The Unofficial Cricket Forum thread

[arnie sidebottom]

Looks like Vaughan is going to walk into the job. That would be a mistake, in my view. He's under enough pressure as our only world class Test batsman, without giving him all the captaincy shit as well. He's not even got a particularly good one day record.

My vote - and God, this hurts - is Adam Hollioake, he of the dreaded Surrey.

The decision will be made on Tuesday. I know there are at least 2 other cricket fans on RC - any views ?

 

[vijay]

Vaughan is world class in Test Matches.I think he is the only candidate available for the post.Yes he hasn't got a good one day record.What about Hussian?.when he took over the captaincy his one day record was not good.But he proved to be a strong leader.

 

[vijay]

Here are their One day records
Adam 35 30 6 606 83* 25.25 75.09
Vaughan 26 25 1 564 63 23.50 74.30

Not much difference...except that Vaughan is world class.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

vijay - Hussain has stepped down, so he's in effect ruled himself out of the job.

Whatever the batting statistics (and remember you are comparing a top order batsman with a middle order all rounder) Vaughan has no track record of leadership at any level, whereas Hollioake has.

Paul Collingwood badly injured himself in a meaningless friendly a few days ago so Hollioake is worth selection on his own merits.

I'd like to see Vaughan concentrate on being our batting mainstay. Hollioake's batting has come on leaps and bounds in the last year and (with Flintoff) we'd have a couple of handy 'at the death' bowlers.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

I can see a casting vote from Dans is needed here.

 

[vijay]

May be you will not agree with me but i consider
Adam Hollioake as - bits and pieces cricketer.He might come useful down the lower order and worth a place in the team.

He led England to victory in Sharjah.After that he did'nt achieve much as an international captain.whats your opinion on Adam's captaincy?Is he a good Leader?

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Actually I would agree with your 'bits and pieces' description, particularly just after Sharjah, because he failed to build on the reputation he made there.

But over the years Adam has earned a good leadership reputation (some think that his team Surrey are the Manchester Utd of Cricket) at English County level and his batting (last year) has come on leaps and bounds. His bowling is another matter - not a great record, admittedly, but I think he is worthy of another shot at international level and he has an excellent temperament.

Apropos of nothing, are you aware that Adam's younger (and more talented) brother Ben died in a car crash in the last couple of years ?

I've nothing against Vaughan - other than he's from Yawkshire - I just think that carrying England's batting single handedly is probably enough for any one man right now ! Also, on his occasional excursion into captaincy he has not shown any particular aptitude.

 

[vijay]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>
Apropos of nothing, are you aware that Adam's younger (and more talented) brother Ben died in a car crash in the last couple of years ?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I heard that...it was really a sad news.I have seen him once.A big loss for English Cricket.His talents were yet to fully blossom but already given a brief.. would have allowed him to go on and achieve much in the game.He has been an enigma since he first burst on to the international scene and there was something special in him.

 

[vijay]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>Actually I would agree with your 'bits and pieces' description, particularly just after Sharjah, because he failed to build on the reputation he made there.

But over the years Adam has earned a good leadership reputation (some think that his team Surrey are the Manchester Utd of Cricket) at English County level and his batting (last year) has come on leaps and bounds. His bowling is another matter - not a great record, admittedly, but I think he is worthy of another shot at international level and he has an excellent temperament.

I've nothing against Vaughan - other than he's from Yawkshire - I just think that carrying England's batting single handedly is probably enough for any one man right now ! Also, on his occasional excursion into captaincy he has not shown any particular aptitude.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Adam Hollioake might become a remarkable and successful one day captain he is not a genuine one-day all rounder is he?If he doesn't start looking a bit more special or makes show some consistency he'll find it hard to sustain a place in the team.He should first perform well and prove that he is worth a regular place in the team.

Vaughan might not have the captaincy experience.But Vaughan's temperament has impressed me a lot with vital innings at crucial moments against SouthAfrica Australia and India.He is strong and has the right attitude and application.Moreover by making Vaughan as captain,the long-term demands can be met as Vaughan will become battle-hardened soon.Moreover When Hussain calls it a day, then Vaughan will be more prepared(mentally) to take over the job.

 

[Dans]

Remember Mike Brearly?

Give it to Hollioake.

 

[vijay]

Cmon Dans..Adam Holliake?

 

[Dans]

The point being that sometimes you need the leadership qualities more than you do the sporting ability. He's not a bad player by any stretch of the imagination and personally I didn't think he did a bad job when he led Englands' one day team previously and you also have to say his record as Surrey captain cannot be questioned.

 

[giggzy]

Adam's not test quality. You can't have a specialised captain...in this day and age. Its not like Englands batting is anything specially...

Vaughan's the right man, he's a very good batsmen...and'll lead by example.

 

[Dans]

Giggzy, perhaps you should note the thread title before posting about Hollioakes' suitability as test captain.

 

[giggzy]

oops.


Hmmmm.....I agree, he should be given the one day captaincy.

 

[vijay]

Vaughan appointed as the captain
<a href="http://www.sportinglife.com/cricket/news/story_get.dor?STORY_NAME=cricket/03/05/06/CRICKET_Vaughan_Snap.html" target="_blank">HERE</a>..

 

[vijay]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>oops.


Hmmmm.....I agree, he should be given the one day captaincy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Giggzy explain...

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>Giggzy, perhaps you should note the thread title before posting about Hollioakes' suitability as test captain.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

This is what happens when part-time supporters stumble into your thread by accident...

Anyway....Vaughan it is. Not my personal preference but hope he does a great job.

C'mon England !! <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" /> <img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by vijay_vr:
<strong>
Giggzy explain...</strong><hr></blockquote>

He's got a good cricketing brain... and has captained England before, quite successfully IMO.

I think he's a decent enough batsmen, at one-day level.... and can bowl economically.

 

[Dans]

hehe Hollioake bowls 3 over for 35 runs as Surrey narrowly beat Staffordshire!

 

[vijay]

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>hehe Hollioake bowls 3 over for 35 runs as Surrey narrowly beat Staffordshire!</strong><hr></blockquote>

'kinell that was a close one.

Trip to Somerset for your boys in the next round (28th). Used to enjoy the Somerset away games. Excellent local hospitality.

SuperLancs are bound for Smoggyshire.

 

[Dans]

Uh?! Really? Shit. A case of split loyalties for me then - I used to be a member at Somerset. Remember the days of Botham, Richards and Garner fondly. There's a chap who plays for Somerset now - Parsons - I was his games captain at school! Little cnut

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>hehe Hollioake bowls 3 over for 35 runs as Surrey narrowly beat Staffordshire!</strong><hr></blockquote>

er.. and I thought he'd be economical on the international stage!!!!!!

 

[Dans]

Well, as is all too common Giggzy, you could be very, very wrong

 

[giggzy]

Then again, Staffordshire can be a match for anyone on their day. <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />

btw.. Is Saqlain still Surrey's overseas player?

 

[Dans]

He's there though Azhar Mahmood is too <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

 

[giggzy]

Thought only one overseas player was allowed per team??

Unless Saqlain's on international duty????

btw Arnie.. Lancy's going to sign Carl Hooper...! he may be the most underachieving batsman ever.... but boy, is he great to watch. Has there ever been a more elegant batsman to play international cricket!!?!

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>Has there ever been a more elegant batsman to play international cricket!!?!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Errrr, yes. Several.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

The answer to your question is...Clive Lloyd, before his knees gave in on him.

But I agree this is an excellent move by Lancs - Hooper used to be a tidy spin bowler as well, but I'm not sure that he turns the arm over any more.

I'm going to have see more of the lads this year, that's for sure. The batting line up, especially, looks strong and there's some useful young bowlers (Anderson & Hogg) coming through.

I reckon the glory days are returning to the 'other' OT !

Maybe Niall will create a cricket forum

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>He's there though Azhar Mahmood is too </strong><hr></blockquote>

Two overseas players allowed this year.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Errrr, yes. Several.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Names... other than Clive?


Obviously there have been many elegant batsmen in the history of the game... but I've haven't seen one as graceful as Hooper.

btw-when did Clive retire from test cricket?? didn't he captain the great Windies side containing..Holding, Garner, Roberts, Marshall and Croft??

 

[Dans]

I.V.A. Richards for one!

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>I.V.A. Richards for one!</strong><hr></blockquote>

hmmmmmmmm..........would you say he was 'graceful'? He's certainly the best batsmen I've seen... but graceful, I dunno. Hoopers like a swan...ie graceful, Richards was like a friggin whirlwind!! Masterblaster indeed!!

 

[Dans]

You must never have seen him play dude! He was the bollox. He could smack it about, hooks for sixes, pull for fours, pull for sixes even, but everything he did was just an awesome display of timing - he was simply the best.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

I hadn't thought of Viv Richards as 'graceful'.

Barry Richards, more like, Graham Pollock definitely (though even I barely remember him).

Azarhuddin in his prime and Tendulkar.

Gower is the nearest thing to 'graceful' England has produced and Derek Randall when he wasn't twitching at the crease like a bleedin' nervous wreck.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>You must never have seen him play dude! He was the bollox. He could smack it about, hooks for sixes, pull for fours, pull for sixes even, but everything he did was just an awesome display of timing - he was simply the best.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But not graceful....

Did you ever got to Bath cricket ground ? Adjacent to the rugby ground (I think)...and some good pubs nearby.

 

[giggzy]

Saw him play Dans, infact at OT

Agreed about Azharuddin...not too sure about Sachin, he's a bit unorthodox, tends to close the face of his bat.. a la Bradman. The thing I like about Hooper, is his backlift and the way he brings down his bat. I've hardly seen him hit across the line.. the man plays with a straight bat.

Saeed Anwar can be graceful imo.

 

[Dans]

Yeah went to all the festival grounds - wasn't quite into the booze then as perhaps I am now mind.

I.V.A. Richards was too graceful! Watch some tapes man - tell me he wasn't graceful then. Gower was poncey - if that's what you mean by graceful (giving catches to slips every other innings flashing) then we must beg to differ. Waht about Graeme Hick then?

 

[giggzy]

Never liked Hick, first of all he wasn't international class... secondly I didn't like the way he held his bat.. kin baseball-like!