NO, Maguire is a liability (more of a liability) on the left CH position.
AWB - Varane - Evans/lindelof - Shaw
Mainoo - Amrabat
The Luke Shaw experiment at centre-back
- Thread starter The Oracle
- Start date
AWB - Varane - Evans/lindelof - Shaw
Mainoo - Amrabat
Shaw gives us more from left back. The way ETH wants this Keeper to play..May need 2 CBs and another RB... ?
I'm just pissed off how you can regress after transfers??
I'm just pissed off how you can regress after transfers??
He's a better CB than Lindelof tbf.
We started him left back vs Chelsea then had to change him to CB at half time because Lindelof failed to deal with literally every single defensive situation he found himself in.
Why we can't just play Varane at CB and keep Shaw at LB though I'm not sure. Regulion isn't exactly great.
We started him left back vs Chelsea then had to change him to CB at half time because Lindelof failed to deal with literally every single defensive situation he found himself in.
Why we can't just play Varane at CB and keep Shaw at LB though I'm not sure. Regulion isn't exactly great.
Yes he's clearly better than Lindelof, I guess the question is - is he better than Evans?
Pretty clear by now that ETH doesn't like the Maguire Varane partnership
Maguire Evans is a proven partnership -
Varane Shaw proved they can work last season.
But Maguire Varane doesn't seem to work and I don't think Maguire Shaw have played CB together until now.
He's no more of a liability at all. He's played virtually his whole career there, impressing particularly for England playing there
Maguire Evans is the slowest centre half pairing in the premier league. Add Amrabat or Casemiro in the mix infront of them and you're asking to be tore apart if the opposition can run at you at any sort of pace. It's imperative we add a bit of speed and athleticism to this side
You have to be a Master Tactician like ten Hag to understand.
Bingo!!! Absolute spot on
Shaw is good most of the time and he’s low down on the list of issues, but I do find that he lacks intensity in his game. At left back I find he plays within himself a bit. He could drive at the full back more and bring us up the pitch but he often just stops and looks for an easy pass.
If he wants to play him there then opt for 3-5-2. Shaw as LCB and Reguillon as WB. Play 2 strikers and Bruno behind. It's not as if our wingers are prolific at the moment.
Martinez needs to get back asap. Varane is obviously out of favour and Shaw needs to be played at left back. Once Martinez is fit the issues solve themselves.
I too question the wisdom of this farce.One of the best left backs in the world and our manager puts in at CB while Varane is on the bench
I genuinely think this will be a talking point for years
This. Absolutely makes no sense at all.
It's a bad idea. Shaw is a competent CB but he's an excellent LB and a vital outlet for us going forward. I'm convinced we'd have equalised yesterday with him at full back over Reguilon, who wasted at least four if not five promising breaks at 0-1 with poor delivery/pass selection.
He had a mare yesterday but he is generally a good LCB. He is an even better LB though and Varane is a better CB than him, so no idea why Varane is on the bench and Shaw starts at LCB.
Just start Varane RCB, Maguire LCB and Shaw LB. Maguire played LCB all his career at Leicester.
Just more bizarre tactics by the manager. Shaw is not suddenly going to become a playmaking-CB for us in the mould of Stones. Not without mistakes and bad games, and not when everything else is literally on fire with the team playing very poorly.
Just start Varane RCB, Maguire LCB and Shaw LB. Maguire played LCB all his career at Leicester.
Just more bizarre tactics by the manager. Shaw is not suddenly going to become a playmaking-CB for us in the mould of Stones. Not without mistakes and bad games, and not when everything else is literally on fire with the team playing very poorly.
I'm a believer that after a certain number of years at a club, if it hasn't happened for a player, it never will.
After 9 years of being in a struggling team, his own form swinging around, can we see that same player suddenly being part of a title/Champions League winning team?
I think it's very unlikely. It needs freshening up at this point with regards Shaw. Too much failure tainted water under the bridge.
Club needs two new fullbacks who are ambitious, taking on a new challenge.
After 9 years of being in a struggling team, his own form swinging around, can we see that same player suddenly being part of a title/Champions League winning team?
I think it's very unlikely. It needs freshening up at this point with regards Shaw. Too much failure tainted water under the bridge.
Club needs two new fullbacks who are ambitious, taking on a new challenge.
I don't think it's an issue. He's been good enough at LCB for playing him at LCB to be perfectly viable.
The problem is not having Martinez on last season's form, who was a lot more than "good enough". Shaw can't solve that, nor can any other CB we play there.
The problem is not having Martinez on last season's form, who was a lot more than "good enough". Shaw can't solve that, nor can any other CB we play there.
What do you mean by “it hasn’t happened”? It has definitely happened for Shaw at LB, he has been consistently our best player in that position for long time. You cannot use team success to judge individual player, it’s nonsensical.
You think it’s that easy to get someone better at LB? Never mind 2? He has proven head and shoulders above the players who tried to replace him:
- Blind
- Darmian
- Teles
- Malacia
- Reguilon
- Dalot (at LB)
He's been better than a bunch of ok/poor players. But what does that mean going forwards? Not much really.
As I said, Shaw himself has been very up and down. Swinging from good to poor and unfit. He's won very little with but been here for a lot of major problems and low moments.
You have to freshen up personnel eventually. You need new enthusiasm. Sometimes players just become tainted with failure.
It’s easy to claim everyone we signed is ok/poor. It’s harder to find someone better.
You refresh personnel, by starting from the ones not performing. Shaw has had his fair share of injuries but when he played he has consistently performed better than most from this squad. He is not the one to start from.
I got you fam. Order is most recently played.
EtH era:
Bournemouth (H) 0-3 Loss
Newcastle (A) 0-1 Loss
West Ham (A) 0-1 Loss
Brighton (A) 0-1 Loss
Aston Villa (H) 1-0 Win
Tottenham (A) 2-2 Draw
Brighton (N-FA) 0-0 Draw
Barcelona (A) 2-2 Draw
Leeds (A) 2-0 Win
Man. City (H) 2-1 Win
Everton (H-FA) 3-1 Win
Wolves (A) 1-0 Win
Nott. Forest (H) 3-0 Win
13 games: 6 wins - 3 draws - 4 losses - GD 16:12
Ole played him seven times as CB in a back 5.
It's not a claim, it's true. If you think the other left backs we've signed or played are anything better than ok I'd be surprised.
I'm not concerned with the order at which players move on, it just needs to happen. If not leaving the club, become a squad player. It can be after two or three others are replaced if that makes it easier to digest.
Can you really see Shaw, after 9 years in a team failing, suddenly being part of a team at the very top?
You have to draw a line after so much failure and start again.
The worst one was the Newcastle game because it meant Dalot had to play left-back and he was awful. Talk about unnecessary tinkering. The main reason is because he's fallen out with Varane and Lindelof is injured. Shaw as centre back last year was actually half decent but he's still getting back up to pace and hard to ask him to play in his less favoured position while that happens.
We've got a world-class, multi-CL winner. ETH is acting as if Varane is approaching 40 rather than just 30. Star raving mad - almost as dumb as thinking Martial will actually try...
When I criticised the great visionary for this a while back I was rediculed here now we have a thread about this
Yes, 100%.
I saw Darmian win Serie A and reach the UCL final as a starter. And he is not half the player that Shaw is. I don’t see why Shaw can’t. The problem isn’t Shaw in this team.
Also the order, absolutely matters. If you replace your best players before your replace your bad ones, you’re at best staying in the same place and at worse regressing if the new players don’t prove as good. I’m not married to Shaw, I’m happy to sign a better LB if we find one and if other positions are not a priority. But not before.
I'm not sure where you've got the idea I think Shaw has to be out the door first. I don't. I just think his time is up. At some point you have to dissociate from all the failure and individually he has his problems as well.
To me he looks like a damaged player along with plenty of others. Too many scars from all the humiliations and defeats. He's never being a player who is consistently playing for a title winning team. Not anymore.
Just go get two new fullbacks who are coming to their prime, athletic, full of confidence, hungry for success.
It really shouldn't be hard with our resources and pull.
Doesnt Guardiola do the same?
I never claimed you said he was the first that should go. I said order matters and you said it didn’t. That makes no sense to me.
I don’t know how many times I can say it without us going back in circles. You say it shouldn’t be hard to replace him but it has demonstrably proven to be so under 4 managers, over 8 years, with many millions spent. Which means that you’re clearly underestimating the task.
We have 3 left backs at the club at the moment and Shaw is by far the best. You start by replacing the worse ones, hopefully signing ones that prove better than Shaw. Then you can sell Shaw all you like. I really don’t understand the logic of selling your best LB “because he has failed” when you have other players that are not half as good as him despite being fresher and “not broken”.
Like, none of this makes any sense to me. But you do you.
Tiresome this. Your hung up on the order of exits. As I said, let's make him the 5th player to leave, let four others go before him. I don't really care. Mine is just a general comment that his time is up. If he's the second player or the sixth player out it makes no difference.
United being rubbish at signing players doesnt mean signing players is difficult. Clubs are signing better fullbacks than Shaw all the time. It's very possible.
I doubt that the club want to risk playing Varane and have him injured over the transfer window.
Shaw at LCB seemed to work ok last season.
Shaw at LCB seemed to work ok last season.
It is incredibly tiresome indeed, because you are hiding behind it not addressing any other point.
Who are these better fullbacks than Shaw everyone keeps signing. Enlighten me. The only one I rate better than Shaw is Robertson for his output. City don’t have a LB, they play Gvardiol. Chelsea signed Cucurella (let’s laugh). Newcastle play Dan Burns. Zinchenko at Arsenal?
Anyway, I’m tired.
Thanks for that - so was a decent record last season with him at CB but 2 losses this season.
I'm assuming the majority of positive results were with Varane, I can remember the strong performances Vs Barca & City certainly were anyway.
He can definitely ly play that role and I'd have him ahead of Lindelof every time, Evans is a more difficult choice. But then the question is what you lose at left back by having Reguilon or Dalot there.
Well then with respect, maybe stop fussing about me saying Shaw has to be first out when at no point have I said that.
We play teams every other week who have fullbacks giving more than ours do.
Livramento's performance against us? Full of running, aggression, confidence. But I'm reluctant to start running through names because I think we know how that conversation goes on the Caf. Every name will be argued against. Because in asking me who is better you obviously think Shaw is right up there.
Unfortunately we don't have 2 strikers
Could easily play Garnacho/Rashford/Hoijlund/Antony as a two. Worth trying if anything else doesn’t work.