Three Leagues Draft - Grand Finale

[Moby]

Welcome to the final of the three leagues draft.
Please remember that players should only be judged by their performances in their assigned leagues for this draft (not career peak)

TEAM ENIGMA_87

TEAM GIO

​

 

[Moby]

Team Enigma_87/Snow​

Our team keeps the formation and shape in a 4-4-2 diamond or lopsided 3-5-2(transitioning into 4-3-3), depending on whether we have the ball or not.

Goalkeeper: A topic that we've beaten to death in the last couple of games so we have VDS against Chilavert, both legends of the game and one of the best keepers in the last 20 years. Of course both of them are not to their maximum level here. Both spent 2 seasons at their respective clubs and around the same amount of games and both were not at their peak at the time. While VdS stay was hugely controversial he managed to keep only 47 goals conceded during that time while Chilavert managed 52 goals conceded in his single second season at Zaragoza. I don't think the GK will make a difference here however as unarguably both were in similar shape of form during their respective stays in the leagues they represent.

Defence: We have a shift in the LB department with Alaba coming in for Marcelo manning that left flank. Having the ability to play in every position on the field(and he probably has even at his tender age), in any system and still give you stellar performances probably defines Alaba as the most modern footballer in the world. Alaba has the ability to read the game very well, excellent in one-on-one situations and is a solid tackler. Alaba knows when to make the tackle and when to just press, a quality that is rare. He has excellent passing capabilities, an incredible shot on him and is great at set pieces. His energy and pace often sees him beat players seamlessly. In both attaching and defending domains of the game, his intelligence is often displayed if one closely watches his positional sense. Alaba is an excellent match against Littbarski due to those qualities - extremely agile, tactically astute and of course - solid tackler who knows when to stand and when to go into it.
On the right flank Marcos Evangelista de Moraes(or simply put Cafu) is rightly known as one of the greatest defenders to have graced the game, making the right-back spot his own, both domestically and for Brazil. At his peak Cafu was phenomenon in the stamina department, probably the best pair of lungs in the game. That and his explosive movement and acceleration could let him man the whole flank for himself, while regaining position extremely quick. Cafu up against Nedved is nothing new that we haven't seen before and we trust him to do the job again like in the old times :
Our CB pair starts with Lucio who at his time at Germany amassed 3 Best defenders awards by Kicker (2 WC seasons), along with 4 best central defender awards (1 WC season as well), strong into tackle and in the air with excellent ball control who can start our attack and combine with Hierro as well in front of him. Lucio physical presence, agility, positional sense and heading ability makes him pretty good match for Ibra or Littbarski if he cuts inside. His partner Helmer is one of the best defenders in BuLi during his time at both Dortmund and Bayern winning 3 of them in the heart of Bayern's defence while coming awfully short at Dortmund the year he moved to Bayern(on level points with champions Stuttgart). Along the way Helmer picked 4 personal accolades being the best libero according to Kicker in 1990 and best man marker in 95,96,97.

Pivot: Our new addition is Fernando Hierro, arguably the top choice in linking up the defence and attack and also having the ability to drop back to cover space. We all know that Ibra drops deeper to receive the ball, Hierro will be watching for that space if Ibra decides to attack it or if Ballack pushes up. Hierro will also link our defence with attack as he has excellent ball control and can distribute play from deep. He also has excellent passing range so he can look for openings in opposition formation while we are on a counter.

Midfield: our midfield combo is composed of Davids in his best LCM position box to box, where he can impose himself physically, but also link up and with his excellent technique provide options for our forwards. Next to him is Luka Modric whose playmaking skills will be of essence of us in the build up and also look for openings centrally and also combine with Cafu on the right. Modric tactic discipline and also effectiveness in both phases will be much needed in this game because we're up against no mugs in the central midfield. Up forward we have Kaka spearheading our midfield with his explosive pace, skills, and balance he will raid the opposition midfield and defence to create but also score by himself.

Attack: Our attack is Villa/Sheva combo that compliment each other with their movement, excellent finishing abilities but also - technique, pace and most of all the ability to score from everywhere. Villa has a pretty good record against Puyol's Barca and himself as well netting 5 goals in his first 6 games against them at Valencia. Our attack will receive plenty of support from Kaka as well and his proven partnership with Sheva will give us a little bit of extra edge there.
(apologies for the crap music- all videos experienced better muted)

Why we will win?
We're in the finals so it's hard to find loopholes in both teams, I can only see having a go at the GK department but having in mind both GK careers and as already said their level during their respective times I think it's fair to say we have a level field there.

In regards to Gio's team - it's like always - well build and constructed side that doesn't have obvious weaknesses so I expect to have a great match up ahead.

Our advantages:
Kaka vs Deschamps: not a mismatch by any means, but I expect Kaka to give us a bit of extra edge and get the better of Deschamps especially on counter where we can exploit his pace and trickery when he's 1vs1 against him. His athleticism and sheer skill can help us create advantage near the box and with our mobile front line we can exploit it scoring the decisive goal.

Hierro: unquestionably excellent addition to our side apart from his defensive contribution and the ability to cover for both Ibra and Ballack in that space he can also provide us with extra playmaking option from deep which is an advantage over Deschamps and his similar role in the opposition team, while giving us some extra options from deep.

Attack: IMO we have the edge here with our more clinical attack with well oiled Kaka/Sheva partnership with also our wide options in Alaba/Cafu.

Creativity: I think here we can claim that we have a lot of options in every line - our full backs provide option on the wings, Lucio in our CB pair is excellent on the ball, Hierro adds more playmaking options from deep having in mind he'll have extra space with no #10 in Gio's side which will also take from the load of Modric who is our main creative force in CM, with also Kaka threading and running into channels and our both forwards are creative individuals as well.

 

[Moby]

Team Gio​

Our 4-3-3 marries defensive strength with a creative and swashbuckling attack. The central defensive axis is rock solid and overflows with leadership in Oscar Ruggeri and Carles Puyol. Behind them is Jose Luis Chilavert whose shot-stopping ability, smoothness on the ball, and sweeper-keeping complement the pair in front of him. The axis is flanked by Stefan Turbo Reuter on the right, a rapid and tidy defender but also a relentless overlapper, and Puyol's team-mate Eric Abidal who was a quick and physically imposing left-back and offers extra central support to square up to Enigma and MJJ's formidable attack.

The powerful and creative midfield is anchored by serial winner Didier Deschamps in the same effective way he provided the platform for Juventus and France's dominance through the second half of the 1990s. On his right with box-to-box duties is Michael Ballack who was outstanding at getting on the end of things but equally was a formidable and intelligent presence in the heart of midfield. Serie A Juan Sebastian Veron was a hell of a player, regularly overshadowing many of the other great playmakers of the late 1990s, and his light always burned brightest when partnered with solid workaholics (for Deschamps see Simeone or Dino Baggio) who were happy to let him get on showcasing his passing range and vision.

Veron renews a successful club partnership with Pavel Nedved. He will peg Cafu back but will equally have the freedom and inclination to roam and hunt for shooting opportunities in front of the opposition defence linking up with former club colleague Ibra. On the right is the greatest German winger of all time in Pierre Littbarski whose magical dribbling, nimbleness and invention will present a challenge to David Alaba. Together that wing partnership will stretch the defence, present a variety of attacking threats and work back in behind the ball when required. The hub of the attack is Zlatan Ibrahimovic, the standout line-leader in the pool, who will relish the space, nearby work rate and service he'll get here.

WHY WE WILL WIN:

• Defend narrow against a strong but narrow attack. In the absence of wide attacking threats, Abidal and Reuter will be instructed to tuck in without the ball. Abidal does this naturally in any case and Reuter has excellent defensive qualities to offer that support. Together their pace and defensive instinct should shut out space for the opposition forwards, particularly given the likelihood of Villa peeling left and Shevchenko's capacity to work across the line. The defensive unit will be very compact and this will play to the strengths of Puyol and Ruggeri. In front of them Deschamps won it all by typically shutting out the opposition's best player and here has the right pragmatic and defensively ruthless mix of attributes required to keep tabs on Kaka.
• Attack wide. With the two best wide attackers/midfielders in the pool, Nedved and Littbarski will seriously stretch the opposition. That will create space, cut-backs and crosses for the cavalry: Ibrahimovic, Ballack and the other winger to attack.
• Shots on goal. It may be a fairly basic tactic but given Van der Sar's rather patchy form here we will look to get shots on goal to potentially expose an error. The tactics above will help to create shooting opportunities by opening space on the counter and space in front of the back four to unleash the threat of Nedved, Ballack, Littbarski, Ibrahimovic and Veron from range.

Otherwise I'd suggest we're fairly evenly matched. The midfield will be a tight affair. Veron and Davids had some great battles domestically and internationally in the late 1990s with neither player ever really holding the upper hand. I'm happy to play to our strengths by keeping it compact, squeezing the space and hitting the opposition on the break.

 

[Moby]

@Rado_N can you make a poll for us as always?

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?
Team Enigma_87-Snow
Team Gio

Cheers!

24 hours
visible votes
can change vote

 

[Moby]

@Enigma_87 @Snow @Gio Good luck lads.

 

[Gio]

Cheers, all the best @Enigma_87 and @Snow

 

[Rado_N]

Poll added.

 

[Enigma_87]

All the best
@Gio excellent work in building the team as always

 

[Enigma_87]

For the GK topic I'd like to address it right away as probably it will be touched on the way. Now for VdS I think a lot has been commented but not so much about Chilavert. Naturally he's excellent goalkeeper one of the best in SA, but his stint in the late 80's in Zaragoza was far from convincing and was as short as VdS one being there for only 2 full seasons.

When it goes to shots from distance it's something that was largely a concern from Chillaver, as well as going for free kicks and penalties and also some questionable decisions in the box both at crosses and also rushing forward and sideways making penos:

^^^just a small compilation of his time at Zaragoza

 

[Gio]

I'm not sure there is any hard evidence to suggest Chilavert was poor at Zaragoza. On the contrary, all I've read, suggests he did well there. I can see why you are attempting to bring him down to Edwin's performance level here, but there is little to no evidence to indicate that Chilavert was below par in Spain.

 

[Moby]

Thought Puyol would be on the right myself, Gio. Though his pace will be useful against Sheva here.

 

[Gio]

Thought Puyol would be on the right myself, Gio. Though his pace will be useful against Sheva here.

Well it was six and half a dozen. Ruggeri's experienced as the RCB in a back three, Puyol has some experience at RB. There is an advantage with the synergy Abidal and Puyol will have operating next to each other. And equally he matches up to Shevchenko pretty well.

 

[Enigma_87]

I'm not sure there is any hard evidence to suggest Chilavert was poor at Zaragoza. On the contrary, all I've read, suggests he did well there. I can see why you are attempting to bring him down to Edwin's performance level here, but there is little to no evidence to indicate that Chilavert was below par in Spain.

Well I've already put some highlights and that's from just couple of games. IMO they are pretty much alike. I've did my research as well and he docked a lot of goals from distance, wasn't all that convincing rushing in, had the tendency with his sweeper keeper attitude to over complicate things and also was lobbed from half way line due to taking peno as well.

Both stints were pretty much comparable - 2 full seasons, first better than other and then sold in the 3rd one. I don't think you have any advantage there to be honest. Especially in his second one with Zaragoza plummeting in the table and him conceding 52 goals in a single season.

 

[Gio]

Well I've already put some highlights and that's from just couple of games. IMO they are pretty much alike. I've did my research as well and he docked a lot of goals from distance, wasn't all that convincing rushing in, had the tendency with his sweeper keeper attitude to over complicate things and also was lobbed from half way line due to taking peno as well.

Both stints were pretty much comparable - 2 full seasons, first better than other and then sold in the 3rd one. I don't think you have any advantage there to be honest. Especially in his second one with Zaragoza plummeting in the table and him conceding 52 goals in a single season.

If those GIFs are all you have on Chilavert's alleged poor form from 1988-1991, then it's a weak case. I've read a few places now that he did fine. For example:

His first two seasons with the club were of high level. He played almost all matches of the whole hand leaving a good impression, some stops of anthology and a character - for better and for worse - hard to forget. He was one of the first porteros-libero in Spanish football.

Not the best translation, but the message is pretty clear: the boy did good.

 

[Gio]

While VdS stay was hugely controversial he managed to keep only 47 goals conceded during that time while Chilavert managed 52 goals conceded in his single second season at Zaragoza.​

This is a pretty flimsy line of reasoning as well to be honest. Van der Sar had Montero, Ferrara, Zambrotta and midfield anchors like Davids, Conte and Tacchinardi in front of him. All household names. In contrast, Chilavert had a bunch of Spaniards even La Liga nerds like myself struggle to recognise.​

 

[Enigma_87]

If those GIFs are all you have on Chilavert's alleged poor form from 1988-1991, then it's a weak case. I've read a few places now that he did fine. For example:

actually it's based on only 4-5 games alone which had highlights in youtube. Some are in the same game as well. Obviously not that many highlights but even from the few ones he was shaky.

Not the best translation, but the message is pretty clear: the boy did good.

He played almost all matches of the whole hand leaving a good impression, some stops of anthology and a character - for better and for worse - hard to forget. He was one of the first porteros-libero in Spanish football.

that doesn't sound reassuring at all to be honest.

He was pretty far from his best years as well you have to agree IMO - he received his first two caps for Paraguay in 1989, didn't play for his national side in 1990 and played 6 in 1991 - the year he left. He was far from his best years still to come.

 

[Enigma_87]

This is a pretty flimsy line of reasoning as well to be honest. Van der Sar had Montero, Ferrara, Zambrotta and midfield anchors like Davids, Conte and Tacchinardi in front of him. All household names. In contrast, Chilavert had a bunch of Spaniards even La Liga nerds like myself struggle to recognise.​

And they were there the year before as well, but Juve conceded almost double the amount with VdS in the team.

 

[Gio]

that doesn't sound reassuring at all to be honest.

It's a comment on his character. He was a big and aggressive personality.

 

[Gio]

He was pretty far from his best years as well you have to agree IMO - he received his first two caps for Paraguay in 1989, didn't play for his national side in 1990 and played 6 in 1991 - the year he left. He was far from his best years still to come.

Do you know how many international games Paraguay played in 1990? Zero.

Poor Chilavert, even getting criticised for failing to be picked for games that never happened!

 

[Enigma_87]

It's a comment on his character. He was a big and aggressive personality.

Chilavert was under pressure as well. The reason why it was not underlined so far in the draft IMO is because it was 25 years ago and La Liga at that time didn't have much highlight, especially compared to Seria A in the 90's. Chilavert was far off his peak and he had the same issues like VdS was pointed out to have - not enough experience and prone to some mistakes. All in all as I said on that account, VdS had couple misjudgements as was pointed out but so can be said about Chilavert from the gifs above and I'm sure if we have a proper look we'll have many of those examples as well.

 

[Enigma_87]

Do you know how many international games Paraguay played in 1990? Zero.

Poor Chilavert, even getting criticised for failing to be picked for games that never happened!

Not criticizing him at all for not participating(or saying he was second choice or something), just pointing out that he had 2 games for the national team prior to 1991. It has more to do with his experience at that level and time.

 

[Gio]

Chilavert was under pressure as well. The reason why it was not underlined so far in the draft IMO is because it was 25 years ago and La Liga at that time didn't have much highlight, especially compared to Seria A in the 90's. Chilavert was far off his peak and he had the same issues like VdS was pointed out to have - not enough experience and prone to some mistakes. All in all as I said on that account, VdS had couple misjudgements as was pointed out but so can be said about Chilavert from the gifs above and I'm sure if we have a proper look we'll have many of those examples as well.

Nah there's no evidence here. It's purely an assumption on the basis that Chilavert didn't become world famous until the mid-1990s - therefore he must have been a liability before then. Chilavert's fame was largely a result of the 70-yard goal for Velez and his burgeoning reputation as a goalscoring keeper. He certainly had the benefit of more experience in his 30s, but he became chubbier and less mobile from the late-1990s on. We know at Zaragoza he was a leaner and more agile specimen. Whether that had any impact on his goalkeeping performance is unclear to be honest. But it's probably a more robust assumption than he was a liability in Spain which apparently seems to be based on a couple of speculative GIFs from over 7000 minutes of football.

 

[Gio]

It's compellingly clear that Van der Sar was a liability though.

When Juventus signed him from Ajax in 1999, he was considered perhaps the world's best goalkeeper. Two years later, he wasn't. At Juve, for the only time in his career, he lost confidence and committed papere - keeper's errors. The Italians dubbed him Van der Gol, for 'goal', Juventus asked him to have his eyes tested. In 2001 they dumped him.

Even the man says so himself:

I accept that I didn't play very well in Italy for the two years. It was lower than my Ajax standard. I don't know why.

Equivalating that kind of shoddy form to Chilavert's impressive spell in Spain is misplaced, and by some distance too.

 

[Enigma_87]

Nah there's no evidence here. It's purely an assumption on the basis that Chilavert didn't become world famous until the mid-1990s - therefore he must have been a liability before then. Chilavert's fame was largely a result of the 70-yard goal for Velez and his burgeoning reputation as a goalscoring keeper. He certainly had the benefit of more experience in his 30s, but he became chubbier and less mobile from the late-1990s on. We know at Zaragoza he was a leaner and more agile specimen. Whether that had any impact on his goalkeeping performance is unclear to be honest. But it's probably a more robust assumption than he was a liability in Spain which apparently seems to be based on a couple of speculative GIFs from over 7000 minutes of football.

He received his first personal award in 1994 - that's 4 years away from his time at Zaragoza. If he was such an excellent keeper at the time why was he sold just after 8 games in his 3rd season?

Those gifs are not selection of 6-7 moments from 7000 minutes but from the first 4-5 highlight games on youtube during his time there. Some are from the same game as well. You can see some of the shots from distance are pretty saveable and he also rushed things and fouled the attacker in two of those occasions while misguiding a cross on another.

In 1988, whilst Chilavert played for Real Zaragoza, he stated that "the fans used to freak out" when he would come out with the ball at his feet and "scream at me to get back in goal. I've never stopped to think about what others are saying. I just rely on my abilities. Later on, I started to practice penalties and free kicks until they gave me the job for real".

off his wiki page. Not being experienced enough counts for easily capable of making a mistake as well.

If he was that great there then why did he move midseason?


BTW from the same source above that you pointed:

For the team worked as an extra man but for the fans, their attitudes, at a stage where you could still delay the ball to the goalkeeper, looked more like a suicide. In 1990-91 the situation changed. It had become international a year earlier before, in August 1989 and his character was beginning to hit the club. He returned to Argentina to begin the most successful stage career.

 

[Gio]

Chilavert was the first in a new breed of sweeper keepers. As the Kaiser Magazine put it, he was effectively an extra player in possession. Playing like that in the 1980s was of course going to raise a few eyebrows, but that's little different from Manuel Neuer's sweeping causing conservative-minded types to get all hot and bothered. If teams passed around the back in the 1980s in the way that they routinely do nowadays, the fans then would have lost the plot. Again it's no reflection on his performance level. What it means in this game is that we have someone who is great on the ball and alive to the through-ball. Sure once every season or two there might be a mistake in there from having that aggressive ball-playing approach from the back, but it's a small price to pay for the week in, week out benefits it brings.

 

[Enigma_87]

Chilavert was the first in a new breed of sweeper keepers. As the Kaiser Magazine put it, he was effectively an extra player in possession. Playing like that in the 1980s was of course going to raise a few eyebrows, but that's little different from Manuel Neuer's sweeping causing conservative-minded types to get all hot and bothered. If teams passed around the back in the 1980s in the way that they routinely do nowadays, the fans then would have lost the plot. Again it's no reflection on his performance level. What it means in this game is that we have someone who is great on the ball and alive to the through-ball. Sure once every season or two there might be a mistake in there from having that aggressive ball-playing approach from the back, but it's a small price to pay for the week in, week out benefits it brings.

Well I'm sure the same can be said for VdS which raised eyebrows and generated the hassle. He was brought in as one of the world best GK's which given his stature put the pressure on him and he made a mistake here and there.

Absolutely the same about Chilavert - being the pioneer in that area he was a liability in that sense as well if his tendency to sweep ahead of him doesn't work out and he had his fair share of conceding penos along the way. Sure there are positives and negatives but same can be said about VdS. I don't think you have advantage in that area considering how off his peak was Chilavert during his time at Zaragoza and the way he didn't settle at all in Europe. His best years came after he moved to Velez.

And as Kaiser magazine put it in the end of his Zaragoza stay - his character began to affect the club which led him change clubs and return to SA.

 

[Gio]

For sure Chilavert had a big personality and wasn't shy about expressing it. But sometimes that's the price to pay for that kind of influential presence, that kind of dominant personality that radiates enthusiasm for the players around him.

 

[Gio]

As for Van der Sar, it wasn't his style of play that raised eyebrows. It was the fact someone so steady and so consistent became so flaky and unreliable. Skizzo pretty much nailed it here.

In the last match, Aldo and The Stain brought up the elephant in the room, and it wasn't the first time someone had questioned it. Van Der Sar's time at Juventus was considered as, at best, a mixed bag. Supporters seem to think they didn't have a top keeper, and I think we can all agree that it wasn't the best version of Edwin.

That being said, Enigma and Snow have mentioned that his second season may have been a bit up and down, but he was consistent in his first season based on the amount of goals conceded. While it seems the basis for a good argument, we wanted to dig a little deeper to try and get a better idea of the whole picture.

That 1999/2000 season in Serie A, Juventus finished 2nd, losing on the last day of the season. While they did indeed have the least amount of goals conceded, there is much more to the story than it being because of Van Der Sar's brilliance.

Juventus that season also scored less than any other team in the top 8. That includes teams as varied as Lazio to Udinese. Basically put, their game involved playing a style which kept it tight at the back, through players like Ferrara, Montero, and midfield machines like Davids.

21 games that season Juventus scored a goal or less. That's with an attacking unit including Zidane, Del Piero, and Inzaghi.

The fact he conceded 20 goals isn't a reflection of how well he played, but a reflection of Juventus' style of play that season. Is it any surprise that in his second season, where he is widely recognized as being "unstable" and "inconsistent", Juventus scored almost 20 goals more! The fact their play became more open suddenly showed the lack of assurance they had at the back.

So with that in mind, let's look at some of his games...keeping in mind these are all from his first season, where he was allegedly quite good.


Here's Marcelo Salas ripping a shot outside the box for Lazio.

Spoiler

He also had a bit of a nightmare against Inter Milan in December of that first year. First of all he was lucky to stay on the field after this incident in which he takes out Zamorano

Spoiler

Although later on, he followed it up with this. Managed to make a mess of the tackle (which he somehow got away with) and was red carded for a handball outside the box (incorrectly)

Spoiler

And here is his game against Hellas Verona, a 2 goal defeat in which he was far from convincing in his performance. Starting off, he parries a shot from outside the box right to the onrushing attacker. Fortunately for VDS, the striker couldn't make it count.

Spoiler

The breakthrough did come not long after. Maybe not totally at fault, as it was a nice turn and finish, but no keeper wants to see themselves beaten at the near post.

Spoiler

Into the second half, and parrying a shot back to a striker. Takes a last ditch tackle to stop them conceding again.

Spoiler

And here's the second goal, again, looking a little suspect in how he was beaten.

Spoiler

And we already know how the second season went overall. Summed up again by a poster from a Juventus forum


Here's the Roma game, parrying a shot from outside the box right to the attacker...again.

Spoiler

So all in all, I think we can wrap this up with a quite from this list.

TL/DR

 

[Enigma_87]

For sure Chilavert had a big personality and wasn't shy about expressing it. But sometimes that's the price to pay for that kind of influential presence, that kind of dominant personality that radiates enthusiasm for the players around him.

Or puts additional pressure on the defence in front of him, not knowing what to expect.

As for Van der Sar, it wasn't his style of play that raised eyebrows. It was the fact someone so steady and so consistent became so flaky and unreliable. Skizzo pretty much nailed it here.

as I said same can be said for Chilavert and the gifs above posted about him show the same both in terms of his instinct to rush forward, dealing with crosses and shots from distance.

Again if he was that great and not a liability at Zaragoza why did he switch clubs in the beginning of his third season? All sources say that he just didn't settle there and was prone to mistakes. His best football and part of career came long after that spell.

 

[BBRBB]

Let's take the debate away from the keepers for a bit.

@Enigma_87 how are you going to provide width in attack?

@Gio Are you going to try and test Cafu or will Nedved mostly cut inside and Abidal stay back?

 

[Gio]

Or puts additional pressure on the defence in front of him, not knowing what to expect.

For sure. But let's not forget that Chilavert and Ruggeri played together at Velez Sarsfield so there is a proven connection there. It's always important that link between keeper and centre-half. And Puyol played ahead of Valdes - he'd probably find Chilavert quite conservative by comparison!

 

[Enigma_87]

For sure. But let's not forget that Chilavert and Ruggeri played together at Velez Sarsfield so there is a proven connection there. It's always important that link between keeper and centre-half. And Puyol played ahead of Valdes - he'd probably find Chilavert quite conservative by comparison!

Which is completely irrelevant given the nature of the draft.

Let's take the debate away from the keepers for a bit.

@Enigma_87 how are you going to provide width in attack?

Alaba and Cafu both are excellent getting forward. Villa can also run into channels and into the left like he does dragging the CB wide. Same can be said for Davids and Modric who can support the wings while Hierro will push forward when we have the ball into space given that he doesn't have #10 to mark and bring back the balance.

If Alaba and Cafu go forward naturally Nedved and Littbarski will also move back.

I think in Gio's side Abidal will cut more inside or generally stay back most of the time.

^^ some Alaba footage. That speed

and of course who can forget Cafu:

 

[Gio]

Let's take the debate away from the keepers for a bit.

@Enigma_87 how are you going to provide width in attack?

@Gio Are you going to try and test Cafu or will Nedved mostly cut inside and Abidal stay back?

We would obviously look for overlaps down the flanks. That's always going to be the case up against a diamond. For instance, if Abidal is in a position to move forward, then Reuter would tuck in to ensure pacy cover against the two strikers. Then Abidal would look to link with Nedved and Veron to isolate Cafu. Presumably Modric would come over but he wouldn't necessarily be the most suited man for that job.

And it's the same principle for the other flank. On the ball you'd look for Reuter to move forward and combine with Littbarski (again another real proven combo of sorts from the NT in 1990) with a view to isolating Alaba. Littbarski can be devastating in a one-on-one - but with further support it could be game-defining.

 

[Skizzo]

While I don't think the "proven combo" angle for a couple of @Gio's players will fly here, it doesn't take away from their ability and type of game they play. Reuter still overlaps. Ruggeri is still a hard bastard at the back.

As for the keepers, well, I'm sure it's obvious where I stand based on my quoted post above as for the comparison, I don't quite see it as quite as equal as @Enigma_87 says, but others might agree/disagree. Couldn't Gio just instruct Chilavert not to play around with the ball as much? (For you @Aldo )

It's a tough one. Hierro would be great here, able to step forward as necessary. He also gives that midfield a better balance than it had in the last game.

On the flip side, Littbarski and Nedved, as mentioned, are two of the best available wide players here, and would be perfect in working back, but also keeping Alaba and Cafu honest and not bombing up and down all game. Without that ability to stretch the play, it's easier to manage that front three.

I'll check back later once this develops a bit more

 

[Enigma_87]

I think as noted in the OP Hierro's presence is really the key and what makes the difference over our last game @Skizzo as he not only brings the balance in midfield but also has the ability to help the back and also distribute the ball from deep and push up when in space. I think physio raised that in our last game so that addition alone brings a lot of upgrades to our formation and game in general.

On the keeper topic as I've said I see them pretty similar and Chilavert had pretty much the same issues(regardless of temperament or style) and didn't perform up to his best standards.

The inclusion of Alaba also means that we improve defensively on the LB position on Marcelo and is a much better match in a meet up that happened in the first round as well.

Apart from that Davids and Modric are capable of providing assistance on the flanks and we won't lose width(Hierro will push up as mentioned Gio doesn't have a #10 so he'll find himself at space to fill the gaps) to combine with Alaba and Cafu. On the right we also have Cafu as a bonus that has proven in the past to link up great with Kaka and Sheva and in that compilation above you can easily count at least 5-6 assists to either of them.

Alaba and Cafu pretty much can provide width of their own given they have in the past, especially Cafu, but also Villa can drift in wide to drag a CB out of position as well. Sheva and Villa are pretty much dangerous just outside the box as well as in it and if given even the little amount of space they can punish the back line.

IMO with Cafu and Alaba (Villa, Davids/Modric supporting) we have the needed width to operate in the diamond we have here. Cafu for example both at Roma, Brazil and Milan was traditionally the one man flank and has done pretty well in the past against Nedved too.

I really love our central players because Modric/Davids can support wide and Kaka spearheading with Hierro at the base is pretty much the best we could come up with from the pool.

 

[Moby]

Couldn't Gio just instruct Chilavert not to play around with the ball as much? (For you @Aldo )

 

[Physiocrat]

This is really close. Both sides have great players and are well balanced. Hierro is a massive upgrade on Gustavo for this system. I'll have to think on this more

 

[Gio]

While I don't think the "proven combo" angle for a couple of @Gio's players will fly here, it doesn't take away from their ability and type of game they play. Reuter still overlaps. Ruggeri is still a hard bastard at the back.

As for the keepers, well, I'm sure it's obvious where I stand based on my quoted post above as for the comparison, I don't quite see it as quite as equal as @Enigma_87 says, but others might agree/disagree. Couldn't Gio just instruct Chilavert not to play around with the ball as much? (For you @Aldo )

It's a tough one. Hierro would be great here, able to step forward as necessary. He also gives that midfield a better balance than it had in the last game.

On the flip side, Littbarski and Nedved, as mentioned, are two of the best available wide players here, and would be perfect in working back, but also keeping Alaba and Cafu honest and not bombing up and down all game. Without that ability to stretch the play, it's easier to manage that front three.

I'll check back later once this develops a bit more

The proven combo was more of an aside in response to the 'Chilavert surprising his defence' line. Obviously if we want to go large on the partnerships, we've got:

• Abidal and Puyol
• Chilavert and Ruggeri
• Nedved and Veron
• Nedved and Ibrahimovic
• Reuter and Littbarski

That's quite a lot of understanding of one another's games in there. And they're all meaningful partnerships where it would be important to be on the same wavelength.

 

[Snow]

The proven combo was more of an aside in response to the 'Chilavert surprising his defence' line. Obviously if we want to go large on the partnerships, we've got:

• Abidal and Puyol
• Chilavert and Ruggeri
• Nedved and Veron
• Nedved and Ibrahimovic
• Reuter and Littbarski

That's quite a lot of understanding of one another's games in there. And they're all meaningful partnerships where it would be important to be on the same wavelength.

Yes. Who doesn't remember when Ruggeri and Chilavert played together for Velez that one season. Such a proven partnership.

How is Littbarski and Reuter proven?

Abidal at left back and Puyol at CRB.

One of Zlatan's worst season's in his career was when he played with Nedved. One of his, I think it definitely was.

 

[Gio]

Yes. Who doesn't remember when Ruggeri and Chilavert played together for Velez that one season. Such a proven partnership.

I'm not really arsed about that one. But if you're pulling up this bollocks about Chilavert, then it needs to be placed into some sort of realistic context.

How is Littbarski and Reuter proven?

They won a World Cup together. Reuter as right wing back, Littbarski as a wide-roaming attacking midfielder.

Abidal at left back and Puyol at CRB.

They played six seasons together with Abidal largely playing in a back three unit to allow Alves the opportunity to push on.