The fanbase's role in the erosion of standards

[tomaldinho1]

Incorrect.
The fan base has been buying player shirts/clothing, buying tickets to games and generally spending money which ultimately ends up MCFC's coffers.
The fan base, due to MCFC's success, has been growing, which increases MCFC revenue.
So the fan base does have a big role.

Here's another way to look at it.
If MCFC brought in Pep G, and during his time here, the fan base did not increase, revenues stayed the same, and their social media presence remained constant (i.e. no increase) - do you think they'd have won the treble last season?
Odds are that Pep G would've left, many quality players who not have joined the club and the project would've collapsed.

Regarding MUFC, the fan base does have an effect on the direction of the club, but we've been so badly managed (from the top down) that no amount of fan criticism/support would've changed our fortunes.
The Glazers and Woodward wrecked the club.

Why would Pep care about their social media presence?

The revenue from fans is microscopic compared to the revenue that sponsors bring in, obvioisly these two are linked in most club i.e. your sponsor will pay you more if you have more followers on social media sites and in specific countries for example but that doesn't apply to the bulk of City's sponsors which are themselves or in some way political (they added some Japanese brands when the UAE entered into a partnership with Japan on renewables/tech).

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The satisfaction at HT yesterday (1-1 against a team who have 16 points in the league) was sad

Any other team in the league, other than perhaps Chelsea, would have been seething

I hope standards pick up

 

[Kellyiom]

I actually don't understand this viewpoint. I grew up watching the PL in the 00s and I always saw promoted teams come up, play absolute dogshit football and either hang on or bounce right back down into the Championship.

Teams coming up now are actually playing real football - there fans are actually getting to see them actually trying to compete on the pitch. This season the 3 promoted teams will go down - but the season before 2/3 survived, and this season Bournemouth and Fulham fans have celebrated their team scoring a goal as many times as Manchester United. Brentford are still here from the season before that and generally play good football.

There's so much talent in the league now, that generally even the bottom half teams are playing real football for the most part rather than scrapping for draws and will get multiple scalps a season.

Fair point, I think I was on rant mode while wearing the rose tinted glasses. I suppose there's an improvement for clubs to make better squad investment when they sell sought-after players much like Brighton did with Caicedo.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The satisfaction at HT yesterday (1-1 against a team who have 16 points in the league) was sad

Any other team in the league, other than perhaps Chelsea, would have been seething

I hope standards pick up

Ah the poster who doesn't watch games but just looks at the half time score and full time score and decided who played well. Nice to see you again.

 

[Sky1981]

I love the idea that this poll shifting to 90% would magically trigger EtH's sack

If 90% of OT booed the feck out of Rashford and ETH. They'll be gone by the morninf

 

[Berbasbullet]

The satisfaction at HT yesterday (1-1 against a team who have 16 points in the league) was sad

Any other team in the league, other than perhaps Chelsea, would have been seething

I hope standards pick up

Dumb point.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Ah the poster who doesn't watch games but just looks at the half time score and full time score and decided who played well. Nice to see you again.

Hello poster who doesn’t care about scorelines so long as we win the possession. Guessing you’re a fan of De Zerbi?

Dumb point.

Prove it

 

[tomaldinho1]

Hello poster who doesn’t care about shorelines so long as we win the possession. Guessing you’re a fan of De Zerbi?

I'll have you know I am a big fan of coastal walks and the marine environment in general around our fair isle.

Not really, think De Zerbi could be a real disaster. Not sure where you got the idea I care about % of possession form , again seems like you are looking at a stat and not watching the game?

 

[Red in STL]

Fans have zero say on anything. United could have burned the ground down in protest at the Glazer ownership and nothing would have changed.

United fans were protesting about the direction of the club when we were good in the mid 90s. For people on here to pin any blame on the magchgoing support for the clubs decline is absolutely insane.

Precisely, folks of a certain age group will remember the City fans protesting Peter Swales, it got them absolutely nowhere

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I'll have you know I am a big fan of coastal walks and the marine environment in general around our fair isle.

Not really, think De Zerbi could be a real disaster. Not sure where you got the idea I care about % of possession form , again seems like you are looking at a stat and not watching the game?

I asked yesterday what was “great” about the first half and you had no answer. I’ll give you another chance. What was great about the first half? I did watch and saw absolutely nothing “great”

A bit more encouraging perhaps is passable. But great? What was?

 

[tomaldinho1]

I asked yesterday what was “great” about the first half and you had no answer. I’ll give you another chance. What was great about the first half? I did watch and saw absolutely nothing “great”

A bit more encouraging perhaps is passable. But great? What was?

Bar for a brain fart pass, we completely controlled a game of football, created numerous chances and didn't lose our heads or see the usual cruddy moments that we are used to. Yes they are not a good team but the alternative you seem to be looking for is we coming 4-0 up and then, and only then, fans can feel positive.

As I explained to you yesterday, there are 2 halves in a game of football, so I was feeling very optimistic about the second half having watched us inthe 1st. It's no guarantee, of course, that the manner of the game would continue as it had, but I felt confident we would score goals and win. Obviously we couldn't shake the shitty ability we seem to have this season of conceding silly goals but overall we battered them and having spent much of my time this season watching us make fool's of ourselves, I was feeling positive about the end result having seen that first half. I was correct to be optimistic, one of our highest xG's of the season, we really gave them very little in the way of real chances and but for Garnacho apparently borrowing Werner's boots, it could have been a huge win.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Hello poster who doesn’t care about scorelines so long as we win the possession. Guessing you’re a fan of De Zerbi?


Prove it

We went onto win the game 4-2.

There, proved.

It’s almost like posters were judging the 45 minutes in isolation and saw some positive stuff. I.e. we dominated the ball and had a decent amount of shots (without conceding our customary 30 shots ) and should have been well ahead, conversely we conceded a silly goal due to an individual error. Obviously no one thought it was perfect, but there were signs of improvement from us.

It’s okay to see the positives in the a half even if we’re not winning! It doesn’t always have to be doom and gloom, even if things aren’t going well. You should try it!

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Bar for a brain fart pass, we completely controlled a game of football, created numerous chances and didn't lose our heads or see the usual cruddy moments that we are used to. Yes they are not a good team but the alternative you seem to be looking for is we coming 4-0 up and then, and only then, fans can feel positive.

As I explained to you yesterday, there are 2 halves in a game of football, so I was feeling very optimistic about the second half having watched us inthe 1st. It's no guarantee, of course, that the manner of the game would continue as it had, but I felt confident we would score goals and win. Obviously we couldn't shake the shitty ability we seem to have this season of conceding silly goals but overall we battered them and having spent much of my time this season watching us make fool's of ourselves, I was feeling positive about the end result having seen that first half. I was correct to be optimistic, one of our highest xG's of the season, we really gave them very little in the way of real chances and but for Garnacho apparently borrowing Werner's boots, it could have been a huge win.

But the second half is moot to the conversation. If we’d have scored 10 in the second half, or if we’d have conceded a few and lost, or the game cancelled and no second half happening, it doesn’t make any difference.

Your point was that the first half was “great”

From your answer, I’m guessing that it’s because we controlled the game. I don’t have the stats but I’d feel quite comfortable saying that we didn’t control the first half any better than any other top half team has against Sheffield United at home this season. It was very far from “great” - it was just better than the last few weeks

 

[LawCharltonBest]

We went onto win the game 4-2.

There, proved.

It’s almost like posters were judging the 45 minutes in isolation and saw some positive stuff. I.e. we dominated the ball and had a decent amount of shots (without conceding our customary 30 shots ) and should have been well ahead, conversely we conceded a silly goal due to an individual error. Obviously no one thought it was perfect, but there were signs of improvement from us.

It’s okay to see the positives in the a half even if we’re not winning! It doesn’t always have to be doom and gloom, even if things aren’t going well. You should try it!

So you said “dumb point” and then made an even dumber one yourself

The whole point was at half time. The second half has absolutely nothing to do with anything

So “proved” is fundamentally wrong. You actually did the opposite and shat over your own point

 

[fergiewherearethou]

If 90% of OT booed the feck out of Rashford and ETH. They'll be gone by the morninf

That's the no1 issue, our fans in the stands never take a stand....they either cheer or stay in silence.

 

[tomaldinho1]

But the second half is moot to the conversation. If we’d have scored 10 in the second half, or if we’d have conceded a few and lost, or the game cancelled and no second half happening, it doesn’t make any difference.

Your point was that the first half was “great”

From your answer, I’m guessing that it’s because we controlled the game. I don’t have the stats but I’d feel quite comfortable saying that we didn’t control the first half any better than any other top half team has against Sheffield United at home this season. It was very far from “great” - it was just better than the last few weeks

That first para is the about the 1st half...again, did you watch the game?

 

[adexkola]

If 90% of OT booed the feck out of Rashford and ETH. They'll be gone by the morninf

Move the needle by going to Old Trafford and booing all match

It only takes one to make a difference and change the world

 

[LawCharltonBest]

That first para is the about the 1st half...again, did you watch the game?

Already answered & already responded to your first paragraph

If you have no answer to it, just say. I’ll respect it a lot more than this deflecting stuff

 

[tomaldinho1]

Already answered & already responded to your first paragraph

If you have no answer to it, just say. I’ll respect it a lot more than this deflecting stuff

I’m both amused and bemused. I literally explained it in my response, how on earth can you not process that answer?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I’m both amused and bemused. I literally explained it in my response, how on earth can you not process that answer?

You gave an answer, I responded. You then asked something I’d already answered.

I think any 3rd party would agree that you’re the one missing things. If you’re amused and bemused then perhaps focus on more simple things than adult debates

 

[soapythecat]

When the manager comes out and says we play well, the process is working, the effort is there, etc, then it’s no surprise that supporters think recent performances are acceptable. From the top down in the club, standards have dropped.
The fact people sticking up for Antony this week when he’s put in utter dross performances against 2 of arguably our weakest opponents this season shows the fall in standards that people will accept from players too.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You gave an answer, I responded. You then asked something I’d already answered.

I think any 3rd party would agree that you’re the one missing things. If you’re amused and bemused then perhaps focus on more simple things than adult debates

Feel free to just ignore what I wrote, it makes no difference to me

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Feel free to just ignore what I wrote, it makes no difference to me

It is already answered... This is what I think you missed..

Your point was that the first half was “great”

From your answer, I’m guessing that it’s because we controlled the game. I don’t have the stats but I’d feel quite comfortable saying that we didn’t control the first half any better than any other top half team has against Sheffield United at home this season. It was very far from “great” - it was just better than the last few weeks

And you didn't necessarily even have to respond to that. But given you did just to ask something I already answered when I said "I did watch the first half" a few posts ago, I felt compelled to inform you I'd already answered you and you hadn't said anything about the bolded part above

Hopefully that clears it up and we can move on

 

[tomaldinho1]

It is already answered... This is what I think you missed..



And you didn't necessarily even have to respond to that. But given you did just to ask something I already answered when I said "I did watch the first half" a few posts ago, I felt compelled to inform you I'd already answered you and you hadn't said anything about the bolded part above

Hopefully that clears it up and we can move on

I wrote this in answer to your question about the 1st half:

Bar for a brain fart pass, we completely controlled a game of football, created numerous chances and didn't lose our heads or see the usual cruddy moments that we are used to. Yes they are not a good team but the alternative you seem to be looking for is we coming 4-0 up and then, and only then, fans can feel positive.

You wrote this about the 1st half.

From your answer, I’m guessing that it’s because we controlled the game. I don’t have the stats but I’d feel quite comfortable saying that we didn’t control the first half any better than any other top half team has against Sheffield United at home this season. It was very far from “great” - it was just better than the last few weeks

So, firstly, you're not guessing, I literally wrote the part about control. What confused me, as I said to you, is you then brought up the 2nd half as a 'moot' point, it wasn't being discussed at all. You asked me a question about the 1st half to which I responded, the entire point of what I wrote and why I thought it was 'great' was based on the fact a second half was to come. Hence why in the match day thread I asked you how you watch football games because you seemed to basically only care about scorelines and not any kind of context.

Assuming you knew there was a second half to come, you obviously did, it makes zero sense. So I responded to you as you must not have read/understood the whole post and wondered (as I did in the matchday thread) if you were actually watching the game because we played well first half.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I wrote this in answer to your question about the 1st half:


You wrote this about the 1st half.


So, firstly, you're not guessing, I literally wrote the part about control. What confused me, as I said to you, is you then brought up the 2nd half as a 'moot' point, it wasn't being discussed at all. You asked me a question about the 1st half to which I responded, the entire point of what I wrote and why I thought it was 'great' was based on the fact a second half was to come. Hence why in the match day thread I asked you how you watch football games because you seemed to basically only care about scorelines and not any kind of context.

Assuming you knew there was a second half to come, you obviously did, it makes zero sense. So I responded to you as you must not have read/understood the whole post and wondered (as I did in the matchday thread) if you were actually watching the game because we played well first half.

I'll try to explain quick:

Your original matchday post said that the 1st half was "great".

Regarding the "guessing you mean because of control" - it's because I wasn't sure if you were directly responding to "what was great about the first half?"

Regarding the control being great - I stress that I doubt we controlled the Sheff Utd at home fixture any better than any other top half club did. Therefore I can't label it "great" as it's what you'd expect anyway at home to them. I agree it was improved compared to recent performances, but not "great"

Even in retrospect, I don't think anything was beyond "par". I can't pick out one "great" aspect of the game. And yes I watched it.

 

[Kellyiom]

Precisely, folks of a certain age group will remember the City fans protesting Peter Swales, it got them absolutely nowhere

Oof! Now that does make me feel my age! 'Fond' memories of them 'donating' 2 pence coins at high speed towards us back then.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I'll try to explain quick:

Your original matchday post said that the 1st half was "great".

Regarding the "guessing you mean because of control" - it's because I wasn't sure if you were directly responding to "what was great about the first half?"

Regarding the control being great - I stress that I doubt we controlled the Sheff Utd at home fixture any better than any other top half club did. Therefore I can't label it "great" as it's what you'd expect anyway at home to them. I agree it was improved compared to recent performances, but not "great"

Even in retrospect, I don't think anything was beyond "par". I can't pick out one "great" aspect of the game. And yes I watched it.

In future if you ask someone a question and they respond to that question, it's usually about that question.

Put it this way, Garnacho alone could have scored 3 first half and their only real chance was Onana passing it to their player. Whilst we went in 1-1, there was a clear dominant team and the attitude looked first class.

If you're one of these people who thinks 'we're Man United', we should be hammering these clubs, we did nothing special, they're just crap. Well it's been years since we've not struggled against most teams in some capacity, even in comparatively good seasons we would drop points across relegation teams regularly so I was happy with that first half. I don't particularly care, nor see the relevance, of how other teams did, I watch United and am comparing it to our games. But as you've brought it up, at home, Spurs scraped past them 2-1 needed 2 extra time goals, City beat them 2-0, Pool beat then 3-1, Villa drew 1-1, Arsenal beat them 5-0... so we're as good/better than all but Arsenal.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

In future if you ask someone a question and they respond to that question, it's usually about that question.

Put it this way, Garnacho alone could have scored 3 first half and their only real chance was Onana passing it to their player. Whilst we went in 1-1, there was a clear dominant team and the attitude looked first class.

If you're one of these people who thinks 'we're Man United', we should be hammering these clubs, we did nothing special, they're just crap. Well it's been years since we've not struggled against most teams in some capacity, even in comparatively good seasons we would drop points across relegation teams regularly so I was happy with that first half. I don't particularly care, nor see the relevance, of how other teams did, I watch United and am comparing it to our games. But as you've brought it up, at home, Spurs scraped past them 2-1 needed 2 extra time goals, City beat them 2-0, Pool beat then 3-1, Villa drew 1-1, Arsenal beat them 5-0... so we're as good/better than all but Arsenal.

Yeah but it was you who said control was not about scorelines. So telling me what the scorelines were doesn't answer what I said, as I was speaking strictly about control.

Anyway, if you think the control and performance was great, then so be it. For me it was par with what I expected and certainly not worthy of such a label as 'great'.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yeah but it was you who said control was not about scorelines. So telling me what the scorelines were doesn't answer what I said, as I was speaking strictly about control.

Anyway, if you think the control and performance was great, then so be it. For me it was par with what I expected and certainly not worthy of such a label as 'great'.

Yeah, I got that

 

[Red in STL]

Oof! Now that does make me feel my age! 'Fond' memories of them 'donating' 2 pence coins at high speed towards us back then.

I was thinking more of the street protests/riots but yep 2p's and also Scouser's with golf balls and 6" nails

 

[Red in STL]

You gave an answer, I responded. You then asked something I’d already answered.

I think any 3rd party would agree that you’re the one missing things. If you’re amused and bemused then perhaps focus on more simple things than adult debates

Most 3rd parties have fallen asleep during this exchange

 

[Bebe]

Yeah, the resounding boos around OT whenever we're not winning at half really show the complacency in United's fanbase.

Ditto for the groans when we're not playing well and a player mishits a pass or similar.

 

[CloneMC16]

Fans have zero say on anything. United could have burned the ground down in protest at the Glazer ownership and nothing would have changed.

United fans were protesting about the direction of the club when we were good in the mid 90s. For people on here to pin any blame on the matchgoing support for the clubs decline is absolutely insane.

If the fans had zero say on anything, Greenwood would have been back playing for us this season.

The fans have a say when they really do want a say.

 

[Partridge]

Do you have any idea how often Guardiola has moaned about the City fans? Their fanbase is still pathetically small considering the insane levels of success. Pep is staying because he's winning and because he's getting paid astronomical wages.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ep-guardiola-for-comments-on-home-attendances

Would he leave? Never. Are city getting bigger? Slowly, maybe, but they're still absolutely dwarfed in the North of England by Liverpool and Manchester United (though their numbers -are- increasing)

Pep would leave to be the "daddy" at Barcelona. I believe that. It's probably the only job he wants now.

 

[Kellyiom]

I was thinking more of the street protests/riots but yep 2p's and also Scouser's with golf balls and 6" nails

Ahh, the good old days! You'd think with inflation and the money in the game they could lob fivers over at least.

 

[Lentwood]

The fan base doesn't have a role in setting standards. The fan base is stupid and should have absolutely no input whatsoever.

If anything, the club have paid too much heed to noise made by fans / the media (or made decisions to try to please them) and look where that's got us.

 

[Hammondo]

The fan base doesn't have a role in setting standards. The fan base is stupid and should have absolutely no input whatsoever.

If anything, the club have paid too much heed to noise made by fans / the media (or made decisions to try to please them) and look where that's got us.

I agree, I think it's down to the absolute lack of direction from within the club, so they just started doing what was popular.

 

[MancunianAngels]

My biggest issue with our modern day support is how reactionary it has become.

It's interesting that for a long time, former players (Tevez/Ince aside) used to always get amazing receptions at Old Trafford when they returned for new clubs. Even very average players like Poborsky were applauded. A player in Ronaldo who spent an entire summer trying to force his way out was also given a standing ovation when he returned for Real Madrid.

It's quite sad that if Rashford was to leave this summer and sign for PSG, a worryingly high % of our fans would probably boo him if he ever played against us.

 

[Remember the geese]

It's quite sad that if Rashford was to leave this summer and sign for PSG, a worryingly high % of our fans would probably boo him if he ever played against us.

No they wouldn't.

 

[Utd heap]

My biggest issue with our modern day support is how reactionary it has become.

It's interesting that for a long time, former players (Tevez/Ince aside) used to always get amazing receptions at Old Trafford when they returned for new clubs. Even very average players like Poborsky were applauded. A player in Ronaldo who spent an entire summer trying to force his way out was also given a standing ovation when he returned for Real Madrid.

It's quite sad that if Rashford was to leave this summer and sign for PSG, a worryingly high % of our fans would probably boo him if he ever played against us.

Considering his song gets sung at aways and by TRA on a fairly regularly basis I highly doubt it