The players deserve more credit

Status
Not open for further replies.

R.N7

Such tagline. Wow!
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
35,524
Location
Eating a meal, a succulent chinese meal
Supports
a wife, three kids and Eboue
I've seen a lof criticism lately about the way the players have supposedly "downed their tools" this season but I think it's quite amazing that it didn't happen sooner.
They've had to put up with that lame duck manager for almost three years, constantly bailing him out time and time again. There's only so far you can go without having a proper manager. So kudos to them for battling for him for so long.

So, if anything, I think it's Solkjaer that should apologize to the players on social media for not taking his job seriously enough. Not working hard enough on improving his limitations, surrounding himself with mates instead of elite coaches, went on a vacation when his job was on the line. I guess it's kinda hard to do that though in that sort of cult enviroment where he had total backing and safety, like a kid constantly being praised for his infantile drawings.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
3,532
I've seen a lof criticism lately about the way the players have supposedly "downed their tools" this season but I think it's quite amazing that it didn't happen sooner.
They've had to put up with that lame duck manager for almost three years, constantly bailing him out time and time again. There's only so far you can go without having a proper manager. So kudos to them for battling for him for so long.

So, if anything, I think it's Solkjaer that should apologize to the players on social media for not taking his job seriously enough. Not working hard enough on improving his limitations, surrounding himself with mates instead of elite coaches, went on a vacation when his job was on the line. I guess it's kinda hard to do that though in that sort of cult enviroment where he had total backing and safety, like a kid constantly being praised for his infantile drawings.
Its not their place to decide if we keep a manager. They are paid crazy wages to play.
 

RoyKeaneInTurin

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 9, 2021
Messages
23
That only logical reason for that holiday is that he had a job interview in Norway.

Who am I kidding? Who the hell in their right mind would employ Ole? Moyes didn't have a squad, but he wasn't as out of depth as Ole as a manager.
 

Amar__

Geriatric lover
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
20,018
Location
Sarajevo
Supports
MK Dons
I think he should apologise and tag them all in that apology. I think all players should be regarded with another year on their contract that sets them in their 40s, poor babies.
 

Zoo

Full Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
25,811
Trolling is meant to have a bit of humour.
 

Samid

follows Pogue around, fixing his images
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
34,430
Location
Oslo, Norway
Poor Nilsen. Will have to find a new scapegoat now that his weekly punching bag for the last 3 years has been sacked :(
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
9,519
It’s a tough one. Some fans seem to expect players to just play at full capacity regardless but they are human being and if you have a poor boss, that dissatisfaction always then filters into the team.

Should they have stopped trying earlier? No. It’s on the board for sticking with someone they could visibly see from 1st full season didn’t have much of a plan outside buying the best players and counter attack. (It’s also the boards fault they made him permanent too soon & also the board’s fault they saw the collapse when he did become permanent and stuck with him). Did I mention it’s on the board not the players yet?
 

Plant0x84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
837
What an absolute steaming pile.

You don’t have to have a good manager to be professional. You don’t have to have a good manager to try. Our supposedly ‘more talented’ squad shouldn’t need a good manager to be better than less talented players.

I don’t happen to believe the players did ‘down tools’ but I do think the players deserve every bit of criticism they get because they simply haven’t been good enough this season, especially the defenders.
 

Di Maria's angel

Captain of Moanchester United
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
14,140
Location
London
What an absolute steaming pile.

You don’t have to have a good manager to be professional. You don’t have to have a good manager to try. Our supposedly ‘more talented’ squad shouldn’t need a good manager to be better than less talented players.

I don’t happen to believe the players did ‘down tools’ but I do think the players deserve every bit of criticism they get because they simply haven’t been good enough this season, especially the defenders.
They weren't particularly great last season either.
 

ExoduS

Full Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,288
Location
Serbia
I have to agree with this guy. Players play how they practice. It appears our practice sessions were weak. All sports require certain level of "automation". Players are supposed to instinctively make right plays 90% of the time. Our players on another hand did not do that all. They were making mistake after mistake. Ole was a very weak manager who lacked vision. It seems Ole only had a dream, but once he woke up that dream was gone, and reality was too much for him.
 

VanDeBank

Ma’am
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
1,882
Players hadn't downed their tools at all. They just lost believe in the shite tactics after Leicester. I still saw a lot of effort after that despite playing like crap.
 

RedBanker

I love you Ole
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
1,396
I know one player who deserves a huge thank you note from OGS. Saviour of Bacon Mr. Bruno.
 

freeurmind

weak willed
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
5,828
Ole's coaching caused Maguire's mistakes against Leicester and Watford.
 

Class of 1902

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
119
No, they really don't.

Ole was appalling, but the below stats indicate there's a real lack of effort and commitment out on that pitch.

Premier League defensive stats

Total tackles - 20th
Duels won - 20th
Interceptions - 18th
Aerial duels won - 18th
Ball recoveries - 16th

Those numbers are appalling, whatever way you look at them. This isn't absolving Ole of any blame - there's plenty, but you can have Mike Bassett managing this team and we should be expecting and demanding our players to put in more of a shift than the above numbers. They're criminal.
 

Snuffkin

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
641
I never thought the players threw Ole under the bus. They pulled him out of the fire plenty of times. When overlooked players came in they looked motivated.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
7,370
Every player regressed over the seasons through lack of good coaching. That happens in any sport if the training isnt stretching them and evolving over time. I dont think they threw Ole under the bus, they just lost the sharpness. the tactical awareness, fitness simply through not being coached right. Ole was blind or dumb to say the coaching was world class. At the end of the day the buck stopped with him.
 

monosierra

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
372
We have one of the most talented squads in Europe. The players' quality is not matched by the coaching staff's. Its that simple to me. Imagine buying a car with a great engine and rubbish chasis that falls apart when the engine just begins to perform.
 

CallyRed

Full Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
6,161
I agree
Maguire, AWB, McFred etc should be getting the praise they deserve.
 

criticalanalysis

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
3,363
For me it's 50% on the board, 30% on the manager and 20% on the players.

There's no need to debate on the board as they are completely incompetent in terms of a footballing structure. I don't think anyone will argue otherwise.

So then it comes down to what you view as the other 50%. I think most sensible people are fairly correct in that the majority (30%) criticism lays with the manager for failing to provide a platform for the players to succeed on.

I won't say the players deserve credit but I would definitely say some criticism of theirs is sometimes disproportionate compared to Ole.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2021
Messages
588
No, they really don't.

Ole was appalling, but the below stats indicate there's a real lack of effort and commitment out on that pitch.

Premier League defensive stats

Total tackles - 20th
Duels won - 20th
Interceptions - 18th
Aerial duels won - 18th
Ball recoveries - 16th

Those numbers are appalling, whatever way you look at them. This isn't absolving Ole of any blame - there's plenty, but you can have Mike Bassett managing this team and we should be expecting and demanding our players to put in more of a shift than the above numbers. They're criminal.
This strikes me as some surface-level stat-picking of the kind that looks good in tweets but doesn't really say much.

We're 20th in the league for total tackles - City are 19th and Liverpool are 18th (they're obviously the top 2 in terms of possession while we're 6th, so there is a gulf that probably shouldn't be there but it's hardly as if we're just strolling around not bothering to tackle the other team)

We're 19th for interceptions - City are 20th and Liverpool are 17th (averaging half an interception more per 90 minutes than we do). Again, possession plays a big part here.

We're middle-of-the-park for ball recoveries - 12th, behind Liverpool but ahead of City (again) and Chelsea.

We're 15th for aerial duels won per 90, ahead of Liverpool. Man City are 20th. For what it's worth, our aerial duel success rate is actually the best in the league.

( Premier League Stats | FBref.com )

None of these numbers tell me anything about our players "not putting a shift in" or lacking effort, commitment, or whatever you want to call it. We've looked clueless as a unit and individual players have been in terrible form, no arguments there. Let's not get the pitchforks out with the lazy / can't be bothered narrative.
 

Simbo

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
2,961
Imagine needing 1 person in an entire football club to be responsible for you personally to perform basic feats in your profession.
 

Wibble

In Gadus Speramus
Staff
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Messages
79,513
Location
Centreback
Different title - same circular and repetitive discussions covered elsewhere. And now all moot as we will have a new manager and a reset very soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.