The Euro Draft - Round 1 - Aldo vs Skizzo

Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match


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Balu

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All players shall be judged only on their performances at the tournaments (From 1927 to 1960 the CEICs, from 1960 to 2012 the Euros). Please take this into account before voting. You can read up on the theme by clicking here.
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Team Aldo:
The team will be taking its inspiration from that fantastic Spanish team in the EURO 2008, that started their national domination. The recent Spanish national team has usually been known to adapt the Barcelona tiki taka tactics and rather turn that into a very conservative possession based football. It is important that you remember that before Spain did that, they won a European Championship playing fantastic attacking football, while still adhering to the discipline of accurate crisp passing and movement. It was this team that dazzled Austria and Switzerland in the summer of 2008, and this is how we intend to play.

The formation is quite similar, a 4-4-2/4-2-2-2. Going from back to front, the back 4 has a unit which has proven themselves at the Euros. The CB duo of Bossis and Happel will guard the goal. Two exceptionally intelligent defenders, capable of reading the game like an open book will look to cut off the threat before it becomes a danger. Happel would be more probable of the two to go into hard challenges and physical duos, while having the frenchman for cover. They'll be flanked by two German legends, Manfred Kaltz and Phillip Lahm. Both are wonderful defenders, with excellent positioning and concentration, in turn rarely getting beaten in a 1v1, while also providing considerable threat going forward. No one can forget Lahm's sensational match winner against Turkey in the 2008 semi final and Kaltz is known for being one of the best crossers of all time from the fullback position. They'll join the attack regularly and look to provide the service.

Important Fact - all four of the defenders are extremely comfortable on the ball, all possessing the ability to beat a man as well as spray the ball around. This is crucial when building a side similar to that Spanish team, even if they were not the boring possession machine that they were two years later. With defenders of that high ability on the ball, there would rarely be any mispasses that the opponent can take advantage of, the ball would be quickly moved around and sent into space as soon as its spotted.

The four man midfield starts with the CM duo of Xavi and Cocu, two players are accustomed to the same style and brand of football, with goes perfectly with the style of this team, they will dominate most midfields they come up against. It's not just the fact that they can keep the ball till eternity, that is not the instruction to them even if they can, it's the fact that both can use it to provide crunching blows to the opposition. Xavi was phenomenal in the Euro 2008, which is why a team that is a tribute to them is built around him, their best player. Both are incredibly all round players, putting great shifts defensively and capable of turning defense to attack in an instant. Naturally, Cocu is the more defensive partner, while Xavi takes control of the game and pulls the strings.

Out wide, they have two EURO legends in Andres Iniesta and Pavel Nedved. Both the players have multiple Euros under their belt where they were fantastic. The Iniesta that destroyed teams in the 2012 edition is the one playing here, often allowing people to click photos with him being hounded by 5 or so players, he was simply unplayable back then. he will be instrumental in combining with Xavi and controlling the game. He can drop deep, or stay forward, depending on the nature of play. That tournament was his peak in the Spanish shirt and earned him a third place in the Ballon D'or, and him playing in that form is absolute trouble for the opposition. We basically have the peak Xavi and peak Iniesta, while talking of their national careers, playing with an attacking intent, it is going to be great. You'll have opponents chasing shadows when these two combine those performances and take the opponents out of the game right in the middle of the park, like they've done so often.

Nedved on the other side is not a slouch, one of the most versatile and complete players ever, Nedved put tremendous shifts in the Czech midfields time and again and is a true national legend. Here he is driving forward from the right. What he brings? He will keep the ball as well as anyone, I can see him sync beautifully into that Spanish system, a role that David Silva - a very similar player offensively, played. His creativity would be influential in the game, and when he comes infield and joins the midfield, it allows Iniesta to take a free role and run rings around the opponents. It works similar the other way as well, Iniesta joins the midfield to control the game, and the Czech Fury is unleashed with his powerful running and the dangerous shooting ability.

All in all, the midfield has 4 really complete players, which is vital for this team. All 4 will contribute both offensively and defensively to crucial effect and have the background and performances to work seamlessly together. There will be a lot of cohesion and synergy between the four, and there's proven chemistry of Xavi and Iniesta, one of the greatest duos ever. It will almost certainly hand us the control, and give us a massive advantage. AGAIN - This is not the "pointless possession" you may confuse this style with, we see an opening we take our chance, and do that over and over. The passing will be incisive, swift and crisp with fantastic movement and workrate from everyone and that will open the opponents up over 90 minutes, we are sure of that. It is certain that there will be truckloads of great chances created by this unit, even without what is about to follow.

Up front is another partnership, of "The Emperor" Florian Albert, and the Czech who was impossible to stop in 2004, Milan Baros. Before you go " :lol: that Liverpool flop", I'd like to remind you, his club form weighs ZERO in this game. It is only his peak for Czech Republic at the Euros that counts, and he was sensational in 2004. Anyway, Albert will be playing as the support striker off Baros, dropping into the hole. One of the most elegant players you will see, he lit up the stage with his tremendous dribbling ability at devastating pace, technical brilliant and superb passing, like the rest of the team. Baros would be more in charge of finishing the chances created by the midfield, what he does best. Albert will be playing as a forward, there is no need for him to drop deep and help out the midfield, he has the complete freedom to influence play in the final third either creating a chance or scoring one himself. His goal record is insane, anyway. Both have tremendous tremendous pace and acceleration to burn, and that will punish the slightest of mistakes. That and the fact that you need something special to take the ball from Albert when he's flying past players.

Against Skizzo and Pat Mustard's team, which doesn't have much natural threat out wide, the fullbacks will be instructed to overlap whenever they see the chance and stretch the opponent. Both Happel and Bossis are versatile defenders and can easily come forward to cover in case there is a problem. Overall the whole team will play close to each other, suffocating any space and maintaining possession while looking to attack. Cocu, Bossis and Happel are all brilliant readers of the game and that will be invaluable while playing against a cultured playmaker like Netzer.

I've explaining the qualities of our midfield in depth, and they will all be of use great in this game. I've added truckloads of creativity, flair, passing ability in midfield, and while he has a very competitive midfield, it will be very difficult to cut the supply to the front two. Xavi is quite comfortably the best central midfielder on the pitch, and there's a bit of gulf in quality there which is highly to my advantage.

The front two is packed with tremendous pace and goal scoring ability, and will be fed the ball throughout the game, which again is a nice weapon to hold and should be a bit of a bother for their CB duo.

I love the all roundedness, versatility, completeness, whichever way you might wanna put it, of this team. It is something I look at have whenever I build a fantasy team and I've always believed it makes a huge difference. Even in this game where we are judging players based on a handful of performance, I have Iniesta who played both on the left and the right, Nedved who did the same and both equally capable of joining the midfield or driving forward in attack. That adds so much balance to the whole scheme and makes this work. Bossis is known to cover for an attacking fullback (Amoros). All the players just seem to fit in the system without having to sacrifice anything that made them so legendary, which makes this final team really well functioning and capable of combing beautifully to provide some quality entertainment. I hope this attempt makes sense to you and you can see what I am trying to implement. Whether it will work or not, is up to you to decide, but it is more important that I can successfully share my vision for this team with you. Thanks for reading. :)



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Balu

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Team Skizzo:

The Team
Our team will be lining up in a 4-4-2 diamond formation. Rinat Datsayev will be our man between the sticks. The back four is made up of Robert Jarni, Ferran Olivella, Jan Popluhar, and Sergio Ramos.

In Midfield we have Luis Monti, Rainer Bonhof, Frank Arnesen and Gunter Netzer. All four players are comfortable on the ball, and Monti, Bonhof, and Arnesen all work hard defensively and will press the opposition.

The front two is made up of a deadly unit, consisting of Davor Suker and Marco Van Basten. Both link up play very well, and are clinical strikers. Based on Euro performances, Suker, Van Basten, and Netzer are a handful for any defence.


Why we would win

We have the set up to get the best out of our most critical players. Based on Euro performances, Van Basten and Netzer are two of the best players available. With Arnesen offering width on the right, Jarni attacking space on the left when available, and a hard working midfield behind...Netzer is free to control the game. He'll be looking to get involved, roaming into pockets of space, and picking the opposition apart. Cocu and Xavi would struggle to come to grips with Netzer's ability to control the attack. Ahead of him, he has two attackers who are capable of linking up, finding space, and taking any half chance they get. To sum it up, we have too many dangerous outlets to be able to stifle our goal scoring threat.

On the defensive side, we'll look to cut off the channels, and limit the space. Nedved offers the only real wide threat, and with most of the play through the middle, it will play into where we have the most bodies. Xavi and Iniesta will enjoy Nedved and Albert's movement, but we have a defensive unit who are capable of matching the runs wide, and can read the game well enough to not be dragged out of position to create openings. Olivella and Popluhar are both leaders at the back, and will keep an organized defence.

Keepers don't seem to make much of a difference in these matches either, but Datsayev is the second best Russian keeper of all time, only behind Yashin.

Videos, further tactics, and some player profiles will be provided within the match.

Good luck Aldo!

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Good luck @Aldo @Skizzo @Pat_Mustard
 

Balu

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@Edgar Allan Pillow told me that you two are the best mods around, would one of you please add the poll to the thread. Thank you very much.

@Rado_N @Damien

Question:
Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?

- Team Aldo
- Team Skizzo
- Withdraw vote

Poll for 24hrs. Public Poll. View results without voting. Can change votes.
 

antohan

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BTW @Pat_Mustard @Skizzo I don't think I've ever seen Datsayev, Dassaev or Dasayev, but no idea where the t came up.

As it stands, probably the third best player in your team. First you can't see past Netzer-van Basten, but when you manage to do it it's a bit of a mish mash while @Aldo looks brilliant across the board. Happel for Carvalho instead of going for a no-mark striker was a great coup.
 

Raees

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@Aldo ... considering people were saying you half arsed your way through that was a very well crafted write up and that side would be so gorgeous to watch.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Cocu-Xavi is a excellant midfield, but I think they'll struggle against the one they are facing here and definitely not in a 4-4-2 set up. I reckon Also will be better off in a 4-1-3-2 set up, with Cocu addina layer against against Netzer thereby reducing the defensive load for Xavi giving him more freedom link with Iniesta/Nedved in supporting the attack.

Rather than how the arrows on Nedved indicate, I think he's better off in a traditional winger trying to take Jarni on and exploit spaces behind him on the counter. If he moves to the middle, it'll just congest the area with not much impact imo.

On the other side, Netzer-Suker-MvB is a mouth watering attack. Always thought Bonhof was a right midfielder. How comfortable was he on the left @Balu ? Especially with a attacking Jarni, you need someone to step in against a counter, esp as Nedved is roaming about there. Monti should suffice there and think Arnesan should do well there.

I think Skizzo's midifled is not balanced at all, but despite that his attack should give him the edge esp against a 4-4-2 set up.
 

Gio

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  • Love the Netzer/Van Basten axis. As Balu said it doesn't get much better than that at the Euros.
  • Not sure about the Suker/Van Basten partnership. It's fine but I don't know if Suker maximises Van Basten's talents - two no9s in some ways.
  • Underwhelmed by Skizzo's defence. What sort of player was this Olivella fella and how is he going to nip Baros in the bud?
  • Against Van Basten, I'm unconvinced by Aldo's central defence. I like Bossis, and Happel's got a good reputation, but some of the footage I've seen of him from the 1954 World Cup doesn't paint him in the best light. Lahm might have the team of the tourney nominations but his performances at the business end of the Euros have been questionable.
  • Aldo's midfield and full-backs will play some sexy possession football. A lot of cohesion and synergy there. There is a potential congestion issue as EAP says in the central attacking midfield area.
  • Monti and Arnesen are solid selections. We know what we're getting with Monti and Arnesen can do that side-central midfielder role well from what we've seen from him at the Euros in 1984.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
BTW @Pat_Mustard @Skizzo I don't think I've ever seen Datsayev, Dassaev or Dasayev, but no idea where the t came up.

As it stands, probably the third best player in your team. First you can't see past Netzer-van Basten, but when you manage to do it it's a bit of a mish mash while @Aldo looks brilliant across the board. Happel for Carvalho instead of going for a no-mark striker was a great coup.
Are you referring to Suker? Incredibly harsh if so, especially given the draft criteria. One of the best tournament strikers in international football in the 1990s, scoring 6 in 7 in WC 98 as well as his 3 in 4 in Euro 96. Scored against the eventual winners in both tournaments too. Sticking strictly to the Euros, he scored against a Smmer-lmarshalled German defence, and produced one of the best displays I've personally seen at the Euros vs Denmark. One of the best goals in the tournament's history and a brilliant through ball to win the penalty he converted. His assist for Boban demonstrates the sort of movement we'll be asking of him here - working the channels in the knowledge that Netzer will provide the through balls.

 

antohan

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Cocu-Xavi is a excellant midfield, but I think they'll struggle against the one they are facing here and definitely not in a 4-4-2 set up.
Why? Skizzopat having more defensive midfielders doesn't mean he "wins the midfield battle", Arnesen and Netzer are the dangerous ones and I think that midfield can handle them, or at least not "struggle". All four are very disciplined hard-working fellas.
 

antohan

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Aldo isnt playing carvalho? Weird.
He blew his load on Kaltz and suddenly realised he had to play a pre-66 striker, i.e. a complete no-mark by then. Opted for getting Happel and Baros instead. Right call IMO.
 

Raees

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Arnesen is the 8 in the bottom video.. looks a class player.
 

Joga Bonito

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Aldo isnt playing carvalho? Weird.
He needed a pre 66 player so he dropped Carvalho for Happel, who is a very good defender himself. Don't know much about his CEIC performances though, naturally.

Always thought Bonhof was a right midfielder. How comfortable was he on the left @Balu ? Especially with a attacking Jarni, you need someone to step in against a counter, esp as Nedved is roaming about there. Monti should suffice there and think Arnesan should do well there.
Bonhof was versatile and could play as a LM/LCM too. He is perfect for the LCM role here, as the more defensive presence complementing Jarni's adventurous play on the left flank and also balances out Arnesen's occasional forays into the right wing. Bonhof himself, is also capable of driving into the left wing/forward when needed, although that probably wouldn't be his prime responsibility here. He is also ideally suited to keeping an eye on Nedved's runs on the left wing and not let him run rampant.

I think Skizzo's midifled is not balanced at all
Why do you have that opinion? I think it's very well balanced with the right amount of defensive solidity and with the likes of Arnesen and Bonhof complementing Netzer very well, whilst also possessing fine wing presence themselves. You can see them replicating the Wimmer(defensive box to box)-Netzer-Hoeneß(more offensive wide box to box) combo pretty well here (different set-ups though but the point being that they complement Netzer well).

That being said, I would have preferred a more mobile striker/wing-forward than Suker there. Don't get me wrong, he is a fine technician and is capable of doing his work on the wings/channels when required (very underrated in this aspect). He would link up well with Netzer and VB as well but a more pacy foil there would have been preferable imo, esp for Netzer who thrived playing alongside pacy wide forwards in general. That is my only slight criticism of Skizz/Pat's team. Other than that it's pretty much spot on, as is Aldo's team. Very hard to separate them both right now.
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow

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Why? Skizzopat having more defensive midfielders doesn't mean he "wins the midfield battle", Arnesen and Netzer are the dangerous ones and I think that midfield can handle them, or at least not "struggle". All four are very disciplined hard-working fellas.
It's more on tactics than personnal. 4-4-2 is not a formation for midfield domination. I think Cocu will have to prioritize Netzer when Skizzo has the ball and from a purely defensive point of view, I think Xavi is not whom I would want there in that situation. Nedved in a midfield central role will help, but here he's caught between pulling back for defence vs trying to exploit space behind Jarni for counter. Skizzo will definitely find it easy to retain possession, imo...not something to look forward when they have Netzer/MvB.
 

antohan

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Arnesen is the 8 in the bottom video.. looks a class player.
Rubbish clips to be honest, not in any way the player I remember. A very good one, who suited that Danish team really well. It's odd, because the second clip actually shows him ambling around, when his trademark was providing very direct and vertical dribbling.
 

antohan

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I think it's well balanced with the right amount of defensive solidity and with the likes of Arnesen and Bonhof complementing Netzer very well, with both having fine wing presence. You can see them replicating the Wimmer(defensive box to box)-Netzer-Hoeneß(more offensive wide box to box) pretty well.

That being said I would have preferred a more mobile striker/wing-forward than Suker there. Don't get me wrong, he is a fine technician and is capable of doing his work on the wings/channels when required (very underrated in this aspect). He would link up well with Netzer and VB as well but a more pacy foil there would have been preferable imo, esp for Netzer who thrived playing alongside pacy wide forwards in general. That is my only slight criticism of Skizz/Pat's team. Other than that it's pretty much spot on, as is Aldo's team. Very hard to separate them both right now.
Agree on the balance in midfield and Suker not being the best foil there. Where I disagree is that Aldo's defence is distinctly better to Skizzo's IMO.
 

Raees

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  • To stop Van Basten, Suker and Netzer... you need a all-time, world-class defence. I don't think Aldo's defence as good as it is can contain that threat, 2/3 of that trio are final ready and Suker is brilliant at this level.
  • The midfield battle is tough to call... you have three world class players plus a solid 4th in Cocu vs greats in Monti/Netzer and solid players such as Bonhof/Arnesen. I think a Xmas tree formation with Cocu at the base with Xavi and Iniesta either side, with Albert/Nedved behind Baros would force that duo to focus more on scoring goals rather than joining in with the midfield battle too much. Either way I think Aldo edges possession here but Skizzo has the more direct players in his midfield and a more incisive duo up top.
  • Skizzo's defence is weak but I don't think Ramos for example would struggle in this match up, he isn't really up against any dribblers and Albert/Nedved are going to have to beat the likes of Bonhof/Monti to get at that defence which is a difficult task.
Although my heart is with Aldo's side, I think Skizzo's team is tactically superior.
 

Raees

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Rubbish clips to be honest, not in any way the player I remember. A very good one, who suited that Danish team really well. It's odd, because the second clip actually shows him ambling around, when his trademark was providing very direct and vertical dribbling.
It is all I could find Anto, feel free to post some longer ones.. I'd love to know more about him.
The video's do however demonstrate that he has an eye for goal and is very composed in the box.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Why? Skizzopat having more defensive midfielders doesn't mean he "wins the midfield battle", Arnesen and Netzer are the dangerous ones and I think that midfield can handle them, or at least not "struggle". All four are very disciplined hard-working fellas.
Yeah, we're not going to argue for midfield supremacy vs Xaviesta and Cocu supported by Nedved. We do feel we can be competitive enough to give our attack a platform to shine though. @Joga Bonito has saved me a lengthy post by articulating the midfield balance we feel we've achieved. Where I think Xavi and Cocu could struggle, and what Edgar might be referring to, is Netzer's power on the ball. He might have been lazy, but he was a big, strong fecker as well as being incredibly skillful:


4:28 onwards here - Xavi and Cocu might struggle to contain that physical strength.
 

antohan

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It's more on tactics than personnal. 4-4-2 is not a formation for midfield domination.
Both teams are playing four midfielders. If he were facing a packed midfield I would get your point, but while Skizzo's is balanced overall with clearly defined roles, Aldo's has more creative punch and more disciplined pressing across all four players.

I think Cocu will have to prioritize Netzer when Skizzo has the ball and from a purely defensive point of view, I think Xavi is not whom I would want there in that situation.
I don't get this. Cocu will prioritise Netzer, obviously. Xaviesta will have to keep tabs on Arnesen, very much the same way they did against better midfields. Nedved tucks in to keep tabs on Bonhof. Sorted, what's the perilous situation they can't deal with here?

Nedved in a midfield central role will help, but here he's caught between pulling back for defence vs trying to exploit space behind Jarni for counter. Skizzo will definitely find it easy to retain possession, imo...not something to look forward when they have Netzer/MvB.
Don't understand why Nedved gets caught between two things when one is with ball and the other is without it. In any case, I don't think Pavel Nedved needs to "exploit space behind Jarni" when he can just beat him fair and square 1-to-1.
 

antohan

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It is all I could find Anto, feel free to post some longer ones.. I'd love to know more about him.
The video's do however demonstrate that he has an eye for goal and is very composed in the box.
As goal compilations usually do. It's not a criticism of your efforts, just thought it was worth pointing out those clips are not a great representation of him as a player.

I know it's hard to find better clips, I wanted to pick him in an earlier draft once and gave up when I realised there was no way to show how he played except asking people to go watch games. Good luck with that... Ultimately, I didn't feel strongly enough about him to go through the usual "Anto is selling X like he is Messi" :rolleyes:
 

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Aldo wants to replicate Spain 2008 but important part of that team was Senna playing the anchor role in front of the defense. Cocu may be the more defensive minded of his duo but he is not the man I would choose to play the Senna role. Given's Skizzo's central threat, that is one kind of player Aldo lacks the most as well.
 

Raees

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As goal compilations usually do. It's not a criticism of your efforts, just thought it was worth pointing out those clips are not a great representation of him as a player.

I know it's hard to find better clips, I wanted to pick him in an earlier draft once and gave up when I realised there was no way to show how he played except asking people to go watch games. Good luck with that... Ultimately, I didn't feel strongly enough about him to go through the usual "Anto is selling X like he is Messi" :rolleyes:
Yep, really does require putting the hard yards in and watching full games tbh which is unfair to expect of the other managers let alone scan voters. Anyway a decent write up below for those who thought he was just a scout for Chelsea.

Frank Arnesen

Frank Arnesen was an intimidating player to be put out against. An incontrollable midfielder sourrounded by an astonishing enigma of pace and aggression, he made defenders suffer at the mercy of his feet.

Sadly he endured a career marred by a injury problems. Specifically his right knee caused him a whole world of trouble and it is very likely that we would have seen way more of this player on the world's greatest pitches if not for the many, many injuries he received through an otherwise impressive career which saw him start out with local club Fremad Amager where he formed a formidable partnership with Søren Lerby. Both players moved on to Ajax Amsterdam before Valencia CF in 1981 snapped up Frank. He was often injured and only appeared briefly in his two seasons in Spain but still made a considerable mark with 10 goals in 32 league apparences before visionary Anderlecht scooped him up in 1983. He spent two years in Anderlecht's great team of the eighties also featuring fellow Danes Morten Olsen, Per Frimann and Henrik Andersen before he in 1985 returned to Holland and PSV Eindhoven. As a pattern throughout his whole career, Arnesen would be indomitable once fit enough to play but enjoyed such luxury all too seldomly.

Arnesen had up to Mexico '86 been out with injuries as usual but came lucky as Per Frimann had to pull out of what seemed like a certain starting position in the first XI with a serious ankle injury sustained in a training game. Frank grabbed his chance in what would be the finest hour of his career. After a stale performance against Scotland he showed his worth tenfold in the 6-1-trashing of Uruguay, time and time against tearing apart the Uruguayan defense with his pace. In the final group game against West Germany, he once again played terrific but sadly received a red card by the end of the game after having retaliated against the tackling Lothar Matthäus. This has often been pointed out as one of the key elements in the subsequent downfall as Denmark, firm favourites to win the title after comfortably topping the Group of Death, crashed out with 5-1-defeat to Spain, lacking the prowess of Arnesen's ignited runs and ability to control the pace of the game.

Following the World Cup, Arnesen continued playing until 1988 where he retired as the injuries proved too much of a toll on him. He was a part of the PSV Eindhoven squad which won the European Cup that year but as almost always, Arnesen was unable to play in the final. Following his playing career, he became a respected talent scout discovering the likes of Ronaldo and Romario while working for PSV. He is now infamously sporting director of Chelsea FC and possibly the man standing closest to Roman Abramovich.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
  • Love the Netzer/Van Basten axis. As Balu said it doesn't get much better than that at the Euros.
  • Not sure about the Suker/Van Basten partnership. It's fine but I don't know if Suker maximises Van Basten's talents - two no9s in some ways.
  • Underwhelmed by Skizzo's defence. What sort of player was this Olivella fella and how is he going to nip Baros in the bud?
  • Against Van Basten, I'm unconvinced by Aldo's central defence. I like Bossis, and Happel's got a good reputation, but some of the footage I've seen of him from the 1954 World Cup doesn't paint him in the best light. Lahm might have the team of the tourney nominations but his performances at the business end of the Euros have been questionable.
  • Aldo's midfield and full-backs will play some sexy possession football. A lot of cohesion and synergy there. There is a potential congestion issue as EAP says in the central attacking midfield area.
  • Monti and Arnesen are solid selections. We know what we're getting with Monti and Arnesen can do that side-central midfielder role well from what we've seen from him at the Euros in 1984.
Fair comments all around. I understand that not everyone will be as hot on the Suker/Van Basten combo as me - I'm basing my hopes for it partly on Suker elevating the quality of his approach play in Euro 96 (and international football in general imo as opposed to his often quite lazy club style).

Olivella seems to have been a solid out and out defender who never ventured forward. Doesn't seem to have done much wrong from the little footage I've found of Spain's Euro '64 campaign, and is a Barca legend, playing 500 games for them. From their website:

He was a defender on a grand scale; secure, simple and with excellent positioning.

He arrived as a young player in 1956, and in the following season he formed part of Doménec Balmanya’s team which also included Vergés, Gensana and Coll. It didn’t take him long to firmly establish himself as a first team regular (42 games in his first season) at full back. Later on, apart from the season of 1963-64, he took up the role of centre back and achieved the same success.

He was captain of the Spanish national team which won the European cup in 1964. Years later, between 1989 and 1993, he was on the board of directors with Josep Lluis Nuñez.
I've read elsewhere he was a bit on the slow side, so I'm imagining a less-rapid Puyol. He's probably our least convincing pick to be honest, but I think its not beyond the realms of credibility to paint him as a good centre back who replicated his club form on the Euro stage. I'm not going to make any grand claims beyond that.

As regards dealing with Baros, Popluhar is the senior partner in that central defence, and they're both helped by Aldo's goalscoring threat being quite concentrated in Baros. Nedved was a fantastic player but his goalscoring pedigree isn't mindblowing - 1 in 4.5 matches for the Czech Republic and 1 in 12 in the Euro finals I think. Albert was a much greater goal threat with 31 in 75 for Hungary, but if my facts are right he didn't score in 4 Euro finals appearances, and I'm unsure if he really replicated his WC form in the Euros?
 

antohan

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Yeah, we're not going to argue for midfield supremacy vs Xaviesta and Cocu supported by Nedved. We do feel we can be competitive enough to give our attack a platform to shine though. @Joga Bonito has saved me a lengthy post by articulating the midfield balance we feel we've achieved. Where I think Xavi and Cocu could struggle, and what Edgar might be referring to, is Netzer's power on the ball. He might have been lazy, but he was a big, strong fecker as well as being incredibly skillful:


4:28 onwards here - Xavi and Cocu might struggle to contain that physical strength.
You are not giving Cocu enough credit there, although I would agree everyone would be happier seeing some monster DM dealing with him. You could make similar argument though re: can Sergio Ramos live with Iniesta? or Jarni with Nedved?

I guess the main difference in perceptions going around is that I see Aldo's front two a fair distance above your CB pair, while everyone ignores that and focuses on a much tighter comparison of two greats (Happel and Bossis) with the ultimate Euro striker and his very good but not very complementary striker.
 

antohan

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Aldo wants to replicate Spain 2008 but important part of that team was Senna playing the anchor role in front of the defense. Cocu may be the more defensive minded of his duo but he is not the man I would choose to play the Senna role. Given's Skizzo's central threat, that is one kind of player Aldo lacks the most as well.
Yes crappy, we all know you got Senna at the death, well done :p

It's fair to say Cocu isn't the most obvious replacement for Senna, more like a Busquets, but I don't think it impairs how the setup mirrors that, often with even better players than the original ones.
 

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Yes crappy, we all know you got Senna at the death, well done :p

It's fair to say Cocu isn't the most obvious replacement for Senna, more like a Busquets, but I don't think it impairs how the setup mirrors that, often with even better players than the original ones.
I don't mind Cocu here at all. I was really hoping Aldo would pick Zakarias though. He's a bit underrated from that golden Hungarian side, but he played that holding role next to Bozsik brilliantly. Would have been a fantastic fit and helped Aldo with the pre-66 quota.
 

antohan

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I don't mind Cocu here at all. I was really hoping Aldo would pick Zakarias though. He's a bit underrated from that golden Hungarian side, but he played that holding role next to Bozsik brilliantly. Would have been a fantastic fit and helped Aldo with the pre-66 quota.
Good call. I wondered why there was no further pillaging of that Hungarian side but never looked into the detail of who could have used them. Great fit indeed.
 

MJJ

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He needed a pre 66 player so he dropped Carvalho for Happel, who is a very good defender himself. Don't know much about his CEIC performances though, naturally.
He blew his load on Kaltz and suddenly realised he had to play a pre-66 striker, i.e. a complete no-mark by then. Opted for getting Happel and Baros instead. Right call IMO.
Cheers guys, carvalho would have been perfect for our team. If only he had remembered sooner :(
 

Gio

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Good call. I wondered why there was no further pillaging of that Hungarian side but never looked into the detail of who could have used them. Great fit indeed.
With the competition divvying up the spoils in midfield and attack, I was wondering if someone would go for the Lorant/Grosics axis which seems to be highly rated if not exactly watertight. But feck knows I haven't seen a lot of them in a defensive capacity.
 

MJJ

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On topic, I really dont like seeing baros as a striker. I know he won the golden boot in 04 but how much of that was due to him being part of an extremely attacking and flexible setup as opposed to what aldo is playing here? And if memory serves, the spain of 08 played much better with one striker rather than two. They needed an extra midfielder to retain possession and dominate.