Under 21 League

jb8521

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As part of the most comprehensive review of youth development in over a decade, the 2012/13 season will see the start of the first national competition for U21 players.

The new Barclays U21 Premier League has been devised as part of the new system and will help bridge the gap between Academy and First Team.

Taking part in the 2012/13 Barclays U21 Premier League will be the 23 clubs who applied for Category One status as part of the categorisation process of the new youth development system: 17 Premier League and six Championship clubs applied and will therefore take part.

All the teams have been confirmed and the fixtures compiled for the first phase of the competition, which will kick off on Friday, August 17th.

A draw was recently held at the Premier League to determine which clubs will play up to the end of the year in three national groups: these are split into two groups of eight and one of seven clubs.

The groups are:

National Group One
Arsenal, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Everton, Norwich City, Reading, West Bromwich Albion, West Ham United

National Group Two
Aston Villa, Manchester United, Newcastle United, Southampton, Stoke City, Sunderland, Tottenham Hotspur, Watford

National Group Three
Chelsea, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Liverpool, Manchester City, Middlesbrough, Wolverhampton Wanderers

After this first group stage, the clubs will be placed into three groups based on their performance.

The top three teams from National Group One and Two and the top two sides from National Group Three will qualify for the Elite Group, with the other clubs making it into Qualification Group Tier One or Qualification Group Tier Two depending on their finishing position.

The teams will again play eachother home and away with the top three teams from the Elite Group qualifying for the knockout semi-finals.

The winners of the two Qualification Groups will take part in a play-off to decide who will make up the quartet. The semi-final winners will then contest the final.

The emphasis will be on playing U21 players with each team limited to just three over-age outfield players and one over-age goalkeeper.

Matches will be played over weekends from Friday to Monday and will provide clubs the opportunity for U21 players to be available both for the first team fixtures and the Barclays U21 Premier League.

There is a requirement that at least two Barclays U21 Premier League matches must be at the main ground of each club and the play-offs, semi-finals and final also be played at the main grounds of the home clubs.

Premier League Chief Executive, Richard Scudamore, said: "The restructuring and reform of the Youth Development system in English professional football is driven by the ojective of producing more and better home grown players at every level.

"Each stage of a player's development is tailored to ensuring they have the best possible chance of progressing and the new Barclays U21 Premier League addresses one of the most critical points – the transition from Academy football to the highest standards in the first team.

"We believe this competitive environment, where fans can also come along to watch the next generation of Premier League and international players, will help deliver more talented home grown boys to that next level."

Premier League Director of Youth, Ged Roddy, added: "Much has been done across the game to modernise the youth system over the last three years. Clubs have consistently highlighted the need to create serious competitive games as part of the overall professional game in this country.

"The Barclays U21 Premier League aims to provide that vital transitional step and will become the hardest playground in the world as part of a players total education, because the next game may well be a debut in the Barclays Premier League itself.

"The matches will be structured to complement the Premier League game rounds.

"So, as a first team manager there is a great benefit in knowing that you can have your U21 player on the bench for the first team, but if he doesn’t play then there’s still the option for him to have high quality competitive football that weekend in the U21 League."

The first fixtures scheduled will be in London as Chelsea take on Manchester City and West Ham United play Reading.

Several fixtures take place at clubs main grounds in the first month of the competition: Arsenal will play their first two home matches at the Emirates Stadium against Bolton Wanderers and Blackburn Rovers respectively.

Crystal Palace will kick-off their home campaign against Liverpool on Monday, August 27th at Selhurst Park.

Stamford Bridge will host Chelsea v Wolverhampton Wanderers at 4pm on Saturday, September 1st and on Tuesday, September 18th the Sports Direct Arena will see Newcastle United play local rivals Sunderland.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/premier-league-confirms-u21-fixtures-and-teams.html
Fixtures
http://www.premierleague.com/conten...ins/barclays-u21-premier-league-2012-2013.pdf
 

Levo

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Isn't they a thread on this? damien do your thing
 

JakeC

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That's my thoughts, so whats the difference? Other then forcing clubs to either promote or sell sooner.
 

rcoobc

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jdmufc said:
if it does, how will injured players over 21 be able to get a bit of match fitness, will it be like the olympics where a certain amount of over 21's are allowed?
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Yes. 3 Overage + 1 Overage keeper per match.
 

rcoobc

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samabachan said:
Why not just send the u21s to play a corresponding fixture on the Friday night to the fixture of the senior team over the weekend?
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Because any player that could feature in the full team would either be knackered by playing on the Friday, or constantly miss out. If we are down to 2 strikers and Macheda has to be on the bench, should he be called up he will either have played on friday and be knackered, or not be playing at all.

The Under 21 League will be mainly on the Sunday or Monday and "may shadow those between the first teams where possible" allowing players to sit on the bench for the full team, then play for the Under 21's. It will stop *certain teams* fielding 11 reserve players and not bringing youth players through, whilst making sure the Under 21's still get to play alongside the big boys by allowing 3 overage players to play alongside.

It will fill the gap of competitive football that other countries get by putting youth teams in the lower divisions; there will be a winning team, there will be things to aim for such as finishing in the top 3 to get into the Elite Group. Finishing in the top 3 of that to get to the Semi Finals. Winning those two matches to win it all.

It's absolutely fantastic, it really is in my opinion. The first 14 games for United (or any other team) will be them trying to get into the top 3 to get into the Elite group. The Elite group gives those young players the chance to play against the other best players of their age, as well as giving them the best chance to get to the knockouts.

Should United get to the Elite Group then they have 14 games against the best Under 21 teams in England. Again they are trying to get into that top 3 and into the Semi Final's. Presumably the 1st placed team will play at home against the Playoff winner. Then should they win they will play at home again in the final. Should that be United, the Under 21's will get their "first chance" to play in surely packed Old Trafford crowd (aside from those other two games).

If United don't make the Elite group, well it's disappointing but the season isn't over. Finish top of your group and you can still prove you are the best in England.

It's fantastically well thought out as well, the Elite group; the harder second half of the season, steps up when the League Cup winds down.

Absolutely brilliant. I know the naysayers are going to nay, but it really is in my opinion. English football has been bizarre for so long; but tonnes of stress on 11-16 year olds (leagues, trials, tournaments], then don't let them play competitive football until they reach the mens team aside from the FA Youth Cup. Utterly mental, the exact opposite of other countries which don't stress their kids and have youth teams in the lower divisions (something I am venomously against) and it's finally fixed.
 

rcoobc

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St George's Park Football Centre, U21 Premier League and remind me whats happening with the Under 21 Champions League again?

The revolution has finally arrived. England 2026 World Cup winners probably playing Wales in the final I say.



Edit - To avoid spamming this thread again here is a very quick summary:

Under 21 league feature 3 overage outfield players per game. Best 24 teams in England are randomly drawn into 3 groups of 8; with the top 3 teams qualifying for the Elite group. Each team plays 14 games during the first half of the season against teams of varying strength giving players time to be involved in the League Cup.

->

The Elite group then features the best 8 teams who again play for the top 3 spots. The Elite group features the best Under 21 teams playing against each other now that the League Cup has finished. Top 3 teams go to the semi finals along with 1 team from the lesser two groups.

->

The Semi Finals and the Final are played in the home teams main stadium; with the home team presumably being the Elite group winner against the playoff winner, and the Elite group runner up against the 3rd place team for the semi finals. And again for the final.
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gooDevil

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It's too bad all 20 EPL teams didn't sign up, it would have been quite convenient if all the Under 21 matches could shadow the First Team match from the day before. I assume only 17 teams signing up, and the 6 from the Championship, prevented all the teams from being in a single division and all playing each other home and away. Personally I'd prefer that because then each team, good or bad, gets to play the same amount of games.

As the winners move on to another group I hope they move the losers on to play each other as well, surely they need the practice as much or more than the better teams. No sense giving the Under 21 kids half a season as punishment for not making it out of the group stages.

edit: Nevermind, losers keep playing, great stuff.
 

rcoobc

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You didn't read much of that did you gooD :D My attempt at a FAQ:


Why didn't all the Premier League teams sign up?

It's the 23 English Category One teams. They are divided into 3 random groups of 8 or 7 teams for the first half of the season, playing 14 or 12 games. These games won't be as competitive as the second half (for the best Under 21 players anyway), but the League Cup may give those players early opportunities.

What happens in the second half of the season?

In the second half of the season the 23 teams are again divided into 3 groups of 8 or 7 teams, but this time by strength. The top 3 or 2 teams from the first groups go into the "Elite Group" to play 14 games were the competition level should be very high.

The next 8 best teams from the 3 groups go into Qualification Group 1, and the final 7 go into Qualification Group 2.



So does the winner of the Elite Group win the Under 21 Competition?
No. In the Elite League the best 3 teams go on to the playoffs which will be up to 2 more competitive games; a semi final and a final. Those knockouts will be at the home team's main ground, so for Manchester United it would be Old Trafford. The home team will be the highest ranked team in the Elite League.

The winner of the Final is the Under 21 winner.

What do the Non-Elite teams have to play for?

There is one place in the Semi Finals for 15 non-Elite teams to go for. The winner of the two Qualification groups meet in the Semi Final playoff at the main ground of the Qualification Group 1 winner. That winner will then play in the Semi Final, against the Elite Group winner at their oppositions main ground. Should they win they'd play in the final again at their opposition's home ground.



What about Reserve players who are over 21?
Any Under 21 side can include three over 21 outfield players, much like the mens Olympics. This will allow the Under 21s to rub shoulders with the best players whilst giving the best players rehabilitation time, but not allow teams to stifle the development of the Under 21s by fielding a team of 30 something reserves.

What's this about the Under 21s playing at Old Trafford?
As said, each team will play 2 of their 14 group home games at that teams main stadium. So for United 2 of their 14 home games will be held at Old Trafford. Should that team get to the Playoff round, the Semi Final round and then the Final; there is opportunity for further games to played at the main stadiums.

When will the games be played?
Mostly on Sunday and Monday evenings. Quote: "The matches will be structured to complement the Premier League game rounds. So, as a first team manager there is a great benefit in knowing that you can have your U21 player on the bench for the first team, but if he doesn’t play then there’s still the option for him to have high quality competitive football that weekend in the U21 League."

What makes the Category One clubs so special?
Quote: "The Category-One clubs, in accordance with category criteria, must spend £1.5m of the club’s own money but will receive £775,000 in supplementary grants. The reasoning is that the best young players will ultimately find themselves at the clubs with the best facilities. Having a nationwide Under-21s league should see the best youth players competing against each other on a weekly basis."

Quote: "Category-One club can come to a lower-league club’s training session and assess a youth product with a view to signing them for a fee of a minimum £3000. [Initial fees will vary but "top up" fees would see the Category-One clubs paying more depending on those players future International and Club appearances and awards.]

The rule has been put in place to facilitate the best youth-players moving to the top development programs but lower-league clubs affirm that it robs them of their assets. Lower-league clubs believe the Elite Player Performance Plan will serve only to widen the gulf between themselves and the top teams and further impede their ability to negotiate deals for the best youth products."
 

gooDevil

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So, looking at the schedule you linked, the last game of the initial group stages takes place on december 17th, exactly 4 months after the first game on August 17th.

As they plan on playing another 14 games in the 2nd group I imagine it will take around the same amount of time, 4 months, taking the league to about April 17th. Add on the playoffs and you're into March, which is a very good length of time, I was worried a 28 game season might leave the kids with no football for more of the season.
 

rcoobc

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This year the FA Youth Cup Final was 10 days before the Champions League final. If we assume that the Under 21 Final will be around the same time; 10 days before the Champions League final (a fairly big assumption I guess) then this year it would be on the 15h of May.

Initial Groups from 17th August to 17th December. A couple of weeks to sort out the next set of fixtures. My guess of 15th of May for the Final was probably pretty off, but I'll go with a Monday near it, 13th of May for the Final and 6th of May for the Semi. So assuming another 4 months is needed it will be around the 29th of December to the 29th of April for the 2nd phase.

My guesses anyway.

Edit - With regards to the schedule, there are 4 breaks for International fixtures (for the Under 21's too) in the first half of the season, but only 0 or 1 in the second half, so that will quicken things up.

Edit 2 - There are a few games being played on the Friday every week but once you get past August the majority of the games get played on Monday. Monday Sep 24th 9 games are played, a week later 7 games are played, the one after 10 games are played. Monday seems like their preferred day for these games, like I said.
 

PS18

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gooDevil said:
So, looking at the schedule you linked, the last game of the initial group stages takes place on december 17th, exactly 4 months after the first game on August 17th.

As they plan on playing another 14 games in the 2nd group I imagine it will take around the same amount of time, 4 months, taking the league to about April 17th. Add on the playoffs and you're into March, which is a very good length of time, I was worried a 28 game season might leave the kids with no football for more of the season.
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Remember there'll still be the Manchester and Lancashire Senior Cups as well - minimum of seven more games there.
 

gooDevil

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Does seem a bit strange that they didn't just put them all in one big league and have everyone play everyone home and away. As the groups were randomly drawn instead of selected by region it doesn't seem to be about keeping teams from having to travel long distances.
 

gooDevil

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mo0 said:
advantages --> new U18 and U21 league changes
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In addition to the launch U21 Premier League Reserve League, football’s EPPP will start to see the light of day. Starting next season, English academies will morph into a four-tier system (Category One through Category Four). Each club will have their youth setup assessed and placed into these aforementioned categories. Following on from whatever categorisation a club receives, their respective U18 setup will play inter-league against other ‘Category X‘ clubs.

From wikipedia:

The new rules mean that a category-A academy can go to any other training ground to watch a player (giving 48 hours notice) and effectively buy the player for a fixed fee starting from £3,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan


That's interesting.
 

rcoobc

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I think it's a fantastic system. Don't forget that up to 7 or 8 teams will have Champions League group games in the first half of the season. There is less need to worry too much about the top 20 year olds getting games in the first half of the season than the second.

3 League Cup games, 6 Europa League games, compare that to the second half when they may have absolutely Nada in terms of those more minor games.
 

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the EPPP *is* interesting, because it dovetails into the leagues that clubs will participate in. clubs not with Cat 1 = Newcastle, Blackburn, Palace, QPR, Wigan
 

rcoobc

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I know everyone will have a go at UEFA for making a Under 19 competition that the Under 19's dont qualify for, but its not a bad idea. Much cheaper to take the under 19's alongside the full team, along with the coaches etc.

I hope they add an Under 22 competition alongside it in the future. And maybe a Europa League version.
 

rcoobc

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Also everyone has a go at the new Under 21 league, but compare it to last years Reserve league: United as Champions, played a total of 10 games against the other 7 best teams in England. Well 11 including the final.

This season, to do the same thing, they would have to play 18 games against the other 7 best teams in England, plus the two playoffs so 20 games.
 

lysglimt

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For anyone interested - here are the goalscorers

West Ham - Reading 3-1
W: Paul McCallum 2, Razak Boukari
R: Edwards

WBA - Everton 3-1
W: Saido Berahino 2, Chris Wood
E: Jake Bidwell

Arsenal - Bolton 3-1(0-1) (Arsenals goalie sent off after about 25 mins)
A: Conor Henderson 2, Thomas Eisfeld
B: Adam Blakeman

Norwich - Blackburn 3-1 (2-1)
N: Jamar Loza 3
B: Raheem Hanley


Stoke - United 0-1 (0-1)
U: Wootton

Newcastle - Tottenham 6-4(5-1)
N: Adam Campbell 3, Curtis Good, Haris Vukcic, Brad Inman
T: Ryan Mason, Yago Falque 2, Cristian Ceballos

Southampton - Sunderland 3-2 (1-2)
So: Sam Hoskins 2, Calum Chambers
Su: Jordan Laidler 2

Aston Villa - Stoke 3-0 (0-0)
A: Michael Drennan, Daniel Johnson og Josh Barton


Chelsea - Manchester C 0-0

Liverpool - Wolves 1-1(1-0)
L: Michael N'goo
W: Sam Winnall¨

Middlesbrough - Crystal Palace 4-0
M: Matt Dolan, Wilson Kneeshaw, Ryan Brobbel, Jarrett Rivers
 

Elliott

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Wasn't Adam Campbell MVP at the Milk Cup? Seems like a player.
 

lysglimt

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He is at least considered one of the biggest striking talents in the country - there were some rumours linking us to him in pre-season.
 

jb8521

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Elliott said:
Wasn't Adam Campbell MVP at the Milk Cup? Seems like a player.
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Yeah he was he's in Newcastles squad for their European game tonight and will be their youngest player in Europe if he plays breaking the record of the one and only..........Andy Carroll
 

gooDevil

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So, I take it there is no set schedule, like it was with the reserves, and you have to just keep an ear out for the next fixture? Anyone know the best place to look for the announcement of the next game?
 

gooDevil

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Thank you, that's fantastic, I may actually manage to see half the games this year with an actual schedule! That's the best thing about this league so far!

A kind man named James_42 was kind enough to PM me this schedule for the whole U21 league as well.

http://www.premierleague.com/conten...ins/barclays-u21-premier-league-2012-2013.pdf

I was so sure there wouldn't be a schedule, since there wasn't for the reserves and I hadn't seen anyone mentioned it so far, I didn't even bother to google for it! For shame.
 
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