The John Murtough Era

Trex

Full Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
727
Location
Nigeria
First the appointment of Ralf Rangnick to take the helm as interim manager known for his progressive footballing philosophy after which he'll have enough insight to advice the board regarding the way forward.
Then the strategic process of hiring a manager who plays a brand of football united would be proud of most likely its going to be Ten Hag.
Early days but this seems promising, if we're this thorough and strategic regarding recruitment and awarding contracts then I feel its only a matter of time before we're back to competiting with the best sides.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
18,933
Not worth commenting on until we've had a few years to see if his work has been overall positive or negative.
 

Neil_Buchanan

Cock'd
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
3,192
Location
Bolton
It seems good so far but it’s way too soon to really judge. I am glad Ralf came in but you can’t call it a success on almost metric at all and we’ve yet to even kick a ball under Ten Hag.
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
20,933
Location
Polska
Still too many question marks how will the board & Glazers react if Ralf & Erik cooperation will try overwhelm marketing side with football matters during the regular season. I guess for now we can demand Murtough in key moments to choose the right side and work for ruthless expansion, not conformism which is rotting the club atm.
 

Trex

Full Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
727
Location
Nigeria
It seems good so far but it’s way too soon to really judge. I am glad Ralf came in but you can’t call it a success on almost metric at all and we’ve yet to even kick a ball under Ten Hag.
I generally agree.....what we've seen so far looks like good planning and not the shut gun approach of the past, including an awareness to imbibe modern football culture into the club, only time will tell how competent he is and if the Glazers will back this all the way
 

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
60,878
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Still too many question marks how will the board & Glazers react if Ralf & Erik cooperation will try overwhelm marketing side with football matters during the regular season. I guess for now we can demand Murtough in key moments to choose the right side and work for ruthless expansion, not conformism which is rotting the club atm.
I’d love to know what the feck this means
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
20,933
Location
Polska
I’d love to know what the feck this means
Prioritise football at cost of marketing gain.

The money will come anyway if there will be progress on the pitch and regular appearance in elite competitions.
 

JJ12

Predicted Portugal, Italy to win Euro 2016, 2020
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
8,424
Location
Wales
Love the 2 appointments however we need to see their ideas backed in the market and players shipped out.

Huge task but liking the direction.
 

Corridor of Uncertainty

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
1,774
As excited as I am about next season, as long as we have Matt Judge in charge of transfer fees and contracts, we'll still be getting little value for money.

Although he didn't put Bruno on £400,000 a week so maybe he's learning.
 

Crashoutcassius

Full Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
9,398
Location
playa del carmen
As excited as I am about next season, as long as we have Matt Judge in charge of transfer fees and contracts, we'll still be getting little value for money.

Although he didn't put Bruno on £400,000 a week so maybe he's learning.
Not sure about this. Sancho we saved nearly 50m on when everyone on this forum said to just pay the money. The price was varane was said to be good at the time. I've never thought we got roasted on prices. Maguire was obviously a high fee but it was 25pc more than what city routinely pay for defenders who flat out fail, and he was supposed to be a pillar for the team
 

youmeletsfly

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
2,197
As excited as I am about next season, as long as we have Matt Judge in charge of transfer fees and contracts, we'll still be getting little value for money.

Although he didn't put Bruno on £400,000 a week so maybe he's learning.
That was god damn surprising to say the least.
 

Tavern in the town

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2022
Messages
579
Prioritise football at cost of marketing gain.

The money will come anyway if there will be progress on the pitch and regular appearance in elite competitions.
This doesn’t make sense. Footballing success will translate to commercial success. There’s a reason the latest figures showed Liverpool being right up our arses when it comes to revenue, our growth has slowed pretty remarkably since Fergie retired.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
13,359
Some of the transfer fees were acceptable. Some downright stupid. It's the wages that are the problem.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
56,955
Before being appointed as the Man United director of football, he served as the head of football development and has been credited with the work done on recruitment structures and the women's team.
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
20,933
Location
Polska
This doesn’t make sense. Footballing success will translate to commercial success. There’s a reason the latest figures showed Liverpool being right up our arses when it comes to revenue, our growth has slowed pretty remarkably since Fergie retired.
That's what I mean, but in order to do that you'll need more football men in high places and Ralf & Erik working together gives us numbers. Murtough leaning towards the football side should provide even more leverage, but it will show in regular season as it always shows.
 

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
7,942
Location
Nnc
As excited as I am about next season, as long as we have Matt Judge in charge of transfer fees and contracts, we'll still be getting little value for money.

Although he didn't put Bruno on £400,000 a week so maybe he's learning.
How much is he on ,now ?
 

Corridor of Uncertainty

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
1,774
How much is he on ,now ?
He doubled his previous wage so he's now on about £240,000/£250,000 I believe.

Not sure about this. Sancho we saved nearly 50m on when everyone on this forum said to just pay the money. The price was varane was said to be good at the time. I've never thought we got roasted on prices. Maguire was obviously a high fee but it was 25pc more than what city routinely pay for defenders who flat out fail, and he was supposed to be a pillar for the team
Good point, I have to give him credit for the fee we paid. We still ended up giving Sancho £350,000 a week though. Which isn't a problem when it's your last contract with the club, but he's 22. If he impresses in the next couple of seasons, what's his next contract, half a million a week? And the one after that? Putting players on such high wages so early isn't sustainable, and creates more problems down the line when players who are impressing demand parity, it's a never ending cycle.

Although I suppose the board could have easily caved and given Bruno what Sancho is making, so hopefully we've started to smarten up.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
10,162
Location
Jamaica
He doubled his previous wage so he's now on about £240,000/£250,000 I believe.


Good point, I have to give him credit for the fee we paid. We still ended up giving Sancho £350,000 a week though. Which isn't a problem when it's your last contract with the club, but he's 22. If he impresses in the next couple of seasons, what's his next contract, half a million a week? And the one after that? Putting players on such high wages so early isn't sustainable, and creates more problems down the line when players who are impressing demand parity, it's a never ending cycle.

Although I suppose the board could have easily caved and given Bruno what Sancho is making, so hopefully we've started to smarten up.
Why are you believing we've given Sancho 350k/w but somehow managed to only give Bruno 240k/w? Within the space of a year, when Bruno's deal was second. And after some outlets at the time reported that Sancho was on Rashford/Martial wages.

Also, outlets report now Bruno is just behind Ronaldo, Pogba and De Gea now.

It's clear that Varane, Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Bruno are on similar wages with the likes of Cavani, Maguire and Shaw just behind.
 

Giggsy13

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
2,505
Location
Toronto
He will ultimately be judged on recruitment and our ability to sell players. So far not so great when you consider the number of players leaving on a free that could have been sold, but I suppose time will tell.
 

PieCrust

Full Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
1,390
It all depends on how they curtail the player power dynamic. All for nothing if the club continues to pander to the players and scapegoat the manager.

We'll get some good insight into that seeing how they handle Pogba. He should be sent packing, but does the club have the backbone to do it?

I'm more than willing to give the club time if I can see positive movement in removing the toxic non-performers and bringing in the right profile of new signings that not only have talent, but want to work for the badge. Immediate results would be secondary while true progress is being made. It is very difficult to implement culture change.
 

Forevergiggs1

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Messages
2,830
Location
Barcelona
Supports
United
Why are you believing we've given Sancho 350k/w but somehow managed to only give Bruno 240k/w?
Because maybe people are trying to convince themselves we're turning a corner on how we approach contract extensions/wages. £240k for Bruno while still (supposedly) well under other players is more or less (more) on par on what he should be being paid.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
56,955
United hasn't had a DOF since the beginning of time. Jon Murtough didn't fall into the job like Mr Bean does in its initial scene. Prior to be given the job he was tasked with a number of tasks including restructuring the recruiting structure and the scouting department. We all know how efficient that restructuring was.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
10,162
Location
Jamaica
Because maybe people are trying to convince themselves we're turning a corner on how we approach contract extensions/wages. £240k for Bruno while still (supposedly) well under other players is more or less (more) on par on what he should be being paid.
Yes but then Bruno would have to be an idiot in that scenario
 

Forevergiggs1

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Messages
2,830
Location
Barcelona
Supports
United
Yes but then Bruno would have to be an idiot in that scenario
Why? If Bruno demanded parity with the top earners and the club said no what is Bruno going to do? He'd have 2 choices. Accept what the club are offering or put himself on the transfer market with a very big risk of not getting a wage as high as what he was offered here. If that was the scenario then I really do applaud the people that put together the deal for Bruno at the club. Offering ridiculous wages is a big reason we're in the mess that we're in. Sancho 350k. Martial 250k. Rashford 200k really does boggle the mind.
 

Escobar

Poster originally known as Michel04
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
26,101
Location
La-La-Land
Why? If Bruno demanded parity with the top earners and the club said no what is Bruno going to do? He'd have 2 choices. Accept what the club are offering or put himself on the transfer market with a very big risk of not getting a wage as high as what he was offered here. If that was the scenario then I really do applaud the people that put together the deal for Bruno at the club. Offering ridiculous wages is a big reason we're in the mess that we're in. Sancho 350k. Martial 250k. Rashford 200k really does boggle the mind.
Anyone confirming that numbers? Sancho on 350k is very unlikely
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
5,696
People are blowing their load early. He was already at the club and was active for a good chunk of Ole's regime. Most recently I'm not exactly impressed by the premature Bruno extension but I'm most unimpressed with renewing the contracts of the coaching staff weeks into Ole's sack form. Murtough was giving interviews about having a long term vision while everyone was asking why Ole hadn't been sacked. He was part of the decision making machinery that allowed Ole's sacking to be so poorly timed and is why the club would have spent extra on Phelan and Cos contract terminations. He got bailed out that they chose to leave but it was a poor decision.

I of course look forward to being told he had no part of the incompetences of the last several months.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
10,162
Location
Jamaica
Why? If Bruno demanded parity with the top earners and the club said no what is Bruno going to do? He'd have 2 choices. Accept what the club are offering or put himself on the transfer market with a very big risk of not getting a wage as high as what he was offered here. If that was the scenario then I really do applaud the people that put together the deal for Bruno at the club. Offering ridiculous wages is a big reason we're in the mess that we're in. Sancho 350k. Martial 250k. Rashford 200k really does boggle the mind.
Anyone believing we're paying Sancho more than Bruno, Pogba and Rashford isn't thinking correctly. Point noted.
 

padzilla

Hipster
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
2,634
Failing to get top four after appointing Rangnick will go down as having failed the first test.
There are obviously mitigating factors but still.
I am happy though if it's a case of short term pain for long term gain.
United extending Pogba's contract would be the biggest indication nothing has changed.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
10,162
Location
Jamaica
People are blowing their load early. He was already at the club and was active for a good chunk of Ole's regime. I'm not exactly impressed by the premature Bruno extension but I'm most unimpressed with renewing the contracts of the coaching staff weeks into Ole's sack form. Murtough was giving interviews about having a long term vision while everyone was asking why Ole hadn't been sacked. He was part of the decision making machinery that allowed Ole's sacking to be so poorly timed and is why the club would have spent extra on Phelan and Cos contract terminations. He got bailed out that they chose to leave but it was a poor decision.

I of course look forward to being told he had no part of the incompetences of the last several months.
Regardless of whether he was involved or not, Woodward was still the one in charge of things like that up until January. It was Woodward dealing with Real Madrid for the Varane transfer. There's now a clean break and Murtough can be judged on his own merits now.
 

TheRedHearted

Full Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
1,447
Location
New York, NY
Why would Sanchos wages be so high? The hard part was dealing with Dortmund, literally no one else was after him so why would we have to offer such a high contract?
 

Jim Beam

Gets aroused by men in low socks
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
11,520
Location
All over the place
Why would Sanchos wages be so high? The hard part was dealing with Dortmund, literally no one else was after him so why would we have to offer such a high contract?
Still hope it's false. I mean it is absolutely crazy to give him such money (300k/above I think)
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
25,812
Location
England
Regardless of whether he was involved or not, Woodward was still the one in charge of things like that up until January. It was Woodward dealing with Real Madrid for the Varane transfer. There's now a clean break and Murtough can be judged on his own merits now.
Spot on, and below is more evidence to support your post.

 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
56,955
Regardless of whether he was involved or not, Woodward was still the one in charge of things like that up until January. It was Woodward dealing with Real Madrid for the Varane transfer. There's now a clean break and Murtough can be judged on his own merits now.
The CEO will always be in charge of things. However I very much doubt that Woodward did everything by himself. He would have had football people aiding him and judging by the promotion jon was indeed his man
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
5,696
Regardless of whether he was involved or not, Woodward was still the one in charge of things like that up until January. It was Woodward dealing with Real Madrid for the Varane transfer. There's now a clean break and Murtough can be judged on his own merits now.
This is what I mean. Woodward didn't make decisions alone. He even said as much. He promoted Murtough and it wasn't simply because he wanted someone to overrule. Murtough has been a major actor in our affairs for a full minute.

Not on board this push to wash some people from accountability. You guys think this will be good for the club's health in the log run? If he even did nothing as our DoF where's the leap coming from that he's going to suddenly be all powerful? Some loose reports about Arnold saying he will be hands off? I don't understand this timeline you guys have spliced together that he was dormant for 2 years. People are drawing convenient cutoff points that he had nothing to do till January of this year. Look at all his press interactions in the last 2 years, they don't look like someone who didn't support what the club was doing throughout that time frame.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
18,933
Spot on, and below is more evidence to support your post.

We really have made some baffling contract decisions over the last few years. Jones, Mata and Bailly stick out as the most baffling.
 

roseguy64

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
10,162
Location
Jamaica
The CEO will always be in charge of things. However I very much doubt that Woodward did everything by himself. He would have had football people aiding him and judging by the promotion jon was indeed his man
I have no doubt that Woodward like him or that he didn't do everything himself. It's just hard to judge Murtough when he's had the chance only this season to be more influential than he was prior to that. Do I believe he was a key figure in our decision to not make January signings? Yes. Can I call him influential in anything fist team related prior to his appointment of Rangnick? No.

He know Rangnick prior and so it was clear that was his decision. Solskjaer had the backing of all the top brass and the decision to sack him was clearly Woodward/Glazer/Arnold influenced. No way did Murtough have any real influence there. They sacked Ole and with Woodward leaving, Murtough got his way after that.

Rangnick appointment onwards is Murtough in charge of football matters entirely. Before that it's pretty clear with how Woodward was running things that all Murtough had was an opinion. It's impossible to decipher what impact he had. Maybe Woodward just liked him because he's a good personality and the previous work he'd done for the club. We won't know. It's unfair to judge him on that.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
22,911
The CEO will always be in charge of things. However I very much doubt that Woodward did everything by himself. He would have had football people aiding him and judging by the promotion jon was indeed his man
Woodward did some mental things. It was reported quite credibly he refused to spend big money on Koulibali (or similar) because he wanted to only spend that kind of cash on Varane.

He also said stupid shit like "we can do what others dream of doing". He was pretty daft and materially fecked us up.