Not apparently - it is! It was the most important game of the season - against the weakest team we have met all season - and we were outplayed. That IS the definition of a weak mentality
U18s - Manchester City
- Thread starter KjaAnd
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Or... it was a cup upset. They happen. Maybe there is a weak mentality there but you can't make that judgement off one cup game.
I can see why cup upsets can cause doubts but I’ve been impressed by the resilience shown at times this season. Getting wins when not playing well, coming back from behind and big players missing an still performing.
Hopefully it’ll motivate them the rest of the season.
Hopefully it’ll motivate them the rest of the season.
What about grinding out wins against our rivals who chase us in the table? Several last minute winners? Why does that not show strong mentality?
Exactly.
Wheatley is kinda starter for the U21s now after Hugill leaves. I would say Kingdon to move up after Bennetts sent out on loan, maybe Jackson as well if we send Kwambala out. On midfield McAllister, Curley and Fritzegald would be those in line to be promoted. Gore is going out on loan soon and I don’t see Shoretire staying either.
Our 07/08 team must have been mentally weak too, got eliminated by Portsmouth in SF. Ffs.
It shows a strong mentality in that game - but it doesn't change the fact that the FA Youth Cup is by far, a more important game. A lot of the players who got their chance with Uniteds first-team (or at other clubs at the highest level), had one thing in common - they performed in the FA Youth Cup. Blackmore, Hughes, Whiteside, Class of 92, Lingard, Pogba, Keanex2, Greenwood, Mainoo, Garnacho, Welbeck, Drinkwater all either won, reached the final (Welbeck and Drinkwater) or performed individually (Greenwood) really well in the FA Youth Cup
In addition I can think of 5-6 other players who made a good career for United in the last 20 years or so where I don't know how they performed in the FA Youth Cup (McTominay, Evans, Cleverley to name some), and some who were part of an FA Youth Cup-run that ended quickly (O'Shea being one) - but the general rule is that a good performance in the FA Youth Cup at best increases your chance of making it at United - quite a lot.
Of course it also has to do with qualities - the general reason is that players who don't perform in the FA Youth Cup simply aren't good enough - and that's why they never get a chance at the highest level. But when you have a team with 11 straight wins in the league, despite changing 3-4 players every week - they should be good enough in terms of footballing qualities. At least some of the players should be good enough to have a chance at making it. But the first time they play a really important game - they fold. Against a team that is 2 levels below what they play every week. Not a single player showed any desire or any will to win.
I can promise you - what I wrote here, every single player in that game got from Lawrence - in a much harsher tone. "Do you have the will and desire to make it ?" Some of those players might get a few chances to prove they have what it takes - and they need to take it when they get that chance. And doing well in the FA Youth Cup is the easiest way to prove that they at least deserve the chance - not all of those players will get that chance because of that defeat against Swindon.
So yeah - I noticed your mocking tone. But I stand by my words - if a team as good as that, fail the first time they play in a match where the result is more important than the performance (although both was awful in that specific game) - it says a bit about their mentality.
And surely, by the same token, when said team defeats their main rivals for the league in the first game after such an embarrassing defeat, this must also say something about their mentality.
Was our double-winning 1993/94 team mentally weak because they got knocked out of CL in the second round by Galatasaray?
So you are comparing losing 2-0 to the youth side of one of the worst sides in the league to going out against a good Turkish side ?
In addition - one of the main reasons that team didn't do too well in Europe was the foreigner rule. We played that game without at least Irwin, Parker, Kanchelskis and McClair. In back then the squds weren't as big as they are today, so that hurt us a lot in Europe. Lee Martin who started that game played something like 4-5 matches the entire season, and Lee Sharpe had to be moved into defense.
Just curious about how the logic works for different sides. In my opinion the current U18s have shown much more strong mentality this season than they have shown weakness. One loss doesn’t define them. 12 out of 12 in the league does it more. Agree to disagree.
Up until that match - I absolutely agreed with you. But when it mattered the most, they folded like a deck of cards. I hope it was a one off - I hope the coaching staff can make them realize that at this club you have to take the chance when you get it. Some step up - like Mainoo, like Garnacho, like Greenwood - some don't. So yes - I hope I am wrong!
Or: When it mattered the most, in the derby after a shock defeat, they pulled through.
I agree that the FAYC is historically the biggest youth competition in the country but I’m not sure winning it would necessarily mean more to the players than the U18 PL title.
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Great result after the Swindon game. Notice a lack of weareshite/noneofthesekidsareanygood merchants on here today. In fact, they butchered at least 3 very good opportunities. So, we are sometimes good, sometimes bad. That's life. But of Amass doesn't make it into the 1st team in the near future, I will be amazed. Great talent.
I feel that the FA Youth Cup has always been overrated due to some of famous sides of us winning it - and also with us holding the record of most trophies. Fact is winning it means that is a good youth side - and naturally a good youth side will have some great talents that eventually make a breakthrough on the first team. But it's not the other way round - not winning it doesn't mean you are not good, or weak mentally or whatever. It's just a cup, no need to be over religious about it. Great sides lost in the cups every single season.
Don't remind me of that game
Still kills me to this day as it would have been another treble. Damn Kusczak getting sent off.Don't remind me of that game
When was the last time we won U18 league? I know that we did not in the last 10 years, but can't remember when was the last time and we are certainly with a big chance to win it this year.
Regarding Cup game, a lot of kids from this team can do it next year as they are younger.
Regarding Cup game, a lot of kids from this team can do it next year as they are younger.
We haven’t won it since it was founded in 2012, or its predecessor Premier Academy League (1997-2012).
Won it under McKenna didn't we? Although that was only the North Division.
Yes, lost the final to Chelsea in 2017/18.
Vaguely remember that. Was a really fantastic side that McKenna team, a decent chunk of that squad is either playing top flight football (Gomes, Garner, Greenwood, Kovar, Ramazani, Chong, Mengi, Puigmal) or in the Championship (Laird, Williams, Bernard). Some obviously playing a much bigger role than others but it's still a very decent indication of how good that side was.
And the side they lost to had CHO, Lamptey, Reece James, Guehi, Billy Gilmour, Mceachran, and Gallagher.
Equally talented sides, but I think the Chelsea side was slightly further along in their development.
Quarter Final. Even worse !!!
Hudson-Odoi was something else as a kid, superb talent. Hasn't quite come together for him as a pro just yet but he's got ability in droves.
Slight tangent but I wonder what youth team match had the most players that ended up as top flight footballers in the modern era, that Chelsea vs United match must be up there.
Good bounce back result from the team after being dumped out of the cup.
Regarding the FA Youth cup success in it can sometimes be cosmetic because all the success in that competition tells you that you have a produced a good team but not always future first teamers..and that's the ultimate goal....
I remember the 2003 winners, great team nearly all went on to play at a good level made names for themselves elsewhere but no-one broke into the first team and managed to hold down a spot. Keiran Richardson was the closest I think, he was a decent squad player for a couple of years before being moved on...
Of the 1995 winners only Phil Neville broke through and he was already embedded in the first team squad that 94/95 season.
Regarding the FA Youth cup success in it can sometimes be cosmetic because all the success in that competition tells you that you have a produced a good team but not always future first teamers..and that's the ultimate goal....
I remember the 2003 winners, great team nearly all went on to play at a good level made names for themselves elsewhere but no-one broke into the first team and managed to hold down a spot. Keiran Richardson was the closest I think, he was a decent squad player for a couple of years before being moved on...
Of the 1995 winners only Phil Neville broke through and he was already embedded in the first team squad that 94/95 season.
I agree with this.
Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Rossi, Pique, Rashford and McTominay failed to win an FA Youth Cup but still went on to mount loads of appearances for the first team over a number of years.
Winning it isnt the be all and end all.
Well - on this topic we strongly disagree but it would be boring if people always agreed and I have the utmost respect for you as a poster so .. I can live with a big of disagreement
Likewise. And apologies for the mocking tone btw.Well - on this topic we strongly disagree but it would be boring if people always agreed and I have the utmost respect for you as a poster so .. I can live with a big of disagreement
I have been called much worse haha. At least you are a good poster
Scanlon is one I don't think will make the grade at United but could have the ability to make it as a solid squad player around lower Prem/Championship level. Got a few tricks up his sleeve but also lacking in a few areas. Though it would be fascinating to see a kid who represents one of the lowest ranked national teams in the world, playing in the first team of one of the biggest clubs in the world.