The trial of Anders Behring Breivik

[Saliph]

Thought we could use a new thread for this spectacle. The trial starts April 16th.

The first two court appointed psychiatrists found Breivik to be legally insane, but the second two have found the opposite. Breivik in all likelihood facing prison.

Breivik's lawyers are warning the public about his testimony. According to them he's going to apologize for not going further, among other things.

 

[Raoul]

He looks completely sane.

 

[adexkola]

Is the resort prison standard for all criminals in Norway?

 

[Saliph]

Is the resort prison standard for all criminals in Norway?

No. He'll be sent to a proper prison.

 

[mjs020294]

It really shouldn't even be considered for a trail. He clearly committed the crimes, and the only thing in question is his menhtal state. Just get him evaluated and let three judges decide where he will spend the rest of his life: Pontins or Butlins.

 

[JakeC]

The fact that the sentence is only21 years is a farce, although they said he can be kept In whilst he's considered a danger to society, which could be indefinite I guess.

 

[VidaRed]

Labelling him as "mentally insane" is a farce. He seems quite sane to me and shows no remorse other than the fact that he didn't kill more people.

If he is insane rather than a terrorist then so are the suicide bombers because they are brainwashed for years before blowing themselves up.

 

[mjs020294]

The fact that the sentence is only21 years is a farce, although they said he can be kept In whilst he's considered a danger to society, which could be indefinite I guess.

I couldn't believe it when I read 21 years. And teh high security prison he is in is probably better that a Royal Caribbean Cruise Liner.

 

[Kaos]

21 years? So he'll be what...55 when he comes out? Ridiculous.

 

[VidaRed]

21 years? So he'll be what...55 when he comes out? Ridiculous.

Around 3 months jail sentence for each person he killed

 

[rcoobc]

21 years, +5, +5, +5, +5. Until his bones perish.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Any chance of changes to Norwegian law to keep him in prison indefinitely? Canada did it with Paul Bernardo.

Anyway, he looks sane and confident in his vision.

 

[Dave89]

feck he looks cold.

 

[Saliph]

Any chance of changes to Norwegian law to keep him in prison indefinitely? Canada did it with Paul Bernardo.

Anyway, he looks sane and confident in his vision.

We don't have to change the law, he'll be sentenced to "forvaring"/"containment", which means he can be held indefinitely if he's deemed to be a danger to society.

The Norwegian prison system focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment, which is probably the main reason we have recidivism rates of under 20%.

 

[Pexbo]

There's only one thing worse than despair and that is hope. He'll have that glimmer of hope eating away at him for the rest of his life and realistically there is no chance whatsoever that he will ever be released. Nobody does what he does and walks away a free man after any amount of years.

 

[Dyslexic Untied]

21 years? So he'll be what...55 when he comes out? Ridiculous.

Any chance of changes to Norwegian law to keep him in prison indefinitely? Canada did it with Paul Bernardo.

Anyway, he looks sane and confident in his vision.

We don't have to change the law, he'll be sentenced to "forvaring"/"containment", which means he can be held indefinitely if he's deemed to be a danger to society.

The Norwegian prison system focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment, which is probably the main reason we have recidivism rates of under 20%.

What Saliph said.

Forvaring is often, in reality, a life sentence. Basically the worst penalty you could get under Norwegian law is 21 years + "forvaring". That means he will be in jail for 21 years, and after that period he will be held for as long as he is deemed a danger, in sections of 5 years at a time. For a case like this, he will be in jail for all his life.

The idea that Norway only has 21 years is often intentionally misunderstood by Noggie and international media. In reality we have several prisoners contained for the remainders of their life under the institute of "forvaring".

IMO, "forvaring" is probably a worse punishment than life in many ways. I think it is easier mentally to serve a sentence for life without the chance of parole. That way you know that you will never get out. Forvaring on the other and is often in reality the same, but the prisoner will have hopes of getting out every five years after the fixed sentence is over.

edit: I see Pexbo covered that last point as well.

 

[nimic]

I thought the CE forum was better than reddit, but it seems people can't find out things on their own here either. Too many "21 years?!" outraged posts.

 

[Dyslexic Untied]

I thought the CE forum was better than reddit, but it seems people can't find out things on their own here either. Too many "21 years?!" outraged posts.

Can't really blame them. I often think that the media play up that, trying to paint a picture of a naive system. Not all Norwegians get forvaring either.

 

[nimic]

I wouldn't blame them, except this has come up several times in the past.

 

[Commadus]

The "mentally insane" judgement is based on an incorrect predisposition. They assume that you must have some sort of mental issue if you do not feel remorse or say you made a mistake after killing so many people. However you are sane if you press a button drop a bomb and kill ten times as much.

As long as he is thinking coherently he is sane. The insanity plee is just a cop out.

 

[Kaos]

I wouldn't blame them, except this has come up several times in the past.

I haven't really followed this trial extensively and this is the first time I've heard that the maximum sentence in Norway is 21 years, as well as the first time I'm hearing of this 'foravring' concept.

 

[nimic]

This graphic is based on a drawing Breivik made in interrogation. Should give some insight into just what kind of person he is. Essentially, he lists some of his perceived enemies, what he calls "the Norwegian Multicultural Alliance".

Translation/elaborations (by me, so probably imperfect):

Politiske Partier - Political Parties (left to right - not necessarily in political leaning-wise)
Rødt - Red Party (essentially communists)
Sosialistisk Venstreparti - Socialist Left
Arbeiderpartiet - Labour Party
Venstre - Liberal Party
Kristelig Folkeparty - Christian Democratic Party
Senterpartiet - The Centre Party
Høyre - Conservative Party​

I.e. all the parties in Parliament except for the far-right Fremskritspartiet (Progress Party), which he was a member of a few years ago.

Media (left to right)
Norsk Journalistlag - Norwegian Union of Journalists
Norsk Rikskringkasting - Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (our BBC, state funded)
Aftenposten, VG, Dagbladet, Dagsavisen (newspapers)
P4 (radio)

NGO'er - Non-governmental organizations (starting at the top, going right)
NTB - Norwegian News Agency (leading press agency)
LO - Norwegian Confederation of Trade Unions (by far the largest and most influential "umbrella organization" for trade unions, also quite connected to the Labour Party.)
Bellona (environmental organization)
Fagforbundet (a union under LO)
Natur og Ungdom - Nature and Youth (youth environmental organization)
Framtiden i våre hender - The Future in our hands (environmental organization)
SOS Rasisme - SOS Racism (anti-racism activism)
Kringkastingsrådet - Broadcasting Council (advisory board to NRK, the state funded TV channel)
Antirasistisk senter - The Norwegian Centre against Racism (anti-racism activism)
Norsk Folkehjelp - Norwegian People's Aid (large humanitarian organization)
attac (Association for the Taxation of Financial Transactions and for Citizens' Action - google it, I don't know much about it)
Blitz (left-radical youth movement)
Human-Etisk Forbund - Norwegian Humanist Association (one of the largest humanist associations in the world)

Asyllobbyen - The Asylum Lobby
Kirkerådet/Mellomkirkelig Råd - Church Council
Norsk Folkehjelp - Norwegian People's Aid (large humanitarian organization)
UDI (not sure how to translate, it's under the justice department, deals with foreigners/immigrants/asylum-seekers)
Røde Kors - Red Cross
Amnesty International​

The rest are a University and a University College, and a couple of publishers.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

We don't have to change the law, he'll be sentenced to "forvaring"/"containment", which means he can be held indefinitely if he's deemed to be a danger to society.

The Norwegian prison system focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment, which is probably the main reason we have recidivism rates of under 20%.

Good luck rehabilitating that guy.

 

[Sir Matt]

He'll be like Charles Manson, who just came up for and was once again denied parole. The only difference between this and an American "life sentence" is that the US sentence is 25 years, typically, before a chance for parole.

I would be curious to see how a country without indefinite sentencing would handle a criminal like Breivik. Would Portugal free him after his potential 25 year sentence? He'd be 58 at time of release if he was held for his full sentence. There isn't much reforming to him. He's killed 77 people and shown no remorse for any of it.

A DA in Alabama asked for, and received, a sentence of 10,000 years plus two consecutive life sentences for the person convicted of a triple murder. Those type sentences always amuse me. If they hand them down, I think they should have to keep the remains in the prison for however long the sentence is.

 

[Wibble]

It is the plus bit that is amusing. Almost as if they were about to send him to jail for 10 millennia and hen though "wait a minute, what if he gets parole after 5000 years? I know let's add a bit more on".

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

A DA in Alabama asked for, and received, a sentence of 10,000 years plus two consecutive life sentences for the person convicted of a triple murder. Those type sentences always amuse me. If they hand them down, I think they should have to keep the remains in the prison for however long the sentence is.

That is just 'sexing' a sentence up, it is a nonsense. It obviously made headlines though, which was no doubt the intention.

I don't get all the criticism of the Norwegian justice system. Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and one of the happiest populations in the World, they clearly run their society pretty darn well.

 

[Raoul]

I think the exaggerated sentences are meant to preempt future changes in the law that might allow someone out early. For example, if the 10k sentence is struck down on later appeal, the inmate would still remain in jail under the life sentences. Its a bit daft.

 

[africanspur]

He has a chilling look about him.

 

[Neutral]

In court today - Top bloke

"I acknowledge the acts but do not plead guilty, and I claim I was doing it in self-defense," Anders Behring Breivik told a court in Oslo, Norway.

EDIT: added his plea.

 

[Wittmann45]

So he's a Nazi too? That might help him avoid ass rapings in prison

 

[Neutral]

So he's a Nazi too? That might help him avoid ass rapings in prison

He says he killed 70+ innocent people in self-defense, being a nazi is the least of his problems.

 

[Skywarden]

So he's a Nazi too? That might help him avoid ass rapings in prison

How is that a Nazi salute? The fist symbolises quite the opposite to Nazism.

He actually shed tears during his manifesto viewing, which some media didn't broadcast...

Absolute nutter.

 

[Skywarden]

Court in recess. Will be back in 50 minutes or so.

 

[Werder Herzog]

Anyone watch the documentary on him on BBC2 last night? Was horrible to watch.

 

[nimic]

How is that a Nazi salute? The fist symbolises quite the opposite to Nazism.

Not in his case. By his own words, he thinks he created a new salute. Copying the closed fists of the left but using the right hand because he's still decidedly right wing.

 

[PhilipB]

Anyone watch the documentary on him on BBC2 last night? Was horrible to watch.

Watched about half an hour of it. Had to turn it off when it was showing footage of some of the teenagers screaming and crying.

 

[bazalini]

He looks like someone who has not been outside in years. not surprised to hear he spent one whole year playing world of warcraft

I hope he meets his maker soon.

 

[redspoony]

Anyone watch the documentary on him on BBC2 last night? Was horrible to watch.

Yeah, I saw it. Was awful. Listening to the people that were there was just horrific.

 

[Skywarden]

Strong stuff coming up; The first call to 911 from one of the victims.

He smiled/smirked initially - very, very subtly.

 

[Laphroaig]

As long as he is thinking coherently he is sane. The insanity plee is just a cop out.

ABB agrees with you, he wants to be trialed as sane.