expectant to what would be no doubt a lesson worth learning. He had the power of synthesis (I sure don’t!), the ability to dissect a game and occasion and home in on what was wrong, what was the root cause, with laser precision. And then he acted and directed on his insights, expertly.

The arrival of Ghiggia and Hohberg was the inception of the Death Squad. In 1949, they averaged four goals a game while conceding one: 5-0, 5-2, 3-0, 3-1, 6-1, 6-0 and 5-3 was their form sheet prior to the derby against Nacional. The day before it, he dedicated an entire hour to each of them individually, to make sure he got into their heads what it meant to play a derby, what it meant to wear those colours on such a stage.

Hohberg tells us more about his one-to-one:

OJV: I know you boys have been pummeling the smaller teams, people are excited… but this is different.

JEH: I know, it’s a big game.

OJV: Yes, but also big players. You know who is marking you tomorrow?

JEH: “El Cato” Tejera [1950 WC winner]

OJV: And you know what he will do, right?

JEH: He will kick me all game.

OJV: No, he won’t. He will test you. He will try to get under your skin, in your head, losing focus, and if he succeeds he won’t need to kick you all that much. You will have a poor game anyway, and if you have a poor game it will be hard for Ghiggia not to [since they were inside right and outside right respectively]. That’s half the battle won for them.

JEH: I understand, don’t worry.

OJV: This is what will happen. In the first five minutes of the game, as soon as he gets an opportunity he will play a dirty trick on you. You will take it, you won’t complain, you won’t shout anything at him or cry like a baby to the ref, or point fingers at him. You’ll just stand up and keep going.

JEH: Yes, Sir.

OJV: The next time I get the ball, I’ll play it in between you two. 50-50. And you know what you will do?

JEH: Yes, I know

For the record, it didn’t mean breaking his leg or anything, it meant going for that ball with complete abandon and showing no amount of dirty tricks were going to subdue him. That he could give as good as he got and the occasion didn’t get to him.

The next day, there’s a corner two minutes into the game and Hohberg suddenly feels a searing pain which makes him arch forth and fall on his side gasping for air. Tejera had elbowed him. No complaints.

A few minutes later Obdulio gets the ball, looks ahead, sees Hohberg alert and moving to make the space for him to pass into, nods his head knowingly and places it bang in the middle. Crunching tackle, and Tejera had got his message: he couldn’t make the connection break down, which was probably the easy win game-plan he had dwelled on all week. Soon after Ghiggia scored, and five minutes before half time Tejera brought down Hohberg in the box: penalty. Tejera loses the plot screaming bloody murder at the ref and gets sent off. The penalty is taken by Míguez, saved, but Vidal scores from the rebound. Nacional players are by now all over the place. They know they are completely dominated and destined to lose by a basketball score. They surround the ref, the centre-forward kicks him and is also sent off…

Nacional never came back for the second half. There have been big scorelines through history, but the shame of running away from the stadium to avoid humiliation will forever hang on their heads. And it all started and the game was won in the course of a one hour chat under an acacia tree.

 

[Invictus]

More on Varela, and why he will be a real difference maker in the game. Credit @antohan for both.

BRAZILIAN KRYPTONITE​

The main Brazilian newspaper had the main page and backpage printed as a poster on the morning of the game. "Congratulations Champions!", showing the Brazil team photo.

Varela went to buy as many papers as he could find, made sure every one of his teammates had seen them, then took them into a room, lay them on the floor, and invited them to piss on them

Before the game started there were massive ceremonies, the Major of Rio made a speech, also congratulating the Champions and going on about the fabulous stadium he had built for that very special occasion. The Brazilian players didn't find it odd, didn't feel the pressure yet, they had shat on everyone along the way anyway. Meanwhile, Varela just stood there listening.

Soon after the game started, Bigode (their left back) fouls Ghiggia (our right winger). Next time Bigode gets the ball Varela goes in like a bulldozer and knocks him off the pitch, stands on top of him pointing his finger Keano-style and tells him in inequivocal terms: "You don´t touch the little fella or I'll wipe you out. Clear?". Ghiggia was given the freedom of the flank, assisted our first goal and scored the second.

Obdulio and Ghiggia after the final whistle

Then the goal came, the complaints about a non-existent offside. The English referee not understanding a word and calling for the interpreter... Next thing you knew the Brazilians were not exuberant, but worried it would be disallowed.

Halfway through the second half, Jules Rimet exits his seat and goes to prepare himself for the ceremony. He finds "1950 - Brazil" had been carved into it in advance but didn't think much of it. The stadium had gone silent, but he was too busy rehearsing his speech...

Then out he came to find a dead stadium, confusion all around, and in a crowd of people the giant "Black Chief" emerges, grabs the trophy and leaves him standing there, as confused as everyone else. Later on, back in his senses, his conclusion would be: "they were born to be Champions".

Four years later, Uruguay's World Cup undefeated run would come to an end. In the semifinal, in extra-time, after a 2-2 draw in normal time against Hungary. Varela had got injured in the 4-2 quarter against England. Had he been available... We will never know.

 

[Raees]

Agree on those three but I would absolutely add Rivera to that list - he's not really shackled at all and he unquestionably has the ability to make the difference. In my opinion Rivera is the best pure passer on the park (Zico the better dribbler and goalscorer).

I personally love Carrick and in terms of his ball playing ability he isn't overly outclassed here (despite it being an all-time draft), but defensively I don't think he has ever shown the ability or tenacity needed to cut out someone like Rivera.

I would also add Luigi Riva - there is a clear chasm between the credentials of the two strikers in the match and I think Riva will pose real problems for Joga's back two, particularly when McGrath gets dragged over to deal with that Ronaldinho/Brehme flank.

In contrast I can't see Griezmann posing any real problems for Nesta. It's not the optimal set up for Griezmann really who always looks better behind a proper #9 and doesn't pose the same threat on the shoulder.

Carrick struggled very badly against Kaka and he has also struggled to take out Iniesta for example or keep Messi quiet. Rivera is nippy enough and technically a genius, so he would arguably be a bad match up for Carrick who wouldn't be nimble enough to deal with him. Funnily enough I reckon a Hargreaves would do a better job. I do rate Carricks defensive work highly though in general much more so than his passing and ball skills in tough games where he usually goes into coward mode and can't deal with the pressure.


Riva is a beast. I might be biased but I think it is Piola and then Riva when you talk about greatest Italian no.9's as Piola was more technical whereas Riva relied more on his powerhouse factor but these two are out in front for me. Game changers at any level.

Nesta definitely too strong for Greizmann.. you couldn't pick a better CB to nullify his threat.

Breakdown of the game

Joga defence v Invictus attack

Riva, Ronaldinho and Jairzinho on paper looks fantastic but Ronaldinho looks the odd one out here because the other two for me are better on the counter or in a direct style of football whereas Dinho for me at his best likes to slow it down sometimes too. Something about him and Riva doesn't click for me but maybe I am being silly here. Jairzinho, Riva and Gento for me would be a likeminded trio which I can imagine being fast paced and lethal.

Anyway so Fachetti v Jairzinho, in the 1970 Final 1 v 1.. Fachetti did well, he wasn't beaten but he could not do anything to diminish Jairzinho's influence, who would drift to the opposite flank and take Fachetti with him, totally disrupting the structure of the Italian defence. Fachetti was also unable to prevent him from scoring and creating dangerous lay offs to his team mates.

Burgnich v Ronaldinho, I can buy into Burgnich having a decent game here.

McGrath v Riva, I will be honest I don't know enough about Bossis but focusing on this match up, it is such an interesting one. Riva for me wasn't that great v Germany in 70 until extra time, but against a strong german defence he struggled and Schnellinger who played as sweeper had an easy ride till end of 90 mins. McGrath being very strong, quick and good reader would be a good match up against Riva.

Carrick v Rivera is a mismatch but in theory he would get help from Coluna which should be fine.

Now Rivelino can definitely track Carvajal, so that isn't an issue.. that flank is well protected. But Brehme will have no one stopping him and Burgnich will be unprotected 2 v 1, unless Carrick comes over and that will leave Coluna v Rivera. Coluna is very well rounded, so he could do a good job here but it does mean he won't contribute as much going forward. Key thing to note here is that it is Ronaldinho and Brehme v Burgnich and Carrick... for me the latter two as a pairing are not strong enough to stop that route to goal.

Yoga attack v Invictus defence

Rivelino for me I don't rate that highly in an all time context as a goalscoring threat in his own right from open play in terms of taking on full backs i.e. I wouldn't back him to wreak havoc v a Carlos Alberto.. he lacks a yard of pace for me. Here against Carvajal, he is an incredible threat.

Zico is on paper marshalled by Varela and Hargreaves which seems like overkill here, Varela being one of the best DMs in history, the presence of Hargreaves is unnecessary. Nesta v Greizmann = mismatch. Rummenigge v Brehme/Vasovic, is a good contest.. leave Kalle 1 v 1 though i.e. if Brehme was up the pitch, you could be in massive trouble.

Joga also has the benefit of having midfielders who can pass the ball well from deep and Coluna especially is a danger.

Fachetti bombing forward, would make it Rivelino and Fachetti v Carvajal, as Jairzinho does not track back. This would mean Varela has to shift across here to make it competitive. That would leave Hargreaves v Zico.. which is a mismatch, as Hargreaves I don't think has had to mark anyone of that class before.. although I do rate his defensive abilities, asking him to mark Zico just seems way too pie in the sky for my liking.

Burgnich won't get forward which is a shame, as if there was a more attacking full back there.. Brehme and Vasovic would struggle with Kalle but it is possible they could keep him under control (just about).

Conclusion

I think Joga edges it for me, as if it came to set pieces, I think his team is more of a threat and I think his only weakness is defending against Ronaldinho and Brehme, whereas Invictus faces defending against Zico with Hargreaves and Varela might not be able to protect Carvajal against Rivelino/Fachetti.

 

[Joga Bonito]

@Raees that's a fair enough take on it. Regarding Bossis, he really was a classy player with exceptional reading of the game. As stated in the OP "Despite being a key presence for France, Bossis has never been yellow or red carded in his entire illustrious career for France or in international club competitions - highlighting the defensive nous of the Frenchman."

He was two times French footballer of the Year in a strong French vintage and was a regular fixture for France and Nantes. He was an exceptional player for his club side, winning 3 Ligue 1s, and made the Onze Mondial European Team of the Year six times in the space of seven years. For France, he generally played as the left back, and was excellent in Euros 1984 after taking over the reigns as the defensive leader at the back, after the retirement of Tresor. Classy and a versatile operator capable of functioning alongside the entire backline to a high degree.

McGrath being very strong, quick and good reader would be a good match up against Riva.

Agreed, McGrath is one of those unique centre-backs whom you just don't know how to classify. He was athletic,monstrous in the air and someone who relished the physical battle with the hustling centre-forwards. His reading of the game was top notch, always putting out fires and his positioning impeccable. He was technically gifted and a really cultured player on the ball - esp his one-touch passes and keeping the play ticking -, frequently playing as a DM for United and for Ireland in the Euros and the WC but he wasn't exactly overly influential and tried his best to keep it simple etc. I'm actually of the opinion that he should have been more assertive on the ball and tried to bring out his ability on the ball more, as he definitely was talented enough to do it.

Anyway, just re-posting those McGrath vids for those who might not have seen it yet (they barely have any views as it stands anyway ). Trust me it is really worth your time and might help dispel the notion that he tends to be overrated by those in the British game, or by the old timers out of a misplaced sense of nostalgia and that he hasn't done enough in the biggest of stages (apart from that one game against Italy in 1994). I've seen some have this opinion unfortunately, but that performance was definitely no anomaly. Which was why I've decided to compile some of his big game performances.



Great game from McGrath from a LCM/LDM position against Juventus in the European Cup Winners Cup semi final, keeping tabs on the likes of Platini and Boniek excellently, whilst being United's greatest threat on the night, with his aerial prowess causing absolute mayhem against a World Cup winning defense. His reading of the game is of course, on the money and his class on the ball apparent - his ball control, one touch passing etc without being too extravagant.






Yet another game against an Italian heavyweight (featuring the 3 Germans Matthäus, Klinsmann, Brehme and Bergomi of course).


A couple of points about McGrath. Whilst there is always a tinge of regret that he never fully managed to capitalise on his immense potential, he had the innate talent to be one of the all time greats imo, there is no doubting the fact that he was one of the best defenders of his generation - this is the 80s & early 90s lot that we are talking about, mind. Whilst his exploits against Italy is arguably his 'greatest' game amongst his body of work, he's had plenty of those big-game performances in his locker (McGrath himself says he's had better games) and has always been a key figure for both club and national side.

He was an excellent defender for United - a MOTM performance against a strong Everton side in the FA Cup final, a great performance against Platini's Juventus in the Cup Winner's Cup semi-final and finishing runners up to Linker in the PFA's Player of the Year award for 1986. He'd do one better at Aston Villa and win the PFA's Player of the Year award in 1993; finishing as Football Writers' Footballer of the Year Runner up in 1992 and 1993; and winning 4 consecutive club POTY awards for Aston Villa, whilst leading them to two runners up finishes in the Football League Championship and the PL. His fantastic display against United in the 1994 League Cup Final deprived us of the chance to complete a domestic treble. In fact Fergie himself personally congratulated McGrath in the tunnel later, on his performance, despite the two not being on the best of terms. McGrath is arguably Villa's greatest player ever and is fondly referred to by Villa fans as 'God'. In fact his chant still reverberates throughout Villa Park on match-days, just as 'Ooh Aah Cantona' still does at Old Trafford.


He was an inspirational presence for Ireland at the back and was one of the driving forces behind the plucky Irish side of the late eighties and early nineties - a period in which where they were extremely unfortunate to go out in the Euros 1988 against eventual winners Netherlands (more on that later), made the quarter finals in the 1990 WC and the R16 in 1994 (where his display against Baggio's Italy was the stuff of legends). Needless to say he won Ireland's 'Player of the Tournament' for both Euro '88 and Italia '90, and the Irish International Player of the Year twice during this period (90 & 91). Keano's won two of the latter for comparison's sake.

Paul McGrath represented his country 83 times on the football pitch scoring eight goals. It is difficult to recall a single poor performance by Paul when playing soccer for Ireland. Even when playing out of his normal position on the pitch invariably he was one of the star performers match-in match-out. Two stand-out performances spring to mind when Irish soccer fans are asked about Paul's greatest matches for Ireland. Both were against Italy. In the quarter final of the 1990 World Cup in Rome Italy were overwhelming favourites to win the match. In a very good overall team performance McGrath's performance stood out as the Irish lost narrowly 1-0.

Great as that performance was, and it really was great, Paul gave an absolute master class four years later in the opening group match in the World Cup finals in New York. Back in his favourite position at centre-half McGrath was simply magnificent. Ireland lead from early through a Ray Houghton goal. The Irish defence had to endure some periods of sustained attack from the talented Italians.

Jack Charlton's side, making their bow in the finals, had cause to feel aggrieved. Indeed, they had come closest to scoring in Gelsenkirchen from their only corner of the match. Paul McGrath rose majestically above the defence and headed the ball firmly down against the base of the post. A last ditch intervention by Gerald Vanenburgh prevented the ball spinning over the goal line.

McGrath was imperious, a colossus with bad knees. Injury to right-back Chris Morris forced him to vacate his midfield berth for this game as cover but he was as influential as ever – at both ends. He did not deserve to be a footnote for the winner, as with desperate Dutch pressure mounting it was his header that Ronald Koeman unintentionally turned towards Kieft.

McGrath also featured in the Ballon d'Or list 4 times during his career finishing 17th, 12th, 13th & 26th - the votes tally isn't earth-shattering stuff but it's vital to take into context that he was a defender who wasn't necessarily playing for a top team nor in one of the heavyweight continental leagues etc. A top notch player on his day and quite simply a wall at the back.



McGrath tended to be plagued by injuries throughout his career but it never stopped him from delivering on the pitch when it mattered most.

I suffered from knee problems and underwent 10 operations in total, seven at Manchester United, another two at Villa and then one during my time at Sheffield United.

My right knee is now bone on bone, the left one was done back in 1988 after the European Championships and it took ages to come back from because I kept coming back too soon.

I had plenty of memorable games in my time at Villa but the 1994 Coca Cola Cup Final when we beat Manchester United at Wembley was special.

I wouldn't have been listening to the instructions as I'd had a load of injections in my neck as I'd lost the use of my arm the day before and was late coming out of the tunnel.

Shaun Teale was magnificent on the day and helped carry me through the match as I had never lost the power in my arm before and it was so painful in my back, neck and shoulders.

It was so painful at the time I'd had to sleep sitting up.

I reckon I was maybe sixty per cent fit for USA '94 and playing largely on instinct. My left arm was useless because of a virus in my shoulder and I needed about five paces to simply find my stride. Against the likes of Giuseppe Signori and Roberto Baggio, that made for a pretty never wrecking ordeal. If you look at photographs of that game, my arm might as well be in a sling. It's hanging limp down by my side, like a snapped branch on a tree. Yet the longer the game went on, the more confident I became.

There's a chemistry that kicks in between defender and striker. One eventually knows that he is being manipulated by the other. That day, Baggio was no longer inclined to move in my direction. Signori had been substituted. It was over.

It speaks volumes about his resilience and mentality that despite being injury prone (so much so that he stopped training and only did light sessions on the bike after a few months at Villa) he still managed to deliver top class performances well into his thirties.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Spoiler: Quotes on McGrath

Paul had this really nonchalant way of defending. He could just sally through a game. A ball would come into the box and he'd just back-heel it to safety... I dithered over whether I should play him or not, because Rush and Dalglish were a handful. I just wasn't sure that he was ready for them. I played him in the end and he was magnificent. Honestly, he just walked through the game. Never gave Rush a kick. And of course, Ian Rush never would score against United while McGrath was playing. We actually gave Liverpool a bit of a doing that day, came back from 1-3 down to draw 3-3. I know it doesn't sound great defensively, but McGrath was superb. It told you a lot about him

He was an exceptionally skilful and stylish defender, with marvellous innate athleticism, a man whose abilities stood comparison with any central defender in the game.

It was incredible that he could play to the level he played at, given what was going on in his life. He had an athleticism that was musical, if you know what I mean. There was a rhythm about Paul running, this change of pace he had. You'd see him do it and be thinking, "Jeeez, can he run..."

You have to wonder what a player Paul McGrath should have been.

...the best defender in the world

Big Paul McGrath showed all the qualities demanded of us for half an hour in Giants Stadium that day. For him the word big is appropriate. Known for his poise, his ability on the ball, his unique gift for reading the game, Paul displayed these qualities on this day. One other huge asset was his courage. When the Italians did get sight of the goal, Paul presented a final, insurmountable obstacle. Paul inspired us as much as in the end he demoralised Roberto Baggio and the other Italian players.

Paul McGrath is one of the all-time greats. Someone to compare with Bobby Moore. He's one of the best players I ever had.

This was really difficult because when I go back to when I first played at Man United I played with Gordon McQueen, Kevin Moran, Steve Bruce, Gary Pallister... But I called McGrath the Rolls-Royce, he was quick, strong, fantastic on the ball and had a better touch than anybody in our squad at that time. He was so skilful.

There were many who felt Paul's career would end early. The fact that he played at the top level for so long, without the benefit of normal training was a tribute to his enormous natural talent.

How good was Macca in 1993? Immense. Sometimes you'd be watching him and thinking, "Where's he going now, where's... oh, there's the ball, stuck to his foot!". He was a defender who always attracted the ball. Sometimes you'd think, "Uh oh, he's gone too far past the near post," but the ball would just come to him. He seemed like a magnet to the ball. And he had such immense power

This is not possible. What McGrath is doing is just not possible with the amount of preparation that he's had.

People talk about the lack of goals I scored against Man United and the reason for that was Paul McGrath, he was too good.

Looking back, I would have loved to have played with Macca here. 100%. I would have learned so much - I was only 22 at the time.

"Who wouldn't want to have played with Paul McGrath? That was a regret.

Like Bobby Moore, Paul McGrath played football as though he was wearing a silk smoking jacket with a crystal glass in his hand.

"I never saw him get beaten for pace - and I never saw him kick a ball with his left foot! To not train in the week and then perform like he did? That was just phenomenal. He just rarely put a foot wrong. For all his issues, what a player. He was the standout. That was just natural talent in my opinion.

He was a gentleman too, off the pitch. But on it, yes he was brilliant. He was exceptional. I have no idea how he fitted in so well on matchdays. We worked on shape all week and then he came in on matchdays and just did the business. He just knew what to do. Paul knew exactly where to be and what to do. He was like a magnet in our area - he cleared everything. And, remember, his knees were shot.

Obviously as a defender myself, I remember most vividly the lads at the back from that 1996 era. Paul was the lynchpin.

tl;dr just watch the videos if you can.

 

[Raees]

I think it is fair to say that McGrath is possibly the most complete British defensive player of all time in terms of sheer talent and completeness. Moore had a better brain but McGrath was Vidic, Ferdinand and a world class DM rolled into one. He was superior athletically and in the air.. with more drive going forwards.

Moore is the better out and out CB but McGrath is overall the complete defensive player. Stopper and sweeper rolled into one.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Why do you think so? Carrick is quite strong in reading the game, anticipating passes and positioning himself to cut off routes. Considering his lack of pace, I think Rivera kind of pure passer will be right up his avenue than a quick dribbler like Zico.

I actually don't think it's fair to label Rivera as a pure passer as he was a really nifty player on the ball and an excellent dribbler - started off as a trickster out wide and was signed for a record fee as a wunderkid. Became a great playmaker as he developed but he was still a dangerous dribbler capable of beating his man imo. Coluna and Carrick will definitely have their hands full with him but like I've (and Raees) have mentioned, he is arguably the only threat from midfield and I reckon it would be relatively easier to keep an eye on him with two fairly limited defensive presences behind him.

 

[Raees]

I actually don't think it's fair to label Rivera as a pure passer as he was a really nifty player on the ball and an excellent dribbler - started off as a trickster out wide and was signed for a record fee as a wunderkid. Became a great playmaker as he developed but he was still a dangerous dribbler capable of beating his man imo. Coluna and Carrick will definitely have their hands full with him but like I've (and Raees) have mentioned, he is arguably the only threat from midfield and I reckon it would be relatively easier to keep an eye on him with two fairly limited defensive presences behind him.

Rivera v Carrick hypothetically 1 v 1 would definitely be too much for Carrick to handle. Watch any footage of the young Rivera at his peak and he is a top quality runner with the ball.. the perfect number 10.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Bump, won't be around for a couple of hours and might miss the end, but will try my best to make it back for the home stretch and answer any queries or take part in ongoing discussions etc. Been a great match so far.

Will leave you all with this gem of a compilation

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Neither team features traditional width. In this context I think Carvajal adds more balance in attack than Burgnich...but at the same time, he is against Rivelino/Facchetti. mmmm

 

[Invictus]

Wrt. width, IMO we have a very direct and fairly obvious route to goal with Brehme-Riva. A GOAT level crosser of the ball combining with one of the best headers of the ball in forward positions. Yes, Riva will not get on the end of all the balls, but the movement of Ronaldinho and Jairzinho on the rebound will lead to a lot of chaos. With Burgnich as a deeper cover, Brehme will have loads of space to operate in.

Also, not marking Jairzinho individually could be a costly decision in our opinion - because that gives him direct running routes at Bossis, with McGrath being occupied with Riva, and Burgnich with Ronaldinho. With Rivera operating in the space between the midfield and the opposition's defense - that could create an overload. Jairzinho was always buzzing around the goal, even when being marked by Facchetti:






When you take that safety blanket away, the defense will become rather vulnerable, especially without a dedicated defensive midfielder to mind Rivera.

 

[Invictus]

A sample of what Rivera can do when he's afforded space, and time on the ball:

The infamous performance vs Ajax in the 1969 European Cup final before Johan exploded in life in the early '70s. Provides assists and several key passes for Milan - who won 4-1, and Rivera won the Ballon D'Or that year after finishing 2nd when he won his first European Cup with Milan.


In the footballing realm, Italy is a European powerhouse indeed. Since forever, the Italians have been known for their elaborate, tactical superiority and a monstrous defense that can make even the best attack in the world look helpless and feeble.

They don't always play a beautiful game. They frustrate and wear out oppositions, play a tough game, never shy away from a rough tackle. Scoring a goal against the Italians is an achievement that should be engraved on your tombstone.

It's slightly shocking then, that in such a defensive and tough mindset, a rather frail-bodied, shy but graceful, creative genius was born. What is not surprising though, considering his talent, is that he went on to become one of the best footballers of all time.

Gianni Rivera is truly a legend.

Giovanni Rivera was born in Alessandria on August 18th, 1943. His love for football was evident right from an early age and his unique silky style and creativity soon caught everyone's eye. Though he started out on the wings, he would find himself more suited in the central midfield position, playing deep and creating opportunities.

He made his Serie A debut at the age of 15 for his hometown Alessandria. His debut match was, as luck would have it, against AC Milan's bitter rivals—Inter Milan.

Gianni scored six goals in 25 appearances the next season. It was a splendid return for a midfielder of that age in the toughest league of the time, defensively speaking.

And it was not long before the Italian giants AC Milan recognized his potential and brought him over to the glorious red-and-black side of Milan, where he would stay until the end of his long and illustrious career.

The transfer fee was a record one at that time: An earth-shattering $200,000, for a 16-year-old who had played only one real season. But having watched Rivera play, few doubted the youngster's potential, and everybody knew Milan were an even bigger offensive threat now.

By this time, he was already dubbed "The golden boy." Throughout the 1960s, he would dominate the midfield, and etch a name for himself in the history books as one of the finest and the most refined players of his time, and indeed, of any time.

His playing style was unique and radically different from his Italian teammates, even in the midfield. He was never a physical player—his body structure wouldn't allow him to be so.

Though he wasn't a rough player, it would be a mistake to say he wasn't gritty. He compensated his on-field physical inferiority with supreme intelligence and creative flamboyance. His vision for passing was immaculate; he created room for himself and provided high-percentage assists.

His midfield dominance was not one warranted by an intimidating presence, but more so by his tactical and technical brilliance, of which there are few parallels.

After his arrival at the San Siro, Rivera wouldn't have to wait long to taste success with the Rossoneri. He smashed in 10 goals in the 1961/62 season and AC Milan would go on and win the Scudetto.

That same year, Rivera also made his international debut for Italy, but his international career, though memorable, would be more painful for him in years to come.

But his days of scripting the glory days of the Rossoneri were just beginning. 1962 also saw AC Milan beat Benfica 2-1 in a memorable match and Milan won the European Cup, now known as the Champions League.

The latter half of the decade saw Rivera become an absolute phenomenon as Milan won the Italian Cup, the Serie A league title, the European cup, the Cup Winner's Cup, the Europe/South America cup—all in just two years.

Milan was undoubtedly the best club in the world, and Gianni Rivera was the hero.

In 1969, the 26-year-old Rivera won the prestigious Ballon d'or award. He was the first Italian to do so.

Rivera continued to churn out good performances during the 70s, as Milan won another couple of Italian cups, and a Cup Winner's Cup in the decade.

But Rivera's international career was not as he would have expected it to be. For bitter city rivals Inter Milan had another brilliant star midfielder by the name of Alessandro Mazzola. The Rivera-Mazzola rivalry, though only on field and fueled mostly by the Milan-Inter rivalry, was one for the ages.

It was so intense that even though both were brilliant players, the Italian national coach would only select one at a time as he thought they could not co-exist together on the field. He employed a strategy known as staffetta wherein Mazzola played the first half, and Rivera would play the second.

Each of them had their own style and their own assets and weaknesses. Mazzola was more physical and controlling of the midfield, playing on the right hand side; Rivera was the more refined, silky smooth, creative midfielder who played at his own pace in the center.

The strategy paid rich dividends as Italy would reach the finals of the 1970 World Cup against Brazil. Wait....Pele's Brazil. That adds a whole new dimension to it all.

But when the world's best offense squared off against the world's best defense, the Italian coach made the biggest mistake of his career: He didn't bring on Rivera in the second half, thinking that the tougher Mazzola was the better option against the quick, aggressive style of the Brazilians.

Rivera finally came on to the field with only a few minutes to spare, and Italy lost.

He represented the Azzurri once again in 1974, but age and time were not on his side. Not winning the World Cup for his country was probably the biggest disappointment of his career.

Rivera would help Milan win yet another Scudetto in 1979, his final year at the club.

By that time he had made, in total, 658 appearances for Milan, scoring 164 goals. Prolific, by any standards.

Rivera stayed at the club helping in administrative matters, and even became the vice-president. But when Silvio Berlusconi, lying on the opposite political spectrum of his, bought the club in 1986, he had to leave. Rivera soon joined politics.

There is a reason this footballer was so prolific—and it goes far beyond a mere list of the awards and titles he has won.

Some say talent is a natural gift. Some say talent is a result of hard work. Well, Rivera is the unadulterated personification of both these aspects unified, amplified several times.

He had talent, but he applied himself the right way. Like all great players, he was aware of his strengths and weaknesses. His graceful passing, shrewd understanding of the game, and above all, his uncorrupted desire to play the beautiful game of football, is what makes him the legend that he is today.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Are you using the majestic plural - or do you have an AM?

Just curious.

 

[harms]

It's interesting, how do you guys rate Rivera? I often see claims that he is one of the best players in Italian history but I don't see him as a superior to Meazza or Baggio (speaking of offensive players, of course). More so, in my book he is closer to the generation talent rather than the all-time - similar to Albert or Kaka for example.

Maybe the whole situation with Mazzola and underwhelming international career influenced my opinion of him unfairly

 

[harms]

Are you using the majestic plural - or do you have an AM?

Just curious.

He probably associates himself with the team, that would be my guess

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I often see claims that he is one of the best players in Italian history but I don't see him as a superior to Meazza or Baggio (speaking of offensive players, of course).

No, wouldn't say so either. Around that level, I suppose.

Best Italian player ever would be a defender, you'd think - several candidates there.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

It's interesting, how do you guys rate Rivera? I often see claims that he is one of the best players in Italian history but I don't see him as a superior to Meazza or Baggio (speaking of offensive players, of course). More so, in my book he is closer to the generation talent rather than the all-time - similar to Albert or Kaka for example.

Maybe the whole situation with Mazzola and underwhelming international career influenced my opinion of him unfairly

- FIFA Player of the Century Specialists poll lists Meazza at 21 and Sandro Mazzola at 42 amongst 5 italians (Baresi, Piola and Facchetti are others). Grand Jury poll only has Baggio from Italy in their Top 10.
- FIFA Golden Jubilee poll (past 50 years) lists Baggio at 24 ahead of Rivera at 35.

Not sure on how much weight you give to these polls given the political interference...but in my personal opinion, I'd agree that Baggio, Meazza and Mazzola be rated ahead of Rivera. Still Rivera is the only classic #10 in that. Baggio, Meazza and Mazzola are more attacking and potentially IF/SS category players.

 

[Gio]

It's interesting, how do you guys rate Rivera? I often see claims that he is one of the best players in Italian history but I don't see him as a superior to Meazza or Baggio (speaking of offensive players, of course). More so, in my book he is closer to the generation talent rather than the all-time - similar to Albert or Kaka for example.

Maybe the whole situation with Mazzola and underwhelming international career influenced my opinion of him unfairly

It's hard to place Meazza realistically, but by all accounts he's in or around an all-time Italian XI. Baggio probably had a little more magic in his feet and delivered more memorably on the biggest tournament stage. Albert and Kaka would be slightly different types of attacking midfielder to me, but the general level is fair-ish. Probably a notch above Kaka to be honest.

 

[Joga Bonito]

but at the same time, he is against Rivelino/Facchetti. mmmm

Indeed, Facchetti is arguably the greatest wing-back of all time and with the creative Rivelino in the inside left position to dovetail with, it certainly has all the makings of a tasty partnership and that too against arguably the weakest player on the pitch (Carvajal) with the least protection - Jairzinho won't neccessarily track back much and Varela would presumably be occupied with Zico That being said I won't say it's the most glaring mismatch as Invictus certainly has some things going for him too - the impact of Brehme which I've highlighted in the OP. More so than Riva, whom i believe is well marshalled by McGrath who was absolutely imperious in the air and damn near unbeatable.

Back on topic, not only was Facchetti capable of manning his flank single-handedly, he was a clutch player to boot too and one of the most productive FBs of all time.


Quoting a great post by Skorezny

Also, in tight games like these the scorer is likely to be someone that isn't the main attacking threat, like a Facchetti or a Hierro (for Cutch).

In this sense, Facchetti has form. Of his 5 European Cup goals, 4 have come in the semi-finals. And all quite clutch goals as well.


1964/65 European Cup, Semi-Final, 2nd Leg | Inter 3 - 0 Liverpool; he scored the 3rd goal (very similar to Jordi Alba's goal in the Euro 2012 Final, great run forward, he receives a perfect pass into his stride and a great shot finish past the keeper, although in Facchetti's case it was right through the centre of the pitch, funnily enough not the left side), which meant Inter won the tie 4-3 on aggregate.

1965/66 European Cup, First Round, 2nd Leg | Inter 2 - 0 Dinamo Bucuresti; he scored the 2nd goal (headed in a cross), which meant Inter won the tie 3-2 on aggregate.

1965/66 European Cup, Semi-Final, 2nd Leg | Inter 1 - 1 Real Madrid; he scored the equaliser (a striker's finish as Inter tiki-taka their way through RM's defense and he receives the ball on the left side and finishes with a perfectly placed low diagonal shot in the side of the goal just inside the far post), but RM won the tie 2-1 on aggregate.

1966/67 European Cup, Semi-Final, 1st Leg | Inter 1 - 1 CSKA Red Flag (Sofia); he scored the opening goal (he turned in a cross I think, can't quite tell from a video I found as its quality is unclear; in open play anyway).

1966/67 European Cup, Semi-Final, 2nd Leg | CSKA Red Flag (Sofia) 1 - 1 Inter; he again scored the opening goal (headed in a corner), but the Bulgarians equalised which lead to a decisive, play-off game which Inter won 1-0.

Headers, screamers, left-foot, right-foot, he's got em all in his locker and you can see some of the really nice inter-play that he had with Corso - which you can expect him to reprise with Rivelino here.

 

[Invictus]

IMO, the McGrath imperious angle in bordering on hyperbole here. He was a good defender, but the best central defender on the pitch in Nesta; and - Riva wasn't some scrub that would be shut down just because he's facing McGrath. He played in the era of peak Catenaccio (arguably the greatest defensive generation in European football) - and scored loads and loads and loads of goals (thrice he was the top scorer of the league - which is a record second to only Gunnar Nordahl - and that for a league that hosted Van Basten, Shevchenko, Batistuta, etc etc). It's not like McGrath shut every attacker down, not even Franco Baresi can lay claim to that. Riva will definitely get a lot of joy here, as opposed to the opposition pseudo-forward #9.

 

[Joga Bonito]

IMO, the McGrath imperious angle in bordering on hyperbole here. He was a good defender, but the best central defender on the pitch in Nesta; and - Riva wasn't some scrub that would be shut down just because he's facing McGrath.

I'd rate Nesta ahead of him and he is the best defender on the pitch too and by some distance (if we exclude FBs). For what it's worth I rate Bossis, Vasovic and McGrath in the following order (albeit them being different sort of defenders). Just meant Riva's heading prowess and physical game matches up well to McGrath's strengths. Oh and 'damn near unbeatable', was meant for his aerial game and not him as an overall defender.

That's not to reduce Riva to a mere physical heading beast but likewise McGrath wasn't merely a pure stopper either etc.

 

[Ecstatic]

I don't see a player 'out of position'.

Invictus has a conventional offensive strategy while the strategy of Joga is more creative/innovative.

Griezmann is probably the best possible youth player. Even in France, there is consensus to say Griezmann is the best French player & Pogba is more 'controversial'. BTW, Dybala would have deserved to be part of this draft.

Despite the facts that Griezmann is not a pure #9 and he said he prefered to move around a target striker, he can do the job here because he is really versatile. Zico is certainly used to play with a conventional #9. It doesn't really matter because there is some similarities in their style of play based on the mobility, the speed and superior technical skills. So, the partnership Zico-Griezmann could be complementary. After all, Spain won the Euro 2012 without a #9 on the pitch and - here - we have Rumminege who is a pure scorer. Carvajal will suffer here

On the other hand, Riva would enjoy a strong support with Ronaldinho-Rivera-Jairzinho.

The more I think, the more I'm unhappy to have had to choose between these teams

 

[Gio]

Gone for Joga. I think the mismatch of Rivelino (with the help of Facchetti) against Carvajal is slightly more likely to be decisive than Rivera's likelihood of exerting control against Coluna and Carrick. Tight game though and I don't see any clear gaps anywhere else. Zico as the best player on the park would be influential even up against the diligent Varela, but the other phases of play would be keenly matched on the whole.

 

[harms]

Wow, a newbie from Russia voted for Joga

 

[Theon]

Tight game though and I don't see any clear gaps anywhere else.

Do you not see a clear gap in Riva vs Griezmann and the respective threat up front?

I've no doubt personally that Nesta/Vasovic (which is the better defensive pairing anyway) will have an easier time than McGrath/Bossis - even beyond the quality differential, Riva offers a level of penetration and movement thats on another level to Griezmann and IMO that threat in behind the defence is something both teams need stylistically given the passing quality on show.

 

[Ecstatic]

Hard luck @Joga Bonito

Fantastic work of both managers

 

[Joga Bonito]

Good game @Invictus & @Theon . Good luck for the next few games, with Redondo coming back into the side, it has all the makings of a cracking side.

Regarding the debate on Rivera, I think he's a lovely player myself and whilst he might not be in the top echelon of greats, he's definitely in the top tier of #10s imo. There are very few playmakers that I'd have above him as the #10 pulling the strings - Platini, Charlton, Maradona etc (obviously excluding the likes of Cruyff/di Stefano etc who can't just be classified as a #10, well the same applies to the three above in different ways, but yeah.) Provides a nice balance to Ronaldinho and Jarizinho's directness whilst being a notable threat on the ball himself.

 

[Invictus]

Cheers @Joga Bonito. The final scoreline and margin is quite deceiving, to be honest. And yeah, El Príncipe is a timely boost for the starting XI.

 

[Raees]

IMO, the McGrath imperious angle in bordering on hyperbole here. He was a good defender, but the best central defender on the pitch in Nesta; and - Riva wasn't some scrub that would be shut down just because he's facing McGrath. He played in the era of peak Catenaccio (arguably the greatest defensive generation in European football) - and scored loads and loads and loads of goals (thrice he was the top scorer of the league - which is a record second to only Gunnar Nordahl - and that for a league that hosted Van Basten, Shevchenko, Batistuta, etc etc). It's not like McGrath shut every attacker down, not even Franco Baresi can lay claim to that. Riva will definitely get a lot of joy here, as opposed to the opposition pseudo-forward #9.

Nesta is definitely a more proven CB. No guarantee McGrath would shut him down.. just saying on paper its a good match up and he's well equipped to give Riva a good game.

Congrats on the win mate, you'll be one of the favourites to win.. your team is solid as feck.

 

[Raees]

It's hard to place Meazza realistically, but by all accounts he's in or around an all-time Italian XI. Baggio probably had a little more magic in his feet and delivered more memorably on the biggest tournament stage. Albert and Kaka would be slightly different types of attacking midfielder to me, but the general level is fair-ish. Probably a notch above Kaka to be honest.

Don't know if you've read Calcio. One of the best books on Italian football but Meazza is usually considered head and shoulders above any italian and that includes Baggio.

Albert is a very similar style attacking midfielder to Kaka but I think he's better technically. Rivera is more a silky style 10 rather than one who relies heavily on his dribbling ability to run at heart of defences... I too would place him above Kaka. Albert for me is a personal favourite though.. so underrated.

 

[Enigma_87]

A piece on Meazza, well worth the read:

Giuseppe "Peppino" Meazza (Italian pronunciation: ; 23 August "1910 – 21 August 1979), also known as il Balilla, was an Italian footballer playing mainly for Internazionale in the 1930s, scoring 242 goals in 365 games for the club. He led Italy to win two consecutive World Cups: in 1934 on home soil, and in 1938 as captain, winning the Golden Ball Award in 1934. He is widely considered one of the best players of his generation, and among the greatest of all time, as well as being the greatest Italian player of all time to some.[1] [2] Due to his technical skill, prolific goalscoring, and creative ability, he was often given the nickname ""il genio"" (the genius) by the Italian press during his career.[3] He has been ranked fourth-best player in the history of the World Cup.[4] A prolific forward, with 33 goals, Meazza is also the second highest goalscorer for the Italian national team,[5] and with 216 goals in Serie A, he is the fourth all-time highest goal scorer in Serie A, alongside José Altafini.[6] With 338 goals, he is the third-highest goalscoring Italian player in all competitions.[7]

""I also saw Pelé playing. He did not achieve Meazza's elegant style of playing. One day, at the Arena, I witnessed him doing something astonishing: he stopped the ball with a bicycle kick, elevating himself two meters from the ground. Then he landed with the ball glued at his foot, dribbled over an astonished defender, and then went on scoring a goal with one of his hallmark shots, sardonic and accurate to the millimeter.""[8]
— Luigi Veronelli

Early life

He began his career as all out striker, but showed his skill and ability by also becoming an accomplished midfielder, playing for more than half of his career as inside forward. He was a great leader with excellent shooting and intoxicating dribbling skill, an eye for the pass and, despite his middle height, an exceptional heading ability.[9] [10]

His nickname, ""il Balilla"",[11] was given to him in 1927 by his older teammate Leopoldo Conti, who thought ""Pepp"", who was only 17 when he joined the senior team, was too young to be associated to the senior team, and was surprised after Inter coach Árpád Weisz decided to give Meazza his debut for Inter in his place. ""Now we even take players from kindergarten!"" exclaimed Conti sarcastically. The National Opera Balilla, the Fascist youth organisation which collected all children aged 8 to 14 years, was established in 1926 and so Conti thought it a good way to describe the young rookie. Meazza scored two goals on his debut in a 6–2 win against Milanese Unione Sportiva in the Coppa Volta in Como, leaving old ""Poldo"" Conti speechless[12] The ""Gazzetta dello Sport"", the day after his official debut in the Italian championship on 12 September 1927, praised his game ""intelligent, fresh, quick"",[12] something that didn't happen very frequently during those days.

Meazza was born in Porta Vittoria, Milan. Having lost his father in 1917 during the tragic fighting of World War I at the age of seven, young Peppe grew up in Milan with his mother, Ersilia who came from Mediglia, helping her sell fruit at the market. However, it was football that was his true calling. His mother hid his shoes so he would not waste his time, so young Peppin learned to play barefoot. He began playing at six years old on the streets on a team named the ""Maestri Campionesi"" who played with a ball made of rags. At twelve years old he finally got permission from his mother to pursue being a footballer, and began playing for Gloria F.C.. It was here that a fan bought him his first proper pair of football boots.

Meazza was the first Italian football player who became famous worldwide, and was the first player with personal sponsors. Unlike his more reserved friend, international team-mate, and club-rival Silvio Piola, a player with whom Meazza was often compared, he was a much more flamboyant character both on and off the pitch.[13] He loved his cabriolet, champagne and women and was the only player on the national team that was allowed to smoke. Meazza was famous for humiliating the best defenders of the era and for sleeping at a brothel the night before a match. With his plush touch on the ball, he would cause panic in the robust defenders from an era where two footed tackles from behind were often waved on. Sometimes he would not get out of bed until his teammates were already done practicing. He also loved the Tango and used this proficiency to make him unpredictable on the field and could score goals at fox-trot tempo. He was a superb dribbler who despite his speed, never had a single brylcreemed hair out of place, and although he was not tall, was remarkably good in the air. Meazza created many chances for his teammates and scored goals as well. His goals ""a foglia morta"", the ""dead leaf technique"", were also feared by goalkeepers. As an offensive playmaker, he was a brilliant passer, two-footed, had remarkable field vision, and was noted for his balance and agility on the ball, as well as his turns and spins.[1] [2] [10] [11]

His trademark goals were ones where he would collect the ball at the half-line, dribble through several opponents with a series of twinkle-toed shuffles, and turns, until arriving in front of the goal, where he would stop and invite the goalkeeper to attack him like a matador, before faking a shot, then dribbling past the beaten goalkeeper to slot home easily.[10] In away games, the defenders would often foul and hack him to avoid being humiliated.[14] ""Gol alla Meazza"" and ""finte alla Meazza"" have since become popular sayings for Italian football fans to describe a truly inspiring goal off the dribble or a series of jukes. His goals “ad invito”, where he would invite the goalkeeper out before dribbling around him is yet another popular saying. Meazza once said, ""There is nothing worse than having a penalty kick saved by a keeper who didn't understand the fake.""[1] [2] [11]

Vittorio Pozzo, the mastermind coach behind both Italian World Cup victories, wrote of him: ""He was a born forward. He saw the game, understood the situation, distributed the ball carefully and made the team offense operate. Having him on the team was like starting the game 1–0 up.""

Gianni Brera called him ""Il Folber"", and his style of play the ""fasso-tuto-mi"" because he considered him the complete central midfielder and a nimble acrobat. ""He was only Italian that stood out amongst the sensational Brazilians and Argentines"" said Brera.[15]

Peppino Prisco, who became vice-president of Internazionale in 1963 and won every trophy possible with the club considered him the best of all time and said, ""Meazza was great, unbeatable, even if he would occasionally run into a frightful crisis, caused by his intense sexual activity and his passion for the game. When he took over on the field, he did things that left the mouth ajar.""

Bruno Acari IV, who played with Meazza at A.C. Milan and later coached, once said that ""Peppino never wanted to hear about tactics. He was a simple person who became a king when he entered the goal box, with a technical ability that was comparable to Pelé.""

San Siro, the principal stadium in his native city of Milan, which is today shared by Internazionale and crosstown rivals A.C. Milan, is now officially called Stadio Giuseppe Meazza.[16]
Club career

At the age of 13, Meazza admired Milan, but was rejected by them for being too skinny. However, he was received with open arms by Internazionale. He was randomly observed juggling a rag ball in the street by an Inter scout and quickly signed. They fed him steaks so he would get bigger and stronger. At first he was used to fill a gap in defense instead of being allowed to follow his attacking instinct, but luckily Inter's junior coach later corrected the mistake. He scored two goals on his debut in a 6–2 win against Milanese Unione Sportiva in the Coppa Volta di Como.

 

[Enigma_87]

continued

Meazza still holds the record for the most goals scored in a debut season in Serie A, with 31 goals in his first season (1929–30). The year before, when Serie A did not exist, and the Italian Championship was composed of 2 leagues (North and Central-South) with playoffs, Meazza played 29 matches, scoring 38 goals at the age of 18 years. He scored 5 goals in a single game, twice in one season: 6 January 1929 Inter against Pistoiese 9–1 and 17 March 1929 Inter v Verona 9–0. That same season (1928–29) on 12 May 1929, he scored six goals as Inter beat Venezia 10–2. 27 April 1930 was the first time Inter ever played A.S. Roma in Milan. Inter won 6–0 and Meazza scored four goals, scoring his first three within three minutes of the game.

With Meazza on the squad, Inter (re-christened Ambrosiana while under Fascist law) won 3 national championships in 1930, 1938 and 1940, and helped win the team's first Coppa Italia in 1939. The 1930 championship was Inter's first since 1920 and they were considered underdogs to teams like Bologna, Torino, Juventus and Genoa. It was Meazza's dazzling form that clinched the inaugural Serie A title. In the deciding game, he scored a second half hat-trick to tie the game against Genoa after Inter had been down 3–0. He was top-scorer of Serie A 3 times (1930, 1936, 1938), top-scorer in the pre-Serie A year of 1929 and top scorer of the Mitropa Cup three times: 1930 (7), 1933 (5) and 1936 (10); he finished with a runners-up medal in the competition in 1933.[17]

During the 1933 season, Meazza made a bet with Gianpiero Combi, goalkeeper of Juventus and captain of the 1934 World Champion Italian National Team. Combi challenged Meazza, claiming that nobody, not even Meazza, could sidestep him to score a goal. Meazza accepted the challenge. Combi also made another bet with Meazza. A few weeks earlier, while training with the national team, Meazza scored a splendid bicycle kick against the Juventus goalkeeper. Combi wagered that he could not repeat it in an official game. The next game between Ambrosiana Inter and Juventus was played in the Arena Civica of Milan on 25 May 1933. Meazza managed to score two stupendous goals. The first goal was an identical overhead kick to the one he had scored against Combi in practice. For the second goal he dribbled through a series of defenders, before faking out Combi, dribbling past him, and scoring a tap-in goal. Combi immediately got up and shook Meazza's hand.

Sometimes his love of champagne and woman would cause him trouble with the board of directors.

""Luckily I lived near the stadium, and I managed to get there in a rush. My teammates and the coach looked at me disapprovingly. It was only five minutes before the kick-off, so I quickly changed and joined the team on the pitch. I could hear the Inter directors saying: 'We'll deal with him after the match. We'll find out what he's been up to.' Luckily I scored a hat-trick so afterwards no one said a word!"" Giuseppe Meazza.
Giuseppe Meazza with Amedeo Biavati

Incidents of the sort soon became common. In 1937, it was the day of the game against Juventus in Milan with only an hour before the game and Meazza had still not shown up. The directors became nervous and sent a masseuse and another trainer in a car to find him. They found him in bed, sleeping profoundly and snoring. Without even washing his face, they dragged him up and rushed him to the stadium. While lying down in the back seat Meazza told them of love filled night and said he felt like a lion. The Lion Meazza entered the dressing room and without any squabbling, they quickly gave him his number 9 jersey. He scored two goals that game and was the best on the field. Inter won the game 2–1 and beat Juventus for the Serie A scudetto by two points.

When Ambrosiana beat Bari in the 1937–38 championship, he scored five goals in a 9–2 victory. The next week he scored a hat-trick against Lucchese. Along with fellow Inter players Ferraris II, Ferrari, and Locatelli, Meazza was involved in the Azzurri set-up that wins the 1938 World Cup in Paris. The same year, Inter won their fourth Scudetto, while the clubs first Coppa Italia success came in 1939.

An injury put him out of action for most of 1938–39, and after having devoted the best part of his career to Inter, Meazza transferred to A.C. Milan on 28 November 1940. In almost a century of rivalry, Meazza is the only man who has ever come close to bridging the chasm between the two clubs. The next 9 February, before the derby with Inter, Meazza cried in the dressing room, but then he scored the equalizer for Milan in a 2–2 draw. He wore the red and black shirt from 1940–1942. Later in his career he also played for Juventus, A.S. Varese 1910 and Atalanta Bergamo.

His debut for Juventus, 18 October 1942, took place in the derby against Torino. It was not a happy debut. Meazza was untrained, looked overweight and slower in movement. When he entered the game with the number eight jersey and came face to face with goalkeeper, the crowd waited for one of its famous ""goal by invitation only,"" but he did not have the necessary speed of motion and he ended up losing the ball ignominiously. The game was eventually won by Torino 5 to 2. Things went better when he was moved to the center of the attack, where he contributed ten goals, even scoring two against his old club Ambrosiana.

In 1946 he was recalled to Inter as a player-coach. He played seventeen games, scoring the last two goals of his career to help an Inter team that was in danger of relegation.
International career

Meazza played for Italy in the 1934 and 1938 World Cups, both of which Italy won. Apart from being on and captaining the first team to win a World Cup when not the host in 1938, Meazza, along with Giovanni Ferrari, Guido Masetti and Eraldo Monzeglio, also set a record for being the first players to win two World Cups (consecutive ones). Up until today, they are still the only Europeans to have achieved this record.

His debut with the Azzurri was in Rome on 9 February 1930 against Switzerland. Then nineteen years old, Meazza scored twice in that game (in the 37th and 39th minutes) to help Italy to a 4–2 victory after they had been down by two goals in only 19 minutes. The next game Italy played was on 2 March 1930 against Germany in Frankfurt, where Meazza scored a goal in a 2–0 win. A few months later, on 11 May 1930, he scored a hat-trick in a 5–0 game as Italy beat the Hungary of Larcos, Hirzer and Pál Titkos for the first time ever while playing in Budapest. Meazza helped Italy win the Dr. Gero Cup (or Central European International Cup, the forerunner to the European Championship) that year; a cup was a three-year international tournament between the strongest national teams of central and eastern Europe.[5]

 

[Enigma_87]

And last part:

On 25 January 1931, Meazza scored another three goals in a 5–0 win against France.[5]

During the Dr. Gero Cup game on 22 February at the San Siro, Meazza helped Italy to victory after overcoming an early deficit when Horvath had scored in the 4th minute to beat Austria for the first time in its history. While dribbling the ball in attack, he noticed two defenders closing down on him. He stopped the ball with the sole of his shoe, making both defenders fall to the ground, before racing towards goal, running forty yards, then faking Josef Smistik, dribbling around Roman Schramseis, drawing out the keeper Rodolphe Hiden, faking and dribbling around him, making the off balance keeper crash into Schramseis, before tapping the ball into the net for the equaliser and one of the most beautiful goals in soccer history. Italy won 2–1.

His first fifteen caps were at center-forward, but in 1933, he showed his versatility during a 3–1 victory over Germany in Bologna, when he was moved to an inside-right position by the Italian coach Vittorio Pozzo, to accommodate teammate Angelo Schiavio, a switch that would help Italy win the World Cup the next year as the goals flowed in. During the tournament, Meazza once again demonstrated his adaptability when he was switched to an inside-left, when needed.

In the 1934 World Cup, which was hosted by Italy, Meazza appeared in every game for the Azzurri. On 25 March 1934 in Milan, Italy beat Greece 4–0 in a qualifying match with two goals coming from Meazza. He then scored the final goal in their 7–1 victory over the United States in the 89th minute in their World Cup opener. In the game against Spain, Giovanni Ferrari scored a goal against Ricardo Zamora after the latter was supposedly fouled by Meazza. Meazza was himself almost knocked unconscious by a collision of heads with Jacinto Quincoces during the game. The game ended 1–1 and had to be settled the next day. Forty-three thousand screaming Italian fans witnessed Meazza score from a corner sent in by Raimundo Orsi in the 11th minute. Meazza took another nasty hit when he crashed into the desperate keeper. It was the only goal of the game. There were claims that the replacement Spanish goalkeeper, Juan José Nogués, who was replacing the injured Zamora after he was hurt in a clash with Schiavio in the first game, was fouled by Meazza in the play. However, footage exists that exonerates the Italian of any wrongdoing. Meazza only ever scored one time against Zamora, in a friendly match.

The semi-final was against the Wunderteam, managed by Hugo Meisl and with Josef Bican of Rapid Vienna and Matthias Sindelar of FK Austria, two of the world’s finest players, Austria was widely considered the strongest continental side and had already beaten the Italians 4–2 in Turin only four months earlier. A deluge a few hours before kick-off left the San Siro pitch resembling a bog, but Meazza, who knew this ground better than anybody on the Italian team, made light of the conditions to book his country's place in the final. Playing his fourth game in a week, Meazza out-played an Austrian forward, dribbled past him, then collided into the grounded Austrian goalkeeper, Peter Platzer, who had pounced on the ball to quell the attack. The ball came loose, hit the post and bounced to Enrique Guaita, to score the only goal of the match.[1] [2]

55,000 fans turned out to see the final against Czechoslovakia in Rome's Stadio Nazionale PNF. Italy suffered badly after Meazza was injured in a tackle. He soldiered on though. Cries of a conspiracy were heard in the 54th minute after Meazza, who was playing in the final even though carrying an injury from the semifinals, punched Rudolf Krčil in the liver in retaliation for a hard foul, without being disciplined by referee Ivan Eklind, who had also officiated the semi-final. After ninety minutes the two teams were 1–1. Italy, though, was in far more trouble as the game went into extra time, until Meazza became the inspirer again. His injury became a mixed blessing as the Czechs did not bother to mark him and he made them rue that decision. In the 96th minute, Eraldo Monzeglio sent a long ball to the hobbled Meazza from the right side of the Italian defence. Meazza, who was being left alone on the wing to drift in and out of the match, recovered sufficiently enough to send a slicing pass to Guaita that unlocked the Czech defense, and then went about setting a series of blocks to free up his strikers. The Roma midfielder slid the ball to Schiavio, who hit a snap-shot past Frantisek Planicka, another legendary goalkeeper of the era, for the winner five minutes into the extra period. Meazza was elected into the All-Star Team of the tournament and won The Golden Ball, the award presented to the best player at each FIFA World Cup finals.[1] [2]

After the World Cup victory, Meazza represented Italy against England in the ""Battle of Highbury"", the Azzurri's first game since winning the World Cup five months earlier. England and Italy had drawn, 1–1, 18 months earlier in Rome, in their only previous meeting. The game started terribly for the Azzurri. After losing Monti to a broken foot in the 2nd minute, England were leading three goals to nil by the 12th with two goals from Eric Brook and one from Ted Drake. With no substitutes allowed in those days, the Italians had to play the rest of the game with ten men. They lost the game; however, Meazza salvaged some pride by scoring two goals four minutes apart, in the 58th and 62nd minute in very heavy rain to make it 3–2. The first was the result from a skillful move by Guaita that set Meazza free to crown the straggling raid with a fine rocket shot that beat the goalie. The second on a header after he made the most of a free-kick from Attilio Ferraris. He was only denied an equalizer by the woodwork and by some fine saves by England's goalkeeper, Frank Moss who playing in what was to be his last international; Meazza described one of his misses as one of the worst moments of his career.[1] [2]

On 9 December 1934 against Hungary, Meazza scored his 25th goal (in 29 games) with the blue jersey, to tie Adolfo Baloncieri as top goalscorer for the national team. In the next game against France he had another two goals, which allowed him to jump in command of the ranking. In 1935 he claimed the Central European International Cup again.

In the 1938 World Cup hosted by France, Meazza captained Italy, again playing in every match. The Italian team had extra pressure to win the World Cup. Dictator Benito Mussolini laid down the gauntlet by sending Meazza a telegram engraved with the words: ""Win or die!"".

After what turned out to be their toughest game of the tournament in the opener against Norway (Italy won 2–1 in extra time) Meazza petitioned Vittorio Pozzo, to allow the team a night off to relax. In his wisdom, Pozzo saw that his players needed to unwind after having trained for so long in preparation of the tournament and allowed the players a night of indulgence. Meazza was reported to have spent the night with two beautiful French girls.

Another of his memorable moments in that tournament was the goal he scored against Brazil in the semi-final. Italy were awarded a penalty after Silvio Piola, the team's new center forward, was chopped down in the box by ""the Divine Master"", Domingos da Guia. The Brazilian goalkeeper Walter, who was famous for hypnotizing his opponents and for saving penalties back in Brazil, arrogantly claimed he was certain he would save the shot. Meazza made no fuss, but as he stepped up to take the kick, his shorts fell down because the elastic around the waist had earlier been pulled and ripped by a defender. Meazza, without letting this stress him, pulled up his shorts with one hand and shot past the confused Walter, who was still busy laughing. His celebrating team-mates surrounded him until a new pair of shorts were produced. The goal sent Italy into their second consecutive World Cup final. It was his last goal for Italy.[1] [2]

In the final, the Italians faced Hungary, a surprise package, playing a similar brand of flowing football to that of the Wunderteam. With the Italians having defeated France, home fans were well and truly behind the Magyars and hoped they could spring a surprise, but Italy's dynamic inside-forward partnership of Meazza and Giovanni Ferrari, took hold of the game. Meazza set up goals for Silvio Piola and Gino Colaussi before halftime. The first assist he gave came after a quick exchange with Colaussi, who put Italy up 1–0. The next assist came after he faked a shot, making his defender jump past him, and dribbled past another defender, before sending in a quick pass on the ground for Piola to slam home. Ten minutes before half, after another quick exchange between Ferrari and Meazza, the latter found the unmarked Colaussi with a pass, and the winger netted his second of the game to make it 3–1 at the break. After the tournament, Piola, who scored five goals in France, paid his colleague the compliment of being responsible for his own good performance: ""At the FIFA World Cup, I mainly lived off Meazza and Ferrari"".[2] "

 

[Ecstatic]

Don't know if you've read Calcio. One of the best books on Italian football but Meazza is usually considered head and shoulders above any italian and that includes Baggio.

Albert is a very similar style attacking midfielder to Kaka but I think he's better technically. Rivera is more a silky style 10 rather than one who relies heavily on his dribbling ability to run at heart of defences... I too would place him above Kaka. Albert for me is a personal favourite though.. so underrated.

Sure, Rivera is a wonderful player: his lack of pace was his only weakness and the competition was tough with V.Mazzola to be the main playmaker of Italy.

 

[Theon]

Rivera was clearly better than Mazzola in my opinion and I don't think there's anything between him and Baggio - though like Mazzola, Baggio was a slightly different type of player than Rivera.

I think realistically in terms of overall reputation Meazza has to take the mantle as the best of the lot, though the lack of credible footage makes it hard to confirm that status.

 

[Raees]

Obviously lack of footage means it is hard to compare Meazza with the other 10s but one indisputable fact is that leading a team to back to back world cups is incredibly difficult in any era.. even Pele and Maradona struggled to pull it off. This in addition to the fact that the other great Italian 10s have all been abit mentally fragile and choked or failed for one reason or another at the final hurdle means he has the best mentality of any attacking footballer from Italy.. a guy who is peerless on the big occasion.

For me he should be rated a lot higher when we discuss the greatest of all time because he's pulled off achievements which even Cruyff for example came nowhere near pulling off.

 

[Gio]

Do you not see a clear gap in Riva vs Griezmann and the respective threat up front?

I've no doubt personally that Nesta/Vasovic (which is the better defensive pairing anyway) will have an easier time than McGrath/Bossis - even beyond the quality differential, Riva offers a level of penetration and movement thats on another level to Griezmann and IMO that threat in behind the defence is something both teams need stylistically given the passing quality on show.

Yeah sure agreed with that, but I didn't think the match would be decided up front given the calibre of both central defences.

Don't know if you've read Calcio. One of the best books on Italian football but Meazza is usually considered head and shoulders above any italian and that includes Baggio.

Albert is a very similar style attacking midfielder to Kaka but I think he's better technically. Rivera is more a silky style 10 rather than one who relies heavily on his dribbling ability to run at heart of defences... I too would place him above Kaka. Albert for me is a personal favourite though.. so underrated.

Aye it's a good read. @Theon I'd agree with Rivera over Sandro Mazzola based on what I've seen. It's a big shame that Valcareggi never managed to find space for the pair of them in his teams. That was a golden generation that could potentially have done even better.

 

[Tuppet]

Where would you rate Pirlo among all those Italian playmakers ?

 

[Ecstatic]

In the category 'central midfielder' - deeplying playmaker imho.

Defensive midfielders: Tardelli, Bulgarelli, Benetti...
Central midfielders: Pirlo, Antognigni, Albertini...
AM: Rivera, Mazzola...
FWD: Baggio, Meazza..