The status of British managers

[simplyared]

Started a thread on the possibilitiy of a certain British manager being a future manager at Utd. It lasted 15 mins before getting binned. No problem with that!

However, interested in developing the question further, looking at it from a more general point of view and therefore decided to turn to the general forum to ventilate the views others may have regarding this subject.

My question now would be: Looking at the current stock of British managers in the PL do you think any one of them has the credentials to become a manager of a top club? Aware of the on-going circus regarding the rotation of some of these managers in clubs in the lower half of the table, obviously shortening the list substantially, but can we find anyone?

 

[engulfing]

Never hire a British manager, other than fergie it never turns out well.

 

[Podgy Poet]

British managers will seldom get a fair shake, as to manage a top club they will have to somehow get into the top 6 and/or win trophies with a budget many, many times less than the established top clubs, and do it more than once to even be considered while playing expansive and progressive football! Absolutely fecking ridiculous.

Having said that, even in a fair world I don't see a British manager around now worthy. Chris Hughton isn't quite there and Sean Dyche's football would be seen as too unappealing. Maybe Graham Potter or Chris Wilder one day.

 

[SCP]

Depends on the style of football you want to implement.

For instance if you want your team to at least try to play atractive football, maybe try someone like Graham Potter, Eddie Howe or Brendan Rodgers.

If you want someone more result oriented, Dyche or Allardyce.

Truth must be told, at coaching level a lot needs to be done to reach the levels of German, Italian, Argentinians, Spanish or the Portuguese imo.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The issue is that every club is looking for a foreign manager when they are looking for a new manager. And when it hits the fan they will recycle through the same old names(Pulis, Moyes, Big Sam, Pardew, Hughes) over and over again. If there is some progressive type young British manager out there they do not get a chance. In other countries you see guys get big jobs because of the work they did with youth teams or reserve sides. You do not really see that in England.

 

[Gio]

The problem is the top Premier League clubs have raised the managerial bar in the last couple of seasons with Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, Pochettino and Conte. That's a damn sight better than only a few years ago when Pellegrini, Van Gaal, Sherwood and Rodgers were managing those clubs.

It's safe to say none of those involved in the bottom half merry-go-round are capable of it. It's too early to write off Howe and Dyche as they are still developing their career although it would be premature to push them into a top job yet. The only one at this point in time is Rodgers given he has already done well with a top club in the Premier League and whose strengths and weaknesses are better suited to one of the best teams in the league.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Brendan Rodgers is a good manager, capable of winning big IMO.

 

[SCP]

The issue is that every club is looking for a foreign manager when they are looking for a new manager. And when it hits the fan they will recycle through the same old names(Pulis, Moyes, Big Sam, Pardew, Hughes) over and over again. If there is some progressive type young British manager out there they do not get a chance. In other countries you see guys get big jobs because of the work they did with youth teams or reserve sides. You do not really see that in England.

Graham Potter,Eddie Howe even Rodgers have a positive approach to football, is it enough for the top 6 with multi million pounds demanding win at all costs?

Dyche or Allardyce are more the type of safety first football, don't know if they suit the profile of Champions League clubs.

 

[golden_blunder]

The only one close to that level at this point in time is Brendan Rodgers, who coaches an attacking style and was one slip away from probably winning the PL. the question is whether a top 4’club would take a chance on him or whether he’d need to take a different job back in the PL first. I don’t think that coaching in Scotland is doing much for his career

 

[SCP]

The only one close to that level at this point in time is Brendan Rodgers, who coaches an attacking style and was one slip away from probably winning the PL. the question is whether a top 4’club would take a chance on him or whether he’d need to take a different job back in the PL first. I don’t think that coaching in Scotland is doing much for his career

Truth must be told he was close to winning in 2014 but there was no Conte, Guardiola, Klopp or Pochettino in the top clubs, the level is much higher now than it was.

 

[Dancfc]

British managers will seldom get a fair shake, as to manage a top club they will have to somehow get into the top 6 and/or win trophies with a budget many, many times less than the established top clubs, and do it more than once to even be considered while playing expansive and progressive football! Absolutely fecking ridiculous.

Having said that, even in a fair world I don't see a British manager around now worthy. Chris Hughton isn't quite there and Sean Dyche's football would be seen as too unappealing. Maybe Graham Potter or Chris Wilder one day.

British manager's do get chances at big jobs.

Roy got the Liverpool job, fecked up spectacularly yet still got the national team job. Hughes got the City job, Moyes United, McLaren England, Allardyce England and Everton, Sherwood Spurs, could even argue Newcastle for Pardew was a biggish job, also Giggs has walked straight into the Wales job. Out of the regular British manager's in the PL in recent years the only one who hasn't had some sort of big chance and has no chance of ever getting one is Pulis.

British manager's have had plenty of chances at top jobs in the last decade or so, the problem has been, not one of them took their chance, not a single one. I mean Poch, Conte and Klopp all got to where they are by managing small teams then taking their big chance when it came, Roy, Sam, Hughes etc have all been presented with chances to do the same but fecked up.

 

[Hawks2008]

Well, often times it isn't just the big clubs fault for not taking a punt on British coaches (Moyes, Hughes, Hodgson, and others have gotten their hands on top jobs and failed). Many clubs in the bottom half of the table would rather hop aboard the Pulis/Allardyce/Pardew/Moyes merry go round than give an up and coming manager a chance. Also, with many British coaches I see a reluctance in them to try their hand overseas unlike foreign coaches and just seem to hope to get handed a PL job down the line.

 

[Snow]

It's hard to say. There are some managers at top club that got their foot in the managerial door at a top club and they haven't really had to "earn" it. A combination of good timing of familiarity got them the job to begin with.

In the PL you've seen the same crop of managers being rotated between club without hardly any results, thus effectively not opening up many opportunites for new managers.

I don't think you can look past what Sean Dyche has been doing for Burnley. The town is smaller than Reykjavik, it's got a 22k seater and not much money but here he is only 5 points behind Arsenal. Their squad is almost all British/Irish. He might be able to do a good job at a much bigger club. It's hard to say because this has been his managerial career, not many divas to deal with and he's been able to build this up.

Eddie Howe is only 40. He's got a Bournemouth squad that people look on paper and think "They're not going to make it this year" and here he is comfortably away from relegation with a team that plays decent football. His core is also very much English and he's had to deal with long-term injuries to several of his big signings. 40 years old and has been managing for 10 years. If he's not one of the most promising managers in football then I don't know how you can call a manager promising. It wouldn't surprise me if he was in contention for the Arsenal job.

Not so long ago we saw Chris Hughton get the Newcastle job as a caretaker. He's done a bang up job of managing Brighton.

So the chances are there. Maybe not a great deal of chances in the PL because it's a huge league and therefor also should be considering the very best from all over the world. It's also a league where managers don't last long anymore, there's little patience for the people that handle the money, I mean players, so it might just be better to look at the opportunities in the Championship which has a mix of the grittiness that comes with "lower league" football as well as the high expectations of big clubs all in a very strong competition. It's almost a top 5 league after all so not a bad place to start.

 

[Minimalist]

I do think it's hard to understand why a British manager can't do as well at big clubs compared to their continental alternatives. They have all the resources that you might need.

There probably is an unwillingness to take a chance on some of them. Probably stemming from the gaffs made by Moyes and Hodgson moving to bigger clubs. I'm not really sure why that has to rule out others though (say an Eddie Howe or whoever). I mean foreign managers fail all the time and we keep going after them.

 

[Grylte]

Sam Allardyce though?!

‘I’m not suited to Bolton or Blackburn, I would be more suited to Inter Milan or Real Madrid. It wouldn’t be a problem to me to go and manage those clubs because I would win the double or the league every time. ‘Give me Manchester United or Chelsea and I would do the same, it wouldn’t be a problem. It’s not where I’m suited to, it’s just where I’ve been for most of the time. ‘It’s not a problem to take me into the higher reaches of the Champions League or Premier League and would make my job a lot easier in winning it.”

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Sam Allardyce though?!

‘I’m not suited to Bolton or Blackburn, I would be more suited to Inter Milan or Real Madrid. It wouldn’t be a problem to me to go and manage those clubs because I would win the double or the league every time. ‘Give me Manchester United or Chelsea and I would do the same, it wouldn’t be a problem. It’s not where I’m suited to, it’s just where I’ve been for most of the time. ‘It’s not a problem to take me into the higher reaches of the Champions League or Premier League and would make my job a lot easier in winning it.”

Well....... Mourinho has managed all of those sides.

 

[K2K]

British managers should get out of their comfort zone and go manage elsewhere in Europe.

Build up their stock.


After the Moyes debacle, very few top clubs will be making appointments that are largely punts and want prior proven success.

 

[Akshay]

British managers should get out of their comfort zone and go manage elsewhere in Europe.

Build up their stock.


After the Moyes debacle, very few top clubs will be making appointments that are largely punts and want prior proven success.

Exactly. If it's so hard to break through in the Premier League, why don't they try their hand abroad? The reason is that most of them don't have the tactical variety to cope with a different league and aren't willing to adapt to a new culture and language. Gary Neville's stint in Valencia was the perfect example of this.

 

[B20]

Pochettino is a good example of why British managers don't last long at the highest level. Got the job in similar circumstances to what you would expect from an up and coming british manager. And unlike Hughes, Hodgson, Moyes et al. has actually shown his class over an extended period and raised the level of the team.

There are no british managers around, save Dyche perhaps, doing what Pochettino was doing for southampton though.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Depends on the style of football you want to implement.

For instance if you want your team to at least try to play atractive football, maybe try someone like Graham Potter, Eddie Howe or Brendan Rodgers.

If you want someone more result oriented, Dyche or Allardyce.

Truth must be told, at coaching level a lot needs to be done to reach the levels of German, Italian, Argentinians, Spanish or the Portuguese imo.

Apart from the long ball, what is the key difference between Dyche and Italian and Portuguese tactics? I mean Mourinho does actually favour the long ball and when Queiroz set up our team it was the worst football we played in the Fergie era, compact and completely lacking adventure.

I don't see a major difference in what Juventus do and Burnley tactically, they just sit and counter but play along the ground more to get up the pitch. Is that not a consequence of having better players though?

 

[KirkDuyt]

Has a British manager ever had a job on foreign soil (not counting the wally with the brolly)?

 

[DimitriusFalcao]

Has a British manager ever had a job on foreign soil (not counting the wally with the brolly)?

Bobby Robson at Barça, Toshack at Madrid, Moyes at Sociedad to name just a few. Robson managed a few foreign teams. A lot of the early Barcelona managers were British too

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Has a British manager ever had a job on foreign soil (not counting the wally with the brolly)?

Roy Hodgson has managed all over the place. Clubs in Sweden (won a bunch of titles there with different clubs, Malmo hall of fame, won more titles there than any other manager), Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Italy, and was the national team manager for Switzerland, United Arab Emirates and Finland.

He's probably a bit past it, but he's had a great career, primarily overseas. Doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's achieved infinitely more than the names he is usually lumped with like Allardyce and Pardew.

 

[Sunspear17]

Most of them play horrible football. Yes it might be effective short term, but it won't attract good players. British managers need to start learning about the game elsewhere around the world. Also, the obsession with physical players over technical ability is another issue.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Has a British manager ever had a job on foreign soil (not counting the wally with the brolly)?

Bobby Robson at Barça, Toshack at Madrid, Moyes at Sociedad to name just a few. Robson managed a few foreign teams. A lot of the early Barcelona managers were British too

Bobby Robson managed PSV x 2, Sporting, Porto and Barca.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Roy Hodgson has managed all over the place. Clubs in Sweden (won a bunch of titles there with different clubs, Malmo hall of fame, won more titles there than any other manager), Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Italy, and was the national team manager for Switzerland, United Arab Emirates and Finland.

He's probably a bit past it, but he's had a great career, primarily overseas. Doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's achieved infinitely more than the names he is usually lumped with like Allardyce and Pardew.

Yeah wasnt meant negatively, just couldn't think of any on the top of my head.

Personally I kind of like the British managers, even the guys like Big Sam, Pullis, Pardew and the other 6 managers that managed all English teams. They seem like guys that hang around your local FC on a saturday. The old man that's always there after the game. Who's grumpy in the morning, but gets jollyer with every pint he downs.

 

[Reiver]

Roy Hodgson has managed all over the place. Clubs in Sweden (won a bunch of titles there with different clubs, Malmo hall of fame, won more titles there than any other manager), Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Italy, and was the national team manager for Switzerland, United Arab Emirates and Finland.

He's probably a bit past it, but he's had a great career, primarily overseas. Doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's achieved infinitely more than the names he is usually lumped with like Allardyce and Pardew.

Agree with you. Ok, last few years haven't gone well at international and club level but he's had a great career overall. The likes of Pardew shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Hodgson.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Yeah wasnt meant negatively, just couldn't think of any on the top of my head.

Personally I kind of like the British managers, even the guys like Big Sam, Pullis, Pardew and the other 6 managers that managed all English teams. They seem like guys that hang around your local FC on a saturday. The old man that's always there after the game. Who's grumpy in the morning, but gets jollyer with every pint he downs.

I'm sure it wasn't. Quite rightly you'd struggle to think of many off hand, as there haven't been a lot, and even harder to think of some who have been a success in the last 20 or 30 years. The most prolific in recent years being Neville and Moyes and they're only known for being total failures. The memory of Neville shouting "Rapido! Rapido!" on the touchline still makes me cringe.


Just looking it up, out of all the current Premier League managers, Roy Hodgson and Jose Mourinho have won the most top flight league titles to date, both winning 8. That'd make a good pub quiz question.

 

[simplyared]

I do think it's hard to understand why a British manager can't do as well at big clubs compared to their continental alternatives. They have all the resources that you might need.

There probably is an unwillingness to take a chance on some of them. Probably stemming from the gaffs made by Moyes and Hodgson moving to bigger clubs. I'm not really sure why that has to rule out others though (say an Eddie Howe or whoever). I mean foreign managers fail all the time and we keep going after them.

Agree with this!

 

[TheGame]

Has a British manager ever had a job on foreign soil (not counting the wally with the brolly)?

Souness

 

[FootballHQ]

Howe could certainly do a top job I reckon if given the chance.

Plays modern pressing/possession game and seems to be good dealing with players.

I'd say he'd be a better fit at the top than Dyche who plays a similar way to likes of Moyes and Martin O'Neill. Think Dyche would be better as international manager given the way he organises his teams.

It's difficult to see where they'd get the chance. It's well known Abramovich dosen't rate British managers which is why he's never come close to appointing one in his 15 years owning Chelsea, Man. United understandbly scarred from giving Moyes a chance and Arsenal will surely go continential when Wenger eventually goes.

Just leaves Man. City and Liverpool. Man. City apparently quite liked Brendan Rodgers and thought if they couldn't get Pep his football style would've fitted them well. Liverpool did go for Rodgers so most recent case of top 4 club appointing british manager.

Other step would be go to Everton, take the europa league seriously when they qualify for it and win that. Hodgson getting to europa league final in 2010 pretty much got him the Liverpool job.

Would Unai Emery have got anywhere near the PSG job if he hadn't been winning europa leagues at Sevilla? Winning trophies gets you noticed, simply as that. English managers don't generally do it anymore.

 

[simplyared]

Surprising that Eddie Howe’s name has only been mentioned 4 times. Think he’s got the right DNA in him to be a top manager in Europe. As a player one of the most promising young CB’s in the country having his career cut short by serious injury. Thinking of a certain Brian Clough who went through exactly the same experience.

Brendon Rogers’ name put forward by the majority which I would go along with. Can’t understand what he’s doing in Scottish football. Getting a battering in the CL every year can’t be encouraging to say the latest. Thinking about his earlier connections with Chelsea and the possibility of Conte leaving: anyone see him as a candidate for that job?

Would have liked to have seen what Allardyce could have done with the England job Not going to happen but curious to know how he would perform at a big club working with top players. Think his stint at Newcastle probably ended his chances of getting a job at top level.

 

[FootballHQ]

Everton is a big job.

The expectations given what they were spending last summer was to fight for top 6 not just scrape staying up.

Big Sam is too negative in away games. They only just managed to beat an awful 10 man Stoke.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't know if it's still accurate but few years ago there were three things that prevented british managers from going abroad and gain the same experience foreign managers have. Unwillingness to learn a new language, to take a far smaller salary and giving up a lot of power because continental clubs rarely use managers, they have head coaches that are expected to mainly teach and coach.

 

[Schneckerl]

They aren't really challenged. It seems once you're in you can fail over and over and still get a high paying EPL job regardless.

 

[FootballHQ]

A few have gone recently.

McLaren did well in Holland winning the title and that got him noticed by Wolfsburg who had recently won the Bundesliga. They still had a decent squad with likes of Kjaer, Diego and Dzeko but when he was sacked they were just above the relegation zone.

Everyone knows the limited impact Neville and Moyes had in La Liga.

If those don't take their chance then others will shy away.

In 80s Venables won league with Barca then you see Toshack given chance by Real Madrid and he wins the league aswell then Sir Bobby gets a chance at Barca then Hodgson turns up at Inter etc.

Nowadays the elite CL clubs would never think of appointing one as generally they're percieved as not being tactically flexible enough and not good enough dealing with star players.

 

[R'hllor]

State of British managers might be on breaking point, it seems new generation must be more brave but sadly think they will choose a path of older ones because it gives them more jobs/money due merry go around circle. Also, fgn managers are not standing on way of young British ones, managers like Pardiola are on their way. All those 40pts managers and then feck it till rest of the season, not showing desire to push hard etc.

 

[FootballHQ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9390250.stm

Left Wolfsburg one point above relegation. He had Benaglio, Andrea Barzagli, Kjaer, Diego, Josue, Mandzukic and Edin Dzeko as regular players in his half season there.

Kind of proves my point. English coach can't motivate and get focused performances out of proven international and european quality players like those above.

 

[Bepi]

Apart from the long ball, what is the key difference between Dyche and Italian and Portuguese tactics? I mean Mourinho does actually favour the long ball and when Queiroz set up our team it was the worst football we played in the Fergie era, compact and completely lacking adventure.

I don't see a major difference in what Juventus do and Burnley tactically, they just sit and counter but play along the ground more to get up the pitch. Is that not a consequence of having better players though?

This post summarises the cultural problem with continental football really, which is taught and done as chess more than rugby over here.

 

[roonster09]

This post summarises the cultural problem with continental football really, which is taught and done as chess more than rugby over here.

This post summarises that Serie A fans still live in 90s.