The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Revan

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Just googled him...

In his first book, On My Honor, published in 2008, Perry drew a parallel between homosexuality and alcoholism, writing that he is "no expert on the 'nature versus nurture' debate" but that gays should simply choose abstinence.

Do they just have such nutcases in the republican party? It is 2016... We blame the islamic states for their LBGT policies... Germany had an openly gay foreign secretary in Westerwelle from 2009 to 2011.

I grew up with a US that somehow was the example for our country and economy. We did not adapt with everything but in a lot ways the USA was that for us.
He's a total nutter. Like Pence, but also shit at speaking.

I hope that he competes for the Texas senator spot. I dislike him a lot, but I find Cruz far more hateful, so seeing Cruz losing his senate seat would give me some joy.
 

Will Absolute

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Can you explain what you mean there?
Well, it's not rocket science.

All societies have inherent conflicts. The most fundamental is the tension between individual and community. It's the task of any society to 'persuade' each individual member, whatever his talents or background and whatever place in society they may assign him, that the pursuit of self-interest is best conducted with due deference to the communities codes and values. To make him or her a 'good citizen'.

This basic requirement is much complicated when the society is non-homogeneous. In a 'multicultural' society, the task of forming this bond, or loyalty, between the 'good citizen' and the State, is compromised by a competing loyalty to the racial, ethnic, religious or other subgroup of which the individual forms part. If he is to fulfill his role as a 'good citizen', the society has to exert all its powers to persuade the individual that his primary loyalty is to the State itself.

This has usually been possible, with minor accommodations, with a degree of flexibility and goodwill on both sides. Jews, Amish, Asian-Americans etc. have always managed to reconcile their corporate identity with their duty to the State, and be recognized as good citizens.

But when these groups, or bizarrely enough, some leaders of Society itself, start promoting group identity at the expense of national identity, or even asserting group identity as primary identity, and condition loyalty to the State on its ability to address the subgroup's needs and grievances, the delicate social compact is put under strain. The other identity no longer meshes smoothly with the larger identity. The mould of the 'good citizen' is broken.

(Obviously the above is not an adequate account of such a complex question. It ignores the fundamental issue of inter-group conflicts for instance. But I want to eat some tea and cake.)
 

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Well, it's not rocket science.

All societies have inherent conflicts. The most fundamental is the tension between individual and community. It's the task of any society to 'persuade' each individual member, whatever his talents or background and whatever place in society they may assign him, that the pursuit of self-interest is best conducted with due deference to the communities codes and values. To make him or her a 'good citizen'.

This basic requirement is much complicated when the society is non-homogeneous. In a 'multicultural' society, the task of forming this bond, or loyalty, between the 'good citizen' and the State, is compromised by a competing loyalty to the racial, ethnic, religious or other subgroup of which the individual forms part. If he is to fulfill his role as a 'good citizen', the society has to exert all its powers to persuade the individual that his primary loyalty is to the State itself.

This has usually been possible, with minor accommodations, with a degree of flexibility and goodwill on both sides. Jews, Amish, Asian-Americans etc. have always managed to reconcile their corporate identity with their duty to the State, and be recognized as good citizens.

But when these groups, or bizarrely enough, some leaders of Society itself, start promoting group identity at the expense of national identity, or even asserting group identity as primary identity, and condition loyalty to the State on its ability to address the subgroup's needs and grievances, the delicate social compact is put under strain. The other identity no longer meshes smoothly with the larger identity. The mould of the 'good citizen' is broken.

(Obviously the above is not an adequate account of such a complex question. It ignores the fundamental issue of inter-group conflicts for instance. But I want to eat some tea and cake.)

This assumes that the state isn't unjust in its treatment of some groups over others.
 

Conrad

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*sigh* never mind
No energy to highlight the problem.

Let's all just eat our popcorn and watch Brexit, Modi, Trump, and other movements in France, Austria, Holland, etc and keep the blinkers on?
I think I might have misread your point somewhat from those two posts, for which I'm sorry, but I'm still not sure I agree with you. There might have been a failure to really consider some of the legitimate motivations of his supporters which should be learnt from but I don't think that really means that anyone should stop pointing out when Trump is being a thin skinned moron on Twitter. I definitely don't see why we should shift the blame onto a diverse group of people, many of whom come from the sort of communities which could be hit the hardest by a Trump presidency, who read out a respectful statement asking to be fairly represented.
 

Ubik

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Anyone know more about what's going on in NC at the moment, with the Gov election and the Supreme Court?
 

Will Absolute

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This assumes that the state isn't unjust in its treatment of some groups over others.
I'm not assuming that. No society can be just to everybody, even assuming that agreement could be reached on the meaning of 'just'.

As far as individuals go, people born into wealth and privilege have a huge advantage over those less fortunate. Why should those who are handicapped from the start obey the rules? In fact there's no reason.

Sometimes purely random factors determine people's fate. If basketball had never been invented, Michael Jordan might be a janitor. Why should those unlucky enough not to possess the skills their society happens to value accept the shit end of the stick? Again, there's no reason they should.

They do so for a variety of reasons: coercion (the law), social pressure (conformity), the internalization of society's propaganda. And some do not: we call them criminals. But if most didn't accept their lot, no communal living would be possible.

The same logic applies to groups. They have different talents and abilities. They start from different places. They're not going to be equally 'successful'. But constant agitation for 'justice' - meaning a forced equality - is destabilizing.
 

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There's a difference between accepting 'your lot' and the state actively working to keep your group down and promote the upward mobility of other groups.

Besides, The USA is founded on rights including equality for all, blind justice and the American Dream.

It sounds to me like you've been re-reading Hayek recently.
 

The Firestarter

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That's his nickname. He was also portrayed in HBO's Generation Kill.
Hooly shit not that guy. Tell me it is not the guy that ordered the "forced recon" with humvees, of that airfield that supposedly was guarded by heavy armor. And declared every living thing a hostile within the perimeter.
 

berbatrick

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Anyone know more about what's going on in NC at the moment, with the Gov election and the Supreme Court?
Last I read a series of challenges by the GOP to the validity of provisional ballots in various counties were thrown out. Provisional ballots continue to be recounted manually.
 

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Hooly shit not that guy. Tell me it is not the guy that ordered the "forced recon" with humvees, of that airfield that supposedly was guarded by heavy armor. And declared every living thing a hostile within the perimeter.
No, not Col. "Godfather" Ferrando. Gen. Mattis only really appears when they're strongpointing a bridge before a city with a BCT, and he shows up to complain about the pace of advance with the Colonel in-charge of the BCT (who is later relieved of his command).

As weird as it would be to have a former General as SecDef, Mattis is well-regarded and has a reputation for being a thinker, but also for saying some out-of-line stuff at times. You can see from his views that he's not bound to Rep or Dem party lines on issues, since on different issues you seem to find him on different sides. To me this is usually a sign that a person thinks for themselves, and also does so honestly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mattis
 

prateik

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If these reports are to believed, Trump has picked a dozen AGs already.
This is like SSN during the transfer window.

Just wait and watch
 

Ubik

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If these reports are to believed, Trump has picked a dozen AGs already.
This is like SSN during the transfer window.

Just wait and watch
The pick for Attorney General is confirmed, it's Sessions.
 

prateik

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The pick for Attorney General is confirmed, it's Sessions.
I really dont want to go back all the pages, but weren't a few others linked to that before Sessions?
The point is, there is no need for outrage every time a name pops up. Save it for when someone is confirmed.
 

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1) Punish New York for not voting for him
2) Free upgrade on his properties in New York after the Secret Service strengthens them
3) Depress property prices around his own properties (increased traffic, increased restrictions, etc.) so he and/or his friends can pick them up on the cheap before he leaves office
4) ???
5) Profit
 

kps88

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Yeah sorry. But it still means most of the country won't be able to watch it. Must be doing badly in the rating now. Joe Scarborough has some good things to say usually. Mark Halperin also.
Morning shows are common. They're for people to watch before work. They compete with Fox and Friends. Howard Stern starts early morning (he is radio though) as well and his numbers are ridiculous.
 

Bobcat

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The trouble with being a corrupt, narcissistic, arrogant, petulant, nasty, spiteful, devious, disingenuous, malicious, argumentative, untrustworthy, cheating, conniving, pathetic, sociopathic, compulsively lying conman is that it's guaranteed you will have pissed off a lot of people throughout your life and all those people you lied to, conned and ripped off, took to court, stepped on, treated like shit, bribed and destroyed, or tried to destroy, well all those people will want revenge and be watching every single move you make waiting for you to slip up. And in this idiots case you have over half the country on top of everyone else just watching and waiting. The more I think about it, the more I think the big moron has bitten off more than he can chew and is getting in well over his head. There's a long list of people against him and some of those are exceptionally rich and powerful (Mark Cuban for example) and when you factor in everyone he's fecked over and then half the country of Dem supporters and those Republicans who want to see him fail and on top of that pretty much the entire press aside from Faux News, well, that's a lot of people before he's even started, I certainly wouldn't fancy those odds. It begs the question again as to why he would want the hassle? As I said the other day, I really don't think he's thought about this much at all. It's more hassle than it's worth to someone like him, because he couldn't give a shit about anyone else, just his family and himself.
Spot on.

Honestly, i think hes in for a rough ride for a number of reasons.
1) As you said above, hes an arse and there is plenty of people out to get him
2) He has NO political experience what so ever.
3) He can no longer strong-arm or bully people like he did in business, which according to all the stories about him, seem to be his only tactic
4) He responds extremely poorly to any criticism, which i guess there will be quite a lot of
5) His most lunatic supporters who believed all his nonsense will pretty soon find out what a con man he is
 

dumbo

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Feck me Trump is president. I keep get these flashes of realisation. Sure Bush was a goon with more than an air of f.ucklessness about him but people found him personable and he was the head of a team that was at least competent and calculated in it's nastiness. The cnuts are still running the world but never have I seen such a ludicrous looking cnut. Put him in a lineup with Mugabe, Amin and and the Kim Jongs and he still looks the most ridiculous.
 

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There's a no fly zone over Trump tower and all the glass has been replaced with bullet proof glass.
Come on people
Get used to the gridlock around that area of New York. Turns out now Melania wants to stay at Trump Tower when he becomes president. Goodness knows how many more millions the taxpayers will have to pay to protect her and the building.
 

langster

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Get used to the gridlock around that area of New York. Turns out now Melania wants to stay at Trump Tower when he becomes president. Goodness knows how many more millions the taxpayers will have to pay to protect her and the building.
Yeah, it's a big story in a lot of the press today and @MarceloFalcon also linked one of the sources above.

Melania doesn't want to take her 10 year old son out of school half way through a year. He's 10! not fecking 15. He's probably still doing painting by numbers at that age. It's just an excuse, and not a valid one because it's not really going to effect or disturb him either way. 10 year olds, even at top private schools won't be stuck to any special curriculum, and even if he was, are you telling me that there aren't equally adequate schools in DC? Or have all the previous Presidential families had trouble finding decent schools for their kids? No it's just an excuse, and the soon to be President has even said himself on numerous occasions that he will be spending as much time as he can in NYC. So yet again completely disrespecting years upon years of history and tradition and causing problems for everyone else too, not to mention untold expenses as well. But it's ok because he will be giving money back to the middle class won't he? Not wasting millions and millions unnecessarily on extra protection for him and his family because of completely selfish actions.

The vast majority of people in government, especially the President would want to be based in Washington as it's the centre of everything, the hub of politics. A businessman would more likely want to be located in NYC, well especially if the centre of HIS business is based there. Now of course his supporters are going to say it's ok and fine and what's the problem? but yet again they will be just wanting to stick a finger up to everyone else and enjoy the fact their guy is upsetting the norm once again. That's fair enough, and it certainly would be if it was for good reason, or for a noble or sensible cause, but it's not. It's for himself, just like everything the big lumbering buffoon does, it's completely selfish and this time he's disrespecting the most sacred and symbolic of all things in the USA. The Presidential office and the White House. Just wait until he wipes his arse with the Constitution live on TV from Drumpf Tower.
 
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langster

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:lol: You literally couldn't make it up. Something I admit I had no idea about, but the Rich Biff from Back to the Future 2 was based on a certain President elect.

When we meet it is still a few weeks before the US election and Lloyd has recently re-watched Back to the Future 2. Last year, BTTF’s writer, Bob Gale, confirmed that he and the director, Robert Zemeckis had, as fans long suspected, based the depiction of the wealthy and – in that particular film – politically powerful bully, Biff Tannen, on one Donald J Trump.
For fecks sake. How embarrassing.

Quote taken from this lovely interview with Christopher Lloyd.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...beast-he-needs-to-be-put-in-a-cage?CMP=twt_gu
 

The Firestarter

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No, not Col. "Godfather" Ferrando. Gen. Mattis only really appears when they're strongpointing a bridge before a city with a BCT, and he shows up to complain about the pace of advance with the Colonel in-charge of the BCT (who is later relieved of his command).

As weird as it would be to have a former General as SecDef, Mattis is well-regarded and has a reputation for being a thinker, but also for saying some out-of-line stuff at times. You can see from his views that he's not bound to Rep or Dem party lines on issues, since on different issues you seem to find him on different sides. To me this is usually a sign that a person thinks for themselves, and also does so honestly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mattis
Right, that was Godfather. There are many ways to look at it, but way may end up with the following: A former general as SecDef, a former general as Nat.Sec. advisor, an ultra right wing nutcase as "chief strategist" , and a an extremely short tempered and thin skinned POTUS. And 4000 nukes on hair trigger alert. What could possibly go wrong?
 

SteveJ

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Right, that was Godfather. There are many ways to look at it, but way may end up with the following: A former general as SecDef, a former general as Nat.Sec. advisor, an ultra right wing nutcase as "chief strategist" , and a an extremely short tempered and thin skinned POTUS. And 4000 nukes on hair trigger alert. What could possibly go wrong?
"...precious bodily fluids."
 

The Firestarter

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Yeah, it's a big story in a lot of the press today and @MarceloFalcon also linked one of the sources above.

Melania doesn't want to take her 10 year old son out of school half way through a year. He's 10! not fecking 15. He's probably still doing painting by numbers at that age. It's just an excuse, and not a valid one because it's not really going to effect or disturb him either way. 10 year olds, even at top private schools won't be stuck to any special curriculum, and even if he was, are you telling me that there aren't equally adequate schools in DC? Or have all the previous Presidential families had trouble finding decent schools for their kids? No it's just an excuse, and the soon to be President has even said himself on numerous occasions that he will be spending as much time as he can in NYC. So yet again completely disrespecting years upon years of history and tradition and causing problems for everyone else too, not to mention untold expenses as well. But it's ok because he will be giving money back to the middle class won't he? Not wasting millions and millions unnecessarily on extra protection for him and his family because of completely selfish actions.

The vast majority of people in government, especially the President would want to be based in Washington as it's the centre of everything, the hub of politics. A businessman would more likely want to be located in NYC, well especially if the centre of HIS business is based there. Now of course his supporters are going to say it's ok and fine and what's the problem? but yet again they will be just wanting to stick a finger up to everyone else and enjoy the fact their guy is upsetting the norm once again. That's fair enough, and it certainly would be if it was for good reason, or for a noble or sensible cause, but it's not. It's for himself, just like everything the big lumbering buffoon does, it's completely selfish and this time he's disrespecting the most sacred and symbolic of all things in the USA. The Presidential office and the White House. Just wait until he wipes his arse with the Constitution live on TV from Drumpf Tower.
Isn't he practically required to live in the WH though? Security is only one aspect of this. You also have the West Wing , and other facilities and infrastructure that are designed to provide quickest reaction times to any events, for example the situation room and all the defense staff. He is not planning to even attempt to do a day-to-day president's job, isn't he? He will out-source that to Pence, making him Cheney on steroids.
 

senorgregster

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Yeah sorry. But it still means most of the country won't be able to watch it. Must be doing badly in the rating now. Joe Scarborough has some good things to say usually. Mark Halperin also.
I see. I always figured they were on tape delay but now I think of it without east/west MSNBC channels it is tough to do.
 

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There's a no fly zone over Trump tower and all the glass has been replaced with bullet proof glass.
Come on people
Only applies to private aircraft. Commercial, military and law enforcement aircraft have clearance. Still, it's definitely a pain... They've yanked a lane out of a major artery in the city.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Yeah, it's a big story in a lot of the press today and @MarceloFalcon also linked one of the sources above.

Melania doesn't want to take her 10 year old son out of school half way through a year. He's 10! not fecking 15. He's probably still doing painting by numbers at that age. It's just an excuse, and not a valid one because it's not really going to effect or disturb him either way. 10 year olds, even at top private schools won't be stuck to any special curriculum, and even if he was, are you telling me that there aren't equally adequate schools in DC? Or have all the previous Presidential families had trouble finding decent schools for their kids? No it's just an excuse, and the soon to be President has even said himself on numerous occasions that he will be spending as much time as he can in NYC. So yet again completely disrespecting years upon years of history and tradition and causing problems for everyone else too, not to mention untold expenses as well. But it's ok because he will be giving money back to the middle class won't he? Not wasting millions and millions unnecessarily on extra protection for him and his family because of completely selfish actions.
You know I can accept a parent not wishing to take their 10 year old out of school. But if that's the case don't apply for a job where you know in advance that moving home is expected. The fecking cheek of him to put his name forward as a candidate when his family isn't ready/willing to make the sacrifices expected of the role. He's already behaving disgracefully and he hasn't even started work yet!
 

langster

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Isn't he practically required to live in the WH though? Security is only one aspect of this. You also have the West Wing , and other facilities and infrastructure that are designed to provide quickest reaction times to any events, for example the situation room and all the defense staff. He is not planning to even attempt to do a day-to-day president's job, isn't he? He will out-source that to Pence, making him Cheney on steroids.
Yeah, that was pretty much the whole point I was making with regards to Washington DC being the focal point of government. As you rightly point out, there is far more to consider than just the security aspect of it all. Like you, I think he really is going to put Pence in charge while he just fecks off and takes all the cream off the top. He really is going to fleece the USA for everything he can, and it appears that he's not only going to be allowed, but people are actually going to sit back and watch while he does.

You know I can accept a parent not wishing to take their 10 year old out of school. But if that's the case don't apply for a job where you know in advance that moving home is expected. The fecking cheek of him to put his name forward as a candidate when his family isn't ready/willing to make the sacrifices expected of the role. He's already behaving disgracefully and he hasn't even started work yet!
I agree completely. He's an embarrassment and already disgracing the office and the name of the job he has taken, and now on top of that, the national symbolic home too. As I said pages ago though, he hasn't thought about what this job entails for more than 5 minutes. He did it initially for a publicity stunt and it's only his ego and arrogance that made him continue, hence why he is planning a tour of the country to hold more rallies because he literally thrives off the adulation he receives at them. It's pathetic. If he was remotely serious he would spend all that time working hard on policies and the job at hand, but he hasn't a fecking clue, nor does he give a shit either. What's even worse is that people can't say they weren't warned, all this was speculated and spoken about for months and months, so his supporters and voters have really only got themselves to blame because they didn't heed the warnings and were too caught up in rebelling or hating Hillary or whatever reason they voted the way they did. They won't be bothered though and no doubt will turn out in their thousands to literally blow smoke up his arse at the completely pointless and needless rallies he will be holding, at the taxpayers expense I might like to point out!
 

The Firestarter

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G.W.Bush did tarnish the image of the U.S.A abroad somewhat, but Obama to a large extent rectified things, projecting the basic American dream that anyone of any race or color can rise to the top. After this guy, there may not be any image left to recover. He is already a running joke around the world and that is before stepping into office. The US really seem to be making one step forward, e^16 steps backward.
 

SteveJ

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...he is planning a tour of the country to hold more rallies because he literally thrives off the adulation he receives at them.
That's no doubt part of it - the other part is a warning shot to any who might seek to dethrone him; it's a warning about people-power and potential civil war.
 
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