UEFA too soft on clubs who can't control their fans....

[lysglimt]

Saw some pictures from Twentes match against Hammarby - and Twentes fans attacked the 200 Hammarby-fans inside the stadium - one person was sent to the hospital after taking several punches and kicks. Why do the people at UEFA accept this ? If a club like Twente can't control their fans - and on top of everything, where it is physically possible to get to the away-fans - why are they even allowed to participate ?

Isn't it time to kick clubs out if they both can't control their fans and don't have proper protection in place for visiting fans ? 40 years ago I would have been terrified to go to an English footballmatch - today I cant imagine a much safer place to be than at a footballmatch in England. If other clubs can't get to the bottom of this issue, should they even be allowed to play european matches ?

I know UEFA will only slap a small fine on Twente - but they should be kicked out.

 

[horsechoker]

@KirkDuyt

 

[adexkola]

What happened to playing matches behind closed doors? Doesn't punish the players and staff. Only the fans.

 

[Wumminator]

- Twentes fans attacked the 200 Hammarby-fans inside the stadium -

Bloody hell the mad bastards - they’re outnumbered 10 to 1.

 

[horsechoker]

Bloody hell the mad bastards - they’re outnumbered 10 to 1.

The twente fans is the true sequal to the 300 Spartans

 

[KirkDuyt]

Would probably have helped if the Hammarby fans wouldn't have announced they'd take over the stadium, made trouble in Enschede before the match, screamed throughout the moment of silence before the match and bought tickets in the homestands to constantly provoke people.

But other than that, yes Twente has some shite fans too.

 

[90 + 5min]

Would probably have helped if the Hammarby fans wouldn't have announced they'd take over the stadium, made trouble in Enschede before the match, screamed throughout the moment of silence before the match and bought tickets in the homestands to constantly provoke people.

But other than that, yes Twente has some shite fans too.

This is false and incorrect that you wonder where you got this information. I would advice you to check your sources better.

 

[KirkDuyt]

This is false and incorrect that you wonder where you got this information. I would advice you to check your sources better.

Which part is false? You can travel to Enschede to see the vandalism for yourself if you want. They probably havent cleaned all the graffiti yet.

Not disputing Twente doesnt have shit fans mind you.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The reports I've seen are a little odd. The visitors who were attacked were sitting in the VIP section? So, did the Twente hooligans attack ordinary/standard VIP types (which would be bizarre) - or Hammarby fans of the, say, ultra-ish type who were (again bizarrely) located in the VIP section?

Hard to make sense of what I've read about this so far, would appreciate some insight.

 

[Rapsel]

From what I've heard there were Swedish family members and VIPs in the areas of Twentesupporters instead of with the away fans. One wonders why in this day and age UEFA allows this.

 

[Dan_F]

Saw a video of a woman getting a scarf ripped off her. I’m sure a photo will find its way onto social media of a load of balaclava’d men holding an upside Hammarby scarf at some point.

 

[Rapsel]

The "Sweet Caroline" playing during the riots is the icing on the cake.

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[KirkDuyt]

The reports I've seen are a little odd. The visitors who were attacked were sitting in the VIP section? So, did the Twente hooligans attack ordinary/standard VIP types (which would be bizarre) - or Hammarby fans of the, say, ultra-ish type who were (again bizarrely) located in the VIP section?

Hard to make sense of what I've read about this so far, would appreciate some insight.

Twente has to give 200 tickets to sponsors in the home section, but the people actually there weren't sponsors.

The whole lead up to this game was fecked though.

 

[Plant0x84]

They should penalise Arsenal too. Disgraceful scenes at the friendly last week. They should deduct points or kick them out of Europe.

 

[Botim]

The "Sweet Caroline" playing during the riots is the icing on the cake.

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How do they even know who to fight? They're all dressed exactly the same...

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Twente has to give 200 tickets to sponsors in the home section, but the people actually there weren't sponsors.

Aha, I see.

That explains why apparent VIPs chanted * during the one minute silence, etc. But it's still pretty odd: how did those tickets end up with ordinary ** fans?

* According to someone on Reddit (yes, hardly a first class source, I know) they also threw beer on other (Dutch) VIPs.

** If they did indeed throw beer and whatnot, they obviously weren't ordinary fans. I know something of Scandinavian football, and Hammarby are known for having "ultra" type fans. They have been involved in multiple incidents over the years. CAVEAT: I do NOT know any details about what happened yesterday and I'm not excusing anything/accusing anyone. Just pointing out something that may not be general knowledge on here (many tend to think of Scandinavian fans as super laid-back/peaceful, i.e. the Danish "roligans" stereotype).

 

[Rapsel]

How do they even know who to fight? They're all dressed exactly the same...

During the Albigensian crusade which started in 1209 one asked how they could see the difference between Catholics and infidels. The commanders famously said: "Kill them all and God will sort out his own." I think this principle applies to this as well.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Aha, I see.

That explains why apparent VIPs chanted * during the one minute silence, etc. But it's still pretty odd: how did those tickets end up with ordinary ** fans?

* According to someone on Reddit (yes, hardly a first class source, I know) they also threw beer on other (Dutch) VIPs.

** If they did indeed throw beer and whatnot, they obviously weren't ordinary fans. I know something of Scandinavian football, and Hammarby are known for having "ultra" type fans. They have been involved in multiple incidents over the years. CAVEAT: I do NOT know any details about what happened yesterday and I'm not excusing anything/accusing anyone. Just pointing out something that may not be general knowledge on here (many tend to think of Scandinavian fans as super laid-back/peaceful, i.e. the Danish "roligans" stereotype).

Provocation aside, just attacking people is obviously nuts and plenty of fans on both sides had set the tone in the run up to the game. They should've just preemptively decide to not allow away fans in both legs.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

They shpuld've just preemptively decide to not allow away fans in both legs.

Seems like a sad state of affairs if this is indeed necessary (in 2023). But perhaps it is, realistically.

At the very least, the organizers/clubs need to have a modicum of control with regard to where supporters are seated. They seem to have fecked up completely (and, again, bizarrely) in this case.

On a side note, one can perhaps question how many genuinely "ordinary" (as in, say, a parent and their kid) fans decide to travel down from Stockholm to attend a match like this...my guess would be that the vast majority of the away support will consist of hardcore types (and, again, Hammarby are known for having ultras: as in, people who don't back away from a fight and, if we're being 100% realistic, may be looking for one too).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Another thing which is immediately striking/odd here is how a group of home ultras are able to access the VIP section of the stadium with apparent ease? What the hell were security/the stewards doing? They should have known/noticed that a number of actual (hardcore) away fans were in the VIP section.

Looks like a terrible mess, really, the whole thing.

 

[Halftrack]

This is false and incorrect that you wonder where you got this information. I would advice you to check your sources better.

The source is it's Hammarby fans were talking here, that kind of behaviour is to be expected from them.

 

[padr81]

From what I've heard there were Swedish family members and VIPs in the areas of Twentesupporters instead of with the away fans. One wonders why in this day and age UEFA allows this.

It's amazing how home and away fans can sit together at rugby games, Gaelic football (over here) and just about every other sport in front of crowds of 80k and only in football do they kill each other.

One wonders why in this day and age football fans are such cnuts.

 

[Rapsel]

It's amazing how home and away fans can sit together at rugby games, Gaelic football (over here) and just about every other sport in front of crowds of 80k and only in football do they kill each other.

One wonders why in this day and age football fans are such cnuts.

Could not agree more but here we are.

 

[m1tch]

I'm not sure why criminality is a football club's problem. It's a national justice problem. If the police could effectively arrest people for criminal behaviour, and the justice systems had capacity to process them all efficiently, and there were punishments as a fitting deterrent, then that would be the most appropriate way of dealing with it.

Instead they expect football clubs to try and identify people, ban them, successfully impose those bans, and try to get enough stewards to control groups of fans when they're impossibly outnumbered. Sure a club can put efforts into their setups to minimise the risks, but ultimately countries need to fund their justice systems to deal with citizens that act criminally. Playing behind closed doors achieves nothing.

 

[KirkDuyt]

It's amazing how home and away fans can sit together at rugby games, Gaelic football (over here) and just about every other sport in front of crowds of 80k and only in football do they kill each other.

One wonders why in this day and age football fans are such cnuts.

That's simple. Football is for tokkies.

 

[MileStolar]

During the Albigensian crusade which started in 1209 one asked how they could see the difference between Catholics and infidels. The commanders famously said: "Kill them all and God will sort out his own." I think this principle applies to this as well.

Lovely post, I learned something new and insightful, big thanks!

 

[padr81]

That's simple. Football is for tokkies.

Had no idea what a tokkie is so had to google it, it's a cooler word than chav so shall be my default slur for the hooligan class going forward.

 

[VojjE]

I'm not sure why criminality is a football club's problem. It's a national justice problem. If the police could effectively arrest people for criminal behaviour, and the justice systems had capacity to process them all efficiently, and there were punishments as a fitting deterrent, then that would be the most appropriate way of dealing with it.

Instead they expect football clubs to try and identify people, ban them, successfully impose those bans, and try to get enough stewards to control groups of fans when they're impossibly outnumbered. Sure a club can put efforts into their setups to minimise the risks, but ultimately countries need to fund their justice systems to deal with citizens that act criminally. Playing behind closed doors achieves nothing.

On the other hand, why would the police let them have people in the stadium at a high risk event like a football match if the clubs themselves didn't take those precautions? It feels daft to have the taxpayers put out the money for football clubs benefit and profit.

I feel that clubs are much too lenient with the hooligans and troublemakers and the supporter groups themselves doesn't seem to want to deal with it either.

I'm not sure what can be done that doesn't have that nice hint of chinese government surveilance, like face ID cameras and having to register with ID for every seat and ticket.

 

[do.ob]

Sounds like Twente made things especially pikantje with their ticket allocation.
I don't think maintaining order inside the stadiums should be much of an issue. It's outside, when groups try to attack some "random" locations in the street that things get tricky.

 

[Rapsel]

Lovely post, I learned something new and insightful, big thanks!

Glad to be of service with trivial historical knowledge. May it work in your favor if you ever play in Who wants to be a millionaire.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Twente fans who went to Sweden (bit dumb since they can't enter the stadium) were being hunted down by Hammerby fans in the streets. They even went up to random people asking where they were from in order to beat them up if they answered The Netherlands. Most fans fled to the embassy to ask to be "evacuated".

Is Hammarby always this nice?

 

[RoyH1]

Twente fans who went to Sweden (bit dumb since they can't enter the stadium) were being hunted down by Hammerby fans in the streets. They even went up to random people asking where they were from in order to beat them up if they answered The Netherlands. Most fans fled to the embassy to ask to be "evacuated".

Is Hammarby always this nice?

I don't know about specifically Hammarby, but in general the ultra scene in Sweden has been growing as has the general attendance to games if you take away the pandemic. I know AIK and Hammarby fans have a go at each other pretty frequently. It always brings a smile to my face when people fight at Friends Arena

 

[90 + 5min]

Twente fans who went to Sweden (bit dumb since they can't enter the stadium) were being hunted down by Hammerby fans in the streets. They even went up to random people asking where they were from in order to beat them up if they answered The Netherlands. Most fans fled to the embassy to ask to be "evacuated".

Is Hammarby always this nice?

Shameful behaviour. I understand that people are angry when they saw old people and kids treated like they were last week but you should never use violence.
Hammarby have some ultras but they are not AIK.

 

[noodlehair]

Saw some pictures from Twentes match against Hammarby - and Twentes fans attacked the 200 Hammarby-fans inside the stadium - one person was sent to the hospital after taking several punches and kicks. Why do the people at UEFA accept this ? If a club like Twente can't control their fans - and on top of everything, where it is physically possible to get to the away-fans - why are they even allowed to participate ?

Isn't it time to kick clubs out if they both can't control their fans and don't have proper protection in place for visiting fans ? 40 years ago I would have been terrified to go to an English footballmatch - today I cant imagine a much safer place to be than at a footballmatch in England. If other clubs can't get to the bottom of this issue, should they even be allowed to play european matches ?

I know UEFA will only slap a small fine on Twente - but they should be kicked out.

You say this about England but at the Euro 2020 final the players families were getting assaulted by their own fans and the whole thing was 1 missed Italian penalty away from being an absolute catastrophe.

But yeah it seems to nearly always be down in part to poor organisation or planning.

We were in the middle of the commotion in Marseille when the bonkers Russian fans charged over and attacked everyone. The security on the way in was literally a few volunteer students in bibs. The riot police juat waited outside up the road so they could clobber people, as opposed to there being any real attempt to deter anything from happening in the first place. I remember we all thought it was crazy in the way into the stadium even before the trouble kicked off, given it was an obviously high risk game. Someone could have walked in with a fecking bazooka if they'd wanted to.