Music The Ultimate Metal thread.

JimmyWils

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Can't beat dwarf metal.
Just when I thought I'd seen it all. In fairness, this is a lot more preferable to the loads of pirate metal nonsense.

Happy to see a bit of a different genre though, everybody seems to be really into deathcore/metal and I can't really weigh in on that for somebody the usual metalcore stuff!
 

Abraxas

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Ne Obliviscaris is very good. I'm not sure about its staying power, though. The skill is always there and they've obviously put a lot of effort in it, but the final third of the album feels a bit stale. We'll see, it's definitely a good album.

As for Liturgy, i'll pass. The music, in general, doesn't hold up for me. There's no feeling to it, no substance. I blame Deafheaven for much of this trend in extreme/prog metal.

Anyway, i showed all the lists to a friend of mine and he asked me to tell you that you deserve a standing ovation for Molested. You also get a thumbs up from me for Starspawn. But i can't say i enjoyed their last one... Portal are a weird case for me. They are one of these bands that i know i should like, but i can't really get into.
Admittedly these are ratings based on one spin. So probably not very accurate. I tend to overrate prog stuff on first listen then downgrade them once I get a more realistic view.

I think with Portal if you don't really get into one album then there's not much point with the rest. Ultimately they more or less do the same thing album after album. The only big difference is production and how that impacts the soundscape they're trying to produce.

I'm the same with Ulcerate which many love and compare with Portal, presumably only because they use dissonance. I recognise the skill in that, but I don't feel anything for it. I feel like I'm a passive bystander listening to noodling and nodding my head in admiration. More like a professorial role than getting lost in the music.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Admittedly these are ratings based on one spin. So probably not very accurate. I tend to overrate prog stuff on first listen then downgrade them once I get a more realistic view.

I think with Portal if you don't really get into one album then there's not much point with the rest. Ultimately they more or less do the same thing album after album. The only big difference is production and how that impacts the soundscape they're trying to produce.

I'm the same with Ulcerate which many love and compare with Portal, presumably only because they use dissonance. I recognise the skill in that, but I don't feel anything for it. I feel like I'm a passive bystander listening to noodling and nodding my head in admiration. More like a professorial role than getting lost in the music.
I get it about Ulcerate. I like them personally, but, as a friend has has said: "I hit play and my jaw drops from the quality of the music and the lyrics. I never think about stopping play. But when i finish the album, i never think about listening to it again".

I think the only metalheads who don't overrate prog are the ones who don't like it at all. I know a couple of people who are like that. But i believe that since metal lost any kind of popularity it enjoyed in the 80s (as a byproduct of glam/hair metal) and as guitar music was becoming less prominent in the mainstream, good musicianship/experimentation became one of its defining traits. It became the answer to the question "why should i bother with all that noise?". "Because the music can offer much more than accompanying the singer". It's something i do, too.

Speaking of Kiwis, Aussies and dissonance, i am spinning Ascetic Reflection by Altars recently and i'm enjoying it. Same with Artificial Brain's self-titled. This one feels massive. Have you checked any of them out? As for new stuff, the new Invent Animate (Heavener) is getting stellar reviews in my corner of the world.
 

Abraxas

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I get it about Ulcerate. I like them personally, but, as a friend has has said: "I hit play and my jaw drops from the quality of the music and the lyrics. I never think about stopping play. But when i finish the album, i never think about listening to it again".

I think the only metalheads who don't overrate prog are the ones who don't like it at all. I know a couple of people who are like that. But i believe that since metal lost any kind of popularity it enjoyed in the 80s (as a byproduct of glam/hair metal) and as guitar music was becoming less prominent in the mainstream, good musicianship/experimentation became one of its defining traits. It became the answer to the question "why should i bother with all that noise?". "Because the music can offer much more than accompanying the singer". It's something i do, too.

Speaking of Kiwis, Aussies and dissonance, i am spinning Ascetic Reflection by Altars recently and i'm enjoying it. Same with Artificial Brain's self-titled. This one feels massive. Have you checked any of them out? As for new stuff, the new Invent Animate (Heavener) is getting stellar reviews in my corner of the world.
Are you a Gorguts fan as well? They're a bit more for me than Ulcerate. An album like Obscura feels a little more occult compared to the clinical performances of Ulcerate. That makes all the difference for me. I think it can be seen from my list that I'm not a big time listener of technical death metal, so it's not so much the dissonance as I'm onboard with that with bands like DsO, or Mitochondrian in death metal, it's really a stylistic one around production and over emphasis on wankery. That's where I lose feeling and engagement for the music.

I've not really looked at Altars or Artificial Brain, I'll have a go and report back. I was trying to recall who Artificial Brain were and I just kept imagining Gigantic Brain. Which is an entirely different proposition.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Are you a Gorguts fan as well? They're a bit more for me than Ulcerate. An album like Obscura feels a little more occult compared to the clinical performances of Ulcerate. That makes all the difference for me. I think it can be seen from my list that I'm not a big time listener of technical death metal, so it's not so much the dissonance as I'm onboard with that with bands like DsO, or Mitochondrian in death metal, it's really a stylistic one around production and over emphasis on wankery. That's where I lose feeling and engagement for the music.

I've not really looked at Altars or Artificial Brain, I'll have a go and report back. I was trying to recall who Artificial Brain were and I just kept imagining Gigantic Brain. Which is an entirely different proposition.
Oh yes, Obscura made it to my DM list. It's a sick album. I get the points about clinical performances and the instrumental "masturbation". I don't find it bad per se, some bands can make it work while others can't. At their best, Ulcerate can be immersive for me. I also believe that shifting their focus to the more technical aspects of songwriting is what kept a band like Cannibal Corpse alive when the shock element wore off. I am looking forward to your opinion. I'm listening to your suggestion, Mi'gauss, now on the way back from work and it is quite impressive.
 

Abraxas

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Oh yes, Obscura made it to my DM list. It's a sick album. I get the points about clinical performances and the instrumental "masturbation". I don't find it bad per se, some bands can make it work while others can't. At their best, Ulcerate can be immersive for me. I also believe that shifting their focus to the more technical aspects of songwriting is what kept a band like Cannibal Corpse alive when the shock element wore off. I am looking forward to your opinion. I'm listening to your suggestion, Mi'gauss, now on the way back from work and it is quite impressive.
Ulcerate are so good at what they do they can definitely get away with it more than most.

True. To be fair Cannibal Corpse are still fairly basic with the way death metal has progressed in their time. I think it's only because they started from such a raw, simplistic starting point that it now seems technical. But technical by their standards I'd say. I know a lot look down their nose at them but I put them on all the time. Especially in the gym when I don't need something to concentrate on. Good, simple fun. All their albums are a 7/10 at worst for me. The Bleeding probably a 10/10.

Glad you like it!
 

Abraxas

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Couple more recent releases I managed to check out.

Häxanu - Totenpass (melodic black). Some fairly generic stuff here. Not bad, not especially memorable, I'm thinking a 6/10 for this.

Hellripper - Warlocks Grim & Withered Hags (speed/black). Now we're talking. Strong from this one man Scottish act. Extremely polished, fast, memorable riffs, strong black metal vocals, strong aesthetic. 7.5/10.
 

Ainu

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Couple more recent releases I managed to check out.

Häxanu - Totenpass (melodic black). Some fairly generic stuff here. Not bad, not especially memorable, I'm thinking a 6/10 for this.

Hellripper - Warlocks Grim & Withered Hags (speed/black). Now we're talking. Strong from this one man Scottish act. Extremely polished, fast, memorable riffs, strong black metal vocals, strong aesthetic. 7.5/10.
Saw them (well, him + live musicians) as one of the last bands at Amplifest last October, really impressive stuff. All songs basically had one tempo: fast as hell, but it's just a fun time. Had a chat with him after the show, he's a cool and funny dude as well.
 

Abraxas

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Has anyone tried the bizarrely named project Esoctrilihum?

Absolutely insane stuff for one man to put together. A hellish concoction of black and death metal. Dense, atmospheric, layered to oblivion, it's really ambitious and impressive stuff even if he could probably do with a really good editor to trim the fat off some of these cuts.

I think there's a ton to like for people that are into the atmospherics and compositional might of a band like Ruins of Beverast, the dissonance and complexity of Deathspell Omega or the murk and grime of Incantation.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Has anyone tried the bizarrely named project Esoctrilihum?

Absolutely insane stuff for one man to put together. A hellish concoction of black and death metal. Dense, atmospheric, layered to oblivion, it's really ambitious and impressive stuff even if he could probably do with a really good editor to trim the fat off some of these cuts.

I think there's a ton to like for people that are into the atmospherics and compositional might of a band like Ruins of Beverast, the dissonance and complexity of Deathspell Omega or the murk and grime of Incantation.
Isn't he the guy who churns out a new album every 8–10 months, like Prince? What i've listened to from them, i mostly liked. I agree with the comment about trimming the fat, though. At some point, it just becomes... too much. Nowadays, only Iron Maiden are in more dire need of some (self-)editing. But the quality and the creativity are always present. But, it also begs the question: Is it deathened black or blackened death? :D

I would like to recommend Aara's Triade trilogy, the third part of which, named Nyx, was released recently. They're a black metal act from Switzerland with a great sense of melody and atmosphere and the craftsmanship to pull it off. The three parts, Eos-Hemera-Nyx tell the classic gothic tale of Melmoth the Wanderer by Maturin. The songs are in German (it might put some people off) and, as is often the case with BM, the vocals take some time to get used to.

While waiting for the new Overkill... OK, and the new Metallica... to arrive, i tried to come up with a decent thrash list:

1) Slayer - Reign In Blood.
2) Metallica - Master Of Puppets.
3) Megadeth - Rust In Peace.
4) Sodom - Agent Orange.
5) Kreator - Pleasure To Kill.
6) Anthrax - Among The Living.
7) Death Angel - The Ultra-Violence.
8) Overkill - The Years Of Decay.
9) Testament - The New Order.
10) Exodus - Bonded By Blood.
11) Forbidden - Forbidden Evil.
12) Destruction - Eternal Devastation.
13) Onslaught - The Force.
14) Sabbat - Dreamweaver.
15) Coroner - Mental Vortex.
16) Voivod - Dimension Hatross.
17) Sepultura - Beneath The Remains.
18) Dark Angel - Darkness Descends.
19) Heathen - Victims Of Deception.
20) Annihilator - Alice in Hell.
21) Mekong Delta - The Music Of Erich Zann.
22) Vektor - Terminal Redux.
23) Flotsam & Jetsam - No Place For Disgrace.
24) Artillery - By Inheritence.
25) Sacred Reich - Ignorance.
26) Atrophy - Violent By Nature.
27) Razor - Violent Restitution.
28) Exhorder - Slaughter In The Vatican.
29) Morbid Saint - Spectrum Of Death.
30) Demolition Hammer - Epidemic Of Violence.

No Possessed, Celtic Frost or other similar acts because the lines between genres get blurred with them. Perhaps Vio-lence should be up there. And i'm sure i'm forgetting several others.
 

DavelinaJolie

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I was never a big thrash fan, but Mental Vortex would certainly be up there. Stunning album, Coroner really were special.

I caught Devin Townsend on his recent tour, excellent show and great to hear him belting out 'Bad Devil' live. It's always a treat when you see a band for the first time and they play your favourite track. I've never been much of a DT fan, but I think his music makes a lot more sense in the live setting than on record because you get more of the energy and less of the overly processed sound. That said his guitar sound was still heavy as balls. The Terria material sounded brilliant.
 

Abraxas

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Isn't he the guy who churns out a new album every 8–10 months, like Prince? What i've listened to from them, i mostly liked. I agree with the comment about trimming the fat, though. At some point, it just becomes... too much. Nowadays, only Iron Maiden are in more dire need of some (self-)editing. But the quality and the creativity are always present. But, it also begs the question: Is it deathened black or blackened death? :D

I would like to recommend Aara's Triade trilogy, the third part of which, named Nyx, was released recently. They're a black metal act from Switzerland with a great sense of melody and atmosphere and the craftsmanship to pull it off. The three parts, Eos-Hemera-Nyx tell the classic gothic tale of Melmoth the Wanderer by Maturin. The songs are in German (it might put some people off) and, as is often the case with BM, the vocals take some time to get used to.

While waiting for the new Overkill... OK, and the new Metallica... to arrive, i tried to come up with a decent thrash list:

1) Slayer - Reign In Blood.
2) Metallica - Master Of Puppets.
3) Megadeth - Rust In Peace.
4) Sodom - Agent Orange.
5) Kreator - Pleasure To Kill.
6) Anthrax - Among The Living.
7) Death Angel - The Ultra-Violence.
8) Overkill - The Years Of Decay.
9) Testament - The New Order.
10) Exodus - Bonded By Blood.
11) Forbidden - Forbidden Evil.
12) Destruction - Eternal Devastation.
13) Onslaught - The Force.
14) Sabbat - Dreamweaver.
15) Coroner - Mental Vortex.
16) Voivod - Dimension Hatross.
17) Sepultura - Beneath The Remains.
18) Dark Angel - Darkness Descends.
19) Heathen - Victims Of Deception.
20) Annihilator - Alice in Hell.
21) Mekong Delta - The Music Of Erich Zann.
22) Vektor - Terminal Redux.
23) Flotsam & Jetsam - No Place For Disgrace.
24) Artillery - By Inheritence.
25) Sacred Reich - Ignorance.
26) Atrophy - Violent By Nature.
27) Razor - Violent Restitution.
28) Exhorder - Slaughter In The Vatican.
29) Morbid Saint - Spectrum Of Death.
30) Demolition Hammer - Epidemic Of Violence.

No Possessed, Celtic Frost or other similar acts because the lines between genres get blurred with them. Perhaps Vio-lence should be up there. And i'm sure i'm forgetting several others.
That's the guy. I'm working through the discography. It's definitely something for a certain mood so it'll probably take me a few weeks.

Haha, your point is well taken there. I don't even know what I'd call it in truth, it certainly doesn't fit neatly alongside Dissection. It reminds me of stuff like Antediluvian, Abyssal and Mitochondrian but probably even more ambitious.

I'll try your recommendation, looks like it'd probably work for me.

I'll have a think about my thrash list. It was probably my starting point in metal but I fear I'm quite out of touch and therefore my choices might be quite generic. I can't wait to include Bathory's self-titled or 'The Return..' and feel pretty smug about it.
 

Abraxas

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Artist: Ripped to Shreds
Album: 劇變 (Jubian)
Release date: 2022
Genre: Death Metal, Melodic Death, Deathgrind
Reccomended for fans of: Entombed, Asphyx, Napalm Death

Really solid Swedish styled death metal with some grind influences (I believe the band name is taken from a Terrorizer song). The vocals take some orientation. A deserved 7/10 for this one.

 

Bole Top

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is this catchy or what?

I used to make fun of my friend's choice of music in his car, since he often used to play folk and power metal bands. I never trully listened or even had an honest opinion about them, it was only a joke from my side anyway since the whole idea of folk metal sounded silly to me. that was about 15 years ago.

and yet, for the last 5 days I've been listening to Wintersun - Wintersun, Amorphis - Silent Waters and fecking Slania by Eluveitie. Wintersun in particular played during the both CL games this week.

even when I was younger, I used to avoid such bands like plague. I don't even remember why. I listen Karl Sanders and Wardruna regularly and I like both folk and ambient music. but folk metal?

I don't know. maybe it's the heat, but lately I prefer the melodic stuff.
 

DavelinaJolie

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Artist: Ripped to Shreds
Album: 劇變 (Jubian)
Release date: 2022
Genre: Death Metal, Melodic Death, Deathgrind
Reccomended for fans of: Entombed, Asphyx, Napalm Death

Really solid Swedish styled death metal with some grind influences (I believe the band name is taken from a Terrorizer song). The vocals take some orientation. A deserved 7/10 for this one.

Had a quick sample of that, sounds interesting. I've been on a real Entombed kick of late so some fuzzy death metal is right where I'm at.

Will listen to the album in the week.
 

nimic

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I don't have enough privileges to post in this thread, but I wanted to thank you all for doing the lords work. Especially Abraxas - a veritable metal library. I just wanted to share..... tonight is Svafnir, The Heathen Chapters, with Conan The Barbarian (1982 - the best film ever made) in the background.
@subotai on my profile.
 

Abraxas

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Artist: Ὁπλίτης (Hoplites)
Album: Ψευδομένη
Release date: 2023
Country: China
Genre: Black Metal, Death Metal
Reccomended for fans of: Deathspell Omega, Gorguts, Dillinger Escape Plan

Notes: A one man Chinese black metal project utilising Greek language and themes and a heavily dissonant/mathcore influenced style. What could go wrong? Not much apparently, this is a really impressive effort. I actually liked his newer album (also released this year) slightly better, but it's not on YT. I am giving this a 7/10 and the newest release 8/10.



Artist: Fires in the Distance
Album: Air Not Meant for Us
Release date: 2023
Country: USA
Genre: Death Doom, Melodic Death
Reccomended for fans of: My Dying Bride, Swallow the Sun, Insomnium

Notes: I have been on a Doom/Death Doom binge of late, and I have a feeling this one is going to be really hard to shake as a potential album of the year. Beautiful piano, heavy riffs, just outstanding musicianship on this one. Vocals made all the better for their sparse use. 10/10.

 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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I second Air Not Meant For Us, there are some amazing melodies in it. Perfect choice, if you're into this stuff. It's on its way, along with Non est Deus and Cattle Decapitation's new albums. I also got this in my YT recommendations. It should be interesting for those who like this melodic doom material:
 

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I've been into thrash and metal my whole life, but somehow Static X evaded me until the last few months and now I can't stop playing their "Wisconsin Death Trip" and "Shadow Zone" albums. Masterpieces.

 

Oranges038

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I've been into thrash and metal my whole life, but somehow Static X evaded me until the last few months and now I can't stop playing their "Wisconsin Death Trip" and "Shadow Zone" albums. Masterpieces.

First band I ever saw live, they were supporting Korn at the Point in Dublin about 20 years ago had never really heard of them before. Lack of internet and Kerrang on the TV back in them days. They were fecking awesome, have been a fan ever since. One of my favourite bands of all time, and I was just listening to Shadow Zone this morning when I saw this.

Wisconsin death trip & Shadow zone are probably their best albums. The rest while not as good overall, still have some good points.

They are back touring again with Edsel Dope fronting up the band after Project Regeneration.
 

Abraxas

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I second Air Not Meant For Us, there are some amazing melodies in it. Perfect choice, if you're into this stuff. It's on its way, along with Non est Deus and Cattle Decapitation's new albums. I also got this in my YT recommendations. It should be interesting for those who like this melodic doom material:
Looking forward to Cattle Decapitation. After an ignominious start to their career where they were certainly purveyors of terribly crude grind, they've smashed it out of the park in their last 4 releases. They're probably the standard bearers for death-grind as far as I can see at the moment.

I will check out the album you linked, sounds interesting. Never heard of them, which always gets me excited.
 

Bole Top

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Advaitic Songs by Om is brilliant. it's closer to meditation music than to a doom album.

 

DavelinaJolie

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Random aside, just thought I'd mention the Radical Research podcast, featuring Jeff Wagner and Hunter Ginn. Generally they focus on progressive/avant-garde metal, and it's pretty good stuff. I starting following it when they did a really cool episode on My Dying Bride's "34.788%...Complete" (a tragically underrated album IMO) and it's just interesting listening as they cover really cool stuff.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Random aside, just thought I'd mention the Radical Research podcast, featuring Jeff Wagner and Hunter Ginn. Generally they focus on progressive/avant-garde metal, and it's pretty good stuff. I starting following it when they did a really cool episode on My Dying Bride's "34.788%...Complete" (a tragically underrated album IMO) and it's just interesting listening as they cover really cool stuff.
I'll check it out. Especially the episode you mentioned, since i love revisiting the albums from the 90s and reflect on the particularities which shaped the metal sound of that era. As for the aforementioned album, it's not bad, but i wouldn't -myself- describe it as tragically underrated. The misfortune it suffered was that, in an era when there seemed to be no middle ground among the critics (and we relied on them, back then, to point us toward the good stuff), it was quickly discarded as rubbish. I still remember the summary of the review in one of the two magazines we had in my part of the world, which was: "There's only 65.212% of My Dying Bride... left". The text below was pure vitriol.

On one hand, it was understandable. The 90s were a time when metal musicians strived for any kind of commercial relevance. This led to experimentations that, more often than not, sounded forced and uncomfortable (the thrash metal bands coming out of the 80s and trying to incorporate nu-metal's grooviness are a prime example of this). I've always had two main issues (and electronic elements is not one of them, i quite enjoy them). Firstly, making the vocals, and in particular the clean vocals, the facilitator to sell the songs. Most "extreme" metal bands possessed neither the quality nor the know-how in that department. Then, you have the approach to the music itself, which seemed to follow the general rule of stripping everything down to its bare bones (to favour atmosphere). Something that, for lots of metal bands who weren't used to it, killed any sense of dynamics in the songs.

Now, "34.788%... complete" stands somewhere in the middle. Aaron's cleans aren't particularly good, but they are quite recognizable. And the band actually sounds like they wanted to do this album. Still, there are more than enough bumps on the road from start to finish. At its bet, it sounds interesting. But there are also chunks of it that are flat and boring. In a year that saw The Gathering releasing How To Measure A Planet, Anathema getting "Alternative 4" out, Katatonia's "Discouraged Ones" or even Ulver's "Themes...", you can see why the album was shunted aside, and the band abandoned the experimentations.
 

DavelinaJolie

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I'll check it out. Especially the episode you mentioned, since i love revisiting the albums from the 90s and reflect on the particularities which shaped the metal sound of that era. As for the aforementioned album, it's not bad, but i wouldn't -myself- describe it as tragically underrated. The misfortune it suffered was that, in an era when there seemed to be no middle ground among the critics (and we relied on them, back then, to point us toward the good stuff), it was quickly discarded as rubbish. I still remember the summary of the review in one of the two magazines we had in my part of the world, which was: "There's only 65.212% of My Dying Bride... left". The text below was pure vitriol.

On one hand, it was understandable. The 90s were a time when metal musicians strived for any kind of commercial relevance. This led to experimentations that, more often than not, sounded forced and uncomfortable (the thrash metal bands coming out of the 80s and trying to incorporate nu-metal's grooviness are a prime example of this). I've always had two main issues (and electronic elements is not one of them, i quite enjoy them). Firstly, making the vocals, and in particular the clean vocals, the facilitator to sell the songs. Most "extreme" metal bands possessed neither the quality nor the know-how in that department. Then, you have the approach to the music itself, which seemed to follow the general rule of stripping everything down to its bare bones (to favour atmosphere). Something that, for lots of metal bands who weren't used to it, killed any sense of dynamics in the songs.

Now, "34.788%... complete" stands somewhere in the middle. Aaron's cleans aren't particularly good, but they are quite recognizable. And the band actually sounds like they wanted to do this album. Still, there are more than enough bumps on the road from start to finish. At its bet, it sounds interesting. But there are also chunks of it that are flat and boring. In a year that saw The Gathering releasing How To Measure A Planet, Anathema getting "Alternative 4" out, Katatonia's "Discouraged Ones" or even Ulver's "Themes...", you can see why the album was shunted aside, and the band abandoned the experimentations.
I've usually found it interesting when bands have that uncomfortable transitional album and also find the later reappraisals curious. Heroin Chic is obviously very far out (though when you consider they covered Roads by Portishead for a compilation in the same year, makes more sense), but there's a really interesting blending and smoothing of the old with a weird spacey vibe in things like The Whore, The Cook and The Mother that gets me. I also really like the vocal delivery, it's completely unrefined, but I get a lot from the weariness Aaron exudes, and for me the vocals that usually hit me hardest are the ones that sound unpolished and raw. Der Überlebende is a chef's kiss moment, the mood of that is astounding, they capture something in the lethargy but also in the floating guitar tone.

The problem I had listening to that podcast is now I can't unhear the similarities between Apocalypse Woman and Viva Emptiness-era Katatonia.

Often I imagine bands immerse themselves in different things over time and that just has a natural impact in how they see and write their own music. That said it's always hard to discern motive. If anything, to me, MDB retreated to safety afterwards which seemed a more appeasing move, much like Paradise Lost did after Believe In Nothing (although I think that album was pretty weak in itself, especially after the excellent Host). I like these kind of adventurous albums where Artists go for something, even when they don't work out entirely, and they usually come along after a few albums of building on a formula.

Curiously I never felt a pull with Ulver's themes, it seemed overly dense and lacked something that I could never put my finger on. But the releases around it really struck me in their competence transitioning rapidly to different musical styles.
 

Bole Top

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funnily enough, I've been listening to the Nighttime Birds for the last 3 or 4 days. such a lovely album, and I don't really listen to such bands. I wonder if anyone has similar album to recommend. female vocals aren't a necessity, but the thing is, Anekke is the biggest reason I'm enjoying it so much. it was the same with Anathema, I enjoyed their latest albums more than their "cult" releases.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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I've usually found it interesting when bands have that uncomfortable transitional album and also find the later reappraisals curious. Heroin Chic is obviously very far out (though when you consider they covered Roads by Portishead for a compilation in the same year, makes more sense), but there's a really interesting blending and smoothing of the old with a weird spacey vibe in things like The Whore, The Cook and The Mother that gets me. I also really like the vocal delivery, it's completely unrefined, but I get a lot from the weariness Aaron exudes, and for me the vocals that usually hit me hardest are the ones that sound unpolished and raw. Der Überlebende is a chef's kiss moment, the mood of that is astounding, they capture something in the lethargy but also in the floating guitar tone.

The problem I had listening to that podcast is now I can't unhear the similarities between Apocalypse Woman and Viva Emptiness-era Katatonia.

Often I imagine bands immerse themselves in different things over time and that just has a natural impact in how they see and write their own music. That said it's always hard to discern motive. If anything, to me, MDB retreated to safety afterwards which seemed a more appeasing move, much like Paradise Lost did after Believe In Nothing (although I think that album was pretty weak in itself, especially after the excellent Host). I like these kind of adventurous albums where Artists go for something, even when they don't work out entirely, and they usually come along after a few albums of building on a formula.

Curiously I never felt a pull with Ulver's themes, it seemed overly dense and lacked something that I could never put my finger on. But the releases around it really struck me in their competence transitioning rapidly to different musical styles.
It has its moments, i can't deny that. For me, it falls into the category of albums i need to be in the right mood to listen from start to finish, but i won't mind one or another song now and then. I also believe that it's crucial that you like the vocals. Most of the successful experimentations were built upon the abilities of the singers to carry the songs on their shoulders. Clean, refined and right at the forefront. Emotive, but without the extravagance and the larger than life feel that was synonymous with metal in the 80s and the extreme genres of the 90s. For better or worse, 34.788%... Complete doesn't provide that. Aaron's approach, imho, contributes to the album sounding stuck between two worlds and in the middle of a transition. Perhaps, if MDB had followed it up with an album that would have completed the transition, people would look back at it more favourably.

Yeah, now that you mention it, i can see where they're coming from. The difference is that most Katatonia songs don't outstay their welcome. There's something tense in their sound, they give you the feeling that something interesting is always just around the corner. Whereas Apocalypse Woman, for instance, is kind of meandering toward the end. It has this cool drum beat that grips you, but after 7–8 minutes, you're happy to move on to the next song.

I maintain that the 90s was the period of time when metal had to fight to stay relevant. This, of course, doesn't make every experimentation during that period a dishonest money-grabbing attempt. Since you mentioned them, Holmes and Mackintosh are both huge Depeche Mode fans. Vincent Cavanagh worships Pink Floyd. Garm always wanted to play electronic music. Max Cavalera has said that Korn's debut blew his mind away. You even listen to Metallica nowadays and you understand that they actually enjoyed recording Load/Reload. Ihsahn very recently declared Radiohead the most interesting band in the world and he covered A-Ha and Portishead (Roads, which probably means that he's aware of MDB's effort). The list is endless, and it's naive to think that metal musicians don't have other influences besides metal. Thing is, the pertinent question back then was: persevere or change. In 2023, with guitar music dead and buried in the mainstream and with metal having become a safe harbour for musicians who want to delve into an instrument, one can argue that persevere was the right choice. On the other hand, some absolute gems were the result of these experimentations. And the big plus is that this mixing/blending of styles, when done the right way, gets much more appreciation among younger generations.

I'm with you regarding Host, fantastic album. Mackintosh has mentioned that they had very little creative freedom when they were writing Believe In Nothing and they were actually relieved when EMI let them go. There was Symbol Of Life afterwards which was nice (again, released in a time when Rammstein's popularity had peaked) and then they gradually returned to their earlier sound with the much underrated eponymous album.

@Bole Top

Both Mandylion and Nighttime Birds are 10/10 albums for me. Anneke is just special. Hard to find something similar. You could say that some of Katatonia's work is close to Anathema. Messa, maybe, an Italian doom band with amazing female vocals that really make a difference...
 

Bole Top

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@Bole Top

Both Mandylion and Nighttime Birds are 10/10 albums for me. Anneke is just special. Hard to find something similar.
I was afraid of that. I was about 15 when I first heard "Illuminating" from my sister's room, but never bothered with the rest of the album even though I liked the song. I've always avoided such bands in those days but recently I was in the mood for something like that and got it 100% right with the Nighttime Birds. it's been the only album on my playlist since sunday, it's that good. Mandylion is the obvious next step, I'll try Messa as well.

certain Katatonia and Type O Negative albums were actually the first on my list to listen, but then I remembered how accessible late Anathema albums were when I first heard them, tried The Gathering after almost 20 years and now I can't even imagine anyone recreating similar mood without clean vocals.
 

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I was afraid of that. I was about 15 when I first heard "Illuminating" from my sister's room, but never bothered with the rest of the album even though I liked the song. I've always avoided such bands in those days but recently I was in the mood for something like that and got it 100% right with the Nighttime Birds. it's been the only album on my playlist since sunday, it's that good. Mandylion is the obvious next step, I'll try Messa as well.

certain Katatonia and Type O Negative albums were actually the first on my list to listen, but then I remembered how accessible late Anathema albums were when I first heard them, tried The Gathering after almost 20 years and now I can't even imagine anyone recreating similar mood without clean vocals.
Yup, even their non-metal efforts are great. Mandylion and Nighttime Birds are labelled either doomy or gothic by metalheads, but i believe that neither label does them justice. They are accessible but, at the same time, the songs are interesting. And this separates them from the multitude of female-led metal bands. And, of course, there's Anneke who elevates the songs to the stratosphere with her singing ability.

Having said that, if you enjoyed the goth-metal thing that was going on in the 90s, maybe you should also give Theatre Of Tragedy a try. The more metal Velvet Darkness They Fear or the fully atmospheric Aegis. The former has a duet consisting of male brutal (mostly) and female clean vocals, and the latter is as gothic as you can imagine. Not exactly like The Gathering, different aesthetics to them with a Victorian-like era decadence to go with the melancholy, but good albums nonetheless. And Liv Kristine was also quite popular back then.

I agree about Anathema. Especially, We're Here Because We're Here and Weather Systems are such magnificently beautiful albums. Well, i guess i know what i'm going to be listening to on my way from work.
 

Abraxas

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Artist: Cattle Decapitation
Album: Terrasite
Release date: 2023
Country: USA
Genre: Death Metal

Notes: The most noteworthy thing is the blisteringly precise drums, almost machine like. Also there is a complete absence of grind influence now, which depending on one's leanings could be seen as a good or bad thing. For me it reduces the variety. I think the production is maybe a little too clinical and sanitised. I don't think there is anything here that outcompetes "Monolith of Inhumanity" for variety. Also a few of the vocal stylings are quite distracting to my ears. Still, I will give it 6/10, it's a decent slab of modern death metal but probably a bit long given the nature of the songs.

 

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I think i agree despite being a bit more generous. It's good for what it is and it gives you the fix you expected diving into it. But, when you reach the end, you're left with the sense that there should be much more. There's always the question of how much you can push the envelope in the confines of these genres. In contrast, Endarkment by AN was AotY material during the pandemic.