The Luke Shaw experiment at centre-back

[The Oracle]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I first remember seeing this experiment in the league under Ten Hag last season, when he played Luke Shaw at centre-back away against Brighton.
Luke Shaw played well that match, but he gave away a penalty at the end of the game ultimately resulting in us losing 1-0 because of the converted spot kick.

Now this season, the experiment has been tried again twice in the last few weeks in the league, and we have lost on both occasions it has been tried:
Everton away: won 3-0 (Luke Shaw left back)
Newcastle away: lost 1-0 (Luke Shaw centre-back)
Chelsea home: won 2-1 (Luke Shaw left back)
Bournemouth home: lost 3-0 (Luke Shaw centre-back)

I understand it is only a small sample of games, but the 3 mentioned times we have started Luke Shaw at centre-back in the league, we have lost all three matches.

We had a top quality centre-back available to us today for the Bournemouth match, and this top quality centre-back has won the World Cup, and the Champions League four times; so why does Ten Hag insist on playing Luke Shaw there, instead of Raphaël Varane?

To throw a spanner in the works, our next league game is away to Liverpool.
Last season Raphaël Varane played the full match and we conceded seven goals.

So given the choice, who would you prefer to see at centre-back for us against Liverpool, Shaw or Varane?

 

[Plant0x84]

I’ll take a large bowl of CL Varane with a point to prove thanks.

 

[frostbite]

We have one of the best left backs in the league and we destroy him playing him out of position at center back. Another bad idea by Ten Hag.

 

[Cutch]

AWB Varane Maguire Shaw

 

[Jericho]

Shaw is good at CB imo, but the problem is the dropoff in quality at LB when he plays there. But it's a similar dropoff at CB when Lindelof is playing. I'd start Evans there and play Shaw LB.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Absurd that he's playing in the center instead of Varane simply because Dutch managers have a strange fetish for playing left-footed CBs at LCB.

 

[united for life]

Shifting Shaw out of his best position while Varane is on the bench is nonsense

 

[Marwood]

What has lazy passing that drops your team in trouble got to do with playing CB or LB?

 

[T00lsh3d]

He’s a fantastic stopgap in a pinch but it shouldn’t be a first choice when actual centre backs are fit, mostly because he’s so much better than the next option at full back

 

[Oranges038]

Personally, I think the whole Luke Shaw experiment just needs to end.

 

[RomfordRed75]

ETH wants a left footed left sided centre back so plays Shaw there, yet plays a right footed full back at left back.
It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Red00012]

One of the best left backs in the world and our manager puts in at CB while Varane is on the bench
I genuinely think this will be a talking point for years

 

[Superunknown]

I'm always a fan of playing players in their most preferred position. There are occasions where you might move somebody to cover for an injury or maybe the odd tactical change in a game. The first question should always by 'why?' Why is Luke Shaw playing in that position? What exactly is the situation with our other centre backs?

I can't imagine anybody feeling happy about being dropped, and especially when they're dropped for a left back playing in their centre back position. If it's working and is having a positive impact on games, then it's worth exploring and sticking with. If it's not, then maybe we need to look at playing the right players in the positions that are going to create the best overall team composition.

We've got a few other questions that go along with this. All need answering. Has EtH actually been questioned at all by anyone regarding Shaw at centre back?

 

[Abhinav]

Luke Shaw has shown he can be a good LCB, but the issue is that we have a huge drop off in quality at LB when he is playing at LCB. Today, he made a few mistakes, especially on the 2nd goal. But he could have been saved if Reguilon had tracked the run of the runner and intervened. We need to play Luke at LB and invest in a new CB or two in the summer. Not sure what’s going on with Varane but it his absence is really hurting us.

 

[Borys]

It's very important to have a left footed LCB because we base our whole game plan on building from the back.

 

[Mercurial]

'Emergency use only'

He was pretty poor today.

 

[Livewire1974]

Shifting Shaw out of his best position while Varane is on the bench is nonsense

Exactly.

 

[el3mel]

Absurd that he's playing in the center instead of Varane simply because Dutch managers have a strange fetish for playing left-footed CBs at LCB.

That's not the reason. Ten Hag is just taking it personally with Varane like he did with Sancho. Varane dared to complain about being benched, so Ten Hag will do anything except playing him, even if it mean shoehorning Shaw into center back position and no matter the result. He's just a stubborn moron that prefers to prove an opinion than the benefit of the team.

Ten Hag's personal pride has ruined the team. I thought Mourinho was stubborn in how he dealt with players, but Ten Hag is taking it to the next level.

 

[gza the genius]

It's very important to have a left footed LCB because we base our whole game plan on building from the back.

It's a nice idea in theory except it doesn't really seem to actually work or make us any better but for some reason ETH keeps persisting.

 

[kouroux]

It's very important to have a left footed LCB because we base our whole game plan on building from the back.

Barcelona under had one of the best possession based football team in history, if not the best and their 2 CBs were right footed during large parts

 

[Big Ben Foster]

That's not the reason. Ten Hag is just taking it personally with Varane like he did with Sancho. Varane dared to complain about being benched, so Ten Hag will do anything except playing him, even if it mean shoehorning Shaw into center back position and no matter the result. He's just a stubborn moron that prefers to prove an opinion than the benefit of the team.

Ten Hag's personal pride has ruined the team. I thought Mourinho was stubborn in how he dealt with players, but Ten Hag is taking it to the next level.

IMO it doesn't really matter to me what the reason is. Whether it's because of his footballing philosophy, a personal vendetta, astrological signs, or anything else - it's a stupid and illogical decision regardless.

 

[The Oracle]

I’ll take a large bowl of CL Varane with a point to prove thanks.

Varane playing with the determination of having a point to prove would be my preferred option, however he watched Jonny Evans come off the bench ahead of him today, and after that slight to him for all we know he may now have mentally checked out and could well be counting down the days to the January transfer window.

 

[Sir Matt]

Saw this pointed out on Twitter, but the value lost by playing him at CB far exceeds the value he creates at CB for Ten Hag's passing angles. United struggle for months without a left back only to move the best left back to cenber back once he comes back. It's pure idiocy on Ten Hag's part. Perhaps we'd have better buildup with a competent and adequately manned midfield (i.e., not starting McTominay).

This weird obsession makes me want to ban United from hiring any more Dutch managers. LVG saddled us with some garbage CBs just to fit his obsession.

 

[Plant0x84]

Varane playing with the determination of having a point to prove would be my preferred option, however he watched Jonny Evans come off the bench ahead of him today, and after that slight to him for all we know he may now have mentally checked out and could well be counting down the days to the January transfer window.

 

[17Larsson]

The last game Varane played he looked like he didn't want to be on the pitch.
Shaw has been good at CB previously so I doubt if anyone here were complaining when they seen the starting lineup.

He had a bad game today though

 

[siw2007]

Shaw was great at CB last year, we beat City and Barcelona playing him there I think.

It is understandable though that other teams will take note that we like to do that and will try to expose it this year. Secondly, Reguilion is rubbish playing at LB, Malacia didn’t set the world alight but he was solid when we needed him. Also, I think we are too open this year, too many players high up the pitch and less a world class Casemiro too.

 

[Sandikan]

Certainly need to play him at left back in the upcoming spell, as Dalot or Reguillon there will be carnage against the next teams.

 

[Borys]

It's a nice idea in theory except it doesn't really seem to actually work or make us any better but for some reason ETH keeps persisting.

Barcelona under had one of the best possession based football team in history, if not the best and their 2 CBs were right footed during large parts

It was supposed to be joke as we don't really build up from the back, so we could've played two actual CBs and Shaw.

 

[ti vu]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I first remember seeing this experiment in the league under Ten Hag last season, when he played Luke Shaw at centre-back away against Brighton.
Luke Shaw played well that match, but he gave away a penalty at the end of the game ultimately resulting in us losing 1-0 because of the converted spot kick.

Now this season, the experiment has been tried again twice in the last few weeks in the league, and we have lost on both occasions it has been tried:
Everton away: won 3-0 (Luke Shaw left back)
Newcastle away: lost 1-0 (Luke Shaw centre-back)
Chelsea home: won 2-1 (Luke Shaw left back)
Bournemouth home: lost 3-0 (Luke Shaw centre-back)

I understand it is only a small sample of games, but the 3 mentioned times we have started Luke Shaw at centre-back in the league, we have lost all three matches.

We had a top quality centre-back available to us today for the Bournemouth match, and this top quality centre-back has won the World Cup, and the Champions League four times; so why does Ten Hag insist on playing Luke Shaw there, instead of Raphaël Varane?

To throw a spanner in the works, our next league game is away to Liverpool.
Last season Raphaël Varane played the full match and we conceded seven goals.

So given the choice, who would you prefer to see at centre-back for us against Liverpool, Shaw or Varane?

You didn't remember him playing LCB against City win at home last season, or Barcelona away in EL?

I am not saying he should be developed to be full time LCB, but he has played relatively decent when being called up upon. ETH fell out with Varane is a different issue. Maguire played most of his PL career as LCB, but ETH only saw him as RCB. It's ETh issue.

Linsandro Martinez wouldn't be able to prevent the second goal. It's simply physique/height mismatch.

 

[Danny]

The problem with moving him from full back is that it immediately weakens our left hand side whilst attacking. Shaw is brilliant at attacking spaces and is technically adept (his assist for Bruno at Galatasary a case in point).

Rashford/Garnacho are less of a threat too without him supporting. Plus Reguillon is worse.

I just don't understand when ten Hag could just, you know, play a centre back instead.

 

[Garethw]

It's very important to have a left footed LCB because we base our whole game plan on building from the back.

So why isn't it important to have a left footed midfielder playing to the left of central midfield?

This is all a load of rubbish. The manager has fallen out with Varane and this is his excuse to not play him.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

So why isn't it important to have a left footed midfielder playing to the left of central midfield?

This is all a load of rubbish. The manager has fallen out with Varane and this is his excuse to not play him.

Varane wasn't performing. He lost his place.

 

[El Jefe]

If ETH had our 06/07 team we'd have never gotten the Rio and Vidic partnership, we'd have Rio and Heinze starting at CB with Vidic on the bench. What's happening today is just as ridiculous.

 

[Leftback99]

He's our best LCB inlcluding Martinez. The issue with the team is playing with no/an absolutely terrible midfield.

 

[kouroux]

It was supposed to be joke as we don't really build up from the back, so we could've played two actual CBs and Shaw.

Sorry bro

 

[YSB99]

I’m more amazed that Luke Shaw is still at the club in general

 

[cyril C]

There is a huge difference in playing Shaw as CB in the final 15min, or starting him as 1 of the 3x CB, than starting him as 2x CB. Your opposition has plenty of time to figure you out, particularly when they play typical English football tactics with a few tallish players that can capitalise on aerial threat.

I thought foreign managers should have learnt the lesson on Blind / Rojo as CB, apparently not, so ETH is learning his trade at our expense.

 

[Dec9003]

I want Ten Hag to go but I don’t hate the Luke Shaw centre back really. When he plays well there he is fantastic, he was poor yesterday regardless of position I think.

 

[Rood]

Obviously Shaw played CB a lot more times than the 3 mentioned matches in the OP including good results against Barcelona and Man City but it was generally with Rafael Varane rather than Harry Maguire

anyone got the full list for a proper analysis?

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Varane on bench experiment. Top coaching.