You're very very wrong. He was one of the best rightbacks in the world for 3 years running. If you don't believe me, kicker magazine rated him higher than Lahm for his performances in the league in 10/11 and in 11/12 and he was still the highest rated Dortmund defender in 12/13. He was not only one of the most consistent players in the team, he was individually fantastic. Since the CL final, he has been more injured than fit, but if he finally stays healthy for a full season again, Dortmund has a worldclass fullback back in their squad.
The Modern Draft QF2: MJJ vs VivaJanuzaj
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Aye, this is the second game running Piszczek has come in for unwarranted criticism, probably again down to lack of familiarity.
Changing your tune here viva
I stand behind what I said, prime Ivanovic has so much more to offer than prime Piszczek.
Can't believe a player who is constantly the best RB in the PL gets so underrated here.
Can't believe a player who is constantly the best RB in the PL gets so underrated here.
Maybe it's just all the other RBs are a bit shit? Or wingers in our case.
Your comment about Piszczek has nothing to do with Ivanovic, it was just plain wrong.
D. Costa
Haz./DiMaria ---------Bale---
Kaka
Y. Toure ---- Eissen
Baines/Clichy - T. Silva - Pique - Lahm
Neuer
Haz./DiMaria ---------Bale---
Kaka
Y. Toure ---- Eissen
Baines/Clichy - T. Silva - Pique - Lahm
Neuer
5/6 from MJJ, and 5/6 from Viva. More or less equal in combined contribution, players wise. Although the weight on player's positions makes the difference to the team.
Changing your tune here viva
Ouch! Poor Viva.I'm going to refrain from voting as I quite like Viva's substitution, and I don't think this game should be a thrashing, but MJJ's attack is just brilliant. It hasn't been brought up as much this game, but am I alone in thinking that the emphasis on Kaka requiring a counter-attacking set up to thrive is a bit overblown? Obviously he's ideal with space to surge into, but he wasn't lacking in technique to create something in more congested spaces imo.
Neuer; Lahm, Pique, Silva, Baines; Essien, Matic; Bale, Kaka, Hazard; Torres.
That woukd be my combined team, but it's a bad way of judging players.
That woukd be my combined team, but it's a bad way of judging players.
I'd be tempted to have either Yaya or Pogba there, instead of Matic. Also with so many AM there, I think Costa is more suitable as their 'Drogba'.
I've said it before but that Milan team was not a pure counter-attacking team at all. They often had as much possession as their opponents and in general possession was never as extreme as when Pep arrived to the scene.
I'm going to refrain from voting as I quite like Viva's substitution, and I don't think this game should be a thrashing, but MJJ's attack is just brilliant. It hasn't been brought up as much this game, but am I alone in thinking that the emphasis on Kaka requiring a counter-attacking set up to thrive is a bit overblown? Obviously he's ideal with space to surge into, but he wasn't lacking in technique to create something in more congested spaces imo.
Spain I've also said weren't a possession based team, also had similar possession stats as their opponents in the final stages very often.
I think the issue here is rather that Kaka doesn't have the necessary passers behind him to constantly receive perfect balls at his feet when he's already got the pace built up.
Pirlo was half the success behind Kaka, it isn't easy to find passes to allow your AM to actually receive passes after he built up pace. Pirlo was excellent in that regard and Essien and Matic simply can't compare in that regard.
Ideally you want Kaka to receive balls with space in front of him to attack, preferably the sort of balls that allows him to already have the pace built up. Also those Milan forwards often stretched wide - and opened up a lane for Kaka to attack.
Sheva and Inzaghi would go wide, forcing their centre backs wide and suddenly Kaka got some yards too close to goal which meant he had a great chance at a goal and he was a great goalscorer.
I've just watched all his goals for Milan and I would say that direct attacks with plenty of space - and in the second wave for crosses - is where he scored almost all his goals. Loads of them being long shots from just outside the area after having a lot of space.
Kaka always means dangerous final balls though, that really is what set him apart. For an AM you'd lose the playmaking of a "number 10" but you would instead get that lethal final ball ability of a SS.
That's a terrific post mate. Fully agree with your assessment of that Milan team. They weren't a pure counter-attacking team at all. Surprised at the Spain observation, although I'm not disputing the stats. The 2008 team definitely played a more balanced game, but I associated the later teams with a far, far more possession-orientated game.
As regards MJJ's team, Torres could doubtless do the going wide thing, but point taken as regards MJJ needing a better passer in midfield to fully utilise Kaka to his potential.
Spain won the '10 WC final with 57% possession versus 43% possession. Not tiki-taka stats by any means - these sorts of possession wins has been customary forever more or less.
In '12 they had 52% of possession against Italy - a very low sum when you consider the team had Xavi, Busquets, Alonso, Silva, Iniesta, Fabregas all playing together. It turns in to a big question to how they managed to have such a low possession with those players.
55-45 against France in '12, 57-43 against Portugal. The only matches were one could say they had some sort of "dominating possession statistics" were against Croatia and Ireland but they were always going to dominate those sort of teams just based on the skill difference.
In WC '10, Honduras had 43% of the possession even - can you imagine Pep allowing some team like Honduras 43% of the possession?
Spain had 59% against Chile, Germany had 49% possession against Spain, Spain had nearly 60% against Portugal and Paraguay.
So they pretty much racked up high possession stats because 1. They had much better players individually 2. These players primarily excelled at short passing or directly in a tiki-taka.
Spain had 59% against Chile, Germany had 49% possession against Spain, Spain had nearly 60% against Portugal and Paraguay.
So they pretty much racked up high possession stats because 1. They had much better players individually 2. These players primarily excelled at short passing or directly in a tiki-taka.
@Annahnomoss any reason of why Kaka - Ronaldinho (Brazil NT) and Kaka-Rivaldo (Milan) didn't work?
You'd think a talented player like Kaka should be able to work it out.
You'd think a talented player like Kaka should be able to work it out.
Like you say Torres could easily do the wide thing and he often allowed Gerrard to shine. Ideally of course you'd have someone with crisper lay-offs than Torres but he did work with Gerrard so it is hard to dispute that.
Having two strikers in front of him would have been a great bonus though - but Hazard/Bale's quality will lead to plenty of crosses as well, which he scored plenty of.
Difficult to say, but it was always going to be hard to have Kaka in that Joga Bonito style that Nike and the world wanted them to play. Kaka is such a linear player, not at all a Joga bonito type.
They won the Confed together with Kaka having to play as a central midfielder because they had so many damn stars. Robinho, Ronaldinho, Adriano, Kaka and Ze Roberto(and Emerson).
Then in the WC '06 Ronaldinho was already past it and of all the stars Ze Roberto was the stand out player. They played two attacking midfielders in Ronaldinho/Kaka with two strikers ahead in Adriano/Ronaldo - or they played a diamond with Kaka and Ronaldinho/Ronaldo ahead.
I wouldn't say they played too bad together. Ronaldo-Ronaldinho had fallen some levels at this stage and I'd say even Adriano had. They lost with 1-0 against the finalists France which isn't the end of the world.
When Kaka arrived to Milan in '03 Rivaldo was already 31-32 and Rivaldo had already degenerated quite badly. He previously lived on having mesmerizing dribbling, pace and acceleration and it just wasn't there anymore.
Not surprising that he played his last NT game 2003 - the year Kaka arrived.
@Annahnomoss Good one.
Looking at wiki, seems like Ronaldinho just have a great season with Barca in 2005/06, and so was Kaka with Milan.
Not so much with Ronaldo and Adriano, though. Their career was 'finish' after that WC. And if memory serve right, they were against France that had Makelele and Vieira in midfield. As anti-football as you can get.
Looking at wiki, seems like Ronaldinho just have a great season with Barca in 2005/06, and so was Kaka with Milan.
Not so much with Ronaldo and Adriano, though. Their career was 'finish' after that WC. And if memory serve right, they were against France that had Makelele and Vieira in midfield. As anti-football as you can get.
Very true my miss. Was checking a compilation of Ronaldinho from that WC and drew that conclusion. Individually he was very wasteful and full of mistake in that cup.
Brap brap
Seems like MJJ has a few Skills after all.
And Skills has 16 brothers and sisters, who each has an account here.
But I only got fifteen votes, @Skills you traitor
You were leading the voting, though. So no need to blow up the cover.
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Another strange outcome. Superior team got smashed.
