They reflect the national viewpoint as much as they influence it. People were against Corbyn and Labour far more than they were pro-Conservative, regardless of the media. Elections in the last few decades have had fairly obvious winners.
I am sure someone else can look up trends - but my assumption would be that as you get older and more affluent you change your voting patterns (who would have thought). It’s not just a case of waiting until all the Tories die off...
Thank Christ.
Great post
My point is that things which are considered to be "leftist" or "liberal" political positions will just become the norm. Thirty years ago openly and strongly campaigning against, say, gay marriage would have been a very much mainstream conservative position. Today it's MUCH less socially acceptable to say it (in happier countries than mine, at least). Or openly campaigning on behalf of official racial segregation would make any politician unelectable in the UK and probably even the US today - wasn't the case half a century ago.
Well that's kind of true but you're talking about a generation of people with totally different values to the ones coming up.
It's funny that people are asserting that centrism is dead hours after the most centrist Tory manifesto arguably ever has just returned a huge majority.
I understand more, thank you mate.
Yes we have - we’ve seen that;
I don't know, for ages on here people have been showing studies about how people change as they get older. I remember a lot of that talk leading up to the election.
When and if Labour do return to government this really needs to be a priority. FPTP is a joke.
That's a lot of people who want Labour.
Interesting point given the millennial generation is and will continue to be poorer than their parents' generations. One wonder whether that struggle to become more affluent will prevent or delay the shift to the right you speak of.
I’ve written extensively in this thread about why Labour wouldn’t win this election. If you’re interested you may read those posts. In spite of my better judgement and being against my family interest I voted Labour as well!
I'm increasingly convinced that a referendum on whether the Tories are allowed to ride the poor like horses would be a close run thing.
Looking for change is fine. Just be careful with that change. It has to be more than just "do away with Corbyn". Putting another Blair in charge, for example, might alienate more voters than it would gain. Going too far into self-flagellation mode and throwing the baby out with the bathwater should be avoided. If there are ten major points in your manifesto, don't throw away all ten: prioritise, identify those that are most important, soften the rest, that sort of thing. It's why I dislike the calls for "centrism" because all too often it seems to imply that a leftist agenda is necessarily a bad thing: leftist parties are necessary, they can't just all go to the centre. That's pointless.
They won't make it a priority because it benefits them as much as it benefits the Tories.
Depends on how you define 'older'. In general, most of them are probably pensioners and don't pay income tax at all. Without them, younger people would have it a lot easier.
Sure there are the pensioners, but there's also the people who are in senior positions in the workplace in high tax bands who are there because they've been working 40 years.
But you then also see the problem with straight away bringing up Blair, right?
They aren’t polls...that’s the result!That's a lot of people who want Labour.
That's clearly why they just got humiliated...Maybe, just maybe, there's more to it than polls? I mean if they 100% correct, then where did all these Labour voters go and why?
And now we come full circle
Clashing egos and 'policy incontinence': inside Labour's campaign
I don't necessarily think that but the Conservative party will have to halt it's slide to right if it wants to continue to exist.
I am very very angry with them. They have lost my trust, perhaps forever.
Let me ask you this then (as I asked another poster who didn’t answer)
Quite possibly, but I think it has a fairly decent one-line slogan to go with it - "Make your vote count", which makes it an easier sell than AV, which people struggled to understand the benefits of and was susceptible to claims it allowed you more than one vote.
Sorry, I miss read. My point is unaffected though, or more my question:
FFS mate - no one turns into Katie Hopkins, except Katie Hopkins. You need to drop this, all Tories are racist shit.
I know what you are saying, and I do agree with a lot, if not all of it. We are spitballing here and to do that, we need to see the whole picture.
Well if you take Labour out as they straddled the divide people have voted for Brexit backing parties in hugely greater numbers than remain backing parties.
I totally understand and appreciate your point but I’m by no means saying we shouldn’t change anything - I think sometimes when you talk with different people on a forum across a number of fragmented posts some of the points are lost.
Strawman argument. That's not what I'm saying.
Irrespective of whether Brexit is good or bad we can be sure now. It's incredibly difficult to get on the housing market. Those that do will probably spend their entire lives paying it off. Wage rises have stagnated etc...
It was about 48% leave to 52% remain if labour were remain campaigners actually. Its not that clear. I'd say its pretty clear that people want the referendum respected regardless though.
Well obviously you can't take Labour out. They weren't a pro brexit party.
I conpletely agree that it's not so much about what Corbyn represents. But it IS about how he and momentum have handled the past 10 or so years, no?
Remember, I'm not British. I don't give a feck about Corbyn, I don't even know a lot about him. If he is out on his arse tomorrow, so be it. I have about as much attachment to him as to the president of, I don't know, Germany. And I don't even remember who that is right now.
