Turkey

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Seriously though lot of unrest in the last 24 hours - superficially over the tearing down of some park for a mall/shopping center. But the rhetoric from the ultra-secularists seems to be very political in note.

Turkey about to get a taste of its own medicine? Been involved in quiet a bit of 'nation building' recently.
 

sglowrider

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The military getting back at Erdogan for jailing a few of their own? Setting up something for the future?
 

Genius Me!

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Well it seems that the police started attacking their people first. The PM is banning journalists and newsreporters from reporting anything.
 

Kaos

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Ahh good ol' Turkey. When its not busy exporting democracy to its neighbours it takes part in its favourite hobbies including committing cultural genocide against its native Kurdish population, violent suppressing protesters and continuing to deny the irrefutable Armenian genocide.
 

Genius Me!

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Ahh good ol' Turkey. When its not busy exporting democracy to its neighbours it takes part in its favourite hobbies including committing cultural genocide against its native Kurdish population, violent suppressing protesters and continuing to deny the irrefutable Armenian genocide.
You can feck right off.
 

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AK Party would win free elections quite easily...Erdogan is a prick, but while the urbanites might be feeling sorry for themselves, the rural population will vote them in again.
 

JakeC

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AK Party would win free elections quite easily...Erdogan is a prick, but while the urbanites might be feeling sorry for themselves, the rural population will vote them in again.
Who's most likely to be behind this uprising? CHP, MHP or someone else?
 

Neutral

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I honestly believe there is a great deal of spontaneity, just a lot of issues and pent up frustration and anger but TV coverage has shown plenty of leftist/Marxist + right wing ultra nationalist flags and banners....

Turkey has progressed economically and in terms of global importance in the last decade, but it has also lost a lot of the militant secularism that defined it for decades and decades.

And that's fine as far as I'm concerned - if the majority of the populace is leaning away from ultra secularism, the army should not be taking away the right of the ppl to do that!

But, equally - you can't expect generations of Turks who grew up with a certain belief and vision of the country, to simply sit idle and not react.

I do find it hilarious though...Turks tried so hard to appease Europe - look we're not like those other 'Muslim' savages(going far beyond what even many european nations have done - banning the wearing of hijabs in state run offices and universities) and yet they are still European rejects lolololol
 

Kaos

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I honestly believe there is a great deal of spontaneity, just a lot of issues and pent up frustration and anger but TV coverage has shown plenty of leftist/Marxist + right wing ultra nationalist flags and banners....

Turkey has progressed economically and in terms of global importance in the last decade, but it has also lost a lot of the militant secularism that defined it for decades and decades.

And that's fine as far as I'm concerned - if the majority of the populace is leaning away from ultra secularism, the army should not be taking away the right of the ppl to do that!

But, equally - you can't expect generations of Turks who grew up with a certain belief and vision of the country, to simply sit idle and not react.

I do find it hilarious though...Turks tried so hard to appease Europe - look we're not like those other 'Muslim' savages(going far beyond what even many european nations have done - banning the wearing of hijabs in state run offices and universities) and yet they are still European rejects lolololol
I'd also think its gross violation of human rights towards ethnic minorities and dissidents which has labelled them 'European rejects'.
 

Revan

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I honestly believe there is a great deal of spontaneity, just a lot of issues and pent up frustration and anger but TV coverage has shown plenty of leftist/Marxist + right wing ultra nationalist flags and banners....

Turkey has progressed economically and in terms of global importance in the last decade, but it has also lost a lot of the militant secularism that defined it for decades and decades.

And that's fine as far as I'm concerned - if the majority of the populace is leaning away from ultra secularism, the army should not be taking away the right of the ppl to do that!

But, equally - you can't expect generations of Turks who grew up with a certain belief and vision of the country, to simply sit idle and not react.

I do find it hilarious though...Turks tried so hard to appease Europe - look we're not like those other 'Muslim' savages(going far beyond what even many european nations have done - banning the wearing of hijabs in state run offices and universities) and yet they are still European rejects lolololol
Good post. While Turkey has advanced significantly under Erdogan, still I don't find a good thing the de-secularism of Turkey in the recent years.
 

Neutral

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Kaos - without doubt, human rights violations, fierce opposition from the Greeks and Cypriots also played a part.

The Armenian issue - still rankles a lot of people, the Kurdish issue unfortunately not so much. I know in 2010 in the US there was a lot of talk about a resolution in the House.
 

JakeC

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I honestly believe there is a great deal of spontaneity, just a lot of issues and pent up frustration and anger but TV coverage has shown plenty of leftist/Marxist + right wing ultra nationalist flags and banners....

Turkey has progressed economically and in terms of global importance in the last decade, but it has also lost a lot of the militant secularism that defined it for decades and decades.

And that's fine as far as I'm concerned - if the majority of the populace is leaning away from ultra secularism, the army should not be taking away the right of the ppl to do that!

But, equally - you can't expect generations of Turks who grew up with a certain belief and vision of the country, to simply sit idle and not react.

I do find it hilarious though...Turks tried so hard to appease Europe - look we're not like those other 'Muslim' savages(going far beyond what even many european nations have done - banning the wearing of hijabs in state run offices and universities) and yet they are still European rejects lolololol
What do you mean European rejects? They're on track in their quest to join the EU aren't they?
 

Peasplease

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I do find it hilarious though...Turks tried so hard to appease Europe - look we're not like those other 'Muslim' savages(going far beyond what even many european nations have done - banning the wearing of hijabs in state run offices and universities) and yet they are still European rejects lolololol
Banning hijabs has feck all to do with Turkey trying to enter the EU. The ban existed before the EU was even a thing.
 

JakeC

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If I was head of the EU. I wouldn't allow any country that wasn't secular in.

Although that would mean throwing the UK and Norway out.
 

Neutral

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Banning hijabs has feck all to do with Turkey trying to enter the EU. The ban existed before the EU was even a thing.
Obviously(though I should have expressed myself a bit better)

It was a comment on to what extent Kemal Ataturk and the secularist establishment tried to change Turkey from the remnants of the crumbling Ottoman Empire.

What is the image most ppl have when they think of a Muslim majority nation and then reconcile that with Turkey...

I just found it funny that despite all that work and banning of the original incarnation of the AK Party - what was it called Virtue Party or something? the 'conservatives', 'traditionalists', 'Islamists' however you want to label them, still ended up in power...and the 'Islamic itch' had to be scratched...simply trying to suppress it didn't work.
 

Revan

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What do you mean European rejects? They're on track in their quest to join the EU aren't they?
Turkey are a secular state. And they probably should have been at EU until now. I mean, Cyprus after all are although they didn't meet many requirements.
 

JakeC

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Turkey are a secular state. And they probably should have been at EU until now. I mean, Cyprus after all are although they didn't meet many requirements.
I know they are!

Turkey have improved on atleast 30/33 requirements.
 

I_live_cement

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If I was head of the EU. I wouldn't allow any country that wasn't secular in.

Although that would mean throwing the UK and Norway out.
And yet the supposedly secular Ireland still has stone age religious-based laws.

Ho-hum.
 

JakeC

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I agree. I'm the first one to tell you that Ireland, although not as controlled by the Church as it was, has a long way to go.
 

Danny1982

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Mr Erdogan warned the protesters in his initial speech on Saturday. “If you gather 200,000 people, I can gather a million.”
I say we arm those 200,000, and send Al-Qaeda fight with them, and see what happens.

939 people have been arrested in more than 90 separate demonstrations around Turkey and More than 1,000 people have been injured in Istanbul and several hundred more in Ankara.
That's a lot after just three days.
 

holyland red

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Helping the oppressed? I thought that's the US' (and EU's) job.. :rolleyes:
Erdogan was a hero on here not that long ago, when Sunni extremism seemed to be Israel's rather than Assad's trouble.

Didn't Khaled Mesh'al reside in Damascus too? If you lie down with dogs and all...
 

Revan

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Holyland, how are the relations between the Israel and Turkey. Have they been repaired after that boat incident?
 

Slevs

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Ahh good ol' Turkey. When its not busy exporting democracy to its neighbours it takes part in its favourite hobbies including committing cultural genocide against its native Kurdish population, violent suppressing protesters and continuing to deny the irrefutable Armenian genocide.
Kaos - without doubt, human rights violations, fierce opposition from the Greeks and Cypriots also played a part.

The Armenian issue - still rankles a lot of people, the Kurdish issue unfortunately not so much. I know in 2010 in the US there was a lot of talk about a resolution in the House.
These two bits have put a smile on my face.:)
 

Revan

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Born in Lebanon but have an Armenian origin (family name, Armenian school, upbringing)
Ah, guessed so. I seen the rimaldo thread asking you about Armenian Christmas and then seen the internet provider web page you posted that was from Lebanon.
 

Slevs

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Ah, guessed so. I seen the rimaldo thread asking you about Armenian Christmas and then seen the internet provider web page you posted that was from Lebanon.
Clever.:D
 

holyland red

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Holyland, how are the relations between the Israel and Turkey. Have they been repaired after that boat incident?
There was talk of some agreement recently. Things won't go back to what they were before Erdogan, but events in Syria may have convinced him that the gamble on Assad a couple of years ago wasn't his best.

Currently there seems to be an impasse regarding the compensation to the flotilla victims, but the issue runs deeper than that. Erdogan considers Turkey under his rule as a regional superpower, and himself as a leader of the Sunni Middle East. In either role, relations with Israel aren't going to be what they were a decade ago.
 

Silva

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To my friends who live outside of Turkey:

I am writing to let you know what is going on in Istanbul for the last five days. I personally have to write this because most of the media sources are shut down by the government and the word of mouth and the internet are the only ways left for us to explain ourselves and call for help and support.

Four days ago a group of people who did not belong to any specific organization or ideology got together in Istanbul’s Gezi Park. Among them there were many of my friends and students. Their reason was simple: To prevent and protest the upcoming demolishing of the park for the sake of building yet another shopping mall at very center of the city. There are numerous shopping malls in Istanbul, at least one in every neighborhood! The tearing down of the trees was supposed to begin early Thursday morning. People went to the park with their blankets, books and children. They put their tents down and spent the night under the trees. Early in the morning when the bulldozers started to pull the hundred-year-old trees out of the ground, they stood up against them to stop the operation.

They did nothing other than standing in front of the machines.

No newspaper, no television channel was there to report the protest. It was a complete media black out.

But the police arrived with water cannon vehicles and pepper spray. They chased the crowds out of the park.

In the evening the number of protesters multiplied. So did the number of police forces around the park. Meanwhile local government of Istanbul shut down all the ways leading up to Taksim square where the Gezi Park is located. The metro was shut down, ferries were cancelled, roads were blocked.

Yet more and more people made their way up to the center of the city by walking.

They came from all around Istanbul. They came from all different backgrounds, different ideologies, different religions. They all gathered to prevent the demolition of something bigger than the park:

The right to live as honorable citizens of this country.

They gathered and marched. Police chased them with pepper spray and tear gas and drove their tanks over people who offered the police food in return. Two young people were run over by the tanks and were killed. Another young woman, a friend of mine, was hit in the head by one of the incoming tear gas canisters. The police were shooting them straight into the crowd. After a three hour operation she is still in Intensive Care Unit and in very critical condition. As I write this we don’t know if she is going to make it. This blog is dedicated to her.

These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its people’s will.

On top of all that, the government control over its people’s personal lives has become unbearable as of late. The state, under its conservative agenda passed many laws and regulations concerning abortion, cesarean birth, sale and use of alcohol and even the color of lipstick worn by the airline stewardesses.

People who are marching to the center of Istanbul are demanding their right to live freely and receive justice, protection and respect from the State. They demand to be involved in the decision-making processes about the city they live in.

What they have received instead is excessive force and enormous amounts of tear gas shot straight into their faces. Three people lost their eyes.

Yet they still march. Hundred of thousands join them. Couple of more thousand passed the Bosporus Bridge on foot to support the people of Taksim.

No newspaper or TV channel was there to report the events. They were busy with broadcasting news about Miss Turkey and “the strangest cat of the world”.

Police kept chasing people and spraying them with pepper spray to an extent that stray dogs and cats were poisoned and died by it.

Schools, hospitals and even 5 star hotels around Taksim Square opened their doors to the injured. Doctors filled the classrooms and hotel rooms to provide first aid. Some police officers refused to spray innocent people with tear gas and quit their jobs. Around the square they placed jammers to prevent internet connection and 3g networks were blocked. Residents and businesses in the area provided free wireless network for the people on the streets. Restaurants offered food and water for free.

People in Ankara and İzmir gathered on the streets to support the resistance in Istanbul.

Mainstream media kept showing Miss Turkey and “the strangest cat of the world”.

***

I am writing this letter so that you know what is going on in Istanbul. Mass media will not tell you any of this. Not in my country at least. Please post as many as articles as you see on the Internet and spread the word.

As I was posting articles that explained what is happening in Istanbul on my Facebook page last night someone asked me the following question:

«What are you hoping to gain by complaining about our country to foreigners?»

This blog is my answer to her.

By so called «complaining» about my country I am hoping to gain:

Freedom of expression and speech,

Respect for human rights,

Control over the decisions I make concerning my on my body,

The right to legally congregate in any part of the city without being considered a terrorist.

But most of all by spreading the word to you, my friends who live in other parts of the world, I am hoping to get your awareness, support and help!

Please spread the word and share this blog.

Thank you!

For futher info and things you can do for help please see Amnesty International’s Call for Urgent Help
http://defnesumanblogs.com/2013/06/01/what-is-happenning-in-istanbul/