The notion that we will fail to attract top players if we don't make the CL

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
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Is rubbish.

The only thing that gives credence to such theory is that the best money usually has a correlation to the clubs that play in the Champions League. That's all. I can understand an element of nervousness around our transfer dealings as we've perhaps played the apologetic nerd as opposed to the high-school jock in our recent pursuits of all the fit birds, but so long as that changes, so will the outcomes.

We have proof in our very own League, our own city in fact, where a team originally without European football (or pedigree) built a CL team and title winning squad by throwing money at it. Over the last three summers, the 3 most coveted centre-forwards were lured to the fecking French League, one of whom went without CL football, simply by spending money on them.

If we intend to dine at such tables, then we will have little problem. We are a far more prestigious club than majority of the teams who have monopolised the transfer market in recent years. The big question is whether we would now be willing to meet release clauses, pay agents, and pay top wages now. If January is anything to go by, that looks to be the case. We met a very expensive release clause for Mata, a clause that will probably be higher or around the same as most of the players we wish to pursue this summer. We then paid Wayne Rooney more money than he is worth, so we may be seeing a change in attitude.
 
I very much doubt that no CL football will lead to us failing to attract top players full stop. It's more the fear that it might incline a player towards a club that does ahead of ours, especially if we're not the only club vying for their signature.
 
At the end of the day, money talks. If we want to get the big signings we need and want, we will have to do a PSG/City/Monaco and go Sheikh-spending style on players. Simple as that really. Whether the Glazers will go this length however remains to be seen.
 
...is absolute nonsense. Footballers have short careers. 99.9% of them only care about money, and this has only been exacerbated by the increased importance of agents, who obviously are only in football to line their own pockets.
 
Red Shorts said:
At the end of the day, money talks. If we want to get the big signings we need and want, we will have to do a PSG/City/Monaco and go Sheikh-spending style on players. Simple as that really. Whether the Glazers will go this length however remains to be seen.
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I think signing Mata for £37m, and paying Rooney what we allegedly do is spending of Sheikh proportions.
 
Rozay said:
I think signing Mata for £37m, and paying Rooney what we allegedly do is spending of Sheikh proportions.
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Yeah but that's a big signign every 3 or 4 years. I'm talking about doing it all in one season: £27 million for Shaw, £40 million for Kroos, £37 million for Carvalho, £35 million for Reus. These numbers are being bandied around a lot, and is what we need if we want top dorrar.
 
Red Shorts said:
Yeah but that's a big signign every 3 or 4 years. I'm talking about doing it all in one season: £27 million for Shaw, £40 million for Kroos, £37 million for Carvalho, £35 million for Reus. These numbers are being bandied around a lot, and is what we need if we want top dorrar.
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True that, but Fellaini and Mata + Rooney's contract in 2 windows indicates a shift to me.
 
Yeah I get where you're coming from. Let's hope they use big money for positions and players we do desperately need this time round.
 
I think a similar hindrance is Moyes selling his philosophy. We're normally behind Madrid and Barca in getting players. Added to that list intermittently would be Bayern, PSG, City and Chelsea. I don't think we've ever had the best pulling power but it's slightly hard to gauge how offering ridiculous fees and wages will change that. I'd be very surprised if we did acquire 2 world class midfielders. Delighted, but surprised.
 
Mersault said:
I think a similar hindrance is Moyes selling his philosophy. We're normally behind Madrid and Barca in getting players. Added to that list intermittently would be Bayern, PSG, City and Chelsea. I don't think we've ever had the best pulling power but it's slightly hard to gauge how offering ridiculous fees and wages will change that. I'd be very surprised if we did acquire 2 world class midfielders. Delighted, but surprised.
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'World class' midfielders don't play for selling clubs, that's why. However, the likes of Carvalho or a Rakitic are the pawns in the market this summer. We can surely box for players like that?
 
Can a club attract players by paying top dollar without CL football? The answer is a resounding yes.

The caveat here though is the following one. Say United or another club (but with CL football on offer) make a similar offer for a player both in terms of wages and transfer fees. Then that player will in all probability tend to choose the CL club. It's not entirely correct that players care only about the money. If I am not mistaken, David Villa had a better offer from Spurs (and I would assume Barcelona as well, in terms of transfer fees) in terms of money than from Atletico, but chose Atleti, partly for the CL opportunity, and partly because of wanting to stay in his native land.

So, to return to the question, the problem with not having CL football on offer, is not that you cannot attract top players, but that you will probably have to overpay for them.
 
I hate that United seems to always be hamstrung by the perception that Manchester is some little town in the North of England without much going on.

We're also famous for our rain, even though Manchester is less wet than Munich. The city's been done a further disservice by prats like Tevez portraying it as a bloody culture free zone, the eedjit. Birthplace of the blimmin industrial revolution, the place which inspired Karl Marx, geez. Manchester's portrayal as a backwater in the footballing world really gets my goat.
 
Mersault said:
I think a similar hindrance is Moyes selling his philosophy. We're normally behind Madrid and Barca in getting players. Added to that list intermittently would be Bayern, PSG, City and Chelsea. I don't think we've ever had the best pulling power but it's slightly hard to gauge how offering ridiculous fees and wages will change that. I'd be very surprised if we did acquire 2 world class midfielders. Delighted, but surprised.
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If you pay the right money, you will get big names. But by "right money" I obviously mean, massive transfer fees.
 
Lu Tze said:
I hate that United seems to always be hamstrung by the perception that Manchester is some little town in the North of England without much going on.

We're also famous for our rain, even though Manchester is less wet than Munich... It's been done a further disservice by prats like Tevez portraying it as a bloody culture free zone, the eedjit. Birthplace of the blimmin industrial revolution, the place which inspired Karl Marx, geez. Manchester's portrayal as a backwater in the footballing world really gets my goat.
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Chill mate, no need to get riled over this :D

And I am not sure when Bayern have ever gone for the Hollywood signings that Real/Barca tend to. They are pragmatists, not showmen...
 
malappapper said:
Chill mate, no need to get riled over this :D

And I am not sure when Bayern have ever gone for the Hollywood signings that Real/Barca tend to. They are pragmatists, not showmen...
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I wasn't actually replying to you :lol: Just a general comment on the way Manchester is seen by the footballing media/players.
 
Rozay said:
'World class' midfielders don't play for selling clubs, that's why. However, the likes of Carvalho or a Rakitic are the pawns in the market this summer. We can surely box for players like that?
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Yes, those sort of players should be attainable. Although, Rakitic is more of a number 10 and there aren't that many top class midfielders around. Hard to know about Carvalho, we may face some serious competition, if we're actually after him that is.

malappapper said:
If you pay the right money, you will get big names. But by "right money" I obviously mean, massive transfer fees.
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Yes. But there are other teams willing to part with crazy money. And then other factors come into play. Like prestige, manager, future plans, location, playing style, first team role...
 
Lu Tze said:
I wasn't actually replying to you :lol: Just a general comment on the way Manchester is seen by the footballing media/players.
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Yes I know. What I meant was that you shouldn't worry over what Carlos Tevez says. If United pay top dollar, then they will get top names, irrespective of what the urban legend is amongst Latin players about northern England.
 
Mersault said:
Yes, those sort of players should be attainable. Although, Rakitic is more of a number 10 and there aren't that many top class midfielders around. Hard to know about Carvalho, we may face some serious competition, if we're actually after him that is.


Yes. But there are other teams willing to part with crazy money. And then other factors come into play. Like prestige, manager, future plans, location, playing style, first team role...
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That's precisely my point, if for example, this summer Real Madrid, PSG, City, Barcelona (:wenger:) and United go after someone like Reus, then you will have to outspend those feckers. You think that may not be enough? Maybe. But in any case, you don't have to chase the most sought after players in the market, you may well try and make some sensible moves. Just look at Atletico and Dortmund, they have a fraction of your money and yet they managed to build great teams. I am not saying you don't have to spend, but there are many good players out there if one can spot them and how they can integrate into the team.
 
Lu Tze said:
I hate that United seems to always be hamstrung by the perception that Manchester is some little town in the North of England without much going on.
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Give it up. Barcelona, London, Paris, Munich, Madrid.
 
peterstorey said:
Give it up. Barcelona, London, Paris, Munich, Madrid.
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Come on. Manchester isn't a megacity, but Greater Manchester has 3 million people in it, and the city itself and the entire North West has an incredibly rich history and culture. It isn't a backwater. The places in Cheshire where the footballers live are comparable to anywhere in the world in terms of quality of life.
 
peterstorey said:
Give it up. Barcelona, London, Paris, Munich, Madrid.
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City managed to get the likes of Aguero, Toure and Silva in fairness.

I'm not sure how important being in the Champions League is, we've been in every year and yet we've still continually struggled to get big names and the same with Arsenal despite them always qualifying. The main thing is that we'll have to be complete hypocrites about City and just throw loads of money at these players and to try to convince them that we will be back competing in the next year or two. That said, I'm not completely confident the club will be quite as loose with the purse strings as is suggested nor that players will really believe that the club will be challenging again straight away.
 
Missing out for 1 season won't really have any noticeable effect but miss on a champions league spot for 4 or more seasons and the financial repercussions and our reputation will start to fall rapidly. Just look at Inter now and Juventus during the Del Neri era.

We need to act early during the next transfer window before it is too late.
 
peterstorey said:
Give it up. Barcelona, London, Paris, Munich, Madrid.
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Funny that the best collection of footballers in England currently reside in Manchester then.

Particularly funny, especially from your personal perspective, that half of them left a cosmopolitan team from London to go there too.
 
MrMarcello said:
With insane wage offers. I highly doubt United are going to start offering 200-300k per week wage packages to multiple players.
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Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs, RVP(possibly), Evra and even more could be sold/retired this summer, in Vidic' case, it's written in stone. I'd say that most of those players are on pretty high wages, so that opens up a good bit of room. That's on top of the budget that Moyes will be given too.

Wages won't be a problem for us this summer IMO.
 
Not being in the champions league in theory shouldn't affect our chances of bringing in top players, but it is a negative factor for any top player considering joining us.

We have always had trouble attracting top players to manchester when they have options elsewhere in sunnier climates, sad but true i love manchester as i grew up there but it does seem to have a bad reputation abroad. Has always pissed me off when players like Moura as an example turned their nose up at the city like they were being asked to move to siberia or something.

Of course we could throw money at players but more than likely other teams that are in the champions league could offer them similar. If we offer really crazy money thats only likely to attract mercenaries which you don't really want.

I think our best bet is to target young hungry players with the potential to become world class, that won't mind not being in the Champions League.
 
Shark22 said:
Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs, RVP(possibly), Evra and even more could be sold/retired this summer, in Vidic' case, it's written in stone. I'd say that most of those players are on pretty high wages, so that opens up a good bit of room. That's on top of the budget that Moyes will be given too.

Wages won't be a problem for us this summer IMO.
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It's more than having the capacity to do it though, if players already here see a player of similar stature to them come in and be offered a ton more than they're on, they'll start angling for more themselves. A bit like what's going on at Bayern with Kroos - Goetze comes in getting a hefty amount more than he's on, and he either now wants a big raise or he'll go. You can justify these astronomical amounts when it's on world class players, but when you're paying over the odds in a City-esque fashion it gets dangerous.
 
It still remains to be seen if the club will entertain mercenaries, but this is the necessary route now.
 
Champions League football is a good bargaining tool, especially when two clubs are trying to get the same player and one of those two clubs are not in the champions league.

Not having the Champions League bargaining chip can also mean you have to pay much higher wages to get a player that knows he should be playing in the UCL. In this case, we will most likely attract 'mercenaries', which is fine by me but will annoy some.
 
If Plymouth argyle offered me £100,000 a week and Manchester United offered me £90,000 a week I'd sign for Plymouth. That's £520,000 more a year. 5 year contact makes it £2,600,000 more. Only a complete and utter spastic would turn that down, unless it was a boyhood dream to play for United, which doesn't happen often that your boyhood team comes in for you, and even if that was the case it would be hard to turn it down.

Money talks.

By the way.. Plymouth Argyle is a hypothetical example.. it seems some people are having a problem seeing this post as an example and are taking it literally
 
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