The Overlaap - Jaap Stam

tombombadil

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Another one with Jaap Stam and some great banter with Keane, Ian Wright and Carragher

Yip Jaap Stam is a big Dutchman,
Get past him if you f*cking can,
Try a little trick and he'll make you look a dick,
Yip Yap Jaap Stam

 
I don't think roy will ever let go of the circumstances of his departure, he was almost tearing up when it came up.
 
tombombadil said:
Another one with Jaap Stam and some great banter with Keane, Ian Wright and Carragher

Yip Jaap Stam is a big Dutchman,
Get past him if you f*cking can,
Try a little trick and he'll make you look a dick,
Yip Yap Jaap Stam

Click to expand...

Where have you been? That’s from few weeks back.
 
As much as I love SAF, selling Stam was one of his worst ever blunders
 
Honestly Vidic was better but yeah Stam definetly ranks amongst our top 5 CBs in fergies era although I always had a soft spot for Bruce/Pallister. Id probably go for:
1)Vidic
2) Rio
3)Stam (although its close between him and Rio IMO)
4) the mentioned two
The problem is he never was in an elite partnership. (No diss to Johnsen he just wasnt on that level)
I will definetly watch what he has to say I always respected his insight.
 
norm87cro said:
Honestly Vidic was better but yeah Stam definetly ranks amongst our top 5 CBs in fergies era although I always had a soft spot for Bruce/Pallister. Id probably go for:
1)Vidic
2) Rio
3)Stam (although its close between him and Rio IMO)
4) the mentioned two
The problem is he never was in an elite partnership. (No diss to Johnsen he just wasnt on that level)
I will definetly watch what he has to say I always respected his insight.
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Vidic was excellent but Stam had it all. All the strength and power of Vidic but with pace on top.
A critical part of our treble win and went way too soon.

We'll never know the truth of whether it was the book, knowing about his impending drug ban or actually his level dropping a bit.

But letting him go and bringing in an immobile vet Laurent Blanc was so upsetting.
 
norm87cro said:
Honestly Vidic was better but yeah Stam definetly ranks amongst our top 5 CBs in fergies era although I always had a soft spot for Bruce/Pallister. Id probably go for:
1)Vidic
2) Rio
3)Stam (although its close between him and Rio IMO)
4) the mentioned two
The problem is he never was in an elite partnership. (No diss to Johnsen he just wasnt on that level)
I will definetly watch what he has to say I always respected his insight.
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I’m with Sandy. Stam had everything Vidic had but more pace… and a better passing game. Stam makes my AT United XI
 
Stam and Ferdinand for at least two seasons would have given us a great chance to win a CL title.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
I’m with Sandy. Stam had everything Vidic had but more pace… and a better passing game. Stam makes my AT United XI
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And I can see why people rate him that high but for me Vidic just gave that little extra more and if Im not mistaken has scored more goals for the club (some vital ones as well)
 
Sandikan said:
Vidic was excellent but Stam had it all. All the strength and power of Vidic but with pace on top.
A critical part of our treble win and went way too soon.

We'll never know the truth of whether it was the book, knowing about his impending drug ban or actually his level dropping a bit.

But letting him go and bringing in an immobile vet Laurent Blanc was so upsetting.
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We can disagree on two brilliant CBs (on who was more awesome) for the club but yeah Blanc was terrible and Barthez was shaky. The fact we won the PL in 03 (through RVN, Scholes and Becks playing brilliantly that season) and basically scoring one or two more than the opposition is nothing short of incredible
 
norm87cro said:
Honestly Vidic was better but yeah Stam definetly ranks amongst our top 5 CBs in fergies era although I always had a soft spot for Bruce/Pallister. Id probably go for:
1)Vidic
2) Rio
3)Stam (although its close between him and Rio IMO)
4) the mentioned two
The problem is he never was in an elite partnership. (No diss to Johnsen he just wasnt on that level)
I will definetly watch what he has to say I always respected his insight.
Click to expand...
It's a tough call between the top 3 and I think comes down to preference.

I think Rio is the best from that era. He was different than all other CB's at that time with his pace, ability on the ball and passing range.

You could argue that Vidic and Rio should sit on equal footing though, because I don't think one would have been as good without the complementary traits of the other.

That back 5 with VDS, Rio, Vidic, Evra and a bit of Neville, We Brown and O'Shea at RB was incredible, probably the best I've seen in the PL era. It's probably unfair to elevate one star because the importance was as a unit.
 
Best CB the EPL had ever seen. Physically wise he'd eat Vidic for breakfast.
 
Best CB I have seen play for Utd. Monster of a player and scared the living shit out of the opposition.
 
devilish said:
Nope. Stam was an absolute Terminator.
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I always look at how much of a threat are CB's on corners.

For all his pace and strength Stam wouldn't stick his head in there like Vidic or Bruce.
 
I rated Rio (at his best) over both Jaap and Vidic but all three are absolute leagues above any other CB I've seen play for us.

Watching Vidic and Rio gradually physically and mentally demoralise/scar opposition strikers at OT was always fun. Never got to see Stam live unfortunately.
 
Marwood said:
I always look at how much of a threat are CB's on corners.

For all his pace and strength Stam wouldn't stick his head in there like Vidic or Bruce.
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There is more to corner goals then physicality. That include timing, how the squad is drilled in training, tactics etc. Maguire is an absolute unit especially for the modern game but he doesn't score enough from corners. Stam was a beast. He was stronger then Vidic and far more comfortable with the ball (although not to Rio's extent)
 
The period in between the treble and double, our biggest downfall was being too vulnerable defensively. I think if we had kept Stam to partner Rio and brought in van der Sar to replace Schmeichel instead of the whole Barthez/Carroll/Howard period, we'd have won another CL because we had everything else.

On the flip side, we may never have got the Rio Vidic partnership later on so swings and roundabouts.
 
crossy1686 said:
Vidic's ability gets played up on here to no end. He was an aggressive defender but he wasn’t a great all round defender. He’s comfortably behind the likes of Stam and Rio in terms of ability.
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We're all entitled to our opinion but that's a crap one. Even rival fans would rate Vidic as one of the best if not the best defenders in the premier league era.
 
2001 season Stam was recovering from an injury that seemed to strip him of his pace off the turn. he didnt look great and i remember reading that SAF thought Stam was never going to get back to his best and needed the money so cashed him in. obviously that gamble didnt pay off as Stam was a monster for many years and a massive loss for us.
 
Catch said:
2001 season Stam was recovering from an injury that seemed to strip him of his pace off the turn. he didnt look great and i remember reading that SAF thought Stam was never going to get back to his best and needed the money so cashed him in. obviously that gamble didnt pay off as Stam was a monster for many years and a massive loss for us.
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A bit of Paul McGrath deja vu
 
Best episode of this new "Stick to Football" podcast. Must watch for some of the younger fans, who I feel sometimes don't understand Sir Alex or the standards at this club under him.
 
crossy1686 said:
Vidic's ability gets played up on here to no end. He was an aggressive defender but he wasn’t a great all round defender. He’s comfortably behind the likes of Stam and Rio in terms of ability.
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I'm talking just about who was tougher, braver. Not who was the best overall.

devilish said:
There is more to corner goals then physicality. That include timing, how the squad is drilled in training, tactics etc. Maguire is an absolute unit especially for the modern game but he doesn't score enough from corners. Stam was a beast. He was stronger then Vidic and far more comfortable with the ball (although not to Rio's extent)
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Maguires a threat at least. Its his actual finishing that's let him down.

Stam had the best set piece taker in the world popping in corners and crosses but was never really a presence in that sense. Just like Rio wasn't.

Ultimately it comes down to bravery because to be a threat on corners you have to go where it hurts. I loved Stam but he was never a threat on set pieces despite having the size and strength to be.

I'm not saying he was soft, just that Vidic was another level up in terms of bravery.
 
Nicoseth said:
We're all entitled to our opinion but that's a crap one. Even rival fans would rate Vidic as one of the best if not the best defenders in the premier league era.
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To be honest, most rival fans I have ever spoken to hugely underrate Vidic. Most don't seem to remember that he won player of the year once, let alone twice!

Anyway, personal rankings for me are Rio then Stam then Vidic. Although they are all incredible - what a blessing it has been to have watched the 3 consistently. Hopefully we can start to bring in more truly elite players to enjoy at our club over the coming years instead of some of the good but not great players we have had in more recent times.
 
Marwood said:
I'm talking just about who was tougher, braver. Not who was the best overall.



Maguires a threat at least. Its his actual finishing that's let him down.

Stam had the best set piece taker in the world popping in corners and crosses but was never really a presence in that sense. Just like Rio wasn't.

Ultimately it comes down to bravery because to be a threat on corners you have to go where it hurts. I loved Stam but he was never a threat on set pieces despite having the size and strength to be.

I'm not saying he was soft, just that Vidic was another level up in terms of bravery.
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First of all toughness and bravery are two different things altogether. Keane was 5ft11 and Gattuso was 5ft10 and they would have gone through a brick wall for their team. Secondly as said, goals from headers depend on many aspects including

a- timing
b- tactics
c- delivery
d- players around you

Dwight Yorke was 5ft10 and was not a particularly tough player but he scored a lot of headers. The treble side was not particularly tall. Out of the first team only Stam, Johnsen and Schmeichel were beyond the 6ft mark. Schmeichel was a GK, Teddy was a squad player, Beckham (6ft) was the corner taker which means that Stam and Johnsen were double marked in terms of corners. The 2008 CL winner squad had VDS, Rio, Wes, Carrick and Ronaldo over the 6ft mark with the likes of Oshea and Fletcher on the bench. Football had also change throughout time thus restricting what defenders can do to stop a player from scoring.

Stam was a machine. His physical frame was imposing, he rarely ever committed any mistakes, he was comfortable with the ball and his recovery was amazing considering his size. Unlike Vidic (ie Fernando Torres) I can't think of any striker who could claim Stam's scalp on a regular basis. The closest thing I can think of is Pippo Inzaghi. There again, we're talking of a players whose performances were more akin of winning Oscars for best performances then Balon d'ors
 
crossy1686 said:
Vidic's ability gets played up on here to no end. He was an aggressive defender but he wasn’t a great all round defender. He’s comfortably behind the likes of Stam and Rio in terms of ability.
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I think the opposite is true, if you were on here in 2011 everyone thought Vidic was better than Rio, and that that was true for all of our title winning campaigns except 07/08. Since they retired Rio's stock has grown hugely (I think this is due to the perception that he would survive modern football better than Vida) while Vidic's has gone down.
 
norm87cro said:
I just felt Vidic would put his head in a grinding machine on the line and as hard as Stam was I never got that impression from him but as you said its all opinions at this point
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Yip. No issues with anyone saying Vidic is a top CH for us (no.4 prob on my list). Excellent player (ability and mentality) despite Liverpool fans and 13 year olds going “yeah but Torres”… :rolleyes:
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Yip. No issues with anyone saying Vidic is a top CH for us (no.4 prob on my list). Excellent player (ability and mentality) despite Liverpool fans and 13 year olds going “yeah but Torres”… :rolleyes:
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We won the league that year and he got schooled by Etoo too but thats the type of CB he was. Fearless and uncompromising and sometimes you get humiliated. The 1 0 West Ham win with the Giggs winner was prime Vidic
 
devilish said:
First of all toughness and bravery are two different things altogether. Keane was 5ft11 and Gattuso was 5ft10 and they would have gone through a brick wall for their team. Secondly as said, goals from headers depend on many aspects including

a- timing
b- tactics
c- delivery
d- players around you

Dwight Yorke was 5ft10 and was not a particularly tough player but he scored a lot of headers. The treble side was not particularly tall. Out of the first team only Stam, Johnsen and Schmeichel were beyond the 6ft mark. Schmeichel was a GK, Teddy was a squad player, Beckham (6ft) was the corner taker which means that Stam and Johnsen were double marked in terms of corners. The 2008 CL winner squad had VDS, Rio, Wes, Carrick and Ronaldo over the 6ft mark with the likes of Oshea and Fletcher on the bench. Football had also change throughout time thus restricting what defenders can do to stop a player from scoring.

Stam was a machine. His physical frame was imposing, he rarely ever committed any mistakes, he was comfortable with the ball and his recovery was amazing considering his size. Unlike Vidic (ie Fernando Torres) I can't think of any striker who could claim Stam's scalp on a regular basis. The closest thing I can think of is Pippo Inzaghi. There again, we're talking of a players whose performances were more akin of winning Oscars for best performances then Balon d'ors
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I'm not sure what Keane and Gattuso's height has to do with anything. I'm not arguing you have to be big to be tough.

You're overthinking this a bit. Vidic was just that bit braver. We don't need to assess tactics or differentiate between toughness and bravery.

Just by watching the two, Vidic was just less bothered about getting hurt. Would throw himself into any situation.
 
eire-red said:
It's a tough call between the top 3 and I think comes down to preference.

I think Rio is the best from that era. He was different than all other CB's at that time with his pace, ability on the ball and passing range.

You could argue that Vidic and Rio should sit on equal footing though, because I don't think one would have been as good without the complementary traits of the other.

That back 5 with VDS, Rio, Vidic, Evra and a bit of Neville, We Brown and O'Shea at RB was incredible, probably the best I've seen in the PL era. It's probably unfair to elevate one star because the importance was as a unit.
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Vidic complimented brilliantly with Rio but also carried every other partner he had whereas it wasn't the same with Rio when he had to play with someone not named Vidic. Vidic's bottom and high level were ridiculously good.

DJ Jeff said:
I think the opposite is true, if you were on here in 2011 everyone thought Vidic was better than Rio, and that that was true for all of our title winning campaigns except 07/08. Since they retired Rio's stock has grown hugely (I think this is due to the perception that he would survive modern football better than Vida) while Vidic's has gone down.
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This is what I think also.
 
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