The time(s) Louis Van Gaal ignored chief scout Jim Lawlor

[luke511]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...teo-Darmian-Torino-Jim-Lawlor-Transfer-Gossip

I've heard multiple times that Van Gaal was practically given an open chequebook at utd, causing a lot more damage than good. Looking back I feel like this article is potential evidence to that. I wonder if the scouting department gave similar opinions on all the other duds!

 

[Bojan11]

2015 article?

Thought it was some recent article.

 

[luke511]

2015 article?

Thought it was some recent article.

Sorry yeah I should've mentioned that, the article was posted before the transfer even happened

 

[Bastian]

Yeah, thought so too. Just a 2015 article about Lawlor not rating Darmian (which is fair enough on his part). Louis signed him anyway. Article also says we were hoping for Danny Alves who extended his Barca deal. Quite a galaxy apart, those two targets.

Not really sure it's worth a thread if this is the only example where Louis vetoed Lawlor's definite opinion.

 

[luke511]

Yeah, thought so too. Just a 2015 article about Lawlor not rating Darmian (which is fair enough on his part). Louis signed him anyway. Article also says we were hoping for Danny Alves who extended his Barca deal. Quite a galaxy apart, those two targets.

Not really sure it's worth a thread if this is the only example where Louis vetoed Lawlor's definite opinion.

I'm just pissed and bored, in hindsight it is an incredibly pointless thread

 

[Cloud7]

Yeah, thought so too. Just a 2015 article about Lawlor not rating Darmian (which is fair enough on his part). Louis signed him anyway. Article also says we were hoping for Danny Alves who extended his Barca deal. Quite a galaxy apart, those two targets.

Not really sure it's worth a thread if this is the only example where Louis vetoed Lawlor's definite opinion.

To be fair Darmian was very highly rated at the time, and he looked like an outstanding defender in his first few games here. Just ended up not working out, but I would not say his signing was a bad one at the time.

 

[Snow]

For those who don't know who Jim Lawlor is besides what he does, he's a man that SAF trusted completely in evaluation of players.

Scouts do more than look at player play and judge their ability. They try to get to know their character. SAF had a policy of getting to know the family of a player to get to know the background they came from. It's important that a player fits in with the group he's brought into.

 

[tenpoless]

He was looking for players that He thought will fit his philosophy, not the club's.

 

[Skills]

Isn't this obvious? Who seriously thinks we were after Blind, Rojo or Ron fecking Vlaar if it wasn't for Louis Van Gaal?

 

[RUCK4444]

I’ve posted before that IMO LVG caused the club more harm than Moyes.

I’m not saying Moyes is a better manager - he isn’t.

However the money spent and the quality / type of player Van Gaal went after was terrible for us and set us back massively from a rebuild standpoint. Not to mention the money he wasted.

Awful appointment.

 

[cyril C]

For those who don't know who Jim Lawlor is besides what he does, he's a man that SAF trusted completely in evaluation of players.

Scouts do more than look at player play and judge their ability. They try to get to know their character. SAF had a policy of getting to know the family of a player to get to know the background they came from. It's important that a player fits in with the group he's brought into.

Can you name any great players that SAF + Lawlor signed in his last 5 summers? RVP was one but he is hardly any input from Scouts, and RVP had 1.5 great seasons BTW.

 

[Vooon]

Didn't LvG recently claim that the club (ie Woody) only signed players he ranked at 7th-8th for each position he wanted improvements? Mourinho also claimed something similar I think. They might be trying to come up with excuses, but it does look like a pattern.

 

[VP89]

Jim Lawlor is the love-child of a great wrestling commentator duo

 

[flappyjay]

He was looking for players that He thought will fit his philosophy, not the club's.

I think Darmian would fit in with current squad personality wise. Unfortunately for him his talent didn't translate well to the Premier League. We blew his chances of joining inter and juventus by pricing him out but he never bad mouthed the club.

 

[ReddBalls]

Can you name any great players that SAF + Lawlor signed in his last 5 summers? RVP was one but he is hardly any input from Scouts, and RVP had 1.5 great seasons BTW.

I'd say David De Gea is a great player. Berbatov was a very, very good one. Valencia and Young, even though the most popular among fans, was very good. They were never star players, though, but no one was ever able to displace them in the team, even though LVG and JoMo were shopping players like drunken sailors.

 

[RedRob]

I’ve posted before that IMO LVG caused the club more harm than Moyes.

I’m not saying Moyes is a better manager - he isn’t.

However the money spent and the quality / type of player Van Gaal went after was terrible for us and set us back massively from a rebuild standpoint. Not to mention the money he wasted.

Awful appointment.

Moyes was just as much of a disaster in the transfer market. Signing only Fellaini in the summer, as the window was about to slam shut and for about £4M more than he would have cost a few weeks prior, was rightly regarded as farcical. Signing Mata in January was a no-brainer, a description which also fitted Moyes himself.

Van Gaal definitely flopped in the transfer market, but he brought in a few players who've proven to be a success: Martial, Shaw, Romero and Herrera in particular. The first two suffered under Mourinho but have flourished since, Romero is an excellent option from the bench and Herrera was usually considered an MOTM contender in every match he played.

Recruitment post-SAF has generally been a disaster anyway, with only Mourinho's first window being one that made people think, "We're back!"

 

[red thru&thru]

For those who don't know who Jim Lawlor is besides what he does, he's a man that SAF trusted completely in evaluation of players.

Scouts do more than look at player play and judge their ability. They try to get to know their character. SAF had a policy of getting to know the family of a player to get to know the background they came from. It's important that a player fits in with the group he's brought into.

And this seems to have come back.

I wasn't totally for the signing of Maguire, ability wise I still don't think he was worth the price, but what he and Bruno have shown is, it is more than just what is on the pitch. That character in the dressing room is just as important.

 

[red thru&thru]

Didn't LvG recently claim that the club (ie Woody) only signed players he ranked at 7th-8th for each position he wanted improvements? Mourinho also claimed something similar I think. They might be trying to come up with excuses, but it does look like a pattern.

Imo, Ed was like a kid in a sweet shop originally. He got to play FM in real life. Went just for names and flashing the cash, to show the world how well he'd done.

It has now backfired and rightly no longer in charge.

 

[flappyjay]

Didn't LvG recently claim that the club (ie Woody) only signed players he ranked at 7th-8th for each position he wanted improvements? Mourinho also claimed something similar I think. They might be trying to come up with excuses, but it does look like a pattern.

Excuses. Maybe here and there. But there is no way Lukaku, Zlatan, Matic, Bailly and Pogba (wanted him at Chelsea) were not Jose's top picks. Fred(rumored club signing), with lindelofs physical weaknesses I don't see him as a Jose 1st pick. Sanchez was probably 1st pick by both club and manager, like Pogba.

I think Lvg might be more of a mixed bad than the Jose one. Schneiderlin to me doesn't seem to fit in an Lvg midfield with limitations on the ball. Herrera and Shaw were club signings. But let's be honest he also didn't know what he wanted. 1st year he tried to turn us into a back 3 team and sold any player who could play in the flanks Welbeck, Nani and Zaha. Next summer he was complaining about a lack of speed/wingers on the flanks and apparently wanted Neymar.

 

[flappyjay]

Can you name any great players that SAF + Lawlor signed in his last 5 summers? RVP was one but he is hardly any input from Scouts, and RVP had 1.5 great seasons BTW.

Had they had their way we could have signed Hazard, Benzema, varane in that period. Identifying good players is one thing, signing them is another.

 

[stevoc]

Excuses. Maybe here and there. But there is no way Lukaku, Zlatan, Matic, Bailly and Pogba (wanted him at Chelsea) were not Jose's top picks. Fred(rumored club signing), with lindelofs physical weaknesses I don't see him as a Jose 1st pick. Sanchez was probably 1st pick by both club and manager, like Pogba.

I think Lvg might be more of a mixed bad than the Jose one. Schneiderlin to me doesn't seem to fit in an Lvg midfield with limitations on the ball. Herrera and Shaw were club signings. But let's be honest he also didn't know what he wanted. 1st year he tried to turn us into a back 3 team and sold any player who could play in the flanks Welbeck, Nani and Zaha. Next summer he was complaining about a lack of speed/wingers on the flanks and apparently wanted Neymar.

Yeah his transfer policy was a haphazard clusterfeck. The only consistency there was to it seemed to be getting rid of as many of Fergies players as he could as quickly as was possible. And I vaguely remember him admitting that In an interview last year as he wanted the team to be his own.

His problem was though he didn’t have an eye for a good player. Highlighted by signing a turds like Darmian.

 

[arthurka]

I'd say David De Gea is a great player. Berbatov was a very, very good one. Valencia and Young, even though the most popular among fans, was very good. They were never star players, though, but no one was ever able to displace them in the team, even though LVG and JoMo were shopping players like drunken sailors.

You could add Chicharito to that list Smalling hell Jones or even Owen.

 

[RedSky]

You could add Chicharito to that list Smalling hell Jones or even Owen.

Those last two are huge stretches but agreed about the first two, decent signings for sure.

 

[RUCK4444]

Moyes was just as much of a disaster in the transfer market. Signing only Fellaini in the summer, as the window was about to slam shut and for about £4M more than he would have cost a few weeks prior, was rightly regarded as farcical. Signing Mata in January was a no-brainer, a description which also fitted Moyes himself.

Van Gaal definitely flopped in the transfer market, but he brought in a few players who've proven to be a success: Martial, Shaw, Romero and Herrera in particular. The first two suffered under Mourinho but have flourished since, Romero is an excellent option from the bench and Herrera was usually considered an MOTM contender in every match he played.

Recruitment post-SAF has generally been a disaster anyway, with only Mourinho's first window being one that made people think, "We're back!"

I've no doubt Moyes would have been even more detrimental if he had been here as long as Van Gaal. However the huge shift away to a new style of play under LVG and the subsequent recruitment to suit that new style meant that moving back towards where we need to be has been all the more difficult.

Totally agree that recruitment has been dire, it's been worse than dire, it's been a collective disgrace. One of the main reasons I've backed Ole consistently, that area of management has improved massively.

 

[fps]

It is only now with Solskjaer that I can honestly say I'm finally happy with the club's post-SAF recruitment policy.

 

[ghaliboy]

He was looking for players that He thought will fit his philosophy, not the club's.

Damn, perfectly described.

 

[norm87cro]

Martial, Romero and Shaw are doing ok. LVG is also responsible for giving Rashford a chance. The football was horrible but I wouldn't down play LVGs ability to spot talent

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...teo-Darmian-Torino-Jim-Lawlor-Transfer-Gossip

I've heard multiple times that Van Gaal was practically given an open chequebook at utd, causing a lot more damage than good. Looking back I feel like this article is potential evidence to that. I wonder if the scouting department gave similar opinions on all the other duds!

Regardless of whether he ignored the scouting department or not,LVG had a horrendous record in the transfer window.Moyes made 2 decent signings(should have signed more players),and Mourinho was a bit hit and miss in the transfer market,but LVG was just horrendous.Scheiderlin,Schweinsteiger,Rojo,Falcao,Darmian,etc etc were bad signings for the club...I guess that his tenure at the club probably should convince the hierarchy to appoint a DOF as soon as possible.

 

[w1thout]

Signings wise - Van Gaal did pretty bad.
A quick review of his signings, beside Herrera and Shaw who were, by all accounts, club signings:
Rojo
Di maria
Blind
Falcao
Valdes
Memphis
Schneiderlin
Schweinsteiger
Darmian
Martial
Romero

Romero and Martial are the standouts, and I'll say that Blind was a good player as well, but besides that it's pretty much all failures.
Now add that to the fact that he opted to get rid of most of the wingers in the squad (Nani, Zaha), gave to much credit to an over-the-hill Rooney, and played soul-destroying football... I'd say that his recent comments about not getting his first choice signing in every position is face-saving and nothing more.

Now compare that to Ole's attitude towards recruitment. I have to admit, I was in the Ole out camp for a long time, but before all hell broke loose, I was starting to come around..

 

[fps]

Signings wise - Van Gaal did pretty bad.
A quick review of his signings, beside Herrera and Shaw who were, by all accounts, club signings:
Rojo
Di maria
Blind
Falcao
Valdes
Memphis
Schneiderlin
Schweinsteiger
Darmian
Martial
Romero

Romero and Martial are the standouts, and I'll say that Blind was a good player as well, but besides that it's pretty much all failures.
Now add that to the fact that he opted to get rid of most of the wingers in the squad (Nani, Zaha), gave to much credit to an over-the-hill Rooney, and played soul-destroying football... I'd say that his recent comments about not getting his first choice signing in every position is face-saving and nothing more.

Now compare that to Ole's attitude towards recruitment. I have to admit, I was in the Ole out camp for a long time, but before all hell broke loose, I was starting to come around..

I bet Ole wished he had Zaha to play on the right wing. He'd have adapted to that side I'm sure and while not a world-beater he'd be perfectly serviceable.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Isn't this obvious? Who seriously thinks we were after Blind, Rojo or Ron fecking Vlaar if it wasn't for Louis Van Gaal?

Blind was a very good player. Very harsh putting him in this company.

 

[fps]

Blind was a very good player. Very harsh putting him in this company.

Yes Blind is a talented player who really didn't have a defined role for United where he would excel. Also not a traditional United style player, lacking that dynamism. Van Gaal of course was trying to change United's entire system (DNA if you will) and signed a whole host of inadequate players. That central midfield pair of signings, ouch. Depay.... goodness me.

 

[Jezpeza]

Signings wise - Van Gaal did pretty bad.
A quick review of his signings, beside Herrera and Shaw who were, by all accounts, club signings:
Rojo
Di maria
Blind
Falcao
Valdes
Memphis
Schneiderlin
Schweinsteiger
Darmian
Martial
Romero

Romero and Martial are the standouts, and I'll say that Blind was a good player as well, but besides that it's pretty much all failures.
Now add that to the fact that he opted to get rid of most of the wingers in the squad (Nani, Zaha), gave to much credit to an over-the-hill Rooney, and played soul-destroying football... I'd say that his recent comments about not getting his first choice signing in every position is face-saving and nothing more.

Now compare that to Ole's attitude towards recruitment. I have to admit, I was in the Ole out camp for a long time, but before all hell broke loose, I was starting to come around..

i think LVG has been full of shit in his interviews about his time here. he spent a stonking amount of money on a total crock
Of shit. Wanted a back 3, sold all the wide players for peanuts, then complained we had no wide players. He believed in his system over individuals so just signed any old shit as long as they played that position. Rojo was signed purely for being a left footed cb. Even stuff he is credited with like the emergence of Rashford is a total fluke because he only played because he’d sold all the strikers and we had injuries.

i feel like we have turned a corner in recruitment. We dont seem to just spend for the sake of it anymore even if we do get charged a premium.

But you can waste loads of money anyway looking for bargains - Rojo, Jones, Smalling, Bailly and Lindelof cost a combined 105 million quid. None of them are ideal although the latter two have looked better recently. Would rather overpay a bit for someone who is definitely good - we knew Maguire can play well in the PL

 

[ReddBalls]

You could add Chicharito to that list Smalling hell Jones or even Owen.

Absolutely. Jones did not turn out as good as we hoped for, but who knows how he'd fare with the right manager? Owen, I don't know. He didn't do much besides THAT goal, and he's a twat.

 

[Luke1995]

Honestly none of the post fergie problems would have happened if the club had kept David Gill instead of signing Woodward

 

[devilish]

Honestly none of the post fergie problems would have happened if the club had kept David Gill instead of signing Woodward

Gill was the catalyst behind the 'value' signings that saw us buying Valencia and Young to replace Giggs and Ronaldo. It also lead us to a silly situation when we had to recall Scholes from retirement and play legendary Tom Cleverley in midfield that once had the likes of Robson, Keane and Charlton in it.

Why don't we just admit that Sir Alex made all our CEOs look great? Edwards, Kenyon and Gill would have been crap without him.

 

[matherto]

Pretty sure we all knew LVG was great at bedding in youngsters and fecking awful at buying?

I seem to remember it was one of the concerns when he was appointed, or at least when he was mooted to take over.

 

[horsechoker]

Dani Alves seems like the type who would have downed tools in Manchester.

Fred took a year to acclimatise and he played in Ukraine beforehand so he was already used to a non-Mediterranean climate, culture and food.

 

[Luke1995]

Gill was the catalyst behind the 'value' signings that saw us buying Valencia and Young to replace Giggs and Ronaldo. It also lead us to a silly situation when we had to recall Scholes from retirement and play legendary Tom Cleverley in midfield that once had the likes of Robson, Keane and Charlton in it.

Why don't we just admit that Sir Alex made all our CEOs look great? Edwards, Kenyon and Gill would have been crap without him.

Everyone will make one or two mistakes. Gill was the one who managed to sign Ronaldo and Rooney if i'm not mistaken. Fergie managed to work well with the CEOS but every manager should be able to do it at a reasonable level.

Gill was definitely smart to get out before Fergie did though. Woodward will always carry the definition of being the Moyes CEO

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Honestly none of the post fergie problems would have happened if the club had kept David Gill instead of signing Woodward

To be fair though we signed Bebe for 8m which at that time 8m is considered around 15m-20m in todays market. And we failed to sign Modric & Hazard.