The "leaks" (last seen 2016) are back! re: Kevin Palmer

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Pogue Mahone

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They weren't all boring we did have a lot of 1-0 wins in our more notable seasons. I checked a couple a while back for comparison to see how many we failed to score at least 2 goals and its a lot more than you think.

Last minute goals are what used to be exciting for me. Our current fanbase don't enjoy it now i don't think, kick up a fuss if we're not leading after 30min.
I looked up our goal for in the last 10 campaigns under Fergie. We have had some relatively lean periods in terms of goals. We've racked up 54 and 68 goals in our two seasons under Mourinho (yay, progress!) In the previous 10 seasons under Fergie (2002/3 - 2012/13) we scored the following number of league goals*: 74, 64, 58, 72, 83, 80, 68, 86, 78, 89, 86. The closest we've come to playing similarly low-scoring football we've had with Mourinho in charge was in the seasons leading up to that "shredding his legacy at every turn" piece that still haunts Rob Smyth. More often than not, we've scored a good 10+ more league goals each season under Fergie than we have during Mourinho's tenure, so the impression that we were more prolific under Fergie is backed up by the stats.

That said, the leanest spells under Fergie happened during a root and branch overhaul of the squad and you could argue that this is exactly what Mourinho has been lumbered with. So there are definitely mitigating circumstances. The problem Jose has with keeping the fans on board is that all the other big clubs afford their managers far less patience than United have shown Fergie in the past and our rivals in the league do seem to be finding it much easier than us to rack up a decent number of goals each season. Which makes our attacking football look that bit more inept, in comparison, even though our points total is nothing to be sniffed at.



*title-winning seasons underlined
 

Florida Man

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The media love to drive a wedge between Jose and his players. They know it winds him up and there's nothing he can do about it. The press make a mountain out of a mole hill and sit back waiting for the fireworks.

Players always feel down after a poor season or result and sometimes don't realise the ramifications of making an "honest" comment.
My thoughts exactly. Gotta take comments after losing like that with a grain of salt. For example, Messi was mad enough to announce retirement from national team football but ended up rejoining. Still, I wouldn’t past both Mourinho or our players to have a falling out.
 

Smores

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I looked up our goal for in the last 10 campaigns under Fergie. We have had some relatively lean periods in terms of goals. We've racked up 54 and 68 goals in our two seasons under Mourinho (yay, progress!) In the previous 10 seasons under Fergie (2002/3 - 2012/13) we scored the following number of league goals*: 74, 64, 58, 72, 83, 80, 68, 86, 78, 89, 86. The closest we've come to playing similarly low-scoring football we've had with Mourinho in charge was in the seasons leading up to that "shredding his legacy at every turn" piece that still haunts Rob Smyth. More often than not, we've scored a good 10+ more league goals each season under Fergie than we have during Mourinho's tenure, so the impression that we were more prolific under Fergie is backed up by the stats.

That said, the leanest spells under Fergie happened during a root and branch overhaul of the squad and you could argue that this is exactly what Mourinho has been lumbered with. So there are definitely mitigating circumstances. The problem Jose has with keeping the fans on board is that all the other big clubs afford their managers far less patience than United have shown Fergie in the past and our rivals in the league do seem to be finding it much easier than us to rack up a decent number of goals each season. Which makes our attacking football look that bit more inept, in comparison, even though our points total is nothing to be sniffed at.



*title-winning seasons underlined
100% agree, but i think our numbers were heightened in some of those seasons because we had the knack of demolishing teams at times. Still had plenty of 1-0s but much easier to stomach if the next week you then smash West Brom 7-1 or something.

Thats the biggest difference really rather than week in week out. Jose has to get the team to want to or be allowed to (whichever it is) continue going for the kill. This season there's been games where i sensed we could do it but just killed the game instead
 

Pogue Mahone

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100% agree, but i think our numbers were heightened in some of those seasons because we had the knack of demolishing teams at times. Still had plenty of 1-0s but much easier to stomach if the next week you then smash West Brom 7-1 or something.

Thats the biggest difference really rather than week in week out. Jose has to get the team to want to or be allowed to (whichever it is) continue going for the kill. This season there's been games where i sensed we could do it but just killed the game instead
Yeah, the lack of cricket scores really stands out. Whining about the lack of four or five nil victories comes across as incredible spoilt but occasionally putting teams to the sword helps build confidence, gives our attacking players a bit more swagger in their play and allows the manager to give fringe/young players more minutes off the bench. It must be as draining to play as it is to watch when it feels like we’re constantly clinging to a single goal margin.
 

Wumminator

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Yeah, the lack of cricket scores really stands out. Whining about the lack of four or five nil victories comes across as incredible spoilt but occasionally putting teams to the sword helps build confidence, gives our attacking players a bit more swagger in their play and allows the manager to give fringe/young players more minutes off the bench. It must be as draining to play as it is to watch when it feels like we’re constantly clinging to a single goal margin.
To be fair to Mourinho I imagine there is a lot less tonkings overall. The make up of the league changes.

What can’t be ignored is the stats Pogue posted about goals scored in the top six. We are miles behind.
 

Pogue Mahone

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To be fair to Mourinho I imagine there is a lot less tonkings overall. The make up of the league changes.

What can’t be ignored is the stats Pogue posted about goals scored in the top six. We are miles behind.
Yet similar to previous squad overhauls under Fergie (see above)

I actually think tonkings are relatively frequent in recent seasons and that’s the main reason our rivals have scored more goals than us. They seem much more willing/able to go for the jugular. We do enough to win and no more. Which gets us ahead of Spurs and Liverpool in the table but leaves the fans feeling short-changed overall.
 

OldSchoolManc

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So, this leak hasn’t been reported elsewhere?
I’ve seen nothing to corroborate this Kevin Palmer bloke, has anyone else? Is it completely made up?
 

Kag

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What's cute is the way people systematically go out of their way to reduce the quality of our playing squad to justify their dislike for justified criticism levelled at the manager.

So much so that the likes of Blind, Darmian and Shaw - who never even play - are referenced as the sort of "deadwood" that causes us problems.

Get rid of 'em all, we read. But who, exactly? Pogba? Martial? Rashford? Bailly? Honestly, who?

You still get people arguing the toss that it's the players letting down the manager. But who?

As far as I can see Mourinho has bought two centre halves that can't get a game. He has gone out of his way to make sure that Valencia and Young play at full back every week. He gets all the effort in the world from Matic and Herrera, while Pogba is one of our best players. He's responsible for buying Lukaku and Sanchez. Lingard has had the best season of his career.

Who are these players letting down the manager, refusing to follow his orders and actively seeking to throw in the towel? Because it's fairly apparent to me that this is fictitious and not at all true.

Season after season it's the same nonsense. Sell the players, buy some new ones. We do that and they falter. So much so that bona fide brilliant players are coming here and then described as not all that. Bad attitudes, all of them. Although it didn't seem to stop the likes of Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez performing for top clubs in big games before they signed for the club.

Who else do we need to buy for them to come here and be written off? Messi? Ronaldo? I'd say I'm being a little facetious but I'm not. It would take about three weeks of this continued dross for people to pollute the Ronaldo player thread with claims that coming back was a bad idea, the league has moved on and that his legs have gone.

The bottom line is that our attacking football is woeful. We still struggle to score goals and we are joyless. This is Mourinho's fault. He's accountable for it. He has more than enough at his disposal to be playing significantly better football than what we currently watch. This isn't about the title or the cup final. It's about getting more from what is already there. He doesn't do that. That some of the players aren't all that happy is to be expected. It's shit. The reason you don't hear similar stories coming out of Liverpool or City is because Klopp and Guardiola allow them to play with a bit of joy and don't spend half the season playing out pathetic games in the media to 'motivate' the players.
I looked up our goal for in the last 10 campaigns under Fergie. We have had some relatively lean periods in terms of goals. We've racked up 54 and 68 goals in our two seasons under Mourinho (yay, progress!) In the previous 10 seasons under Fergie (2002/3 - 2012/13) we scored the following number of league goals*: 74, 64, 58, 72, 83, 80, 68, 86, 78, 89, 86. The closest we've come to playing similarly low-scoring football we've had with Mourinho in charge was in the seasons leading up to that "shredding his legacy at every turn" piece that still haunts Rob Smyth. More often than not, we've scored a good 10+ more league goals each season under Fergie than we have during Mourinho's tenure, so the impression that we were more prolific under Fergie is backed up by the stats.

That said, the leanest spells under Fergie happened during a root and branch overhaul of the squad and you could argue that this is exactly what Mourinho has been lumbered with. So there are definitely mitigating circumstances. The problem Jose has with keeping the fans on board is that all the other big clubs afford their managers far less patience than United have shown Fergie in the past and our rivals in the league do seem to be finding it much easier than us to rack up a decent number of goals each season. Which makes our attacking football look that bit more inept, in comparison, even though our points total is nothing to be sniffed at.



*title-winning seasons underlined
Our goals scored stats really are damning when laid out like that.
 

The Purley King

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Yet similar to previous squad overhauls under Fergie (see above)

I actually think tonkings are relatively frequent in recent seasons and that’s the main reason our rivals have scored more goals than us. They seem much more willing/able to go for the jugular. We do enough to win and no more. Which gets us ahead of Spurs and Liverpool in the table but leaves the fans feeling short-changed overall.
Don’t by think it’s a case if the fans feeling short changed.
When you are 3-0 at half time you can relax, knock the ball around, out on a few teenagers, expend less effort.
It builds confidence within the team and also affects the tactics of subsequent teams you face. We used to have that because teams always knew a cricket score was on the cards if they went for it. Now city have exactly that. Teams are shitting themselves before the game even starts. It’s a massive advantage.
This is all whilst we cling on to a single goal advantage and retreat into our own penalty area for the last 30 mins of each game.....
 

Pogue Mahone

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Don’t by think it’s a case if the fans feeling short changed.
When you are 3-0 at half time you can relax, knock the ball around, out on a few teenagers, expend less effort.
It builds confidence within the team and also affects the tactics of subsequent teams you face. We used to have that because teams always knew a cricket score was on the cards if they went for it. Now city have exactly that. Teams are shitting themselves before the game even starts. It’s a massive advantage.
This is all whilst we cling on to a single goal advantage and retreat into our own penalty area for the last 30 mins of each game.....
Yeah, I alluded to that above. Occasionally taking opponents to the cleaners has advantages above and beyond the goals for column.
 

OldSchoolManc

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The fact is, the squad back ups are so bad, there’s no competition for 1st team places. This means the ‘premium’ players aren’t putting as much effort in, because who are they under threat from? Darmian? Shaw? Fellaini? McTominay?
Rashford has been given plenty of minutes, but has gone backwards and Martial doesn’t make the movements he should.
Unless we get some more WC players in to go straight into the team, we are going to tread water.
 

Skills

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What's cute is the way people systematically go out of their way to reduce the quality of our playing squad to justify their dislike for justified criticism levelled at the manager.

So much so that the likes of Blind, Darmian and Shaw - who never even play - are referenced as the sort of "deadwood" that causes us problems.

Get rid of 'em all, we read. But who, exactly? Pogba? Martial? Rashford? Bailly? Honestly, who?

You still get people arguing the toss that it's the players letting down the manager. But who?

As far as I can see Mourinho has bought two centre halves that can't get a game. He has gone out of his way to make sure that Valencia and Young play at full back every week. He gets all the effort in the world from Matic and Herrera, while Pogba is one of our best players. He's responsible for buying Lukaku and Sanchez. Lingard has had the best season of his career.

Who are these players letting down the manager, refusing to follow his orders and actively seeking to throw in the towel? Because it's fairly apparent to me that this is fictitious and not at all true.

Season after season it's the same nonsense. Sell the players, buy some new ones. We do that and they falter. So much so that bona fide brilliant players are coming here and then described as not all that. Bad attitudes, all of them. Although it didn't seem to stop the likes of Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez performing for top clubs in big games before they signed for the club.

Who else do we need to buy for them to come here and be written off? Messi? Ronaldo? I'd say I'm being a little facetious but I'm not. It would take about three weeks of this continued dross for people to pollute the Ronaldo player thread with claims that coming back was a bad idea, the league has moved on and that his legs have gone.

The bottom line is that our attacking football is woeful. We still struggle to score goals and we are joyless. This is Mourinho's fault. He's accountable for it. He has more than enough at his disposal to be playing significantly better football than what we currently watch. This isn't about the title or the cup final. It's about getting more from what is already there. He doesn't do that. That some of the players aren't all that happy is to be expected. It's shit. The reason you don't hear similar stories coming out of Liverpool or City is because Klopp and Guardiola allow them to play with a bit of joy and don't spend half the season playing out pathetic games in the media to 'motivate' the players.


Our goals scored stats really are damning when laid out like that.
This. Agree with every single thing.
 

Nick7

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The problem is that Pep and Spain have shown that the most successful and attractive football is played by midgets with low center of gravity.
Mourinho is most comfortable with tall physical players which is affiliated with hoof the ball and crossing football. No one wants to see that. On top of that you see most of our 6ft players have very poor first touchs, can't dribble and worse of all lose most physical battles/headers.
But that's not true. Being 6ft doesn't automatically mean you have a shit first touch. Being 5ft nothing doesn't automatically means you're Messi.
 

0161_UNITED

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Yeah, the lack of cricket scores really stands out. Whining about the lack of four or five nil victories comes across as incredible spoilt but occasionally putting teams to the sword helps build confidence, gives our attacking players a bit more swagger in their play and allows the manager to give fringe/young players more minutes off the bench. It must be as draining to play as it is to watch when it feels like we’re constantly clinging to a single goal margin.
True, but look where quite a few of these players, and the team as whole is coming from as a starting point.

I think some might have forgotten just how dire the team was under LVG was by the end of LvG’s last season, it wasn’t just a few dreary performances when the team had nothing to play for like this season. Top four was still within reach leading up to the close of that final season of LvG.

A fair bit of this team went through 1-2 full seasons under LvG. If Mourinho had taken over straightaway from SAF, then fair play, some of these compares with SAF would hold more water.

It’s certainly fair to point out the league is getting stronger, but both City and Liverpool, and United(!) had their fair share of cricket scores this season.

We had some really good games and played decent football this season for almost half a season.

We dropped some points we probably shouldn’t have and that let City get out too far in front, that Tottenham loss really stung and set Mourinho off, then we bought Sanchez and that just threw whatever groove we’d been in up until Jan into the rubbish bin. Then Sevilla happened.
 

FireBlade

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So people are willing to rewrite history to protect Mourinho now?

The man really is an enigma
It's a fact that we had plenty of dull 1-0 wins or draws were the only good thing we did do was score.

98th Minute winners are boring?!?!
You can have a dull game that's only redeeming quality was the fact that we won.

It's like people forget the Everton game we threw away the league that day! Funny as that supposedly did not happen under SAF.

Seems you also forgot SAF getting shut of Becks and RvN. Both players I would take over Martial or Rashford.

Maybe we would not have paid a record fee for Pogba if SAF played him at the time.
 

Tom Van Persie

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I hate hearing all the agenda based arguments against Jose. If folk want to talk about football fair enough but instead they just want to have a pop at the man and some of the shite is laughable in fact embarrassing. That’s what I hate hearing don’t you?
I’m bored of it now. It’s not worth debating with those that blindly have a set agenda. Jose is our manager he’s doing a good job that’s my opinion. I’ve stated many times why I think that I understand some of the pit falls and even winds me up. But the agenda by some on here is just completely over the top.
Well said mate. Exactly how I feel.
 

borrays

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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it will be shocking news such as: attack minded players aren't happy playing shitty defensive football. A few come and get me pleas from Martial, Pogba and the likes.
if it's true, I hope they all feck off this summer.
We are at danger of becoming Chelsea or Madrid where players try to take powers in the club, unfortunately for them, they are serial losers before Jose came here.
 

Lawman

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The term "so-called supporters". It's just a shite insult that helps reduce anyone who has any doubts about Jose to one big "not a real fan" group. The same is equally applicable to those who have had enough of Jose implying anyone who stands up for him are part of his cult who support the manager over the club. Both a load of old tosh.
I don’t mind the genuine posts and moans (I have a few myself about Jose) but it’s the shite ones that make up stuff and try to get it to stick it’s just nonsense that our manager gets that much abuse in here.
 

borrays

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There's a reason why Mourinho's lasted longer than any Madrid, Chelsea or United manager in the last five years. In the case of Madrid and Chelsea the last 10 years.

Conte's not a bad manager but as soon as the players turned...

Our players, through laziness and self-indulgence, have taken out two managers. They are trying to take out another.

I hope to God all the moaners go in the summer.

This mollicuddling some fans want for them is pathetic. They're being paid millions to play for Man Utd. They're not being bullied at work while working for minimum wage in a chippy. Like everyone is in the country, who may or may not like their job or the person they work for, they need to man the F up and do what they're paid to do. The half heartedness of some of them at the weekend, and then them laughing and joking with the Chelsea players after being beaten. FML.
This. I might take on players' side if they were winners before, but the fact is they were gobshite under Moyes and LvG too.
we sacked Jose, the best manager we have post SAF and then what? there's no guarrante these serial losers wont be bitching about the next managerS, just like SAF used to say the players will smell blood once they knew they have too much powers in the club.
This summer i hope there will be clear out, we had been too kind to these players.
 

Lawman

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What's cute is the way people systematically go out of their way to reduce the quality of our playing squad to justify their dislike for justified criticism levelled at the manager.

So much so that the likes of Blind, Darmian and Shaw - who never even play - are referenced as the sort of "deadwood" that causes us problems.

Get rid of 'em all, we read. But who, exactly? Pogba? Martial? Rashford? Bailly? Honestly, who?

You still get people arguing the toss that it's the players letting down the manager. But who?

As far as I can see Mourinho has bought two centre halves that can't get a game. He has gone out of his way to make sure that Valencia and Young play at full back every week. He gets all the effort in the world from Matic and Herrera, while Pogba is one of our best players. He's responsible for buying Lukaku and Sanchez. Lingard has had the best season of his career.

Who are these players letting down the manager, refusing to follow his orders and actively seeking to throw in the towel? Because it's fairly apparent to me that this is fictitious and not at all true.

Season after season it's the same nonsense. Sell the players, buy some new ones. We do that and they falter. So much so that bona fide brilliant players are coming here and then described as not all that. Bad attitudes, all of them. Although it didn't seem to stop the likes of Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez performing for top clubs in big games before they signed for the club.

Who else do we need to buy for them to come here and be written off? Messi? Ronaldo? I'd say I'm being a little facetious but I'm not. It would take about three weeks of this continued dross for people to pollute the Ronaldo player thread with claims that coming back was a bad idea, the league has moved on and that his legs have gone.

The bottom line is that our attacking football is woeful. We still struggle to score goals and we are joyless. This is Mourinho's fault. He's accountable for it. He has more than enough at his disposal to be playing significantly better football than what we currently watch. This isn't about the title or the cup final. It's about getting more from what is already there. He doesn't do that. That some of the players aren't all that happy is to be expected. It's shit. The reason you don't hear similar stories coming out of Liverpool or City is because Klopp and Guardiola allow them to play with a bit of joy and don't spend half the season playing out pathetic games in the media to 'motivate' the players.


Our goals scored stats really are damning when laid out like that.
Ok I’ll name them for you as I think this squad has more than a few average players.

Blind - nice and tidy but what’s his position (centre back nope and left back nope).

Shaw- Overweight and unfit

Herrera - good squad player standard

Lingard- would struggle to get a game at any other top 5 team.

Rojo - not for me probably not for quite a few

Young and Valencia- great service but needing upgraded

Rashford - kid still

Darmain- dreadful signing

Jones - can’t stay fit

Mata- average player nowadays been a poor signing

Fellaini- not a united type


Guess what Jose never signed any these guys and we could put Fergie in charge and this wouldn’t change much. Jones (young and smalling age now) was the only semi regular starter under Fergie the rest José inherited from either Moyes or LVG. He’s already cleared other poor buys like Bastion, Morgan, Rooney, Depay who gave pretty much bombed where they gave gone. He has quite a few to clear still. Next season if he gets 4-5 signings in then I will be more judgemental (critical) on him as it will be his players. But right now we have Young and Valencia as our best full backs (Shaw has been gutless and disappointing).
 

Ramshock

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There's a reason why Mourinho's lasted longer than any Madrid, Chelsea or United manager in the last five years. In the case of Madrid and Chelsea the last 10 years.

Conte's not a bad manager but as soon as the players turned...

Our players, through laziness and self-indulgence, have taken out two managers. They are trying to take out another.

I hope to God all the moaners go in the summer.

This mollicuddling some fans want for them is pathetic. They're being paid millions to play for Man Utd. They're not being bullied at work while working for minimum wage in a chippy. Like everyone is in the country, who may or may not like their job or the person they work for, they need to man the F up and do what they're paid to do. The half heartedness of some of them at the weekend, and then them laughing and joking with the Chelsea players after being beaten. FML.
The fair weather fans that have infested our fan base hinge their emotions on every word every journo on twitter throws at them and its always clickbait heaven after we lose. That coupled with being wound up by City and Liverpool supporters makes it a whole pot of shit stew that always gets topped up every time we dont win OR even if we dont win well. Then you get this leak bullshit, every club is going to have its moaners but when its us its the end of the world.
 

Ramshock

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Ok I’ll name them for you as I think this squad has more than a few average players.

Blind - nice and tidy but what’s his position (centre back nope and left back nope).

Shaw- Overweight and unfit

Herrera - good squad player standard

Lingard- would struggle to get a game at any other top 5 team.

Rojo - not for me probably not for quite a few

Young and Valencia- great service but needing upgraded

Rashford - kid still

Darmain- dreadful signing

Jones - can’t stay fit

Mata- average player nowadays been a poor signing

Fellaini- not a united type


Guess what Jose never signed any these guys and we could put Fergie in charge and this wouldn’t change much. Jones (young and smalling age now) was the only semi regular starter under Fergie the rest José inherited from either Moyes or LVG. He’s already cleared other poor buys like Bastion, Morgan, Rooney, Depay who gave pretty much bombed where they gave gone. He has quite a few to clear still. Next season if he gets 4-5 signings in then I will be more judgemental (critical) on him as it will be his players. But right now we have Young and Valencia as our best full backs (Shaw has been gutless and disappointing).
Have to disagree with that completely
 

DWelbz19

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What's cute is the way people systematically go out of their way to reduce the quality of our playing squad to justify their dislike for justified criticism levelled at the manager.

So much so that the likes of Blind, Darmian and Shaw - who never even play - are referenced as the sort of "deadwood" that causes us problems.

Get rid of 'em all, we read. But who, exactly? Pogba? Martial? Rashford? Bailly? Honestly, who?

You still get people arguing the toss that it's the players letting down the manager. But who?

As far as I can see Mourinho has bought two centre halves that can't get a game. He has gone out of his way to make sure that Valencia and Young play at full back every week. He gets all the effort in the world from Matic and Herrera, while Pogba is one of our best players. He's responsible for buying Lukaku and Sanchez. Lingard has had the best season of his career.

Who are these players letting down the manager, refusing to follow his orders and actively seeking to throw in the towel? Because it's fairly apparent to me that this is fictitious and not at all true.

Season after season it's the same nonsense. Sell the players, buy some new ones. We do that and they falter. So much so that bona fide brilliant players are coming here and then described as not all that. Bad attitudes, all of them. Although it didn't seem to stop the likes of Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez performing for top clubs in big games before they signed for the club.

Who else do we need to buy for them to come here and be written off? Messi? Ronaldo? I'd say I'm being a little facetious but I'm not. It would take about three weeks of this continued dross for people to pollute the Ronaldo player thread with claims that coming back was a bad idea, the league has moved on and that his legs have gone.

The bottom line is that our attacking football is woeful. We still struggle to score goals and we are joyless. This is Mourinho's fault. He's accountable for it. He has more than enough at his disposal to be playing significantly better football than what we currently watch. This isn't about the title or the cup final. It's about getting more from what is already there. He doesn't do that. That some of the players aren't all that happy is to be expected. It's shit. The reason you don't hear similar stories coming out of Liverpool or City is because Klopp and Guardiola allow them to play with a bit of joy and don't spend half the season playing out pathetic games in the media to 'motivate' the players.


Our goals scored stats really are damning when laid out like that.
Excellent post.
 

red4ever 79

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What's cute is the way people systematically go out of their way to reduce the quality of our playing squad to justify their dislike for justified criticism levelled at the manager.

So much so that the likes of Blind, Darmian and Shaw - who never even play - are referenced as the sort of "deadwood" that causes us problems.

Get rid of 'em all, we read. But who, exactly? Pogba? Martial? Rashford? Bailly? Honestly, who?

You still get people arguing the toss that it's the players letting down the manager. But who?

As far as I can see Mourinho has bought two centre halves that can't get a game. He has gone out of his way to make sure that Valencia and Young play at full back every week. He gets all the effort in the world from Matic and Herrera, while Pogba is one of our best players. He's responsible for buying Lukaku and Sanchez. Lingard has had the best season of his career.

Who are these players letting down the manager, refusing to follow his orders and actively seeking to throw in the towel? Because it's fairly apparent to me that this is fictitious and not at all true.

Season after season it's the same nonsense. Sell the players, buy some new ones. We do that and they falter. So much so that bona fide brilliant players are coming here and then described as not all that. Bad attitudes, all of them. Although it didn't seem to stop the likes of Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez performing for top clubs in big games before they signed for the club.

Who else do we need to buy for them to come here and be written off? Messi? Ronaldo? I'd say I'm being a little facetious but I'm not. It would take about three weeks of this continued dross for people to pollute the Ronaldo player thread with claims that coming back was a bad idea, the league has moved on and that his legs have gone.

The bottom line is that our attacking football is woeful. We still struggle to score goals and we are joyless. This is Mourinho's fault. He's accountable for it. He has more than enough at his disposal to be playing significantly better football than what we currently watch. This isn't about the title or the cup final. It's about getting more from what is already there. He doesn't do that. That some of the players aren't all that happy is to be expected. It's shit. The reason you don't hear similar stories coming out of Liverpool or City is because Klopp and Guardiola allow them to play with a bit of joy and don't spend half the season playing out pathetic games in the media to 'motivate' the players.


Our goals scored stats really are damning when laid out like that.
Post of the year. Absolutely nailed it. Thanks @Kag you managed to express exactly what I think. We could sign Neymar and still serve up the same cr*p
 

Kag

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Ok I’ll name them for you as I think this squad has more than a few average players.

Blind - nice and tidy but what’s his position (centre back nope and left back nope).

Shaw- Overweight and unfit

Herrera - good squad player standard

Lingard- would struggle to get a game at any other top 5 team.

Rojo - not for me probably not for quite a few

Young and Valencia- great service but needing upgraded

Rashford - kid still

Darmain- dreadful signing

Jones - can’t stay fit

Mata- average player nowadays been a poor signing

Fellaini- not a united type


Guess what Jose never signed any these guys and we could put Fergie in charge and this wouldn’t change much. Jones (young and smalling age now) was the only semi regular starter under Fergie the rest José inherited from either Moyes or LVG. He’s already cleared other poor buys like Bastion, Morgan, Rooney, Depay who gave pretty much bombed where they gave gone. He has quite a few to clear still. Next season if he gets 4-5 signings in then I will be more judgemental (critical) on him as it will be his players. But right now we have Young and Valencia as our best full backs (Shaw has been gutless and disappointing).
Blind, Shaw, Rojo and Darmian never play. They have no bearing on the rubbish we've been watching.

Herrera is a good player, as is Lingard, Mata, Jones and Rashford, albeit many people are doing their best to pretend otherwise. Meanwhile, the likes of Fabian Delph and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and a whole host of other 'dysfunctionals' work well in cohesive, attacking football teams that are greater than the sum of the parts.

We play the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Matic, Lukaku and De Gea every week. Mourinho has bought £70 million worth of centre halves - one of which looks awful and the other now allegedly the victim of his latest tantrum. Mourinho has actively sought to ensure we play Young and Valencia at full back for two seasons, no matter how average you think they are. He likes Young that much he fancies him to play 50 games next season. The aforementioned players are more than ably supported by good players like Martial, Rashford, Herrera, Mata and Lingard. They're no mugs.

Ferguson would work wonders with this squad. We would score considerably more than 68 goals, solely because he isn't a negative bastard that can coach a team to score.

I don't doubt we need players. Right back and left back are big issues - albeit Shaw has been handled disastrously. But bringing in 4 or 5 more isn't going to change anything unless there are serious changes to what the players do out on the training pitch. City don't play the way they do because they bought Walker, Mendy and Laporte (we need to buy three defenders apparently). They play the way they do because Guardiola has made it so, through intelligent coaching and smart work in the transfer market.
 

crossy1686

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This thread has gathered rapid pace!

I support Mourinho and all he's done so far but if the camp are unhappy and these leaks are coming from a genuine source and not Fellani or Shaw then it might be time to start sounding out a new manager over the summer.
 

serxyo

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Have to disagree with that completely
Ok, maybe you have to disagree, but to be hones - Mata playing on the right side? Is this his position? He's too slow to go down the flank, technically very gifted, has a great vision, good passes. Play him on the CAM position, or just don't play him, he's not 25 anymore.
 

red4ever 79

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Mata is quality but needs to play as a number 10 and not on the wing. Keeps the ball moving, provides a fluidity to the rest of our cones in the attacking third
 

pocco

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Blind, Shaw, Rojo and Darmian never play. They have no bearing on the rubbish we've been watching.

Herrera is a good player, as is Lingard, Mata, Jones and Rashford, albeit many people are doing their best to pretend otherwise. Meanwhile, the likes of Fabian Delph and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and a whole host of other 'dysfunctionals' work well in cohesive, attacking football teams that are greater than the sum of the parts.

We play the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Matic, Lukaku and De Gea every week. Mourinho has bought £70 million worth of centre halves - one of which looks awful and the other now allegedly the victim of his latest tantrum. Mourinho has actively sought to ensure we play Young and Valencia at full back for two seasons, no matter how average you think they are. He likes Young that much he fancies him to play 50 games next season. The aforementioned players are more than ably supported by good players like Martial, Rashford, Herrera, Mata and Lingard. They're no mugs.

Ferguson would work wonders with this squad. We would score considerably more than 68 goals, solely because he isn't a negative bastard that can coach a team to score.

I don't doubt we need players. Right back and left back are big issues - albeit Shaw has been handled disastrously. But bringing in 4 or 5 more isn't going to change anything unless there are serious changes to what the players do out on the training pitch. City don't play the way they do because they bought Walker, Mendy and Laporte (we need to buy three defenders apparently). They play the way they do because Guardiola has made it so, through intelligent coaching and smart work in the transfer market.
We finished second. How many of those players you've reeled off would start for the first place team? De Gea? That's your issue right there, in terms of quality we are miles away. City have done something Fergie never managed in terms of points. So we are exactly where we should be in terms of quality. Problem is City also have a really good coach and he's getting the most out of an already better team.
 

Lawman

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Blind, Shaw, Rojo and Darmian never play. They have no bearing on the rubbish we've been watching.

Herrera is a good player, as is Lingard, Mata, Jones and Rashford, albeit many people are doing their best to pretend otherwise. Meanwhile, the likes of Fabian Delph and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and a whole host of other 'dysfunctionals' work well in cohesive, attacking football teams that are greater than the sum of the parts.

We play the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Matic, Lukaku and De Gea every week. Mourinho has bought £70 million worth of centre halves - one of which looks awful and the other now allegedly the victim of his latest tantrum. Mourinho has actively sought to ensure we play Young and Valencia at full back for two seasons, no matter how average you think they are. He likes Young that much he fancies him to play 50 games next season. The aforementioned players are more than ably supported by good players like Martial, Rashford, Herrera, Mata and Lingard. They're no mugs.

Ferguson would work wonders with this squad. We would score considerably more than 68 goals, solely because he isn't a negative bastard that can coach a team to score.

I don't doubt we need players. Right back and left back are big issues - albeit Shaw has been handled disastrously. But bringing in 4 or 5 more isn't going to change anything unless there are serious changes to what the players do out on the training pitch. City don't play the way they do because they bought Walker, Mendy and Laporte (we need to buy three defenders apparently). They play the way they do because Guardiola has made it so, through intelligent coaching and smart work in the transfer market.
Fergie wouldn’t do well with this squad as it has too many average players. Telling me Lingard is a good player I’m not buying that he’s a mid table player at best (see TC23). Yep we have about half a dozen players that are not good enough to start regularly if you want to win (Darmain Blind Lingard Shaw Rojo Fellaini Mata) all substandard starters in my opinion. Pep had a poor season the season before with Zabelta and Kolarov (Clichy) so went out and spent £125m on full backs and £50m odd on another £50m centre back. Yeah better players make the difference saying they don’t is just wrong.
 

Lawman

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He hasnt been average, he is quality but his lack of pace has hindered his career here.
He’s quality well never seen it here. He’s been horrible this season and is a big part of our problem at right attack.
 

Minimalist

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What's cute is the way people systematically go out of their way to reduce the quality of our playing squad to justify their dislike for justified criticism levelled at the manager.

So much so that the likes of Blind, Darmian and Shaw - who never even play - are referenced as the sort of "deadwood" that causes us problems.

Get rid of 'em all, we read. But who, exactly? Pogba? Martial? Rashford? Bailly? Honestly, who?

You still get people arguing the toss that it's the players letting down the manager. But who?

As far as I can see Mourinho has bought two centre halves that can't get a game. He has gone out of his way to make sure that Valencia and Young play at full back every week. He gets all the effort in the world from Matic and Herrera, while Pogba is one of our best players. He's responsible for buying Lukaku and Sanchez. Lingard has had the best season of his career.

Who are these players letting down the manager, refusing to follow his orders and actively seeking to throw in the towel? Because it's fairly apparent to me that this is fictitious and not at all true.

Season after season it's the same nonsense. Sell the players, buy some new ones. We do that and they falter. So much so that bona fide brilliant players are coming here and then described as not all that. Bad attitudes, all of them. Although it didn't seem to stop the likes of Di Maria, Pogba and Sanchez performing for top clubs in big games before they signed for the club.

Who else do we need to buy for them to come here and be written off? Messi? Ronaldo? I'd say I'm being a little facetious but I'm not. It would take about three weeks of this continued dross for people to pollute the Ronaldo player thread with claims that coming back was a bad idea, the league has moved on and that his legs have gone.

The bottom line is that our attacking football is woeful. We still struggle to score goals and we are joyless. This is Mourinho's fault. He's accountable for it. He has more than enough at his disposal to be playing significantly better football than what we currently watch. This isn't about the title or the cup final. It's about getting more from what is already there. He doesn't do that. That some of the players aren't all that happy is to be expected. It's shit. The reason you don't hear similar stories coming out of Liverpool or City is because Klopp and Guardiola allow them to play with a bit of joy and don't spend half the season playing out pathetic games in the media to 'motivate' the players.


Our goals scored stats really are damning when laid out like that.
Have to agree with the others. This post has so much #winning.
 

pocco

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He hasnt been average, he is quality but his lack of pace has hindered his career here.
If Mata had more of a killer instinct about him or was just a supremely confident player, he'd be so much better. He's flawless technically but he's always annoyed me in that he makes very little of it. Too many sideways passes and shifting of responsibility onto others
 

Lawman

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We finished second. How many of those players you've reeled off would start for the first place team? De Gea? That's your issue right there, in terms of quality we are miles away. City have done something Fergie never managed in terms of points. So we are exactly where we should be in terms of quality. Problem is City also have a really good coach and he's getting the most out of an already better team.
Spot on why people can’t see this I don’t understand it’s obvious. It doesn’t hide the fact we are tumescent to watch but it’s the major reason.
 

Lawman

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If Mata had more of a killer instinct about him or was just a supremely confident player, he'd be so much better. He's flawless technically but he's always annoyed me in that he makes very little of it. Too many sideways passes and shifting of responsibility onto others
Yep drop the shoulder step back dribble square and either pass square or backwards followed by a little sprint. Rinse and repeat it’s bloody dreadful really. Great first touch but kills our momentum going forward every time. Good signing no way.
 

Kag

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We finished second. How many of those players you've reeled off would start for the first place team? De Gea? That's your issue right there, in terms of quality we are miles away. City have done something Fergie never managed in terms of points. So we are exactly where we should be in terms of quality. Problem is City also have a really good coach and he's getting the most out of an already better team.
Move around several players between United and City and you'd find that these players encounter and envelop the same strengths and weaknesses of the sides they enter. De Bruyne isn't putting in those performances here. Pogba would just as likely look the world beater he's meant to be over there. Sanchez would have likely joined City and started banging them in, while Sterling and Sane could very well be struggling for form in a limp United side. Matic and Fernandinho? I could go on.

Individual players at top clubs can be much of a muchness. When the team clicks, they look so much better. When it doesn't, they get dragged down as a result. Hazard is the league's best example of this in recent seasons. It's why we keep buying top players and watch them sink. It's why players like Fabian Delph go to the World Cup because their club side has accommodated them within the team, and it's worked because the whole team works. That's what the manager is accountable for, ultimately.
 
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