This new 'block the keeper's view' free kick routine
- Thread starter Beachryan
- Start date
Was it offside? Probably was.
Am I bothered by that? Not at all.
I know things are bad at the moment guys, but some of the comments in here ridiculing LVG and the routine as 'embarrassing', 'shouldn't be tried again' etc. are ridiculous. We got a goal from it and won the game.
Manchester Derby, last minute, 0-0. We do the same routine and win the game. How many of you would be in here then having a moan?
Am I bothered by that? Not at all.
I know things are bad at the moment guys, but some of the comments in here ridiculing LVG and the routine as 'embarrassing', 'shouldn't be tried again' etc. are ridiculous. We got a goal from it and won the game.
Manchester Derby, last minute, 0-0. We do the same routine and win the game. How many of you would be in here then having a moan?
It's not offside because they can't play the ball and it's not a cross, the fact that they distract the goalkeeper is irrelevant because they are not on the ball trajectory and they don't obstruct is view, the wall does.
They obstruct the 'keeper's view of the wall!
Considering LvG said we stole the routine from Midgetland and he asked the refs then if it was OK and they said yes, we should accept it as a good piece of management.
That's the old version of the law. The new version removed "making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent."
The current version is "clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movement or challenging an opponent for the ball."
Ah, I didn't know that. Someone needs to tell LVG about the mooning strategy, then.
And the key is the clearly, since there is a wall hiding the ball, we can't blame our players.
'If we cheat will you turn a blind eye, ref?'
'Aaaah, go on then.'
If only LVG had worked out that managing Manchester United was that easy a bit sooner.
'Aaaah, go on then.'
If only LVG had worked out that managing Manchester United was that easy a bit sooner.
I still didnt understand how they are obstructing keeper's view? They were beyond the wall, all in offside position and they just ran away from the ball. I can what they would have done if they were standing along with the wall..
See if this helps
UTD left slightly for total accuracy
UTD left slightly for total accuracy
I hope we have a phase 2 of the set peice plays.
If we do it again, the keeper will obviously need to be wise to watch the ball and not get distracted by the players. In this case, we should figure a way of actually using one of the obstructing players instead of just shooting like is expected.
If we do it again, the keeper will obviously need to be wise to watch the ball and not get distracted by the players. In this case, we should figure a way of actually using one of the obstructing players instead of just shooting like is expected.
Can we have a video of the goal. It's was he keepers own wall blocking his view not ours?
I think there might actually be a key factor as to why it's not deemed as obstructing the keepers view:
In a dead ball situation, it's up to the keeper to take up a position where he can clearly see the ball. The referee could see that the keeper had taken up a position where he was watching the ball. Then, before the ball was kicked, our players were running even further away from the goalkeepers line of sight. They weren't in his field of view, nor were they making any attempt to get in his field of view or making any gesture to distract him as they had their back to him and were running away from him.
The only argument you could make is that by definition, the whole act of being there and doing what they did is itself an act designed to distract the keeper therefore it could be deemed as a gesture designed to distract the keeper.
In a dead ball situation, it's up to the keeper to take up a position where he can clearly see the ball. The referee could see that the keeper had taken up a position where he was watching the ball. Then, before the ball was kicked, our players were running even further away from the goalkeepers line of sight. They weren't in his field of view, nor were they making any attempt to get in his field of view or making any gesture to distract him as they had their back to him and were running away from him.
The only argument you could make is that by definition, the whole act of being there and doing what they did is itself an act designed to distract the keeper therefore it could be deemed as a gesture designed to distract the keeper.
Erm... how is us scoring a goal stupid?
Is it because we timed it a bit wrong and it was offside? If so, thats the linesman's stupidity... not our own.
If we had timed it right and nobody was offside, would it still be stupid?
Is it because we timed it a bit wrong and it was offside? If so, thats the linesman's stupidity... not our own.
If we had timed it right and nobody was offside, would it still be stupid?
No it's because the idea came from midgetland, which is like, SO embarrassing.
My superb illustration works perfectly if you imagine the ball at bottom left of the 'L' and goalie at top right of the 'K'
As our wall moves out the GK view changes, he can see the ball again for a split-second before Mata kicks it into the net.
As our wall moves out the GK view changes, he can see the ball again for a split-second before Mata kicks it into the net.
Yes
FWIW, I reckon it also helps the taker with the shape of his shot.
Memphis attempt the first time was going in as well until Martial made a great block.
I thought you were joking... then I read the thread back!
I guess that does make sense though...I mean, remember that corner kick routine we tried against Chelsea? I don't know about you, but I couldn't show my face in public for weeks after that...
I know man, I was so embarrassed.
Well feck you've got the same ability as Morgan Freeman. I now see your name and read your post in your voice.
I'm happy we tried something new and it worked, don't understand why some fans seem annoyed? We scored, that's all that matters.
Will be interesting to see if the refs allow it if we score again.
Will be interesting to see if the refs allow it if we score again.
I actually think that free kick would have gone in regardless of the three amigo's.
It was clearly not offside, given where the keeper was and the path of the ball. But I understand why there would be confusion on this point. Props to the officiating crew for getting it right, as they could have very easily gotten wrong. Brad Friedl kept banging on after the game that it was offside, an indication as to how much confusion there is about what "interference" really is.
My complaint is that it's a clownish tactic by a club of United's stature against a club like Shrewbury. I guess I can't complain too much as we were desperate for a win but it's a sad commentary on the state of United that we would resort to such buffoonery.
My complaint is that it's a clownish tactic by a club of United's stature against a club like Shrewbury. I guess I can't complain too much as we were desperate for a win but it's a sad commentary on the state of United that we would resort to such buffoonery.
If I'm not mistaken, it's only offside when the player(s) are obstructing/interfering with play at the time the ball leaves the foot of the striker. But I had a look at the Fk a couple times. As Mata strikes it, the three offside players who were obstructing with the view up until then, did move forward and away a little towards the right. So Technically (it's all about technicality I guess), it can't be judged offside since the keeper had as good a view of the what's infront of him at that moment. Their presence there obviously tricked the keeper into thinking that the ball would come to his near side. That's on the keeper though.
And I don't see what the fuss is about by using Midgetland's ideas. The most innovative FK, corner routines, celebrations have all come from the lower leagues. They don't have the quality to execute it to perfection, we do. Can't believe a thread has even been created on this. I actually opened it thinking the OP was praising the routine. But God, anything to beat the old man with eh!
And I don't see what the fuss is about by using Midgetland's ideas. The most innovative FK, corner routines, celebrations have all come from the lower leagues. They don't have the quality to execute it to perfection, we do. Can't believe a thread has even been created on this. I actually opened it thinking the OP was praising the routine. But God, anything to beat the old man with eh!
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If if works it works.
Gaming the system, I don't really like it and it strikes me a little as lacking in sportsmanship but the current offside laws leave the door ajar for such things. The fuss reminds me a bit of the Giggs free-kick against Lille which caused a debate and nearly led to Lille walking off.
I think the keeper was distracted by the movement of the players but it would be tough to justify them having directly interfered with the keeper. The keepers job is to stop the ball and they did nothing to prevent him from doing so, the movement likely confused him but the players can't be held accountable for that as they made no attempt to alter the path of the ball or the ability of the keeper to get to the ball.
I think the keeper was distracted by the movement of the players but it would be tough to justify them having directly interfered with the keeper. The keepers job is to stop the ball and they did nothing to prevent him from doing so, the movement likely confused him but the players can't be held accountable for that as they made no attempt to alter the path of the ball or the ability of the keeper to get to the ball.
I can't believe how much time BT spent analysing it last night and I can't quite believe how conflicting the views are on here.
For what it's worth, I don't think our players were necessarily running away from the 'keeper to stay onside. I think the plan was always to sprint away as Mata was about to strike the ball, to create lots of movement and distracting stuff going on.
By the way, has anyone posted a gif or similar of the Midgetland players doing it last week?
For what it's worth, I don't think our players were necessarily running away from the 'keeper to stay onside. I think the plan was always to sprint away as Mata was about to strike the ball, to create lots of movement and distracting stuff going on.
By the way, has anyone posted a gif or similar of the Midgetland players doing it last week?
Remember the quick corner we tried once? A player (possible Giggs, Becks, etc - can't recall) took the corner by casually tapping the ball to a teammate, making out that he was handing over responsibilities for the corner. However, the receiving player then took the ball and played on. Can't recall if we actually scored from it or not but the ref stopped play and ordered a retake.
EDIT: Here you are - I loved this:
Because LVG!
It is pretty clear, if they obstruct his view they're interfering. It most likely was offside from what I can tell but either the ref didn't feel like they were obstructing his view or he relied on his assistant to give him a flag which never came.
I'm not embarrassed that we used such a trick against Shrewsbury, or took it from the wee Danes, as much as the sheer embarrassment of putting the ball in the net and giving away possession. Should have chipped it back to Romero, clearly.
Best thing about it was we scored when we retook the corner anyway.
They can perfect this free kick. The free kick taker should make a gesture just before he start to make his run up thus allowing the players to get onside. Should work in theory
How stupid would we look if our free kick fly's into the top corner but this time the officials see the offside?
You already have a good chance with a free kick in a dangerous area, I think it would be retarded to intentionally place players offside in the scenario you outlined above. Not worth the risk at all.
If they are in an onside position when the ball is struck, they might as well have just been in that position in the first place.
It is the confusion it causes for the opposition. If you watch other types of free kicks around the box, attackers stand in offside positions and then move onside at the time the kick is taken. The issue against Shrewsbury is they timed it wrong and we're still offside so it opens the question to were they interferring.
It's from the Anderson book of distractions, including a well placed packet of crisps
Can't believe some are slating Van Gaal for this. 
This just in: free kick routines are embarrassing.
This just in: free kick routines are embarrassing.