The Virgin League Draft - SF2 - GodShaveTheQueen vs. Joga Bonito & Theon

[Joga Bonito]

Err, Finney played in a two striker system centrally. I have mentioned that at least 3-4 times now. And scored a tonne of goals and was adept with the physicality of the role considering the English league. At the same time played for England providing width on left.

You seem to be mistaken but I'm not questioning their goalscoring ability or their ability to play as a goalscoring inside forwards cutting in - both had spades of that.

They were both fine goalscoring inside forwards but aren't the types who could play the role which is expected of them here, playing ahead of a midfield square. Neither had the physicality or the wily centre forward movement or the ability to play as a foil for the midfield. I can buy T.Müller, Kalle, Boniperti, Rep, Gullit, Blokhin, Kubala etc playing those roles for example. I'd say they'd thrive and elevate that midfield set up alongside one of Hamrin or Finney (Finney preferably) because of their skillset.

dont think a single person has classified him as a rich man's Peter Crouch right from the very first game in the draft.

But you do have drafters dropping a great fit in Leandro for an inferior player in Maicon because Spencer & 6'0 ( that was tongue in cheek btw )

Now the very first question anyone should ask w.r.t fullbacks is, why did GSTQ not pick Leandro? Hypocritical much? The answer is very straight forward. Anyone with even a basic sense of drafting and football could bet that Joga Bonito would go for David Beckham and Rivellino. As I said earlier, with someone like Beckham providing crosses to someone like Spencer, its always best to have as many tall defenders as possible. Hence the physically stronger Maicon standing at 6'0 makes the cut.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

They were both fine goalscoring inside forwards but aren't the types who could play the role which is expected of them here, playing ahead of a midfield square. Neither had the physicality or the wily centre forward movement or the ability to play as a foil for the midfield. I can buy T.Müller, Kalle, Boniperti, Rep, Gullit, Blokhin, Kubala etc playing those roles for example. I'd say they'd thrive and elevate that midfield set up alongside one of Hamrin or Finney (Finney preferably) because of their skillset.

I don't agree with the premise that a No.9 is needed here. Sivori himself could move into the box as a pseudo No.9., Was physical enough despite his short stature. So was Finney for me who played in the English league all his life.

But you do have drafters dropping a great fit in Leandro for an inferior player in Maicon because Spencer & 6'0 ( that was tongue in cheek btw )

I know you are kidding, but putting in a team of good height is out of respect for his heading ability and Beckham's crossing ability. That is no way diminishes his all round game. I dropped Hamrin for Littbarski in the last game as well as the Francescoli and Marcelo flank deserved respect.

I can appreciate the good things in the opposition team, some drafters can't (that was tounge in cheek too )

 

[Joga Bonito]

I don't agree with the premise that a No.9 is needed here. Sivori himself could move into the box as a pseudo No.9., Was physical enough despite his short stature. So was Finney for me you played in the English league all his life.

I'd say I have a completely different view of these two players and the requirements of those roles in your set up, than you then, fair enough. Horses for courses and all that. Playing without a centre forward or without a relatively physical wide/inside forward, let alone in a midfield square, has always been a real point of contention on here. It's something that one could buy as an argument or potentially not 'see it'. No different to your opinion that Beckham isn't suited for his role in this set up for instance.

So I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I'm not just being critical for the sake of it or for point scoring

Either way we've both made our stances known, guess it's up to the drafters to make up their minds.

 

[Fortitude]

I'm glad height is a talking point, and I find/found it bizarre that it wasn't as teams are constructed in accordance with it in real life with shorter backlines being a rarity and noticeably tiny ones simply not being a thing, like ever in real life (as far as I'm aware), so a suspension of disbelief regarding it in drafts makes no sense, to me, at least.

Leap and repute can be used to a certain degree, but it has limits, imo.

Not going to go on and on here, again... (was ridiculously frustrating the first time round!) suffice it to say, it's something I always have in mind when looking at sides just for the simple fact it's a detail that can generate unnecessary inlets or advantages for very little work.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Either way we've both made our stances known, guess it's up to the drafters to make up their minds.

Aye.

Leap and repute can be used to a certain degree, but it has limits, imo.

This. Especially when the difference is more than half a foot when you compare the likes of Picchi/Vogts at 5'6/5'7 with Bonucci/Socrates/Bratseth at 6'3/6'4. Been banging on this since the start. I don't think any real world manager would setup a defense like this.

 

[Physiocrat]

I'm glad height is a talking point, and I find/found it bizarre that it wasn't as teams are constructed in accordance with it in real life with shorter backlines being a rarity and noticeably tiny ones simply not being a thing, like ever in real life (as far as I'm aware), so a suspension of disbelief regarding it in drafts makes no sense, to me, at least.

Leap and repute can be used to a certain degree, but it has limits, imo.

Not going to go on and on here, again... (was ridiculously frustrating the first time round!) suffice it to say, it's something I always have in mind when looking at sides just for the simple fact it's a detail that can generate unnecessary inlets or advantages for very little work.

I agree on heights. You always want at least one of the your CBs approaching 6ft just for set plays if for anything else. Also it is clear that certain managers in real life take account of height - Mourinho being the obvious example.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Now that Bonucci and Socrates' aerial ability has been proven in page 1 with footage, lets take the next 6 foot guy who apparently was not good in the air.

7 of Cerezo’s 25 goals for Roma were scored with his head, including his first league goal for the club, in the 5-1 win over Napoli on 30 October 1983.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Christ, the more I look, he seems to be a terrific header of the ball.

I am sorry @Himannv , but I need to tag you again just for that to be fair quite funny phrase which in reality couldn't have been more wrong by the look of it

 

[Himannv]

Very well, your giraffes can jump.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Very well, your giraffes can jump.

That is all I needed to hear

 

[harms]

People expected him to play a Xavi-type playmaker role, so now I'm conflicted on the kind of player he is. From what I saw of him, he seemed more like a world class dribbler, playmaker, and goalscorer who plays closer to goal than deeper in midfield, but the feedback I got seemed contradictory.

Wha-a-at?

As a separate point, Beckham is perfect for this role (edit: not the Xavi's one ).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Next up is the tallest guy in the team, Rune Bratseth - for an already tall guy, had a really good leap as well.

Wins the first header and assists the goal with a flick on (like I mentioned in page 1 - cc: @Šjor Bepo )

 

[Fortitude]

You guys crack me up.

Kudos for all the effort with the gifs and footage.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

You guys crack me up.

Kudos for all the effort with the gifs and footage.

Cheers

 

[Physiocrat]

As a complete aside on the heading issue. I can't remember if it was for a Euros or World Cup but I backed taking an aged Becks and Andy Carroll just for the sub options. You know what's coming, but can you stop it?

 

[Himannv]

Physiocrat > Sven

 

[Gio]

As a complete aside on the heading issue. I can't remember if it was for a Euros or World Cup but I backed taking an aged Becks and Andy Carroll just for the sub options. You know what's coming, but can you stop it?

Reminds me of when Hodgson brought on Carroll against Italy in 2012. He won and flicked on every long ball, so the cunning Italian defenders just let him do it and got bodies behind to deal with the flick-on, which they swept up almost every time. I think once though England almost bundled in the winner through the chaos he generated.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Good game and well argued @GodShaveTheQueen

Good luck in the final!

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Good game @Joga Bonito @Theon

Definitely a tough but fun debate. Cheers.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Good game and well argued @GodShaveTheQueen

Good luck in the final!

thought we were good....

 

[Joga Bonito]

thought we were good....