The Third Basketball Fantasy Draft R1 - Skizzo vs Sarni

With players at peak, who will win this match?

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
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Team Skizzo:

PG - Steph Curry, Damian Lillard
SG - Reggie Miller, Derek Fisher
SF - Paul Pierce, Giannis Antetokounmpo
PF - Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh
Center - David Robinson, Karl-Anthony Towns

Steph Curry
- 2 x NBA Champion, 2 x NBA MVP, 4 x NBA All-Star
- Led the NBA in scoring and steals in 2016
- Averages 43.8% from 3-point range, with an average of 6.8 APG and 22.8 PPG over his career
- Can drive to the basket, score from mid-range or beyond the arc
- Member of the 50-40-90 club in 2016 (one of only 7 members)
- Holds multiple 3-point records

Reggie Miller
- 5 x NBA All Star
- Retired as the all time leader in 3-pointers
- Member of the 50-40-90 club in 1994 (the second of only 7 members)

Paul "The Truth" Pierce
- NBA Champion and NBA Finals MVP from 2008
- 10 x NBA All Star
- One of only three players to score over 20,000 points with the Celtics
- Holds Celtics record for most 3-point FG's made, and is second in points scored, seventh in rebounds, fifth in total assists, and first in total steals.
- Played in a "Big Three" in Boston with Rondo, and Garnett.
- Clutch player who always took his game up another level in the playoffs, including a finals MVP performance in 2008

Anthony Davis
- First round, first overall pick in the 2012 draft
- In only 5 years in the league, he's a 4 x NBA All Star, made 2 NBA First Teams, 2 x NBA Defensive Second team, 2 x Block Leader
- Youngest player to score 59 or more points in an NBA game
- At 6'11, he's solid enough to protect the rim, but athletic enough to guard smaller players


David Robinson
- 2 x NBA Champion, NBA MVP (1995), 10 x NBA All Star, NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1992), NBA Scoring Champion (1994), NBA rebounding leader (1991), NBA Blocks leader (1992)
- 22 games with 40 or more points, with a high of 71!
- Recorded only the 4th Quadruple-double with 34 points, 10 rebounds, 10 assists, and 10 blocked shots (with 2 steals thrown in for good measure)
- One of only five players to score 70 or more points in a game.
- One of two players to lead the league in scoring, rebounding, and blocked shots during his career.
- Only player besides Jordan to win Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, and MVP during his career.

Bench
Chris Bosh and Derek Fisher using their experience as talented role players, who are both capable of putting points on the scoreboard and have experience in big games with big players.
Greek Freak, KA Towns and Lillard bringing their explosive energy off the bench to keep things at a high tempo when necessary, and can all run the floor.

Advantages
Curry and Miller in a set-up similar to how Curry and Thompson play, both great all time shooters who can knock down big shots, and who have both made some huge clutch plays for their franchises.
Too many players who can be the "go-to" guy. Robinson and Curry have both been Scoring Champions, Pierce and Miller can both drain mid to long rangers and spread the floor, and who else would help match up on Davis?

Team Sarni:

PG - Steve Nash 30 mins / Penny Hardaway 10 mins / Tony Parker 8 mins - Nash is one of the best playmakers ever, volume scorer and was a facilitator for several challenging teams. He's going to bother Curry a lot on defense and exploit Curry's defensive weaknesses. He won't always play against Curry though, in second and third quarter I want to use him against Lillard as he'd greatly exploit Lillard's defensive weaknesses, and if that leaves Penny Hardaway, a defensive stud and a player much bigger than Curry, playing against Curry, that's going to be fun.

SG - Ray Allen 28 mins / Penny Hardaway 20 mins - a top 3 ever NBA shooter, championship winner and one of the best clutch players in the NBA. I expect him to be left wide open quite a lot with Reggie Miller trying to help out Curry and especially Lillard with defending Nash and Penny, and you just cannot leave Ray Allen open. Penny on the other hand presents me with great playmaking skills, shooting, defense and great size as backup. I think I have a good advantage in shooting guard position which I feel I will need to make good use of.

SF - Paul George 28 mins / Gordon Hayward 20 mins - PG13 is a truly versatile player who's great on both ends of the court and pretty much used to being number one on his team for basically entire career. He's going to cause Paul Pierce a lot of trouble on the offense and he is more than capable of defending him. However, I also intend to shift him for Hayward to put Hayward on Pierce a little more, as George will be needed to limit Giannis' impact, although with Giannis' lack of shooting I think my second unit can more than handle him (Hardaway is going to double up when needed).

PF - Shawn Kemp 36 mins / LaMarcus Aldridge 12 mins - Kemp, a true Seattle legend, great post scorer and terrific rebounder, competitive defender. He's a good matchup with Bosh but I also feel I will need to put him on Anthony Davis a little to give AD something to think about, thus creating Aldridge v Bosh matchup. I think Kemp's stamina and motor will allow him to play 34 minutes in this game and cause Bosh and Davis, who have never really played against this type of forward much, a lot of problems on the offense. Kemp will play a lot more than Aldridge as I feel he suits this game better.

C - Hakeem Olajuwon 32 mins / Marc Gasol 16 mins - my number one player, I intend to start him but then also exploit his huge advantage over Skizzo's back up center, Towns, so I don't actually mind putting him to the bench when the first team is still playing as I believe Gasol can currently defend Robinson and cause him a lot of trouble with his recently developed perimeter game. Hakeem will then get 8-10 minutes against Towns in the game and eat him alive with his post up skills. Gasol in my second unit is also going to help defend Anthony Davis when needed.

My three main advantages:

- Steve Nash is a bad matchup for Curry and Lillard, neither of whom are great defenders ready to compete against a volume scorer like him. Curry is used to playing in a functioning team who defend as a whole which is not going to happen with his current set up, and Steve Nash is going to exploit the hell out of it. Also, I have an opportunity to put Penny Hardaway in the line up if I need to close down the backcourt and a long defender like him can easily take care of Miller and Curry if they find themselves shooting lights out. I could also play Hardaway and George in the backcourt and that completely nullifies any possibility of Skizzo getting any joy there, in the meantime I don't think he has the tools in his backcourt to nullify mine if those guys find themselves on fire.

- Skizzo does not really have an option to double up Nash (or any other point guard) on defense because that's going to leave Ray Allen open, and you don't want Ray Allen to be open EVER. I have some great passers on my team who are going to find him open anyway, and this is also another opportunity which I feel I am going to need to make good use of.

- Hakeem is my true superstar, when I feed it to him down low, he's going to exploit Robinson and especially Towns, who is IMO a terrible matchup for him at such a young age. A prime Hakeem eats KAT alive and I am going to make sure that he gets to play against him for some minutes at least. And benching him does not make me vulnerable because my bench center, Gasol, is possibly the best defender in the league currently, with playmaking skills that are going to involve other players heavily, and his rebounding weaknesses are going to be more than compensated by Kemp being around.
 
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I fecked up the biographies a bit, thought I had to describe players and how they will be utilized :lol:
 
Sarni said:
I fecked up the biographies a bit, thought I had to describe players and how they will be utilized :lol:
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No that is what you should be doing. Strategy is more important than how many All-Star games one played in.
 
RDCR07 said:
For me both teams look unbalanced. Its like picking the lesser of two evils.
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Why unbalanced? I think I have done well enough in balancing the team while looking to pick players who have not played together. I have good interior defense and make up for slight lack of it in my first choice backcourt by having Hardaway on the bench and George (a very good perimeter defender which often gets overlooked) in my backcourt. Also, interior defense is GOOD.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
- Skizzo does not really have an option to double up Nash (or any other point guard) on defense because that's going to leave Ray Allen open, and you don't want Ray Allen to be open EVER. I have some great passers on my team who are going to find him open anyway, and this is also another opportunity which I feel I am going to need to make good use of.
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We can say the same about you vs Curry and Miller though right?
 
syrian_scholes said:
We can say the same about you vs Curry and Miller though right?
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I think more so in our case (although maybe I'm slightly biased :p ). Especially when talking about Nash as a volume scorer, his best season averaged less than half as many PPG as Curry's best. When Curry gets hot, he's dropping points. He can create his own space and shot if necessary, and could use that quick release to get over Nash.
 
Akshay said:
Hakeem is definitely better than Robinson but this match looks set for a back-court shoot-out. I feel Curry and Miller are going to win that more times than Nash and Allen.
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I don't know about that, Nash was also in the 50-40-90 club and not only for 1 season and Allen still holds the number for most 3 pts made.
 
syrian_scholes said:
I don't know about that, Nash was also in the 50-40-90 club and not only for 1 season and Allen still holds the number for most 3 pts made.
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At the end of the day, Allen and Miller cancel each other out but Curry is a better shooter than Nash hence the matchup goes to Curry and Miller.
 
That's why I am playing Nash for 28 minutes and Hardaway for 20 minutes. Penny was a good defender and he was so much longer than Curry that Curry will find it tough. On the other hand, Lillard has no chance to defend Nash. Please consider this while looking at our backcourts.
 
syrian_scholes said:
We can say the same about you vs Curry and Miller though right?
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Well, again that is where backups play the part. I can easily send George to help on perimeter when Giannis plays because Giannis cannot shoot. All my backcourt players in this game and both my small forward are good shooters.

If I am struggling greatly defending Curry and Miller, I send Penny and George to the backcourt, and play Hayward at 3. It's hard to score three pointers on players much taller than you, ask players who are trying to outscore Klay.
 
Giannis shouldnt even be in the conversation for draft purposes. He has had one good year or maybe a year and 2 months cause he finished off last season well. But its 12 months. You cant make an argument for that player. In drafts you dont talk about potential or what he COULD become. Its about what it is now and 1 years worth of stats isnt good enough in my opinion.
 
RDCR07 said:
Giannis shouldnt even be in the conversation for draft purposes. He has had one good year or maybe a year and 2 months cause he finished off last season well. But its 12 months. You cant make an argument for that player. In drafts you dont talk about potential or what he COULD become. Its about what it is now and 1 years worth of stats isnt good enough in my opinion.
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I'm not trying to sell him as anything he's not. We're not aiming to build around him or have him run the game. He's a limited option to come off the bench and use his athleticism to disrupt the flow and create fast break opportunities, which he's shown his ability to do.
 
For the talk of the shootout in the backcourt, and Hakeem and Robinson going at it...Anthony Davis shouldn't be an afterthought in a battle with Kemp. For the comments of AD never having seen a player like Kemp, it safe to say Kemp has never seen a player like Davis.

Dirk Nowitzki said:
In my 16 year, I've never seen anyone like him.
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Kobe Bryant said:
He's an athletic Pau Gasol. Thats the best way I can put it. He can be one of the greatest power forwards who has ever played
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DeAndre Jordan said:
He's like a 7 foot guard
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Kevin Durant said:
His first step is probably the quickest I've seen. 50 for him is like, good game, and move onto the next one
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Steve Kerr said:
Have you seen a pickup game where theres like a high school kid and everybody else is 12?
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If we look at players 20 years old or younger, he's the only player to put up these numbers

20.8 PPG
10 rebounds per game
1.3 steals per game
2.8 blocks per game

if you lower those by 25%, only Chris Webber joins him as a player to put up those numbers.

His PER of 26.5 at the age of 20 is the highest in NBA history. Only Lebron breaks 25 (at 25.7), the next closest is Shaq at 22.9.

Granted, some players like Tim Duncan didn't come into the league until 21/22, so lets look at AD's next couple of seasons.

He's the only player aged 21-22 who averaged:

24.3 PPG
10.3 rebounds per game
1.4 steals per game
2.1 blocks per game.

If you lower those numbers by 25%, only two other players join him in putting up those numbers. Hakeem, and Bob McAdoo.

His PER of 30.8 is the highest of anyone before the age of 23, and ranks 18th in the history of the NBA. Shaq being the next closest in that age range at 28.6.

His PER 100 stats between his 2nd and 4th seasons averaged:

33.4 PPG
14.7 rebounds per game
2 steals per game
3.8 blocks per game

He's the only player to put up a minimum of those numbers in their 2nd to 4th seasons. If we take away the steals completely, a part of his game that sets him apart from his peers, only Shaq joins AD on that list of players to put up those numbers.

So its safe to say that its more like Kemp hasn't seen a player like him, and wouldn't know how to handle him.
 
Injuries are a big concern and have to be taken into account. This was the first season where AD played over 70 games. The same criticism was being thrown at Blake for being injured and missing the playoffs.
 
RDCR07 said:
Injuries are a big concern and have to be taken into account. This was the first season where AD played over 70 games. The same criticism was being thrown at Blake for being injured and missing the playoffs.
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Kemp had 3 seasons where he started every game he played, and averaged 27 minutes a game.

AD already had 3 seasons where he started every game he played in, the other two seasons he came off the bench in 3 games and 1 game. Even his rookie season he averaged more minutes than Kemp did over his career.

I get what you're saying, but hes hardly the Phil Jones of the basketball world.
 
RDCR07 said:
Injuries are a big concern and have to be taken into account. This was the first season where AD played over 70 games. The same criticism was being thrown at Blake for being injured and missing the playoffs.
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Aren't we pretty much assuming players aren't injured? If we take injuries into account a lot of players go down in valuation over the course of their careers. Hardaway was ruined by them.
 
Akshay said:
Aren't we pretty much assuming players aren't injured? If we take injuries into account a lot of players go down in valuation over the course of their careers. Hardaway was ruined by them.
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Then Grant Hill and TMac would prolly be among the top 10-20 players of all time. Injuries play a big part. Thats why players like Blake didnt get picked.
 
Sarni said:
Why unbalanced? I think I have done well enough in balancing the team while looking to pick players who have not played together. I have good interior defense and make up for slight lack of it in my first choice backcourt by having Hardaway on the bench and George (a very good perimeter defender which often gets overlooked) in my backcourt. Also, interior defense is GOOD.
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You have the likes of Kemp and George STARTING in your all time starting 5? Not sure how much research you did into older players but you seem to have favored to go with players who are current when there were options for you to go with better players with your picks.
 
RDCR07 said:
You have the likes of Kemp and George STARTING in your all time starting 5? Not sure how much research you did into older players but you seem to have favored to go with players who are current when there were options for you to go with better players with your picks.
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Well, I was limited by players being born after 1960 and not ever playing together. I would have picked Barkley before I got to Kemp but he played with Hakeem, Pierce was eliminated because he played with Allen etc. George I picked because I needed a small forward and I wanted someone who can a) defend, b) also be used at 2.
 
Skizzo said:
Kemp had 3 seasons where he started every game he played, and averaged 27 minutes a game.

AD already had 3 seasons where he started every game he played in, the other two seasons he came off the bench in 3 games and 1 game. Even his rookie season he averaged more minutes than Kemp did over his career.

I get what you're saying, but hes hardly the Phil Jones of the basketball world.
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Well of course AD is gonna start. He was the best player, the #1 pick for a shitty team. # of starts isnt an issue.
 
RDCR07 said:
For me both teams look unbalanced. Its like picking the lesser of two evils.
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We've got to stop agreeing like this (see other match up).
RDCR07 said:
You have the likes of Kemp and George STARTING in your all time starting 5? Not sure how much research you did into older players but you seem to have favored to go with players who are current when there were options for you to go with better players with your picks.
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...and I agree with this too.
Akshay said:
Hakeem is definitely better than Robinson but this match looks set for a back-court shoot-out. I feel Curry and Miller are going to win that more times than Nash and Allen.
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On the other side of the coin, I'd certainly go with Hakeem, although David Robinson wasn't exactly chopped liver either and in the back courts I'd lean towards Sarni. Personally, I think Steph is the best of the four in terms of being a pure volume scorer and the overall best player but IMLTHO Reggie Miller is massively overrated. When he did something good (against the Knicks for instance) he was amazing but he spent far too much of his career being very average.

I suppose what it boils down to is does Hakeem's greatness offset the lousiness of the Kemp/George starters and whether Nash/Allen/Penny can overcome what Steph brings to the table. Too close to call right now - will have to think on it.

EDIT: Went with Skizzo, sorry Sarni.
 
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feck I am getting destroyed here. I should not vote for myself, right?
 
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