The Euro Draft - Round 1 - crappy vs Pedro

Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
All players shall be judged only on their performances at the tournaments (From 1927 to 1960 the CEICs, from 1960 to 2012 the Euros). Please take this into account before voting. You can read up on the theme by clicking here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Team crappy

Tactics

- Platini reprises his role as false 9 in a 4 man midfield. His Euro 84 performance is simply unmatched by anyone in this draft. This was Platini at his absolute peak. Around this time
  • He won 3 Ballon'dors in a row (83,84,85)
  • Serie A golden boot (83,84,85)
  • Euros 84 winner and top scorer
  • 84/85 European cup with Juventus (top scorer for Juve)
- Platini is supported by his French 84 teammate Tigana. Tigana had the best phase of his career in 84, finishing second behind Platini in Ballon'dor. Tardelli another player who has proven chemistry with Platini plays the role of anchor in front of the defense. Finally you have Ceulemans to complete the midfield in an attacking intelligent midfielder to compliment Platini's role as false 9. All 4 are hard working midfielders. Ceuelmans is capable of taking up the central role himself if Platini vacates it to go deep or up front. Tardelli may not get to play his pure box to box role but will still be in his element in defensive battle in the middle of the park. Tigana's synergy with Platini is proven without any doubt.

- Figo, twice part of Euros all star team, will play the traditional winger role on the right. Antonin Puc, regarded as the best winger Czechs produced before Nedved, will play the left winger/forward role. Both Figo and Puc have the ability to stay out wide when Platini wants to occupy the central space up front or provide a presence up front themselves if Platini drops deep.

- Krol and Vogts are the two standout names in the back four. Krol was part of 76 all star team and supposedly was the best Dutch player on display. Krol has the license to run the left wing while Vogts will play a more defensive full back role. Dellas and Rosetta form the central defensive pair. Dellas may not be a fancy name but going purely by Euros performances, he was possibly the best Greek defender on display in Euros 2004 and was rock solid for them at the back. Rosetta regarded as one of the best Italian defenders in 20s was part of the first Central European cup win by Italy and part of Juve team that won 5 consecutive league titles. Finally the final wall of defense is the the Czech goalkeeping legend - Planicka, regarded as the best keeper about in 1930s.

/edit:
For further explanation how it all works, click here to get to the post.

Key Points

- The whole team is set up to get the best out of Platini. Every single one of my front 6 suits his role as false 9 here. Platini in this role can just not be shackled by a single player or tactic since he pretty much has the license to do as he pleases. But...

- .. even without Platini, I have likes of Figo, Tigana, Ceulemans and Krol in there.

- 7 players out of my playing 11 were part of the all star team of their respective Euros. (For 3 no such all star team was made)

Read more about pre 1960's players - Virginio Rosetta, Antonin Puc, Planicka here



vs
 
Last edited:

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
Team Pedro

Tactics: My team will line up in a normal 4-3-3 formation and follow a fairly balanced possession focused approach to the game. Silva is the offensive brain of the team. He is an outstanding ball-handler, who can drift through the opposing team to pick out game deciding passes.

He is accompanied by two industrious and very hardworking defensive minded midfielder. Smistik, the heart of the Austrian “Wunderteam”, anchors the team. He´ll shield the defence and his exceptional long range of passing allows to outmanoeuvre any pressing. Igor Netto, the former captain of the USSR national football team, completes the midfield trio. Starting his career as defender he quickly developed into an outstanding central midfielder, who plays in a b2b role. He can carry the ball through midfield, hustle in defence, score or simply secure possession.

Up front Bene plays out wide, while Meazza has all freedom to drift inside to play as second striker. It will be impossible to mark him out of the game in this role. Bene was an exceptional dribbler, who was hard to contain in 1v1s. He´ll seek his luck out wide to stretch crappy´s team, while Meazza and Klinsmann will run havoc in and around the box.

In defence I have a solid stopper (Schwarzenbeck) sweeper (de Boer) partnership who´d complement each other well. They are accompanied by two versatile and highly accomplished fullbacks.

Smistik will pick up Platini if he drops back into midfield while Netto can help against Figo or close the centre. Thuram will do fine against Puc. Overall my team is well balanced and has no apparent weakness. Still Crappy has an outstanding team. While Platini is the best player on the pitch, his influence will be restricted by the Smistik.

My team has two game-changer on each side of the pitch. Schmeichel will do a 1992, while Meazza is the best forward in the draft.

-----------------------------------------------
Good luck @crappycraperson @PedroMendez
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
Crappy's infos about his pre-66 players, part1:

Antonin Puc - 6 goals in old Euros cup (3 in inaugural one when Czech finished join runner's up)

A crucial member of Czechoslovakia's 1934 World Cup final team, Antonín Puč enjoyed a prolific club career throughout the 1930s and scored more goals for the unified Czechoslovakian team than any other player. Usually playing on the left wing, he was known for his skilful dribbling and his ability to shoot early and with great accuracy, giving goalkeepers little chance to make a save.

Puč was born in the Jinonice district of Prague on 16 May 1907, and spent much of his childhood learning to play football in the streets of Prague. As a teenager, he played for the youth teams of SK Smíchov for several years before attracting the attention of Slavia Prague. When he was 18, Puč was offered the chance to move to Slavia and although his father did not want him to sign, he made the move in October 1925.

He was immediately brought into the first team. Having initially played as an inside left, it was in his early years at Slavia that Puč became a regular on the left wing. His first season of 1925-26 brought success in the Bohemian Cup, although the Slavia narrowly missed out on the league title as they finished one point behind rivals Sparta. In the summer of 1926, Puč was called into the national team for the first time at the age of just 19. He made his debut in a match against Yugoslavia in Zagreb, and managed to get on the scoresheet in a 6-2 Czechoslovakian win.

In the short 1927 league season, which was just seven games long, Puč scored 13 league goals to finish as the league's joint top scorer. Slavia however had to settle for second place again, just as they did in the following season of 1927-28, however Puč claimed two more cup winner's medals in those seasons. Title success finally came in 1928-29, with Slavia claiming the title by three clear points and Puč leading the league in goalscoring again.

Throughout the late 1920s, Puč found the net at international level with great regularity. He scored in six of his first eight international matches, and by the end of the decade he had managed 18 goals in 22 games. That total included three in the inaugural Central European International Cup where Czechoslovakia finished joint second, just a point behind champions Italy. Like many European players of his generation, he was denied the chance to play in the first World Cup in 1930 when his country chose not to travel to Uruguay.

At domestic level, success continued to come. Slavia retained their league title in 1930 with a 100% record, and completed a domestic double with a cup final victory over SK Kladno. Further titles followed in 1931, 1933 and 1934, and the disappointment of runners-up spot in 1932 was eased with yet another cup success. Later in 1934, Puč would finally get the opportunity to play on the greatest stage in the game as Czechoslovakia qualified for the World Cup finals in Italy.

The competition was a straight knockout, and in their first match it looked as though Czechoslovakia's involvement was going to be brief. They trailed 1-0 to Romania at half-time, but Puč found a crucial equalising goal shortly after half-time to drag his team back into contention. They went on to win 2-1, and gradually found their feet in the tournament. Edging past Switzerland 3-2 in the quarter-finals, they then eased through a semi-final against Germany to set up a final against the host nation.

In the final, Czechoslovakia and Italy both played positive, attacking football with Puč at the heart of most of his team's good work. With 20 minutes to go, the game was still goalless when Czechoslovakia won a corner. Puč took the kick himself, and when it was only half cleared he found himself with the ball again. With a characteristically powerful and accurate shot from a narrow angle, he beat Italian goalkeeper Gianpiero Combi to give his team the lead. Unfortunately for Puč, his team-mates missed some excellent chances to put the result beyond doubt and a late Italian equaliser forced extra-time. Italy went on to score again in the extra period, ending Czechoslovakia's hopes of becoming champions.

The disappointment of missing out on the world title was quickly overcome as Slavia won another league and cup double in 1934-35, and two years later another title gave Puč a seventh league title in just nine seasons. Entering his early 30s, Puč was still an important member of the national team and in 1938 got a chance to make up for the defeat of four years earlier when he travelled with the national team to France for his second World Cup.

The Czechoslovakian team of 1938 however was not comparable with that which had come so close to glory in 1934. After needing extra-time to get past the Netherlands in their first match, they drew with Brazil in the quarter-finals and the game went to a replay. Puč had played in each of the first two games but did not appear in the replay against Brazil, which his team lost. That would prove to be the end of his career with the Czechoslovakian team, although he did appear (and score) in one match for the 'Bohemia and Moravia' late in 1939. In all, he scored 35 goals in 61 international games - a record for Czechoslovakia and its successor states which stood until the early years of the 21st century when Jan Koller surpassed it playing for the Czech Republic.

As well as his last game for Czechoslovakia, 1938 also saw Puč leave Slavia after 13 years. In all, he scored 112 goals in 164 league games for the club, winning six Bohemian Cups and seven league titles. He spent a couple of years with Viktoria Žižkov and made a brief return to SK Smíchov before retiring from playing in 1941. After the Second World War, he had a brief managerial career with SK Nusle and Čechie Karlín before retiring from active involvement in football. Antonín Puč died in April 1988, a month before his 81st birthday.
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
Crappy's infos about his pre-66 players, part2:

Frantisek Planicka - Regarded as the best keeper about during 1930's

Few players in the history of football have made more appearances for a single club than Czech goalkeeping legend František Plánička. In a sixteen year career, he made nearly 1,000 appearances for Slavia Prague as well as amassing a then-world record number of international appearances. Renowned for his excellent reflexes and shot-stopping ability, he is considered one of the finest goalkeepers of the pre-Second World War era.

Plánička was born in Prague, at the time part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, on 2 June 1904. He would spend the majority of his career, and indeed of his life, in the city. At just 5'8" tall, Plánička was relatively short for a goalkeeper but his acrobatic displays on the pitch led to him being nicknamed 'The Cat of Prague'. As a teenager, he appeared for Slovan Praha VII, Union VII, Staroměstský SK Olympia and SK Bubeneč.

In the early 1920s Plánička attracted the attention of the leading clubs in Czechoslovakia, and was linked with both Sparta and Slavia Prague. Turning down Sparta, he eventually moved to Slavia in 1923 where he initially had to compete for the position of first choice goalkeeper with the older, more experienced Josef Štaplík. Gradually it was Plánička who became the regular starter in goal, a position which he would hold virtually unchallenged for the remainder of his career.

In 1925, Czechoslovakia's first professional league began and Plánička earned the first title of his career when Slavia claimed the championship by the narrowest of margins ahead of Sparta. He was developing a reputation as the country's leading goalkeeper, and made his debut for the national team in January 1926, in a 3-1 defeat to Italy. Slavia lost their league title in 1926, finishing a close second to Sparta, and would also finish as runners-up in each of the next two seasons, but the cup would bring more success.

From 1926 to 1928, the club enjoyed three consecutive cup wins with Plánička keeping a crucial clean sheet in the 1-0 win over Sparta in 1927. The 1928-29 season brought a second league title, and marked the beginning of the most successful period of Plánička's career. In 1929-30 they won all 14 league matches, and with Plánička in goal conceded just 13 goals in those games, a remarkably low ratio for that era. That season also saw him gain a fourth cup winner's medal after a 4-2 final victory over SK Kladno.

Moving into the 1930s, Plánička and Slavia continued to dominate football in Czechoslovakia, picking up at least on trophy every year up to 1935. They completed a hat-trick of league titles in 1931, won the cup again in 1932 and then added three more league titles from 1933 to 1935, the last of those forming part of another league and cup double. In the space of a just a decade, Plánička had won seven league titles and six domestic cups. At international level, he played in seven of Czechoslovakia's eight games in the first Central European International Cup, but the team fell just short of the title. Plánička was denied the chance to play in the first World Cup as like many European countries, Czechoslovakia declined to enter the tournament in Uruguay in 1930 but his opportunity would come four years later.

At the 1934 World Cup in Italy, Plánička was firmly established as the captain of Czechoslovakia and led his team through tough matches against Romania and Switzerland to reach the semi-finals, coming from behind each time. In the semi-final a hat-trick fromOldřich Nejedlý took Czechoslovakia through and gave Plánička the opportunity to lead his team out in the final. That match pitted him against another of the world's finest goalkeepers, Gianpiero Combi of Italy. For a long time, both men kept their goals in tact and when Czechoslovakia took the lead with 19 minutes to go it appeared that Plánička was about to get his hands on the Jules Rimet Trophy. Nine minutes from time, however, he was finally beaten and with the match going into extra-time, Italy scored again to deny Plánička and Czechoslovakia the world title.

Plánička remained a regular in the national team for the next four years, and further domestic success came with an eighth league title in 1937. In 1938, Slavia reached the final of the international club competition the Mitropa Cup, where they faced Hungarian side Ferencváros. After a 2-2 draw in the first leg, Plánička kept the Hungarians at bay in the second match where a 2-0 win gave him yet another major trophy.

1938 would also bring another opportunity for World Cup success, with a crushing 6-0 win over Bulgaria earning Czechoslovakia a place in the finals in France. Plánička was again the captain of his country, and kept his first World Cup clean sheet in the first round game against the Netherlands, which Czechoslovakia won 3-0 after extra-time. That win took them through to a quarter-final against Brazil in Bordeaux, a match which would turn out to be highly controversial and eventually prove to be the last of Plánička's international career.

The match descended into violence, with two Brazilians and one Czech being sent off and several more being injured. Plánička was one of those to suffer, ending up with a broken arm. Remarkably, he played on through the pain to earn his team a replay but was not able to play in that match and without him, Czechoslovakia lost 2-1. He would never play another international, and played on for just one more year at club level before ending his playing career in 1939 at the age of 35.

In total, Plánička played 969 matches for Slavia Prague, with the club winning more than three quarters of those games. He appeared 73 times for Czechoslovakia, more internationals than anyone else had previously managed and a national record which stood until 1966. He played 1253 games in all across his career, conceding an average of 0.86 goals per game. In his retirement, he remained fit and active and even appeared for a senior team of former internationals in 1970, at the age of 66.

Much to his sadness, Slavia struggled to recapture their glory days in the post-war era and by 1994 were approaching half a century without a title. As he turned 90, Plánička's dearest wish was to see the club win one more title before he died. In 1996, his wish came true as Slavia won their first league title since 1947. Plánička died just two months later at the age of 92. By the time of his death, he was the last survivor of the 1934 World Cup final.

Virginio 'Vin' Rosetta was an Italian defender who could play either outwide or in the middle. Played for the Italy throughout the 1920s and through the first Central European cup which they won. Was part of the Juve team that won 5 league titles in a row. An article in Italian courtesy of hams -

http://ilpalloneracconta.blogspot.ru/2008/02/virginio-rosetta.html
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
@Rado_N @Damien , could one of you please add the poll to the thread? Thanks a lot.

Question:
Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?

- Team crappy
- Team Pedro
- Draw

Poll for 24hrs. Public Poll. View results without voting. Can change votes.
 

Rado_N

Yaaas Broncos!
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
111,171
Location
Manchester
@Rado_N @Damien , could one of you please add the poll to the thread? Thanks a lot.

Question:
Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?

- Team crappy
- Team Pedro
- Draw

Poll for 24hrs. Public Poll. View results without voting. Can change votes.
Done.
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
Wasn't Ceulemans similar to Platini? Not sure I like him in that role. He could be a false 9 himself and struggling to see how he'll work with Platini.
I don't mind Ceulemans in that role. I used him in a similar way in the World Cup draft behind Cruyff. He's not necessarily a player who carries the ball all the time, but one that also offers a lot of intelligent movement off the ball. That being said, I probably would have started it the other way round here, Ceulemans as a forward who drags defenders all over the pitch with Platini starting behind him.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Wasn't Ceulemans similar to Platini? Not sure I like him in that role. He could be a false 9 himself and struggling to see how he'll work with Platini.
The way the midfield is shown in the graphic is a bit odd, yea. Though that's the extent of the criticism I have for it, I see it more as a double pivot of Tigana and Tardelli, both well capable of going backwards and forward, with Cuelemans dovetailing nicely with Platini, with the two exchanging creative and scoring jobs throughout the game. It's a really nice bit of flexibility and an absolute nightmare for a defense to play against.

The one I'm less sure of is Figo, shouldn't there be a more direct wing-forward in that role, and not a creative traditional winger?
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
The way the midfield is shown in the graphic is a bit odd, yea. Though that's the extent of the criticism I have for it, I see it more as a double pivot of Tigana and Tardelli, both well capable of going backwards and forward, with Cuelemans dovetailing nicely with Platini, with the two exchanging creative and scoring jobs throughout the game. It's a really nice bit of flexibility and an absolute nightmare for a defense to play against.

The one I'm less sure of is Figo, shouldn't there be a more direct wing-forward in that role, and not a creative traditional winger?
Important that we don't compare Crappy's setup to the French one too much. You are right in that there is supposed to be two selfless strikers who pull the defenders apart intelligently. But we have to judge what we have in front of us because what Crappy's put forward can be something else - that is also viable.

I am waiting until he makes a bigger explanations on the roles and how he sees it working.
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
Meazza and Cabrini will be fearsome for Pedro here, Crappy has Figo and Vogts there which is roughly as good as it gets more or less defensively. Cabrini will offer overlaps for Meazza and that is a terrific wing, while Figo will need to defend Cabrini's runs as well as attack alone down that flank. I expect him to have more of a tactical role, trying to provide width and stretch the defense and at times when he gets support or finds space try to make runs behind the defense.

Crappy has set up with a right flank that will be forced to defend while his left flank is all out attacking with Krol, Ceulemans, Puc and Platini wrecking havoc. Personally I would have probably played Cuelemans on the right side to let him link up with Figo rather freely, but there is nothing wrong with having one exceptionally strong flank instead. Tardelli isn't playing his best position but he did play some as a purely defensive midfielder as well.

Especially when Figo-Vogts looks absolutely great at defending that flank, it has to be noted that Meazza and Cabrini are of equal top quality.

Crappy's left left flank versus Pedro's right would be amazing to see. Bene won't offer the defensive stability and work rate that Figo will to help out Vogts in his job. Bene will be looking for the kill on the counter instead and I am not sure how @PedroMendez plans to deal with Ceulemans, Puc and Krol attacking more or less Thuram alone.
 
Last edited:

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,341
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
I don't mind Ceulemans in that role. I used him in a similar way in the World Cup draft behind Cruyff. He's not necessarily a player who carries the ball all the time, but one that also offers a lot of intelligent movement off the ball. That being said, I probably would have started it the other way round here, Ceulemans as a forward who drags defenders all over the pitch with Platini starting behind him.
I agree and I reckon Cuelemans would be a better target for Figo to hit.
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,341
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Meazza and Cabrini will be fearsome for Pedro here, Crappy has Figo and Vogts there which is roughly as good as it gets more or less defensively.
There is a question mark over Vogts' Euro credentials here.
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
There is a question mark over Vogts' Euro credentials here.
I'd love a more in depth discussion on that. :drool: Was there anything in particular that has him questioned? Did he fail in his 1 vs 1's? Positioning? Or was it his on the ball qualities that was worse than normal etc etc.
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
I'd love a more in depth discussion on that. :drool: Was there anything in particular that has him questioned? Did he fail in his 1 vs 1's? Positioning? Or was it his on the ball qualities that was worse than normal etc etc.
Injured in 1972, Dzajic destroyed him in the semifinal in 1976. That being said, I'd rather give Dzajic the credit for being absolutely outstanding than discredit Vogts, but Vogts wasn't at his best, there's no denying that.
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
I agree and I reckon Cuelemans would be a better target for Figo to hit.
Ceulemans, Puc and Platini are good headers of the ball but they are up against Smistik, Netto, Thuram, Schwarzenbeck and De Boer who are all good in the air as well. Definitely a route to chances though, I can't see Figo dominating his flank at all to create clear chances considering he's left alone with nobody to overlap him. But he would be able to put in crosses in to a crowded far post.

Personally from re-watching Figo quite extensively in his Barcelona peak that is a role that suits him. His dribbling wasn't really at the level to go through defenders, he was best when he earned a metre on his defender with it then sent in a great cross.
 

PedroMendez

Acolyte
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
9,466
Location
the other Santa Teresa
Crappy's left left flank versus Pedro's right would be amazing to see. Bene won't offer the defensive stability and work rate that Figo will to help out Vogts in his job. Bene will be looking for the kill on the counter instead and I am not sure how @PedroMendez plans to deal with Ceulemans, Puc and Krol attacking more or less Thuram alone.
If he attacks via his left side, Netto will drop next to Smistik as double pivot, which allows Smistik to support the side. Both are fantastic defensive players, who will provide decent stability. The most important task is to prevent his players to cut inside. If he really attacks in numbers, he´ll open up some space on the wing. His offence is too good to prevent that completely, especially if you consider, that not all of my players are industrious workers. Still I don't really see how he could capitalise on that; all my defenders are good in the air.

Edit: My team isnt looking for an excessive counterattacking strategy, but if space opens up for Bene, he´ll use it. de Boer/Smistik both can play excellent long balls behind the defence.
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
If he attacks via his left side, Netto will drop next to Smistik as double pivot, which allows Smistik to support the side. Both are fantastic defensive players, who will provide decent stability. The most important task is to prevent his players to cut inside. If he really attacks in numbers, he´ll open up some space on the wing. His offence is too good to prevent that completely, especially if you consider, that not all of my players are industrious workers. Still I don't really see how he could capitalise on that; all my defenders are good in the air.

Edit: My team isnt looking for an excessive counterattacking strategy, but if space opens up for Bene, he´ll use it. de Boer/Smistik both can play excellent long balls behind the defence.
For me the most important player to deal with that threat would be Silva. Your double pivot will of course help out a lot, but with Silva being depicted as somewhat on your right side I thought he may also help the defense on that side in particular.

Tardelli is pretty useless to devote a player too when he's being played as a defensive midfielder. He doesn't have the ability to dictate a game from deep, he is more of a pure destroyer in that role. His best qualities offensively is making endless runs and being absolutely fantastic at carrying the ball forward.
 

PedroMendez

Acolyte
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Messages
9,466
Location
the other Santa Teresa
For me the most important player to deal with that threat would be Silva. Your double pivot will of course help out a lot, but with Silva being depicted as somewhat on your right side I thought he may also help the defense on that side in particular.

Tardelli is pretty useless to devote a player too when he's being played as a defensive midfielder. He doesn't have the ability to dictate a game from deep, he is more of a pure destroyer in that role. His best qualities offensively is making endless runs and being absolutely fantastic at carrying the ball forward.
Of course Silva will drop back as well. Meazza as well. Still it would be quite dishonest to expect Silva to put in a excessive defensive shift. He´ll be another body, but the basic stability has to come from the back4+2 with some help from the three players ahead of them.
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
Of course Silva will drop back as well. Meazza as well. Still it would be quite dishonest to expect Silva to put in a excessive defensive shift. He´ll be another body, but the basic stability has to come from the back4+2 with some help from the three players ahead of them.
I don't think it would be dishonest by any means to have Silva defending the right side like a right winger or right midfielder. That is after all exactly what he did for Spain in almost all matches. Even if he attacks down the central areas he can still do that job defensively.

Letting Tardelli off the mark won't affect this game at all considering he's played as a destroyer DM and that isn't really his game at all. Letting Krol loose however is a pretty damn match changing scenario and I can't see Bene handling Krol very well at all.

Smistik-Netto will operate just in front of Schwarzen-De Boer which is already a very strong "box" where only Platini will be usually, with attacking runs from Ceuelemans in particular. Either way a really solid defensive set up, similar to how Simeone has handled Messi before he was shifted wide.

Silva defending against Tardelli seems a bit pointless as long as Crappy has him playing as a destroyer IMO. It would also mean that Bene would be in a perfect position to launch counter attacks too.
 
Last edited:

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
The way the midfield is shown in the graphic is a bit odd, yea. Though that's the extent of the criticism I have for it, I see it more as a double pivot of Tigana and Tardelli, both well capable of going backwards and forward, with Cuelemans dovetailing nicely with Platini, with the two exchanging creative and scoring jobs throughout the game. It's a really nice bit of flexibility and an absolute nightmare for a defense to play against.

The one I'm less sure of is Figo, shouldn't there be a more direct wing-forward in that role, and not a creative traditional winger?
Blame wiki and other sites for portraying the magic square as a diamond, you missed a really funny draft discussion when Theon picked Platini and kept banging on how to get the best out of Platini you had to mirror the 1984 diamond. :lol: @Chesterlestreet was in fits "wouldn't the name magic square imply, umm, ermm, you know, that it is a square? Otherwise you would call it magic diamond" :lol:

Important that we don't compare Crappy's setup to the French one too much. You are right in that there is supposed to be two selfless strikers who pull the defenders apart intelligently. But we have to judge what we have in front of us because what Crappy's put forward can be something else - that is also viable.

I am waiting until he makes a bigger explanations on the roles and how he sees it working.
Actually, it is, because if you want Platini the 9 in 5 false 9 you want the right setup for it. I'm not as bothered by the midfield as by the distinct lack of a centreforward. It was always a centreforward and a wing forward. One peeled wide, the other dragged a CB with him, and Platini would steal into the space created. Instead we have two players starting out wide and no one in the box. It's bizarre.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
Move on to Brazil '82, centreforward (Serginho), wingforward who peeled wide (Eder), goalscoring #10 moving into the space created (Zico).

Very simple, very effective, yet it gets messed up draft after draft. Amazing really.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
Move on to Brazil '82, centreforward (Serginho), wingforward who peeled wide (Eder), goalscoring #10 moving into the space created (Zico).

Very simple, very effective, yet it gets messed up draft after draft. Amazing really.
I went close to that with that team which had weah and Cristiano creating space for the false 9 platini. :drool:
 

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
38,189
Location
Interweb
I will come to the midfield later -

@Annahnomoss 's question about lack of wing forward instead of Figo. I think that is a standard set up for magic square or diamond but not a necessary one. Puc played as a striker towards the end of his career, he will the role of wing forward here who will start out wide but will occupy central spaces a lot as well. If I add another player like in there, I am simply too reliant on play through the middle from likes of Platini to create and win the match. That becomes a problem when the opposing team congests the central area too much. Here with Figo out wide, my midfielders will always have an outlet out wide to stretch the play and even create from out wide. It will force the opposition team to defend across the park.

Also Krol being on the left fits Puc's role to the tee here... Puc drifts in and Krols provides that presence out wide. Vogts would not be overlapping too much so you need Figo in there to stretch the play. Figo whilst not being a wing forward is also not a hug the line winger, he will attack the box when required as well. His goal scoring through his peak years is testament of that.

Then you are also talking about a Platini here who scored 9 goals in 5 matches, having a goal scoring presence upfront is not the issue here.
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
Blame wiki and other sites for portraying the magic square as a diamond, you missed a really funny draft discussion when Theon picked Platini and kept banging on how to get the best out of Platini you had to mirror the 1984 diamond. :lol: @Chesterlestreet was in fits "wouldn't the name magic square imply, umm, ermm, you know, that it is a square? Otherwise you would call it magic diamond" :lol:



Actually, it is, because if you want Platini the 9 in 5 false 9 you want the right setup for it. I'm not as bothered by the midfield as by the distinct lack of a centreforward. It was always a centreforward and a wing forward. One peeled wide, the other dragged a CB with him, and Platini would steal into the space created. Instead we have two players starting out wide and no one in the box. It's bizarre.
No doubt, if you want exactly that from Platini then you would have to play a copy of the Carré Magique. I think it is quite clear though that Crappy isn't trying to play a Carré Magique copy at all - hence we need to give him a chance with what he is trying to play.

There has been so many great authentic Platini teams already, so I was very sure he'd try something different just because it is done to death already. A bit like following your Magyar's or Balus Cruyff team.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
I went close to that with that team which had weah and Cristiano creating space for the false 9 platini. :drool:
The question with that was how happy Cristiano would be to play a tactical role that got the best out of Platini ;o)

You don't need rockstars, Rocheteau/Bellone, not the fanciest names, but they executed their job brilliantly.
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
I went close to that with that team which had weah and Cristiano creating space for the false 9 platini. :drool:
Yeah, that had a wonderful balance in attack until you fecked up the striker position by selling Weah without knowing that you can't buy a replacement :lol:.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,185
Location
Montevideo
No doubt, if you want exactly that from Platini then you would have to play a copy of the Carré Magique. I think it is quite clear though that Crappy isn't trying to play a Carré Magique copy at all - hence we need to give him a chance with what he is trying to play.

There has been so many great authentic Platini teams already, so I was very sure he'd try something different just because it is done to death already. A bit like following your Magyar's or Balus Cruyff team.
Yeah, which is why I said I wasn't that fussed with the midfield. Yes, Tardelli looks wasted to me as a destroyer and yes, I would prefer to see Ceulemans further up the pitch, but Ceulemans will sort that out and play wherever he is required. The notion of Platini playing false 9 with no one ahead of him? I don't buy it. He wasn't Messi, he wouldn't dribble his way through a packed defence, more often than not he was scoring tap ins purely because nobody had picked him up coming into the box and that's a direct result of what the other forwards were doing.

BTW, I bettered my Magyar's in the reality draft :drool:


 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,341
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Ceulemans, Puc and Platini are good headers of the ball but they are up against Smistik, Netto, Thuram, Schwarzenbeck and De Boer who are all good in the air as well. Definitely a route to chances though, I can't see Figo dominating his flank at all to create clear chances considering he's left alone with nobody to overlap him. But he would be able to put in crosses in to a crowded far post.

Personally from re-watching Figo quite extensively in his Barcelona peak that is a role that suits him. His dribbling wasn't really at the level to go through defenders, he was best when he earned a metre on his defender with it then sent in a great cross.
Fair points (although De Boer sometimes seemed to shrink in the air when he 'jumped').
 

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
38,189
Location
Interweb
Coming to the midfield, unfortunately I did not have the time to draw up something like Balu or Aldo did with false 9 or midfield 4 set ups but I will try to get into it now. The shape of 4 midfielders is meant to be fluid. I hve clearly pointed out that the end goal is to get the best out of Platini so it will be upto others to adjust their positions and role for him. It then comes down to if you think Cuelemans is capable of doing that.

As Platini moves up front you can have a situation like this



or if Platini drops deep then Ceulemans simply takes his place at the head of the midfield to link up with the attacking 2. ..



or you can have those two working in synergy in the central attacking space.



Note : Balu made a fantastic post about how it is not necessary that a 4 man midfield would always do well against the 3 man midfield. For that advantage to be negligible you do need those 3 to be very good all round midfielders. Here one of those 3 in Pedro's team is Silva. In his set up, I simply don't see him some who will work hard enough to even up the midfield battle. Silva in Euros was at his best when his team's midfield was the dominant one. Also in both he played more of an inverted winger or proxy winger forward role.

Now Coming to the attacking unit -

I do not see any issue with Figo and Puc in there.

This is something you will see frequently in this match up ..



- Here Puc does provide that presence up front to Platini, vacating the left to Krol. Here it is more useful for Platini to have Figo on the right as an outlet rather than another forward upfront.

- Or as Platini surges forward, you can have Puc taking away a central defender wide with Ceulemans moving into that vacated central area .



What some typically or specifically want is something like this ..



These players may not have been originally positioned like this in the starting formation but there is no reason why they won't occupy such positions during the match. It is not a rigid formation by any means.

All of these players -

Puc - winger / striker
Figo - left wing/ right wing (at Barca a hybrid of SS/Winger)
Platini - All kinds of midfield, attacking midfield roles
Ceulemans - CM or attacking midfielder role
Tigana and Tardelli - Complete midfielders
Krol - Key part of total football team

have played different kind of roles. Only 3 rigid players are the 2 CBs and RB who provide some stability at the back against the threat of counters.