The Windrush Generation scandal - BBC play tells the story - "Sitting in Limbo"

[jojojo]

I nearly put this in the racism thread, but it deserves a thread of its own. To give a bit of basic background, post-war Britain needed labour, and it looked to its colonies to provide it by encouraging immigration, with an assumption that those who moved could choose to make their lives in the UK. Through the 50s and 60s that continued, until the rules changed in the 70s.

From the BBC

Under the 1971 Immigration Act, all Commonwealth citizens already living in the UK were given indefinite leave to remain - but the right to free movement between Commonwealth nations was ended from that date onwards.

However, the Home Office did not keep a record of those granted leave to remain or issue any paperwork confirming it, meaning it is difficult for the individuals to now prove they are in the UK legally.

The group with the toughest job of proving their status seem to be those who arrived as kids who travelled on their parent's passports coming from Jamaica and other Carribean countries. If they haven't applied for British passports then they may never received any formal document that says they have the right to live permanently in the UK.

People who've lived in the UK for 50 years, who've worked legally in the UK for decades, and brought up families here are being asked to prove that they have the right to stay.

Does it matter? Well, without that proof, some are already being told that they are living here illegally, and in some cases it's gone as far as deportation to a Jamaica where they have no real roots and no history. Eligibility to NHS treatment is being revoked along with other benefits. People are losing jobs over it. The numbers potentially affected could be in the tens of thousands.

The government itself says that's not supposed to be how the law is used, yet it is.

The Caribbean heads of government have asked May for a meeting, but nothing's been offered beyond vague assurances so far. Assurances that won't reassure anyone who's already spent months or even a couple of years trying to prove their legal status, or the many more who haven't realised yet that they've got something to prove.

The guidance acknowledges that problems are only now beginning to arise because of newly tightened immigration rules, and states: “Recent changes to the law mean that if you wish to work, rent property or have access to benefits and services in the UK then you will need documents to demonstrate your right to be in the UK. The government believes this is a proportionate measure to maintain effective immigration control.”

It adds: “We recognise that this is causing problems for some individuals who have lost documents over the long period of time they have been in the UK … No one with the right to be here will be required to leave.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...bbean-request-to-discuss-children-of-windrush

 

[Kentonio]

Shocking that the government don't give a single feck about these people.

 

[Oscie]

Shocking that the government don't give a single feck about these people.

I don't think it's shocking, it's in-keeping with the general disdain, lack of compassion, lack understanding and incompetence with which this government has always operated.

 

[Kentonio]

I don't think it's shocking, it's in-keeping with the general disdain, lack of compassion, lack understanding and incompetence with which this government has always operated.

Yeah, I probably chose the wrong word there. Anyone surprised about this government being cnuts to minorities has probably been sleeping under a rock for the last 10 years.

 

[Oscie]

Yeah, I probably chose the wrong word there. Anyone surprised about this government being cnuts to minorities has probably been sleeping under a rock for the last 10 years.

They don't give a feck about consequence so long as they can be seen to deliver. Same with Brexit, feck how badly we're all going to suffer, as long as they deliver it. Been obsessed with immigration in the "tens of thousands" ever since spoon face made that twattish pledge off the cuff in a speech once.

 

[Adisa]

We are a bunch of cnuts governed by a bunch of cnuts.
Will shock you but a significant percentage of this country will agree with the government.

 

[villain]

We are a bunch of cnuts governed by a bunch of cnuts.
Will shock you but a significant percentage of this country will agree with the government.

I think that in order to agree with a decision you have to care about the decision that's being made.

A significant percentage of this country don't care about this, because it won't affect them, and that's worse (imo)

 

[Adisa]

I think that in order to agree with a decision you have to care about the decision that's being made.

A significant percentage of this country don't care about this, because it won't affect them, and that's worse (imo)

I think a significant portion agree and another significant portion don't care.
It's the situation that caused the Brexit vote.
A lot of people are willfully ignorant of what their government does.

 

[Jippy]

It seems to stem back to a lack of records of who actually came into the country, but hopefully the attention it is now getting will put pressure on the government to sort. Kind of hope that they will have British birth certificates and education records and that will be enough. It's very hard to trust this government on anything though.

EDIT: Seems to be more people who moved over as kids.

 

[villain]

I think a significant portion agree and another significant portion don't care.
It's the situation that caused the Brexit vote.
A lot of people are willfully ignorant of what their government does.

That's a good point, I just think they're aware because I think we're in an age where they can't help but be aware of what the government does - they just don't care because it won't affect them.

The attitude towards immigration in this country needs serious discussion, given it's past.

 

[Green_Red]

Is there an actual number of people that have been deported or is it just "potentially tens of thousands".

 

[Pexbo]

Is there an actual number of people that have been deported or is it just "potentially tens of thousands".

Good luck getting an actual figure. It’s not like they’re going to record each on as “probably here legally but they can’t prove it”.

It’ll just be down as an illegal immigrant statistic.

 

[utdalltheway]

Crazy that these people are being denied rights.
Also crazy that they’ve never had a British passport. Does that mean they’ve been carrying one from the old country or they’ve never travelled?

 

[villain]

Is there an actual number of people that have been deported or is it just "potentially tens of thousands".

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It's been going on for months, but has only gotten recent media attention. I'm not sure if there's an official number yet - but there are those who have been deported already, which is shameful enough.

 

[oates]

The Home Office seem amazingly good at losing documents, applications etc. Top class at being rubbish.

This whole situation is a national disgrace, Theresa May shames us all by ignoring the subject and / or sitting on her hands.

 

[oates]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...aribbean-representatives-windrush-immigration

I think my post may have swung it.

 

[Smores]

The Home Office seem amazingly good at losing documents, applications etc. Top class at being rubbish.

This whole situation is a national disgrace, Theresa May shames us all by ignoring the subject and / or sitting on her hands.

I think the current ruthlessness of the home office is just a legacy of when it was run by May herself.

There's no interest n helping people unless it causes a PR issue.

 

[Jippy]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...aribbean-representatives-windrush-immigration

I think my post may have swung it.

Argh, that's something, but I'm having to rewrite my comment piece now.

 

[Dobba]

Woman who was racist whilst Home Secretary remains racist when promoted to Prime Minister. What a shocker.

 

[oates]

Argh, that's something, but I'm having to rewrite my comment piece now.

Make sure you give me a mention. Instrumental in pressuring PM. Something like that.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Me too. I am Oates' muse.

 

[jojojo]

Crazy that these people are being denied rights.
Also crazy that they’ve never had a British passport. Does that mean they’ve been carrying one from the old country or they’ve never travelled?

It's a complicated business because some of it comes down to the fact that the UK has never had the equivalent of an identity card. Certainly if you were born in the 50s or 60s in the UK, it's not hard to have one name/spelling on your birth certificate and different ones on bank account, driving licence, marriage licence and even on your passport. It's only in the past decade after a mismatch between passport/licence created a problem for me (when hiring a car) that I actually started trying to get my own paperwork aligned.

So if you ask someone to prove that they were already eligible to carry the equivalent of a British passport with guaranteed right of permanent abode in 1971, then a lot of people will struggle. Sometimes a "balance of probability" calculation is needed with commonsense about a person's history from the school swimming certificate to the PAYE tax record to the electoral register, to the mortgage or rent book. That's the bit that's failed and the system (for black applicants particularly) is almost one of guilty until proven innocent with people scrambling to find anything from a long dead parent's passport to a boat ticket kept as a souvenir and hoping that the next Home Office interviewer is willing to listen.

 

[oates]

Me too. I am Oates' muse.

I always find you musing mate!

 

[jojojo]

We are a bunch of cnuts governed by a bunch of cnuts.
Will shock you but a significant percentage of this country will agree with the government.

They will, but they'll be talking about some amorphous blob of immigrants who they imagine showed up a couple of years ago demanding a house, a car, NHS treatment and social security benefits.

When they get asked should it apply to a particular neighbour or colleague who went to school here, worked and paid taxes here and who's brought up kids of their own here, they know the law shouldn't be used against them.

It's only when a situation like this finally builds up a sufficient number of powerful back stories, including some where the unfairness is obvious and easy to see, that anything changes. In this instance that'll probably mean an end to letters that read like threats, proper (free) legal support for anyone affected and hopefully an assumption of innocence - so people don't lose jobs, homes, health service access etc while they're waiting for the paperwork to be done.

 

[Jippy]

Make sure you give me a mention. Instrumental in pressuring PM. Something like that.

Hmm, bit tight on wordcount, but highlighted how May could have used the CHOGM to show she does give it a shit and it's high on the agenda. Instead it looks like she's been railroaded into a U-turn. Great time to piss off more trading blocs!

 

[CassiusClaymore]

God I despise this government and this country in general right now.

Let's make it simple and deport everyone except the Queen then get us all to prove our Britishness by singing at least one full verse of the National Anthem, holding a 5 minute conversation with a stranger about the weather and tutting at someone speaking a different language.

Are they gonna refund taxes to all these people they've deported 'in error' ?

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Dobba]

Well that's me reassured.

 

[Grinner]

I always thought that the integration of immigrants from the West Indies was one of our more successful efforts. It took a long time and the people suffered a lot of indignity, but they are part of our culture now.

I guess I didn't expect such cuntishness to reoccur.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[711]

I know an old guy who can't get a passport. Born in the US to English parents, who moved back to England when he was a baby. He was unaware of any problem until, somewhat late in life, he wanted to go abroad for the first time with his mates. The UK said to get a passport he needed a birth certificate from the US. The US said they'd never heard of him, so that was it, no passport, no holiday.

 

[GloryHunter07]

David Lammy has got to be one of the best politicians in the country.

I am actually quite scared of what could happen to my partner post brexit.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[esmufc07]

David Lammy has got to be one of the best politicians in the country.

I am actually quite scared of what could happen to my partner post brexit.

Yeah, he's excellent.

 

[Dobba]

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If only we had a media prepared to point out this hypocrisy.

 

[Adisa]

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Like arsonists complaining about a fire.

 

[rcoobc]

The whole Tory government should resign in shame.

Anyone could see this was a potential problem a mile away. They had loads of high profile warnings.

Resign.

 

[rcoobc]

I know an old guy who can't get a passport. Born in the US to English parents, who moved back to England when he was a baby. He was unaware of any problem until, somewhat late in life, he wanted to go abroad for the first time with his mates. The UK said to get a passport he needed a birth certificate from the US. The US said they'd never heard of him, so that was it, no passport, no holiday.

I know an old guy (Hungarian/Brit) who lost his certificate of naturalization / certificate of right to stay (I forget).

How'd he lost it? Because he sent it away when applying for his first UK passport and they told him he didnt get to have it back.

Now whenever he renews his passport, they ask him for the certificate of naturalization, which he doesn't have, so he writes back to say that the reason he doesn't have it is because the home office kept it.

It's never been a problem though, I assume because he has had previous British passports, therefore they can clearly see the continual link.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

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She basically just said that her right hand doesn't know what her left hand is doing as her response. What a piss poor excuse for a serious issue. It's either you don't wanna know or you've placed yourself so deep into a bubble. Either way as that department's head, it's unacceptable that she couldn't answer the question of...how many?

 

[Sweet Square]

If only we had a media prepared to point out this hypocrisy.

Far more important thing to report on like Dec from Ant and Dec being fine for drink driving.