United Hour - It Never Rains, It Pours

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Rood, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Oct 17, 2019
    #1

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    This episode you get me , Colm @Duafc and @Raees going over the last 3 matches (Arsenal, AZ Alkmaar and Newcastle) and chatting about the International Break.
    Main discussion is the growing 'Ole Out' shouts and what we think about that.
    Finish off with a preview for the visit of the Scousers on Sunday.






    Podomatic (stream or download): https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/redcastpod/episodes/2019-10-16T21_20_52-07_00
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6BKcIaN8Mcjg6v4iYLnCNY
    iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/united-hour/id902792476
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/manchesterunitedpodcast/
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/United_Hour
  2. Oct 17, 2019
    #2

    edgecutter Full Member

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    Really enjoyed the pod guys, keep it up.
  3. Oct 18, 2019
    #3

    Vault Dweller Full Member

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    Really enjoyable pod again guys, can understand it was difficult to remain positive and upbeat this week. Interesting points on Ole and a lot of points I agreed with.

    Keep up the good work guys.
  4. Oct 18, 2019
    #4

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    cheers lads - ye not easy to see the positives at the moment as clearly we are way off form, but still think a lot of the 'Ole Out' stuff is premature and its sad to see some of our fans turning on him when he is not the major cause of our problems
  5. Oct 18, 2019
    #5

    Vault Dweller Full Member

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    Yeah I think he is struggling but there an awful lot of factors causing us to be as poor as we are. It's probably being extremely naive but I live in hope we can do something against Pool on Sunday.
  6. Oct 18, 2019
    #6

    Philip McManus New Member

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    Was a very good listen. There are plenty of positives to be taken from our current situation. Ed has came out and supported Ole again, reaffirmed the philosophy we are now using will be one for the long haul and we wont be hitting the reset button again hopefully. The players need to step up for Ole and get us through this period starting with Liverpool on Sunday. Not expecting a win or even a draw, all i and most fans wants, is for them players to leave the pitch on sunday having gave their absolute all, win lose or draw. Thats all we ever ask. Get us to January where some signings are possible and we can hopefully salvage something from this season
  7. Oct 18, 2019
    #7

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Well done young man. Hope the Moderators see this and give you a big Like
  8. Oct 18, 2019
    #8

    VanGaalyTime Full Member

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    Nice work on the Pod, boys. I'm agreed that while I don't think I want Ole out right now, I don't think he's a long-term solution. As Colm has said, Ole hasn't responded well to a bad run of form. There have been mitigating circumstances, but he hasn't shown himself to be tactically adept. Happy for him to continue right now, and maybe the results will improve? But will Woodward give Ole the money to spend in January if the current form continues?
  9. Oct 18, 2019
    #9

    Bastian Full Member

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    Even though I don't agree, having you sticking up for Ole makes the pod more enjoyable. Otherwise it would just be like a matchday thread. Come to think of it, a voiced reenactment of a matchday thread could be hilarious...

    An interesting topic for discussion would be the briefings by the club over the last year or so and how things have escalated in the Woodward camp with his latest quotes to staff recently. He seems well riled. His quotes seem quite surreal as did the briefing by the club that we won't be competitive for 3 years.
  10. Oct 18, 2019
    #10

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    Agreed - makes for a more balanced listen.
  11. Oct 18, 2019
    #11

    InspiRED Full Member

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    Great podcast again guys, interesting and informative.

    Kudos to @Raees for sticking to his guns and just saying what I know a lot of us fans are thinking about the situation at Utd. I 100% agree with his 'cold', brutal even assessment of the situation at Utd, for me this is so obv the way to get things done.

    These are the debates that need to be had, but lots of respect to you all for having them in a passionate and forthright but ultimately civil manner.
  12. Oct 19, 2019
    #12

    mariachi-19 Full Member

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    His opinion that reeks of impatience and spoilt sentiment. The fact that he refers to Madrid as a way in which to business is laughable. It’s easy getting away with being shit in a league when there’s a massive disparity in quality between the top 4 big teams and the rest. United in the PL doesn’t get the same privilege...
  13. Oct 19, 2019
    #13

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    You guys agree with eachother too much. I'm looking for some biased dickhead to contrast your opinions. :lol:

    Great podcast overall as usual though.
  14. Oct 19, 2019
    #14

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    It’s not about impatience it is about running a successful football club and maintaining that success without spending decades in the doldrums.

    To do that you need a consistent air of ruthlessness, you can’t be sentimental and assume a Fergie or Busby is always just going to be manufactured by giving any Tom, Dick and Harry an extended time period. You could give someone like Ole or Moyes 10 years and you’d end up in League 1 more likely rather than CL winners so it makes no sense to just prolong the agony out of some flawed sense of feeling superior because we give managers a lot more time in which to tighten the rope around their neck. Also no chance a fool like Woodward gets the chance to have a prolonged period of feckwittery at a club like Madrid - he would be got rid of ASAP.

    Also I seriously don’t get where United fans get this arrogance from when it comes to discussing Real Madrid. They’re the most successful football club in the world by miles and that is no mean feat - you can talk about it being a 2 horse race but the fact they dominate the continent which is not a 2 horse race proves they know a thing or two about football. They get things wrong now and again as does any club but they’re masters at correcting it and not stopping until they forge a new magic formula for success and don’t ever rest on their laurels.
  15. Oct 19, 2019
    #15

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Difficult to compare Spanish and English football historically because they way clubs are run and structured is so different, maybe we will do a pod on it!

    have to mention that for years Barca and Real took the majority of TV cash in Spain whereas in England it is not like that - so its never really been about being well run, just having more money. Its only in recent times that we caught up in spending power due to the rise of the Premier League as a collective. Even for most of Fergie's career he could not hope to match the money in Italy and Spain.

    and dont forget that Real Madrid have had plenty of difficult periods and not a club I would ever want us to emulate (Id prefer to follow a Barca model) - didnt get anywhere near a CL for all of the 00s despite being the biggest spenders in world football and they have actually only won the league once in the past 7 seasons in a 2 horse race! The 3 recent CLs have been a huge turn in their fortunes and largely down to Ronaldo as far as I am concerned.
  16. Oct 19, 2019
    #16

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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    They won it twice in the 00's ?
  17. Oct 19, 2019
    #17

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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    I have been busy recently.
  18. Oct 19, 2019
    #18

    ash_86 Full Member

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    Great pod guys.
  19. Oct 19, 2019
    #19

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    Well my memory of exact years is hazy nowadays but I'm
    Talking about that period from 2002 to 2014 - especially a killer for them and their fans seeing as it crossed over with the best period in Europe for Barca ever.

    Point being that there were a lot of parallels with us at the moment with big money spent on the team but not much success and their biggest rivals winning lots - these recent CL wins have been huge for them but let's not pretend that this is a well run club with constant success.

    Like I said, if we want to look at a model to copy then for me its Barca (with a focus on youth) and certainly not the circus that is Real Madrid.
  20. Oct 19, 2019
    #20

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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    I agree.
  21. Oct 19, 2019
    #21

    Amir Full Member

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    One of the guys in the pod claimed that David Gill was like a football director at the time, but I disagree. I don't see what made him a football man more than Woodward. We did have a football director, though, and that was actually Ferguson, who left a lot of the coaching to his staff. Yeah, he was also the manager, but the decisions he made and is longevity gave us the effect a football director does. Problem is we've been replacing him with people who are only managers and coaches.
  22. Oct 19, 2019
    #22

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    I do think Gill understood football better than Woodward but you are right that Fergie was effectively the DoF - the most important thing was that Gill and Fergie worked well together as a team whereas it's clear there has been a a disconnect between manager and CEO for a while now, especially with Jose.

    There are some signs that Ole has changed things for the better in terms of recruitment with a clear long term strategy. But I still think further change is needed on the football side of the club
  23. Oct 19, 2019
    #23

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    I think I agree with Colm, truth is that nobody really knows what Gill actually did and what his role actually is.

    I think we are all Woodward out but we need to be conscious that we’re blaming a man that we have no idea what he really does and praising Gill a guy we also have no idea what he really did.

    I also agree that the squad has been poor for years. The same players have been given third and fourth chances by Ole after countless seasons of medicrocity.
  24. Oct 19, 2019
    #24

    Amir Full Member

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    I'm quite sure that had we switched Woodward and Gill, Woodward would look just fine working with Fergie. I can't say for certain Gill would have been lost had he been CEO after 2013, he may well have handled things better because Woodward certainly hasn't.

    When you have Ferguson calling the shots, at least the footballing shots, everything else is far easier. Or shall I say, when you have a top class manager in place, everything else is far easier. I don't know how Gill would have handled the job of replacing Fergie.
  25. Oct 20, 2019
    #25

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    The club was a PLC when Gill first became chairman and there was a lot more transparency about who did what at the club than there is today as we are mostly a private company
    So there is plenty of info out there about Gill and the job he did - SAF always praised him, although it's known they had plenty of disagreements as well over recruitment.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...-deserves-his-own-statue-at-Old-Trafford.html
    Mostly they had a good working relationship though (not so with Gill's predecessor Kenyon) and dealing with transfers was a joint decision on both of them with the support of a scouting network.

    Nowadays we are not quite sure who exactly is making decisions about transfers - Woodward is involved, there is also Judge on contract negotiation and Lawlor as chief scout with others reporting to him. The manager will obviously have some say but we dont know who has the final call but we do know that a lot of cash has been wasted on the wrong players
    We do also know that all three of Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho made comments about not getting all the players they wanted and that the club has been trying to revamp the football side of the club and change the recruitment process.
    This summer window was a success in terms of quality but a failure in quantity - we will surely spend in January though but Ole will need better results to get that much time.
  26. Oct 20, 2019
    #26

    Lebowski Full Member

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    Great pod, possibly the most enjoyable listen for a while.

    Slight correction on your DOF chat (apologies if this has already been pointed out, I haven't scoured the thread).

    Colm said that a DOF structure is only really the norm in continental football (and later conceded high level PL teams too).

    It's now become the norm at all levels of the PL. United are one of only three PL teams not to operate with a DoF- the other two are Sheffield United and Newcastle United.

    I don't mean to be a pedant here as I do think it's worth pointing out how much of an anomaly United's current structure is not just when compared to the top European clubs but even compared to your average PL team.

    My own opinions on the subject have been made clear in other threads, but suffice it to say here that I think we're woefully behind the times in terms of football structure. The complete lack of footballing expertise at executive level is a big reason for the two problems you were discussing on this bit of the pod- poor recruitment decisions and managerial hires.

    Anyway, with that small point made, keep up the great work guys. All three of you work excellently together as pundits. Your styles and opinions are different enough to cause debate, but you're all intelligent, erudite and respectful enough for the debate to be informed and interesting, and no discussion sounds like it's disagreement for disagreement's sake.
  27. Oct 20, 2019
    #27

    Duafc Colm Murray

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    That's very interesting - Sean Dyche and Burnley operate on a more sophisticated level than us!

    Big thanks to everyone taking the time to listen and comment, very appreciated.
  28. Oct 20, 2019
    #28

    Sparky Rhiwabon Full Member

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    Good pod as ever but there was one ludicrous comment...

    "Glazers have put a lot of money into the club"

    Have they? Or are they just letting the club keep some of the money it is self generating? How much have Glazers put into the club net of what they have taken out? I suspect it will be a big minus figure. Then compare that with City's owner.
  29. Oct 20, 2019
    #29

    Duafc Colm Murray

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    I mentioned that people are usually more upset by the fact that we generate so much money contrasted to the brass amount we spend, which when you look at it in isolation, looks about on par with the top clubs I believe.

    So I get exactly what you mean and I don't think there's a Glazer 'supporter' on the pod at all. Of course it sticks in the throat that they are just spending our own money and profiting - on the other hand it shows we needn't rely on owners like other clubs and are entirely self sufficient when run well.

    Speaking for myself I've totally worn out the Glazer yapping, I don't think it's overly productive, realistic or relevant any longer and in that way I've made my peace with it, I totally get others still passionately wanting them out though. I just don't see who replaces them.

    Was their take over horrific - yes.
    Have they a record of ruining sporting franchises worldwide - probably.
    Should Uniteds owners invest more with our revenue and brand in mind- as supporters of course we'll want that.

    That said we are in the situation we are in, I don't see a magical fix or owner who could come in and deliver the fan utopia that I just don't think exists for a club like United, outside of the Saudis.

    If you can square away that one then fair enough, I'd rather the Glazers in that particular shit sandwich.
  30. Oct 21, 2019
    #30

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    On a personal level then yes it will be a big minus figure as the club is more than self sufficient so they put nothing in after the initial takeover, but I guess the point is more about the fact that we have spent/wasted shitloads of cash of transfers and wages over recent years so the amount of spending is not really an issue. The problem has been with choosing players and that leads on the discussion about DoF, structure etc where change is still needed.
  31. Oct 21, 2019
    #31

    Sparky Rhiwabon Full Member

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    There must be other owners like City's in the world - I don't see their fans complaining about the Sheikh. It doesn't have to be the Saudi Royals.

    By the way, the new guy is a good addition, good tactical knowledge.
  32. Oct 21, 2019
    #32

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    They dont complain because they were in League 1 relatively recently and now in the CL! Its different for us

    The reality is that there are very few organisations in the world who can afford to buy us so thats why the links are to the Saudis, who also see how UAE and Qatar have improved their global image via football

    But anyway we dont actually need owners to be putting cash in, we already have the highest wage bill in the PL so the problem is not our spending power
  33. Oct 22, 2019
    #33

    Xaviboy New Member

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    Do you all think Ole will stick with the 5-3-2 system as he seen positives with first half on sunday. The 4-2-3-1 we seen last few weeks has been brutal. We need 2 players upfront to at least create some chances
  34. Oct 22, 2019
    #34

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    Hope so, one could argue the injury to Martial forced him to move away from a 2 man strike force.

    Suits Rashford a helluva lot more by not being pinned down centrally and having a CB breathing down his neck. Best I have seen Maguire play too.

    Only issue is full-backs are not the most compatible for this system but it could enhance AWB's attacking game by forcing him to contribute more going forwards.
  35. Oct 23, 2019
    #35

    Rood nostradamus like gloater Scout

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    I would like him to but my gut feeling is that he will revert to the previous system, especially since Martial is back

    Its not the first time he has used that system with split wide forwards either - I think it was vs Spurs last season when it worked well, basically any team with attacking full backs can be exploited in that way.

    A big positive is that it does show that Ole and his team do have some tactical nowse when sticking to the same system has been a valid criticism this season
  36. Oct 25, 2019
    #36

    DVG7 Full Member

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    Excellent podcast gents. You all make your points in a very clear and concise manner and it makes it very easy to listen to.

    On the subject of positivity, I can imagine listening to the podcast in mid March 1991, after a run of 7 straight games without a win and really no immediate truth to any statement along the lines of "Things are about to get better from here". We all know what happened in the years to follow.

    I obviously hope our success returns in the near future and genuinely believe it will, however it would be interesting - say 10 to 15 years from now - to get the opinion of then 25-30 year old supporters who had grown up with a United that DIDN'T dominate and win everything. We have been so spoiled in the last 20 years and it's not our fault that our subconscious pretty much expects success, but these baron years we are having have the potential to churn out some of the most loyal fans we could ever have. Just to prove that from what is right now an unthinkable negative, positivity can stem from it.