Top 10 greatest players of all time

[Son]

How can you say he played for stacked sides and then use that as an argument against him when comparing to messi?..

Messi won everything with a far weaker Argentina though…

Pele won 2 world cups also he had zero to do with the middle one apart from playing cheerleader.

Messi got his country to two World Cup finals as the best footballer in the world legit. Brazil would have won the same with or without Pele and that’s a fact.

The Brazilian league back then was “strong” in some terms but in reality it just wasn’t a professional game in those days compared to now. It’s laughable to say it was.

His stats on paper look great but the guy wasn’t a genius like Messi and Maradona. Messi is in another stratosphere to Pele natural ability wise. It’s not even close.

 

[Sandikan]

Pele was never in the same league as Messi as a footballer.

Both Maradona and Messi did far more impressive things than Pele ever did in his career. He won all his trophies playing for stacked sides against inferior players and teams.

Whereas Messi was playing for some village pub side and San Marino esque nation?

 

[Sandikan]

Messi won everything with a far weaker Argentina though…

Pele won 2 world cups also he had zero to do with the middle one apart from playing cheerleader.

Messi got his country to two World Cup finals as the best footballer in the world legit. Brazil would have won the same with or without Pele and that’s a fact.

The Brazilian league back then was “strong” in some terms but in reality it just wasn’t a professional game in those days compared to now. It’s laughable to say it was.

His stats on paper look great but the guy wasn’t a genius like Messi and Maradona. Messi is in another stratosphere to Pele natural ability wise. It’s not even close.

Are you in the 20-30 sort of age range?
I can't believe anyone older would dismiss Pele with such outrageous ease.

He was the best player in an incredible side that was the strongest in the world in that era. That's quite some accolade.
This was in an era the best players could simply be kicked to bits and taken out, like Pele was in one world cup.

 

[Son]

Are you in the 20-30 sort of age range?
I can't believe anyone older would dismiss Pele with such outrageous ease.

He was the best player in an incredible side that was the strongest in the world in that era. That's quite some accolade.
This was in an era the best players could simply be kicked to bits and taken out, like Pele was in one world cup.

Garincha was brazils most talented player for a good while was he not? He played on the wing and further back so granted he didn’t get as many headlines but the guy almost single handedly won Brazil a World Cup on his own in 62.

I just don’t really rate Pele as high as some others. Granted I didn’t watch much of him compared to other older people either I’m sure.

 

[heraklion]

1. Messi
2. Maradona
3. Pele
4. Beckenbauer
5. Cruyff
6. Di Stefano
7. R9
8. Platini
9. Muller
10. CR7

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Garincha was brazils most talented player for a good while was he not? He played on the wing and further back so granted he didn’t get as many headlines but the guy almost single handedly won Brazil a World Cup on his own in 62.

I just don’t really rate Pele as high as some others. Granted I didn’t watch much of him compared to other older people either I’m sure.

Pele was by far the best player in the world in 1962 and dominated his first game. He got injured in his second game (completely out of his control). Brazil can't be so stacked and loaded and then Garrincha wins the World Cup on his own in 1962, it's a contradiction.

It would be like in 2014 if Messi got injured in the first game and then Aguero takes charge, scores 5-6 goals and Argentina won the final. Aguero, like Garrincha, was a very fine player. It could have happened. It wouldn't mean that Aguero was better than Messi.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

The fact that Cruyff is the only footballing legend that could be considered as both one of the 10 greatest players of all-time, and one of the 10 greatest managers of all-time, really stands out to me.

 

[Gehrman]

The fact that Cruyff is the only footballing legend that could be considered as both one of the 10 greatest players of all-time, and one of the 10 greatest managers of all-time, really stands out to me.

Zidane could be in that list. He makes a lot of people's top 10 players.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Not in order:
Pele
Maradona
Di Stefano
Messi
C. Ronaldo
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
Neuer
Ronaldo Da Lima
Zidane

 

[Krakenzero]

Messi won everything with a far weaker Argentina though…

Pele won 2 world cups also he had zero to do with the middle one apart from playing cheerleader.

Messi got his country to two World Cup finals as the best footballer in the world legit. Brazil would have won the same with or without Pele and that’s a fact.

The Brazilian league back then was “strong” in some terms but in reality it just wasn’t a professional game in those days compared to now. It’s laughable to say it was.

His stats on paper look great but the guy wasn’t a genius like Messi and Maradona. Messi is in another stratosphere to Pele natural ability wise. It’s not even close.

The good thing with these kind of takes is that it helps making friendly reminders of Pelé's genius:

• Pelé debuted oficially in 1957 with 16 years, and on his first season he became the tournament's top goal scorer. He then proceeded to defend that title for 8 consecutive seasons.
• The Campeonato Paulista had been played since 1902. Until 1957 when Pelé debuted, his team got the title a total of 3 times. Then during Pelé's 16 year period in Santos FC, he managed to win it 10 times. After that they won only 2 in the next 30 years.
• Of course, we consider the campeonato Paulista because when Pelé started playing there wasn't a unified brazilian championship. The first one was in 1959 and Santos was second to Bahía. Mainly because Pelé didn't play the final game (IIRC cause he was in military duty as he was 18 years old). They didn't participate in the next one (as Santos lost the Paulista final to Palmeiras), then proceeded to win the tournament 5 times in a row. This is the tournament where Didí, Garrincha, Vavá, Amarildo, Zagallo, Tostao, Gerson, Jairzinho and Rivelino were all playing in other teams.
• Even so, maybe the problem is that the league was too weak. So maybe we should compare it to the rest. Santos didn't get to play the first two editions of Copa Libertadores because only the brazilian champion (Bahía in 1960 and Palmeiras in 1961) were allowed to do so. When they won the Taca do Brasil in 1961, they got to participate and proceeded to win it two times in a row. Pelé only took place in one more Libertadores (1965, when he was the top scorer) and when he left the club, Santos had to wait 38 years for Neymar to lead them to the title again.
• As the Libertadores champion got to play with the European Cup champion in the intercontinental cup, we got to see Pelé 's playing against the best teams in Europe. First was Eusebio's Benfica, who lost 8-4 on agreggate with Pelé scoring 5 times in 2 games (note: he was 21 at that time). Then it was Gianni Rivera's AC Milan, in which he only took place in one match due to injury, scoring twice again. That's 7 in 3 games and 2 titles in a row again. Of course, Santos never won this again after Pelé left.
• Going into NT territory, Brazil was really good even without Pelé. Unfortunately, they only managed to get one title in 30 years before Pelé's arrival (the 1949 southamerican championship, while having home advantage) and after him leaving the squad they had to wait 19 years for another title and 24 for another world cup (both thanks to Romario). During his period in Brazil squad he managed to win 3 world cups, playing 14 matches and scoring 12 goals. He only played one southamerican championship and while he didn't win, he was the top scorer with 9 goals in 7 games.
• As for the "stratosphere" and "professionalism", I tend to recommend the 'Pelé did it first' videos on Youtube. I'm sure you'll appreciate them.

 

[devaneios]

The Brazilian league back then was “strong” in some terms but in reality it just wasn’t a professional game in those days compared to now. It’s laughable to say it was.

This argument is so dumb...

Why didn't tons of "Pelés" appear so? Only him was receiving modern training and tactical advices?

Brazil was the strongest NT, as you said, but no other player came close to what Pelé did here. Why?

 

[Redplane]

Not in order:
Pele
Maradona
Di Stefano
Messi
C. Ronaldo
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
Neuer
Ronaldo Da Lima
Zidane

One of those is not like the others...

 

[RedRonaldo]

Pele was never in the same league as Messi as a footballer.

Both Maradona and Messi did far more impressive things than Pele ever did in his career. He won all his trophies playing for stacked sides against inferior players and teams.

He had too many luxuries all through his career and wasn’t a genius like Messi or Maradona.

The fact he did arguably his greatest moments at 17 shows probably how poor the game was back then. In reality a 17 year old Pele was a million miles from a prime Maradona or Messi. They both would have destroyed him on a football pitch at any point skill wise and IQ wise.

Maradona especially didn’t have the luxury of taking on nothing sides most weeks either.

Have you ever watch Pele played during his prime though? I am not questioning your view here, but I didn’t watch that much of him to form such a strong opinion. What I do know is that most people who has witnessed football during 60s would say Pele was the best ever.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

One of those is not like the others...

Why can't Neuer be there? Makes sense to include a goalkeeper. Not many others to choose from.

 

[Red the Bear]

Messi=Maradona*
Pele
Cryuff
Di Stefano
Ronaldo
Beckenbauer
Charlton
Platini
Zico

Honorary mention: Yashin

*trying to be objective to the uttermost Messi probably has it tied down by now if not only for his sheer longevity that trumps Diego but I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Overall I feel it's a pretty solid list, you can probably spot my inclination toward pettite mastreos of the ball who's conduct was not much diffrent from say a houdini but merely in a different avenue than theatrical stage.

I also somewhat included their cultural impact on the world beyond football as well, so Charlton's sheer story perseverance and triumph gave him bump, almost every single player that I included has a whimsical tale of achievement to go with it whether it being Beckenbauer leading his nation to football glory helping to restore his nation's honor or di stefano's massive influence on creating football's most successful dynasty.

I can see some objections to my inclusion of zico but I am absolutely in love of his sheer talent and he had he not had the unfortunate fate of sharing the same era that he did with Diego I think he'd be much more highly regarded and his lack of success with the national team weighs heavily on his legacy. ( on a side not what a crazy era it was , each one of the footballing triumvirate of maradona/zico/plattini would be heads and shoulders above anyone playing today)

 

[Pat_Mustard]

That's a brilliant post @Krakenzero .

 

[devaneios]

I can see some objections to my inclusion of zico but I am absolutely in love of his sheer talent and he had he not had the unfortunate fate of sharing the same era that he did with Diego I think he'd be much more highly regarded and his lack of success with the national team weighs heavily on his legacy. ( on a side not what a crazy era it was , each one of the footballing triumvirate of maradona/zico/plattini would be heads and shoulders above anyone playing today)

I don't think it affected his legacy that much. Prime Zico was from 1975 to 1982, therefore before Maradona reached his best.

What really hindered his status, especially abroad, were his failures with Seleção(as you said) and that his prime didn't coincide with the onset of Brazilian players going to Europe(he was 30 years old when he went to Udinese and his knee was already destroyed by injuries). Falcão went to Roma in 1980, but he was an anomaly(the only "foreigner" in WC82 team).

Skill-wise, I think he's was inferior to Maradona just in dribbling; a better finisher, passer and free kick taker in my opinion(he was still a great dribbler; way better than Platini, for example).

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Anyone claiming Pele wasn't a genius like Maradona or Messi can't be taken serious.

Almost all of the popular moves players do today was something Pele did back in his heyday 1st. Heck even the Cruyff turn was something Pele did 1st.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Zidane could be in that list. He makes a lot of people's top 10 players.

He could make the top 10 players, but that's still debatable and I think he's behind Cruyff in that list; Cruyff's top 10 place seems more clear cut.

But I don't think he has been a manager long enough to be in consideration to make the top 10 there. Even excluding Cruyff, in no-particular order, Ferguson, Michels, Guardiola, Ancelotti, Sacchi, Busby, Herrera, Mourinho, Happel, Hitzfeld, Trapattoni, Shankly, Capello, Clough and Lippi would all rank ahead at this point in time IMO (and I could easily be missing other names), of course not just counting trophies but also looking at overall influence on the sport, the resources that they had to work with etc.

 

[Red the Bear]

I don't think it affected his legacy that much. Prime Zico was from 1975 to 1982, therefore before Maradona reached his best.

What really hindered his status, especially abroad, were his failures with Seleção(as you said) and that his prime didn't coincide with the onset of Brazilian players going to Europe(he was 30 years old when he went to Udinese and his knee was already destroyed by injuries). Falcão went to Roma in 1980, but he was an anomaly(the only "foreigner" in WC82 team).

Skill-wise, I think he's was inferior to Maradona just in dribbling; a better finisher, passer and free kick taker in my opinion(he was still a great dribbler; way better than Platini, for example).

I think it still did harm him in the sense that after 86 both him and plattini were relegated to footnotes overshadowed by the main play which was marfona's mercurial world cup glory, didn't help that both Brazil and France had relatively disappointing campaigns, zico even had the misfortune of missing a penalty.

But yeah you're spot on, had Brazil won it he'd be remembered much more fondly, and they did get agonizingly close to it too which must sting all the more(one could argue 1978 was rigged even but what's done is done.)

 

[Alpha 1]

I don't think it affected his legacy that much. Prime Zico was from 1975 to 1982, therefore before Maradona reached his best.

What really hindered his status, especially abroad, were his failures with Seleção(as you said) and that his prime didn't coincide with the onset of Brazilian players going to Europe(he was 30 years old when he went to Udinese and his knee was already destroyed by injuries). Falcão went to Roma in 1980, but he was an anomaly(the only "foreigner" in WC82 team).

Skill-wise, I think he's was inferior to Maradona just in dribbling; a better finisher, passer and free kick taker in my opinion(he was still a great dribbler; way better than Platini, for example).

Maradona was the better passer. Free kicks and finishing was close. Dribbling, ofcourse Maradona was on another level but Zico was no slouch.

Zidane could be in that list. He makes a lot of people's top 10 players.

A controversial top 10 player; for me, maybe top 20- 25. Cruyff is clear-cut in top 10.

 

[Physiocrat]

The good thing with these kind of takes is that it helps making friendly reminders of Pelé's genius:

• Pelé debuted oficially in 1957 with 16 years, and on his first season he became the tournament's top goal scorer. He then proceeded to defend that title for 8 consecutive seasons.
• The Campeonato Paulista had been played since 1902. Until 1957 when Pelé debuted, his team got the title a total of 3 times. Then during Pelé's 16 year period in Santos FC, he managed to win it 10 times. After that they won only 2 in the next 30 years.
• Of course, we consider the campeonato Paulista because when Pelé started playing there wasn't a unified brazilian championship. The first one was in 1959 and Santos was second to Bahía. Mainly because Pelé didn't play the final game (IIRC cause he was in military duty as he was 18 years old). They didn't participate in the next one (as Santos lost the Paulista final to Palmeiras), then proceeded to win the tournament 5 times in a row. This is the tournament where Didí, Garrincha, Vavá, Amarildo, Zagallo, Tostao, Gerson, Jairzinho and Rivelino were all playing in other teams.
• Even so, maybe the problem is that the league was too weak. So maybe we should compare it to the rest. Santos didn't get to play the first two editions of Copa Libertadores because only the brazilian champion (Bahía in 1960 and Palmeiras in 1961) were allowed to do so. When they won the Taca do Brasil in 1961, they got to participate and proceeded to win it two times in a row. Pelé only took place in one more Libertadores (1965, when he was the top scorer) and when he left the club, Santos had to wait 38 years for Neymar to lead them to the title again.
• As the Libertadores champion got to play with the European Cup champion in the intercontinental cup, we got to see Pelé 's playing against the best teams in Europe. First was Eusebio's Benfica, who lost 8-4 on agreggate with Pelé scoring 5 times in 2 games (note: he was 21 at that time). Then it was Gianni Rivera's AC Milan, in which he only took place in one match due to injury, scoring twice again. That's 7 in 3 games and 2 titles in a row again. Of course, Santos never won this again after Pelé left.
• Going into NT territory, Brazil was really good even without Pelé. Unfortunately, they only managed to get one title in 30 years before Pelé's arrival (the 1949 southamerican championship, while having home advantage) and after him leaving the squad they had to wait 19 years for another title and 24 for another world cup (both thanks to Romario). During his period in Brazil squad he managed to win 3 world cups, playing 14 matches and scoring 12 goals. He only played one southamerican championship and while he didn't win, he was the top scorer with 9 goals in 7 games.
• As for the "stratosphere" and "professionalism", I tend to recommend the 'Pelé did it first' videos on Youtube. I'm sure you'll appreciate them.

That's an exceptional post.

 

[Son]

The good thing with these kind of takes is that it helps making friendly reminders of Pelé's genius:

• Pelé debuted oficially in 1957 with 16 years, and on his first season he became the tournament's top goal scorer. He then proceeded to defend that title for 8 consecutive seasons.
• The Campeonato Paulista had been played since 1902. Until 1957 when Pelé debuted, his team got the title a total of 3 times. Then during Pelé's 16 year period in Santos FC, he managed to win it 10 times. After that they won only 2 in the next 30 years.
• Of course, we consider the campeonato Paulista because when Pelé started playing there wasn't a unified brazilian championship. The first one was in 1959 and Santos was second to Bahía. Mainly because Pelé didn't play the final game (IIRC cause he was in military duty as he was 18 years old). They didn't participate in the next one (as Santos lost the Paulista final to Palmeiras), then proceeded to win the tournament 5 times in a row. This is the tournament where Didí, Garrincha, Vavá, Amarildo, Zagallo, Tostao, Gerson, Jairzinho and Rivelino were all playing in other teams.
• Even so, maybe the problem is that the league was too weak. So maybe we should compare it to the rest. Santos didn't get to play the first two editions of Copa Libertadores because only the brazilian champion (Bahía in 1960 and Palmeiras in 1961) were allowed to do so. When they won the Taca do Brasil in 1961, they got to participate and proceeded to win it two times in a row. Pelé only took place in one more Libertadores (1965, when he was the top scorer) and when he left the club, Santos had to wait 38 years for Neymar to lead them to the title again.
• As the Libertadores champion got to play with the European Cup champion in the intercontinental cup, we got to see Pelé 's playing against the best teams in Europe. First was Eusebio's Benfica, who lost 8-4 on agreggate with Pelé scoring 5 times in 2 games (note: he was 21 at that time). Then it was Gianni Rivera's AC Milan, in which he only took place in one match due to injury, scoring twice again. That's 7 in 3 games and 2 titles in a row again. Of course, Santos never won this again after Pelé left.
• Going into NT territory, Brazil was really good even without Pelé. Unfortunately, they only managed to get one title in 30 years before Pelé's arrival (the 1949 southamerican championship, while having home advantage) and after him leaving the squad they had to wait 19 years for another title and 24 for another world cup (both thanks to Romario). During his period in Brazil squad he managed to win 3 world cups, playing 14 matches and scoring 12 goals. He only played one southamerican championship and while he didn't win, he was the top scorer with 9 goals in 7 games.
• As for the "stratosphere" and "professionalism", I tend to recommend the 'Pelé did it first' videos on Youtube. I'm sure you'll appreciate them.

That’s a great post. I’ll take a look and always open to been educated on something before my time. Thanks for all that information and I will look at those YouTube videos you mentioned.

 

[brontelicious]

a friend of mine once told me he'd take messi over CR7 (his wording) any day. Though CR7 is the better player, said friend, messi is the greatest GOAT of all time

The good thing with these kind of takes is that it helps making friendly reminders of Pelé's genius:

• Pelé debuted oficially in 1957 with 16 years, and on his first season he became the tournament's top goal scorer. He then proceeded to defend that title for 8 consecutive seasons.
• The Campeonato Paulista had been played since 1902. Until 1957 when Pelé debuted, his team got the title a total of 3 times. Then during Pelé's 16 year period in Santos FC, he managed to win it 10 times. After that they won only 2 in the next 30 years.
• Of course, we consider the campeonato Paulista because when Pelé started playing there wasn't a unified brazilian championship. The first one was in 1959 and Santos was second to Bahía. Mainly because Pelé didn't play the final game (IIRC cause he was in military duty as he was 18 years old). They didn't participate in the next one (as Santos lost the Paulista final to Palmeiras), then proceeded to win the tournament 5 times in a row. This is the tournament where Didí, Garrincha, Vavá, Amarildo, Zagallo, Tostao, Gerson, Jairzinho and Rivelino were all playing in other teams.
• Even so, maybe the problem is that the league was too weak. So maybe we should compare it to the rest. Santos didn't get to play the first two editions of Copa Libertadores because only the brazilian champion (Bahía in 1960 and Palmeiras in 1961) were allowed to do so. When they won the Taca do Brasil in 1961, they got to participate and proceeded to win it two times in a row. Pelé only took place in one more Libertadores (1965, when he was the top scorer) and when he left the club, Santos had to wait 38 years for Neymar to lead them to the title again.
• As the Libertadores champion got to play with the European Cup champion in the intercontinental cup, we got to see Pelé 's playing against the best teams in Europe. First was Eusebio's Benfica, who lost 8-4 on agreggate with Pelé scoring 5 times in 2 games (note: he was 21 at that time). Then it was Gianni Rivera's AC Milan, in which he only took place in one match due to injury, scoring twice again. That's 7 in 3 games and 2 titles in a row again. Of course, Santos never won this again after Pelé left.
• Going into NT territory, Brazil was really good even without Pelé. Unfortunately, they only managed to get one title in 30 years before Pelé's arrival (the 1949 southamerican championship, while having home advantage) and after him leaving the squad they had to wait 19 years for another title and 24 for another world cup (both thanks to Romario). During his period in Brazil squad he managed to win 3 world cups, playing 14 matches and scoring 12 goals. He only played one southamerican championship and while he didn't win, he was the top scorer with 9 goals in 7 games.
• As for the "stratosphere" and "professionalism", I tend to recommend the 'Pelé did it first' videos on Youtube. I'm sure you'll appreciate them.

an excellent post detailing pele's arrant genius, which some upon the internet have curiously disregarded. i cannot remember the offender's name, but i read an american commentator, to zero scrutiny, claim pele's race as the reason he was constantly rated near the top

it is important brute facts and timely reminders are forthcoming, especially in our misinformed times