The Practice of 'Hazing' Players at Manchester United

fergieisold

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Just read an interesting article in the Guardian about the initiation practices at Old Trafford. They are using United's name as clickbait, as clearly this goes on at other clubs or did go on in the past anyway. At first my reaction was, oh, another whiney left wing Guardian article. But when you actually read some of it it's pretty sick and clearly shouldn't have been something young players were subjected to.

"In football, they know this as the culture of the initiation ceremony. Or hazing, as they know it in the United States. Except it was not a one-off event, as part of a getting‑to‑know‑you process, but more a standard part of life at Old Trafford. And, however degrading it might have been, it was often better to do what was required than risk one of the forfeits put together by the older apprentices or first-year pros.

One was known as “The Lap”, where the boy would be put on a treatment bed, looking through the hole, while the players lined up to kick a ball at his face. Sometimes it would be a flurry of punches to deliver a dead arm, or whacking someone over the head with a ball wrapped in a towel, a practice known as “The Bong”. One apprentice was dressed up in several layers of tracksuits and barricaded into the sauna. Others were bundled into an industrial tumble drier and sent for a spin. There is even the story of one boy, the smallest in his year group, being tied up, gagged and put in a kitbag to be taken to Old Trafford on the bus."

Full article -

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...assage-built-some-characters-but-broke-others
 

A-man

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I wonder if this happens to all new players or only the younger ones? Have difficulties seeing Zlatan agree to being disgraced like that. Or maybe he lined up the team and shot them them in their faces instead?
 

Snafu17

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It was common, a bit shit and had absolutely nothing to do with "building character", at least not in a healthy way, but I'm not sure I get the point of the article? It happened, everybody knows it happened, the class of 92 had a whole segment of how shit it was in their documentary, it's pretty much gone, so the club apparently addressed the issue so what's the point? I'm not sure what he even expects United to do?
 

MDFC Manager

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I wonder if this happens to all new players or only the younger ones? Have difficulties seeing Zlatan agree to being disgraced like that. Or maybe he lined up the team and shot them them in their faces instead?
It's about the academy players by the looks of it.

Can't see any first teamers agreeing to it.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I wonder if this happens to all new players or only the younger ones? Have difficulties seeing Zlatan agree to being disgraced like that. Or maybe he lined up the team and shot them them in their faces instead?
It doesn't happen any more. Even top players like Zlatan would have been initiated in some way though. These days in England it seems to generally involve doing karaoke in front of the squad.
 

Camilo

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It happens, but it's always something I avoided when possible. It doesn't stem from a good place, it's essentially just bullying.... And what does that get you as a team? A group of players who can put up with being bullied?! Wooo.
 

duffer

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It's about the academy players by the looks of it.

Can't see any first teamers agreeing to it.
The new first teamers at Chelsea have to sing a song in front of the squad. That's been a thing for decades.

As far as the initiation stuff in the article, obviously watching you team mates get a boner is weird as feck but I do think weeding out those with a lack of mental toughness has some merit.
 

crossy1686

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Rio has talked about this a lot and spoke about it not being part of the culture at United, tried to find the article but couldn't after a quick search.

He basically said that 'hazing' was rife when he was coming through at West Ham and the older players would make the reserve kids do stuff that was degrading and embarrassing, and it caused resentment and bitterness towards them as they were looked up to by the youth players.

Goes on to say that he made sure that no one under his watch was treated that way when he was at United and youth players there were treated with the respect they deserved.

Obviously can't speak for what happens now but I would be very surprised if a club this size of United with 'duty of care' for these youngsters would allow work place harassment to go unchallenged. In the current climate I would think that nothing goes unnoticed.
 

fergieisold

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The new first teamers at Chelsea have to sing a song in front of the squad. That's been a thing for decades.

As far as the initiation stuff in the article, obviously watching you team mates get a boner is weird as feck but I do think weeding out those with a lack of mental toughness has some merit.
There's merit to the idea of weeding them out but it seems to me potentially dangerous practices like putting them in tumble driers is not the way to do it! I mean the lads you'd hope no when to stop but they really are running a risk of seriously hurting people, even if they don't intend to.
 

jymufc20

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It was common, a bit shit and had absolutely nothing to do with "building character", at least not in a healthy way, but I'm not sure I get the point of the article? It happened, everybody knows it happened, the class of 92 had a whole segment of how shit it was in their documentary, it's pretty much gone, so the club apparently addressed the issue so what's the point? I'm not sure what he even expects United to do?
Things are looking up for us for the first time in years, they have to do their best to try and bring us down (even if it means rehashing an old article)
 

T00lsh3d

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Watched class of 92 recently and I’m sure Scholes and Phil Nev spoke of being stuck in a bag on a bus. Not that either of them seemed particularly bothered.

I’d never happen in today’s world. Players are too fragile, employment law would be brought in too often. Not sure whether that’s a good or bad thing tbh
 

DWelbz19

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Watched class of 92 recently and I’m sure Scholes and Phil Nev spoke of being stuck in a bag on a bus. Not that either of them seemed particularly bothered.

I’d never happen in today’s world. Players are too fragile, employment law would be brought in too often. Not sure whether that’s a good or bad thing tbh
Damn snowflake generation
 

SalfordRed18

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I mean so people really not think this goes on still?

People think football players are upstanding members of society and for the most part they are, but majority (in the UK atleast), are still lads, and this is last culture.

I remember a certain premier league team, hired a bar I worked in for the afternoon once. They were as ladlike as expected, because they're still human at the end of the day.
 

crossy1686

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Watched class of 92 recently and I’m sure Scholes and Phil Nev spoke of being stuck in a bag on a bus. Not that either of them seemed particularly bothered.

I’d never happen in today’s world. Players are too fragile, employment law would be brought in too often. Not sure whether that’s a good or bad thing tbh
It's a bad thing. Bullying, harassment and embarrassing kids who idolise these people is disgraceful behaviour from fully grown men who are insecure some kid is going to come along and take their place in the team.
 

buchansleftleg

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So groups of largely unsupervised boys with time on their hands and little academic oversight descend into bullying and ridiculing younger boys.

Not really that surprising if you have ever read "Lord of the Flies".

It just shows how amatuerish most English clubs acadamies were until recently.

I don't believe the "toughen em up" approach can be achieved through this sort of bullying/teambuilding activities.

I think there are better ways to develop resilience in kids by making them do volunteering/charity work to get some perspective on how lucky they are.
 

Smores

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I personally don't see a lot wrong with team hazing but some of the stuff in that article is a bit extreme and wierd as feck.

I'd hope we still had a more palatable way to toughen the youngsters up and keep their ego in check but i very much doubt it given our dressing room.
 

bleezy

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Watched class of 92 recently and I’m sure Scholes and Phil Nev spoke of being stuck in a bag on a bus. Not that either of them seemed particularly bothered.

I’d never happen in today’s world. Players are too fragile, employment law would be brought in too often. Not sure whether that’s a good or bad thing tbh
I think Nicky Butt said Scholesy was put in the tumble dryer on the Class of 92 documentary too. Again, not something either of them seemed remotely bothered about.
 

T00lsh3d

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Damn snowflake generation
It's a bad thing. Bullying, harassment and embarrassing kids who idolise these people is disgraceful behaviour from fully grown men who are insecure some kid is going to come along and take their place in the team.
It’s be interesting to see how a young Cristiano Ronaldo would have reacted to it.
He was quite soft when he came, but developed to have an incredible mental toughness. Can’t see being dumped in a tumble dryer as the method to use to develop his character though

NB I realise age-wise and as he was brought in as a first teamer he wouldn’t have been ‘hazed’ anyway....I’m talking more about types of character
 

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You can feck off with all this generation snowflake nonsense, but at the same time some “hazing” is to be expected.

I’m completely against some of the extreme (rugby) hazing that I have seen. But kicking a ball at a lad’s face from twenty yards away is harmless. We used to do one where new lads had to lie down on the goal line and lads would have shots from the half way line. Stuff like that is fine.
 

duffer

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You can feck off with all this generation snowflake nonsense, but at the same time some “hazing” is to be expected.

I’m completely against some of the extreme (rugby) hazing that I have seen. But kicking a ball at a lad’s face from twenty yards away is harmless. We used to do one where new lads had to lie down on the goal line and lads would have shots from the half way line. Stuff like that is fine.
From the half way line? Bloody wimps! Those shot were taken from the penalty spot in my school. I think I still have a bruise on my leg. Thankfully everyone was so shit we rarely hit anyone.
 

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From the half way line? Bloody wimps! Those shot were taken from the penalty spot in my school. I think I still have a bruise on my leg. Thankfully everyone was so shit we rarely hit anyone.
Yeah well you southerners can’t have a puddle outside Pret without crying. Up north we used to do it from the six yard box and we wouldn’t use a football we would use a spanner.
 

duffer

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Yeah well you southerners can’t have a puddle outside Pret without crying. Up north we used to do it from the six yard box and we wouldn’t use a football we would use a spanner.
We used to douse the ball in petrol and light it before playing down here.

You northererns and your half way line bollocks, I bet you wore gloves and protective goggles as well.
 

UpWithRivers

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Its just accepted bullying. The smaller lads always get the worst of it. In my rugby days someone would always get kidnapped by the away team. You could end up 8 hours from home just wearing your rugby kit...and it would never be the 6 foot fat lads i.e me. :-)
 

harms

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Watched class of 92 recently and I’m sure Scholes and Phil Nev spoke of being stuck in a bag on a bus. Not that either of them seemed particularly bothered.

I’d never happen in today’s world. Players are too fragile, employment law would be brought in too often. Not sure whether that’s a good or bad thing tbh
Seriously?
 

Maticmaker

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Sounds like something leftover from the post war years.

Right up to the mid 60's most apprentices, in whatever trade, were 'initiated' especially on Shrove Tuesdays, where once the initiation' was over, or if you could survive until lunchtime by hiding away somewhere, then you had the rest of the day off.

Printers apprentices suffered with printers ink being lavished upon them, especially in sensitive areas. In Engineering/Shipbuilding it was either machine lubricants/coolants, e.g grease or a mixture of soluble-oil and water known as 'Mystic', or there was marking out 'blue' used (Ref: Billy Connolly 'Made in Scotland' programme, where he talks about having his nose painted blue). None of this was very nice, but I don't recall it was ever done to build character, if anything it was to show the apprentices who ruled the roost and to give an excuse to let the apprentices have half a day off...with pay, something unheard of under any other circumstances!

Days gone by, as they say 'another country'
 

Raw

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Wasn't there something about Beckham having to masturbate to a picture of Clayton Blackmore while he was in the youth team?
 

#07

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It’s be interesting to see how a young Cristiano Ronaldo would have reacted to it.
He was quite soft when he came, but developed to have an incredible mental toughness. Can’t see being dumped in a tumble dryer as the method to use to develop his character though

NB I realise age-wise and as he was brought in as a first teamer he wouldn’t have been ‘hazed’ anyway....I’m talking more about types of character
Rio and Fletch have discussed the methods used to toughen Ronaldo up. These range from pranks, like messing with his clothes and teasing him about his looks, to Sir Alex declaring no fouls would be given in training which allowed them to kick the crap out of Ronaldo at training without punishment. Rio speaks quite admiringly about how Ronaldo never allowed himself to be intimidated and always denanded the ball. If you ever see Roy Keane talk about Ronaldo the warmth and respect that comes across is genuine. That's where it comes from.
 

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We used to douse the ball in petrol and light it before playing down here.

You northererns and your half way line bollocks, I bet you wore gloves and protective goggles as well.
In the west midlands you were tied to the crossbar and they hit you with a demolition ball.
 

T00lsh3d

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Rio and Fletch have discussed the methods used to toughen Ronaldo up. These range from pranks, like messing with his clothes and teasing him about his looks, to Sir Alex declaring no fouls would be given in training which allowed them to kick the crap out of Ronaldo at training without punishment. Rio speaks quite admiringly about how Ronaldo never allowed himself to be intimidated and always denanded the ball. If you ever see Roy Keane talk about Ronaldo the warmth and respect that comes across is genuine. That's where it comes from.
:drool: That’s sound

Wasn't there something about Beckham having to masturbate to a picture of Clayton Blackmore while he was in the youth team?
....that’s not
 

harms

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I don’t see things like induction rituals as a bad thing per se. Obviously if taken too far it’s a bad thing but that’s true for so many things in life.
You don't see degrading and often sadistic rituals as something necessarily bad? We're not talking about Chelsea's "sing a song" thing.
 

SteveJ

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I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."
 

duffer

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I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."
You got a whole lump of poison for yourself? Lucky.