The tragedy of a fantastic Brazil generation of players after 2006

[matbezlima]

Here in Brazil, TV Globo, the biggest open TV network here in Brazil, reprised the 2005 Confederations Cup final, an amazing 4-1 victory of Brazil over Argentina (in the next sunday, the 1994 World Cup final will be reprised). It was a great game, specially the second half, which was a marvel to watch, pure beautiful football from Brazil. The only negative stand-out from the match when it comes to the match was Ronaldinho, he was really poor. Adriano, Kaká and Robinho were all very good. Adriano was such a feral beast, just look at his first goal, he scores seemingly with anger, as if he was Hulk (the character, not the player). Kaká's objectivity is amazing too. And Robinho, despite irregular career for european clubs, was constantly amazing for Brazil in his career, a delight to watch, so skilled. He was one of those players who play better for the NT than the clubs. Lúcio was also amazing, his technical quality and amazing runs, his pure class is still impressive for a defender, really elegant in all aspects, marvelous to watch. Brazil's full-backs, Gilberto and Cicinho, specially Cicinho, were amazing. They should have been Brazil's full-backs in 2006 instead of the decadent Cafu and Roberto Carlos. A fat and old Ronaldo in the place of Robinho was also a mistake in 2006.

Overall, there is a big feeling of sadness knowing how fantastic this generation was and how they declined too early. It was a generation that should have played until the 2014 World Cup, but instead we were really unlucky. Ronaldinho lost interest and would never be the same after 2006. Adriano's father died and from then on Adriano became depressed and lost interest in football, throwing his amazing talent to have a great career in the trash. Kaká would never be the same after going to Real Madrid and struggle with injuries. Cicinho lost himself with his alcohol struggles. The way that such a fantastic generation of players blew themselves up so quickly is a true tragedy for world football.

 

[Infordin]

The biggest problem is that Brazil tried to shoe-horn an overweight, past his prime Ronaldo into the team. Ronaldo did not provide any off-the-ball movement, he was lazy and didn't press opponents. At Barca, Ronaldinho played alongside a mobile forward (Eto'o) and a hard working winger on the other side (Guily). Brazil did not have either at the 2006 World Cup. Ronaldinho has to take some of the blame for his poor performances at that tournament, but the team was set up to fail. Brazil were unbalanced and dysfunctional.

Another (overlooked) problem is that both Roberto Carlos and Cafu were clearly past their prime by 2006. They were the equivalent of Marcelo and Dani Alves in 2019.

Overall, Brazil would have had a much better chance at success if they lined up like this:

Adriano
Ronaldinho - Kaka - Cafu
Ze Roberto - G. Silva
R. Carlos - Lucio - Juan - Cicinho
Dida​

This team would have been more balanced, while still retaining plenty of firepower.

 

[Rozay]

Brazilian footballers are finished by 30 so it’s always a race against time to achieve something.

 

[Number32]

Blame the money, their career was detroyed by 2 clubs like today PSG. Milan, Inter, and Real Madrid were too powerful in the market but still wasting their talent.
After the great Ronaldo past his prime, they should had another lethal striker with Adriano and then Pato. They were scoring for fun in Italy, should had lifted the world cup in 2010 or 2014

 

[Champagne Football]

The likes of Ederson, Neymar and Firminho seem more worried about their tattoos and dyed hair than sweating blood for the national team. They've become the Spice Boys a little bit.

It could be that too much too young has had an effect on recent Brazilian players.

I think some other nations have raised the bar also like France, Belgium and even England to some extent. And Spain and Germany a few years ago. But make no mistake, Brazil will be back at some point. It won't be long before they produce another Ballon D'or winning player.

 

[Hound Dog]

Brazilian footballers are finished by 30 so it’s always a race against time to achieve something.

You are being generous. Their superstars have mostly been finished far earlier than that.

 

[Sky1981]

The fact that they ended up tragically means they're not fantastic.

Over hyped, overrated.

You're only as good as your result. You can't claim "what could have been", well you could do so on a football forum as banters.

 

[paraguayo]

Their attitude was embarassing, they showed up overweight to the World Cup, thinking the past results would make them win automatically. Brazil had just come off 3 straight WC finals and countless Confed Cup and Copa America wins. They also had 3 or 4 Ballon D'Or level players, in differnet stages of their career.

I remember as a fan, it was quite visible Maicon should have been given a chance at RB ahead of Cafu and Juninho should've never been a starter, always thought he was overrated. I'd rather have seen Adriano start against France than Ronaldo at that stage.

This WC also brought the narrative in Brazil that Ronaldinho was a major NT choker. But they replayed the 2002 finals the other week and people remembered that Ronaldinho actually was the best performer in the finals, leaving R9 1 on 1 with Khan multiple times, which he squandered the chances. A lot of people say that Ronaldinho only performed vs England and never again.

 

[JPRouve]

Brazilian footballers are finished by 30 so it’s always a race against time to achieve something.

There is some truth to that, Brazilian attacking players seem to all start very early, it's not surprising to see them play regularly in Serie A at age 16-18 which means that they all have significant mileage when they are in the their mid 20s.

 

[Black Adder]

It's not tragedy what happend to them, but mixture of poor life choices, bad attitudes and lazy work ethic.

Tragedy is what happened to United '58 or Chapecoense '16 not this.

 

[giorno]

I mean, iirc, they basically had a month long free for all festival/orgy instead of training camp leading up to the tournament

Not surprisingly Kaka - the guy who was part of a religious cult - was the only one in shape

 

[paraguayo]

I mean, iirc, they basically had a month long free for all festival/orgy instead of training camp leading up to the tournament

Not surprisingly Kaka - the guy who was part of a religious cult - was the only one in shape

Ze Roberto too. Comfortably Brazil's best player in tournament. He is still a physical specimen at age 45 www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/SPORT-PREVIEW-Ze-Roberto.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=1200&h=800&crop=1

 

[Bilbo]

Cicinho rings a bell. Were United linked with him at one point?

 

[11101]

I agree with much already said about focus and weight issues but i don't think they were a fantastic generation to begin with. Look at who the stars were in the traditional key Brazil positions of full backs and attackers, if you compare the main players of the 'ideal' 2006 line up with 2002 or 1998.

Cicinho - Cafu
Gilberto - Carlos
Kaka - Ronaldinho
Robinho - Rivaldo
Adriano - Ronaldo

Good as some of them were, they were nowhere near the level of the previous generation. As long as i can remember Brazil have been about brilliant individuals over a coherent team and the 2006/2010 lot just weren't good enough individually. In 1998 and 2002 they had once in a lifetime players in a number of positions. I can't name a single player they've had at that level since then.

 

[Adisa]

There was a period they had bunch of no marks as strikers. Fred, Jo, Vagner Love etc. What the feck was that about?

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Adriano is probably the biggest waste of talent I have seen. He had no weaknesses other than the mental aspect but that sank him completely.

 

[horsechoker]

The last Brazil side remind me of England in the 2000s, full of fantastic talent but couldn't put it together when it mattered. Most of those Brazilian players are in the top 3 or 4 players at their clubs a bit like England were.

 

[Fortitude]

The problem you will always have with legends who have given a club/country countless glories and moments of individual brilliance is that they are nearly always allowed to bow out when they want to, and not necessarily when they should. It happens with every nation, not just Brazil (see Rooney, Buffon, Totti and countless others) and a manager has to have some serious stones on him to go against, not only the legend, but a nation, in usurping these treasures - from that point onward, he's fighting an uphill battle where every misstep or error is pointed out in full and given little benefit of the doubt whilst no doubt being peppered with 'X or Y would have saved us! How could you drop him? Look how many times he's come to the rescue!" It's a no-win situation, a poisoned chalice to go in at the end of a set of legends' end, and smart coaches will avoid the scenario entirely and come in after the dust has settled rather than navigate the minefield of what ifs.

Brazil were a powerhouse at the time - based off their previous successes, granted, but also had what was seen as the best player in the world who was supposed to cement his legacy and make the 2006 World Cup his own and one for the ages. There was also Kaka', Lucio, Adriano and a combative central midfield pairing behind them. Some quarters expected a Brazil '82 out of this side with a union of both the old and their replacements, taking the selecao all the way to the trophy. Brazilian hubris can only be called after the fact, as they have a record that backs up the swagger and nonchalance and the proven ability to turn it on when needs be... or they did... and you would have to be a bold man to uproot what was the fabric of the side at the time.

Ronaldo was ridiculously overweight and unprepared for the World Cup, but who, on the planet, is going to drop him and face the 'scandal' and shitstorm that was sure to follow from replacing a nation's greatest striker with two back-to-back World Cups of immense standing, who was in pursuit of a legacy-extending 3rd World Cup run? Seriously. Not bringing Romario to the '02 World Cup was the last time a coach was bold enough to do what he thought was best. The only reason he could do that is because he, the coach, was a legend in his own right who was known for his own set of brass balls and had a proven legend of his own in Rivaldo to assuage the masses. With due respect to Adriano, he was not seen in the same regard as Ronaldo and if the former had bombed and the latter wasn't taken, there would be hell to pay. Another issue here is Ronaldo didn't play second fiddle to anyone, ever, so you couldn't have him on the bench and try the other one out. Again, better to be the guy that comes in after that version of Ronaldo retired than have to tackle the issue and all the baggage that comes with it.

Ultimately, Brazil should be roasted for their complacency, but more than all the old legends - or those who were supposed to take on their mantle - failing to live up to expectations, it'll forever be remembered as the tournament where Ronaldinho let himself down. An an on song Ronaldinho could have been such a catalyst for one of the greatest [Brazilian] stories told alongside: a 17 year old taking a World Cup by storm; a winger taking the team to glory in the then 21 year olds' stead; a player performing like a superstar and bringing the Cup home after 24yrs; one who's World Cup was a redemption for what happened in the final of the one prior - it should have been the next in line, and, well it wasn't.

It is an indictment, still, that a nation as storied as Brazil needed one player to be so transformative to stand a chance of winning, however.

 

[matbezlima]

The fact that they ended up tragically means they're not fantastic.

Over hyped, overrated.

You're only as good as your result. You can't claim "what could have been", well you could do so on a football forum as banters.

Those players were truly great and they weren't promises, they were a reality already! Ronaldinho was Ballon D'or, Kaká was too, Adriano was being truly great for Inter and Brazil. Did you read anything that I wrote, specially what happened to Adriano after his father died?!

 

[Gio]

A collection of names rather than a proper team. And names who were too old. Many of whom were 4-7 years past their prime.

Still if Ronaldinho had turned up, in the same way that Zidane did for example, then they had enough talent to go deeper.

 

[Le Red]

Brazilian footballers are finished by 30 so it’s always a race against time to achieve something.

I'm not trying to defend the lack of professionalism but in Brazil some kids are pushed very hard to play football from a very young age as a hope to save their family from poverty. A lot of them are taken early from their homes and go live inside the club structure.
In my opinion, all this early effort takes a toll later on, it's hard to stay professional in such a demanding environment when you have been in this for so long and didn't have a normal childhood.
Of course, then you have examples like Zé Roberto, Dani Alves, Juninho Pernambucano to show that it's possible to have a long and healthy career and be happy about it.
Still, this early decline of Brazilians is very noticed because they are such high profile footballers, but I think it happens a lot with other players that come from countries with difficult realities, which serves my point from before.

 

[Gio]

Of course, then you have examples like Zé Roberto, Dani Alves, Juninho Pernambucano to show that it's possible to have a long and healthy career and be happy about it.

I'd wager that Brazil actually over-achieve on this aspect as their superior physical conditioning and/or professionalism sees many of their players extend their careers far beyond the majority of their European counterparts. To add to your list from the last 25 years or so Cafu, Romario, Lucio, Donato, Mauro Silva, Roberto Carlos, Rivaldo, Zico, Jorginho, Dunga and Julio Cesar (the centre-half) all played into or approaching their 40s.

 

[Sky1981]

Those players were truly great and they weren't promises, they were a reality already! Ronaldinho was Ballon D'or, Kaká was too, Adriano was being truly great for Inter and Brazil. Did you read anything that I wrote, specially what happened to Adriano after his father died?!

It doesn't matter what they individually achieved, that year that squad that team was overrated, they're rated as champions but comes home as loser.

Could have, should have, but they didnt

 

[matbezlima]

It doesn't matter what they individually achieved, that year that squad that team was overrated, they're rated as champions but comes home as loser.

Could have, should have, but they didnt

I said that it was a great GENERATION. I didn't say that they were a great team! They were awful in 2006, Ronaldinho being specially disappointing. As bad as they were in 2006, my point is that these players should have had more longevity to still be in their primes in 2010 and even 2014! They declined too quickly and sharply, much faster than normal and totally unexpected. Players normally have far longer primes. As I said and see if you finally get my point:

Ronaldinho lost interest and would never be the same after 2006. Adriano's father died and from then on Adriano became depressed and lost interest in football, throwing his amazing talent to have a great career in the trash. Kaká would never be the same after going to Real Madrid and struggle with injuries. Cicinho lost himself with his alcohol struggles.

 

[Sky1981]

I said that it was a great GENERATION. I didn't say that they were a great team! They were awful in 2006, Ronaldinho being specially disappointing. As bad as they were in 2006, my point is that these players should have had more longevity to still be in their primes in 2010 and even 2014! They declined too quickly and sharply, much faster than normal and totally unexpected. Players normally have far longer primes. As I said and see if you finally get my point:

Ronaldinho lost interest and would never be the same after 2006. Adriano's father died and from then on Adriano became depressed and lost interest in football, throwing his amazing talent to have a great career in the trash. Kaká would never be the same after going to Real Madrid and struggle with injuries. Cicinho lost himself with his alcohol struggles.

Er.... nope.

Unlucky = Us meeting Barcelona 2 times, Chelsea losing to Barcelona via wrong offside goal, Argentina - England hand of god
Tragedy = Munich disaster
Brazil losing isn't a tragedy,

It's a collection of their own doing. Partying, losing interest, persistence with big names even when it doesn't work times and times again. Adriano's father death is a tragedy, but selecting him when he lost interest in football and being a party animal isn't, it's stupidity. Every dog and his bone knows Kaka's struggling at Madrid, why pick him? Cicinho is an alcoholic but gets chosen?

The factors that leads to their exit isn't nature, it's man made. A better player would have stayed focus, a better player would have stay in form, a better player would have admitted he's not up to scratch, a better coach would see this. You gambled on big names, and failed.

 

[matbezlima]

Er.... nope.

Unlucky = Us meeting Barcelona 2 times, Chelsea losing to Barcelona via wrong offside goal, Argentina - England hand of god
Tragedy = Munich disaster
Brazil losing isn't a tragedy,

It's a collection of their own doing. Partying, losing interest, persistence with big names even when it doesn't work times and times again. Adriano's father death is a tragedy, but selecting him when he lost interest in football and being a party animal isn't, it's stupidity. Every dog and his bone knows Kaka's struggling at Madrid, why pick him? Cicinho is an alcoholic but gets chosen?

The factors that leads to their exit isn't nature, it's man made. A better player would have stayed focus, a better player would have stay in form, a better player would have admitted he's not up to scratch, a better coach would see this. You gambled on big names, and failed.

The unlucky part is that virtually all of our big names made the same mistakes as human beings and had the same problems at the same time! The tragedy is because it would be great to see these players playing great football for far longer, football lost so much. Imagine if Messi had declined since 2012, for example? It's a tragedy, the fast decline of any great player is a tragedy. Keep in mind that I'm using the word tragedy hyperbolically.

 

[MrMarcello]

Cicinho rings a bell. Were United linked with him at one point?

I recall that name heavily linked in 2005.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_football/4144422.stm
https://www.worldsoccer.com/news/cicinho-snubbed-manchester-united-72680
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cicinho-man-united-is-the-club-for-me.85913/