Uno Draft: Round 1 - willhse456 vs Himannv

Who will win the match based on all the players at their peaks?


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Enigma_87

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...................................TEAM willhse456............................................................ TEAM Himannv


TACTICS TEAM willhse456

Early on, I decided that I wanted to build a team around Zidane, and every draft I’ve done so far has been with a 4 back formation, so I wanted to try something a bit different.


In attack I have Luis Suarez and Stoichkov. Suarez has proven that he is deadly in a 2 striker formation with an attacking midfielder feeding him behind, in the season that he dragged Liverpool to 2nd place. Stoichkov will have the license to drift out wide and cut inside when he wants to.


Both of my strikers suit Zidane perfectly, with Suarez’s incredible work rate and finishing ability, and he would love finding Stoichkov in space on the left hand side. Added to this, I believe Davids and Schuster gives Zidane a perfect base, in which he won’t need to do much defensive work.


A few might find Schuster odd in a midfield 2, but I wanted to have a link from defence to attack, and I believe he can play in that position. When you consider that Davids, who is incredibly hardworking defensively will be next to him, as well as Thuram and Baresi in close proximity, I think it will work perfectly.


My defence perfectly compliments each other. 3 gritty central defenders, with the centrepiece being Baresi, who will be given license to step forward out of defence. Whilst Nilton isn’t the swashbuckling wingback everyone thinks he is, he definitely did come forward and was a playmaker of sorts from the middle of the park, and his position high up the pitch here would be perfect for him. Thuram on the other side is intelligent enough to know when to drop back, particularly when Baresi and Nilton go forward.

TACTICS TEAM Himannv

Defense

Lev Yashin is probably the best goalkeeper in the history of the sport and he'll be my keeper in this game. The Black Spider is the only goalkeeper in history to have won the Ballon D'Or.



We have three top CBs in Godin, Bergomi, and Shesternyov at the back to nullify the threat of the opponent's attack.

Having said that, make no mistake that this system is built around Lo Zio who plays as the Sweeper. They're all proper defenders and as strong and dominant as they come, but Bergomi is the leader of what is an absolutely immense defensive unit. He is a one club man, a captain, and a legend. A true leader on the pitch and tough as nails.

Godin is a defensive beast, another with great leadership qualities and someone who will thrive in great defensive units like this one. He was so good that he was even nominated for a Ballon D'Or.

Shesternyov is another great leader and hard named. He was nicknamed Ivan the Terrible and is probably the best defender in Soviet football history. He completes this defensive trio and is another who was nominated for the Ballon D'Or.



The two wingbacks, Brehme and Jorginho, also obviously track back and make it a back 5 when defending. They're both proper wingbacks and have both performed that role to great distinction. In this instance I suspect we'll see their attacking talents put to good use.

Brehme, in particular, was so good that he even placed third in Ballon D'Or rankings and is easily one of the best wingbacks of all time.

Jorginho thrived as a wingback when he played in Germany and due to his attacking prowess it was a role that suited him perfectly.




Midfield

Mackay plays as the DM who positions himself in front of the defense and breaks up opposition play. He's the typical destroyer and hard as nails.

Souness is the midfield general who is not only defensively savvy but also is the more mobile of the two. He's tasked with helping out the attack as well, dominating the midfield, and providing a platform for others to shine.

In addition to this, Bergomi also steps up to help with the midfield battle and he aids in ensuring there is more control in the middle of the park.

Kopa is also a key player in this system. He plays as an AM through the middle, but he also drifts wider to the right depending on the play. He's a Ballon D'Or winner and at his peak the best player in the world.



The wingbacks also move up the flanks and attack the opposition. They're not hampered by too much defensive responsibilities in this match and I expect them to provide for the attack.

All in all, I expect to win the midfield battle with the combative players I have and also use Kopa's skill on the ball to dictate things.


Attack

Kaka starts off more on the left, but he drifts into the middle, either as the second striker or further ahead depending on the need. He's a Ballon D'Or winner and at his peak he was nigh on unstoppable and his pace was blinding.

Baggio leads the line and he either plays Kaka and Kopa in or goes for goal himself. He's another Ballon D'Or winner and one of the most versatile offensive players, capable of playing multiple different roles and being brilliant at them all.

 

willhse456

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You can tell we've been partners before when we pick the exact same colours in the formation graphic :lol:

Good luck @Himannv.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Nilton as a wing back in a 3-5-2 again :(

Kudos on playing Bergomi as the sweeper. He played that role with Ferri as a stopper for a season or two for Inter. I can't remember which season exactly, but I did watch a couple of matches of him playing that role very recently.

Edit: Of course, looks a little odd considering Shesterenyov can slot as the sweeper and Bergomi as RCB.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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If I remember correctly, Chumpitaz played the left CB for Peru covering for the atatcking full back.

Probably can swap Chumpitaz and Puyol.
 

willhse456

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Nilton as a wing back in a 3-5-2 again :(

Kudos on playing Bergomi as the sweeper. He played that role with Ferri for a season or two for Inter. I can't remember which season exactly, but I did watch a couple of matches of him playing that role very recently.
I'm not expecting him to bomb up and down the flank, as I've said in the OP, but there is no doubt that he was great at playmaking from midfield areas, and I think his position suits him perfectly here.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I'm not expecting him to bomb up and down the flank, as I've said in the OP, but there is no doubt that he was great at playmaking from midfield areas, and I think his position suits him perfectly here.
In a 3-5-2, I would expect whoever played there to bomb up and down the flank to be honest.

You already have Zidane/Schuster for play making and Davids who will contribute when required (and fecking Baresi). Don't think anymore play making from the centre is required. If anything, there is very little width with Nilton and Thuram.
 

Himannv

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Kudos on playing Bergomi as the sweeper. He played that role with Ferri as a stopper for a season or two for Inter. I can't remember which season exactly, but I did watch a couple of matches of him playing that role very recently.

Edit: Of course, looks a little odd considering Shesterenyov can slot as the sweeper and Bergomi as RCB.
Yes, I decided on picking Bergomi really early and wanted to give him a starring role. I think RCB is a great role for him but I wanted to make him the main man so I had him as the Sweeper. I planned to have two solid players alongside him who can act as a proper CB pairing if and when he steps up into midfield. Shesternyov is a Sweeper as well and leader in his own right so I understand the sentiment there. He's good enough to play as a pure stopper as well from what I've seen of him.

I think Bergomi is a fantastic player who is incredibly intelligent and understands the game perfectly. He was great as an RB when he was younger and had pace. He was fantastic as a stopper when he had to play that role. However, it was his games as a Sweeper that made me think he was a complete defender. You could just see he enjoyed that leadership role, controlling the game, and striding forward with the ball.
 

willhse456

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Initial thoughts:

  • Think it will be a very tight game, interesting that we have both gone for very similar formations.
  • I think my defensive unit is better. Obviously Baresi is better than Bergomi, and the other centre backs on either side are fairly equal. Both my wingbacks are better defensively.
  • Midfield battle will be interesting. Whilst the strength might be on Himannv's side, I think my side are better on the ball with Schuster and Zidane involved. Kopa or Kaka will end up dropping centrally more often than not to make sure the midfield battle is more even.
  • Suarez's record vs Atletico Madrid is very good. 7 goals and 3 assists in 14 appearances. Not sure how many games Godin played in there, but it is clear that he has got the better of him a few times. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/luis-suarez/bilanzdetails/spieler/44352/gegner/13
 

Himannv

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Kaka

Ronaldinho said:
For two, maybe three seasons he was the best player in the world, there was nothing he couldn’t do.
Pirlo said:
I remember how badly we took it as a team when Kaká left Milan. For two or three years he was the best player in the world. There was a point when teams just had no idea how to stop him.
He won the Ballon D'Or in 2007. I think most of us remember his playing against United in the CL that season. He was immense the whole game and that second goal, where he lobbed one player, raced around him, got his head to the ball and dragged it out milliseconds before two defenders crashed into each other trying to get the ball. After that he just moved around the players with pace and almost casually beat VDS and scored.

At his peak, I don't think I've seen a player quite like him. Despite favouring his right foot, he was comfortable enough with his left to score with it and he has good skills and technique. Having said all that, I think his pace was his best quality. He almost flew past people at times and hardly anyone could keep up with him. He wasn't one of those players who try to be flashy for the sake of it and he focussed more on being effective.

I have him on the left here as I think he really liked to cut in from there when attacking. The following video has great examples of how devastating he can be from that side, dribbling with pace and beating pretty much everyone, with great amount of control and efficiency.


I think that injury was just cruel and it robbed us of seeing more of him and probably made his career less impressive to some. At his peak he was simply unplayable and I think any defense will struggle to contain him as he had that X factor in huge games.
 

willhse456

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Kaka





He won the Ballon D'Or in 2007. I think most of us remember his playing against United in the CL that season. He was immense the whole game and that second goal, where he lobbed one player, raced around him, got his head to the ball and dragged it out milliseconds before two defenders crashed into each other trying to get the ball. After that he just moved around the players with pace and almost casually beat VDS and scored.

At his peak, I don't think I've seen a player quite like him. Despite favouring his right foot, he was comfortable enough with his left to score with it and he has good skills and technique. Having said all that, I think his pace was his best quality. He almost flew past people at times and hardly anyone could keep up with him. He wasn't one of those players who try to be flashy for the sake of it and he focussed more on being effective.

I have him on the left here as I think he really liked to cut in from there when attacking. The following video has great examples of how devastating he can be from that side, dribbling with pace and beating pretty much everyone, with great amount of control and efficiency.


I think that injury was just cruel and it robbed us of seeing more of him and probably made his career less impressive to some. At his peak he was simply unplayable and I think any defense will struggle to contain him as he had that X factor in huge games.
I take your Kaka and raise Zinedine Zidane :drool:

It's been mentioned recently how underrated he has been in drafts, but I'm hoping he will make a comeback here. There is a reason why everyone idolises him. In my time watching football (90's onwards) he's been one of my favourite midfielders, his ball control is immense, and weight of passing is just fantastic.

Just watch this video:
 

Himannv

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  • Midfield battle will be interesting. Whilst the strength might be on Himannv's side, I think my side are better on the ball with Schuster and Zidane involved. Kopa or Kaka will end up dropping centrally more often than not to make sure the midfield battle is more even.
I fully expect Kopa to drop into that AM slot. He's possibly one of the best dribblers on this pitch and his creative spark would be useful there as well. As indicated in my OP, he drifts into midfield as well as the right side depending on where the action is.

This is a great video of those not familiar with Kopa:


Here's a great post by @Šjor Bepo on him:

Le Napoléon du Football, Raymond Kopa - one of the greatest players of all time and a Ballon D'Or winner (also once #2 and twice #3), Kopa was renowned for his passing and dribbling as a free-role advanced playmaker - serving as the ideal complement to the more direct Eusébio and Henry.

Kopa had a fantastic ability for dribbling at close quarters and a great intelligence on the pitch which made him a regular on the right wing for Real Madrid when they started to conquer Europe. Along with Rial, Di Stéfano, Puskas and Gento, he was part of one of the most fearsome forward lines in football. The Frenchman used to laugh when asked how much those five players would cost today and said that “it would be impossible to calculate”.

"Raymond Kopa did magic, amazing things that you didn't think possible," recalls teammate Juan Santisteban.

"He was a great player: strong, powerful, skillful," Di Stéfano added. "He was extraordinary, dribbling the ball all over the place."

Kopa once described himself as "the greatest collective individualist in French football." He gave his team relief, the chance to breathe. He created, too. At Madrid, Pepe Santamaría recalled, "There would be moments when we were overwhelmed, under pressure, and he would start to dribble. With him there on the wing, with the ball, we could recover."
https://www.realmadrid.com/en/about-real-madrid/history/football-legends/raymond-kopaszewski
 

Himannv

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@willhse456 I expected you to go with a back 4 when I looked at your squad.

For me the biggest tactical mistake here is playing Thuram and Nilton Santos as wingbacks. They're both great fullbacks, but as wingbacks, they are both completely out of place and neither of them are likely to bomb up and down the flank which gives my wingbacks the initiative (both Brehme and Jorginho are perfectly suited to being wingbacks). It's a case of square pegs in round holes and it just doesn't fit tactically. It hands us the advantage in wide areas.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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@Himannv

How do you see your front 3 operating?

I would imagine all three of them would want an striker to operate around? Someone to make the runs. Its a bit difficult to imagine who is creating and who is finishing.

Also the wing backs. How would they function without a target man to aim for in the box?
 

Himannv

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I'd also like to point out the clear difference in goalkeepers. My opponent had Gordon Banks in his squad and decided to rest him for the next round. I actually went with the best keeper in my squad and I feel it sound count.

No offense to Tim Howard, but comparing Lev Yashin to him is like comparing a flashlight with the sun. Lev Yashin is probably the best goalkeeper in the history of the game and I fancy my attackers to score against Tim Howard, while I think it will take a LOT more to beat the Black Spider.
 

willhse456

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@willhse456 I expected you to go with a back 4 when I looked at your squad.

For me the biggest tactical mistake here is playing Thuram and Nilton Santos as wingbacks. They're both great fullbacks, but as wingbacks, they are both completely out of place and neither of them are likely to bomb up and down the flank which gives my wingbacks the initiative (both Brehme and Jorginho are perfectly suited to being wingbacks). It's a case of square pegs in round holes and it just doesn't fit tactically. It hands us the advantage in wide areas.
Advantage in what sense? They're two of the best defensive fullbacks ever, and the majority of your width is coming from your fullbacks as you're playing with 2 attacking midfielders, so there isn't any real risk of an overload. They're plenty capable of going forward. Thuram is a modern fullback, they always make overlapping runs, whilst Nilton was one of the first fullbacks that came out of defence.

As GSTQ said, there isn't really a focal point in attack, and I can't really see where your goals are coming from, especially against a defensive unit that includes Baresi, Nilton and Thuram.
 

Himannv

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@Himannv

How do you see your front 3 operating?

I would imagine all three of them would want an striker to operate around? Someone to make the runs. Its a bit difficult to imagine who is creating and who is finishing.

Also the wing backs. How would they function without a target man to aim for in the box?
I see the wingbacks moving into more advanced positions and helping with chance creation for the front two. If you're talking about arial chances with crosses into the box, I'd fancy Kaka at 6'1" vs Chumpitaz 5'6" any day of the week. Heck, even Baggio has a few inches on him.

Kopa drifts into the AM position when it makes sense and creates for the front two. He also drifts out to the right as he often did during his playing career.

Kaka either drifts in behind Baggio to play him in or uses his immense pace and makes runs beyond him

Baggio can do it all. He can score goals, lead the line as a striker, drop deeper and play as a no 10 or even drift out to the left. In this case, his job is simple: get on the end of passes and score goals, or drop deeper to play Kaka or Kopa in.

Here's an extract from a post by @MJJ that summarizes his goal scoring exploits and prowess.

In Serie A alone his goalscoring exploits were phenomenal. One of only six men to score over 200 goals in the league, he finished up with a total of 205 goals from 452 games – not bad for a non-striker. More outstanding though, is that an incredible 96 of those goals were decisive for his teams – meaning they were either equalizers or winners.

Scoring over 300 career goals in all competitions, it wasn’t just the quantity, but the quality of strikes – some of the most beautiful ever seen, scored on the domestic, European and International stage. They will live long in the memory of football fans around the world.


Here's the full post as well. It's a great read.

FANTASISTA LEGENDS: ROBERTO BAGGIO



Baggio…oh yes…oh yes…oh yes!!! What a goal by Baggio! That’s the goal they’ve all been waiting for!

The ‘they’, the excitable ITV commentator was referring to, was the whole of Italy during World Cup Italia ‘90, as an entire nation had waited impatiently in anticipation, then watched in expectation, as their latest ‘golden boy’ – a magical fantasista – made himself known to a global audience. Making his first start of the finals, and wearing the no.15 shirt, Roberto Baggio announced himself to the world, gracefully gliding through the Czechoslovakian team from the halfway line, before sending the goalkeeper the wrong way to score. Collapsing to the turf, for a brief moment, all the intense pressures of being world football’s ‘next big thing’ had been lifted; Roberto Baggio had arrived.

In truth, Baggio had ‘arrived’ much earlier. In Italy, he was already a star attraction in Serie A, where he had been lighting up the league for the previous few seasons in the city of Florence, with Fiorentina. His mercurial talent would remain a fixture in the Italian top-flight for the next 14 seasons (playing 18 in total). But for all those who witnessed his magic and the outstanding feats he achieved during this time, the extraordinary thing is, he played the majority of his career suffering with injury. You see, Baggio’s story was almost over before it had even begun.

One of eight children, Roberto Baggio was born in Caldogno in the north-east of Italy, near Vicenza. As a young boy he showed an early interest in football. When not using his parents’ bedroom as a makeshift pitch (where the goals consisted of a double bed and a wardrobe), he was outside, often disappearing until dusk playing with a ball, leaving his father to go searching for him on his bike. The youngster was soon scoring in real goals as his talent was spotted by village club, Caldogno, at just 9 years old. By the age of 11 he was on the radar of nearly every club in Italy, and was soon starting to be hailed as a prodigy after scoring 45 goals in just 26 games. After scoring 6 in one game, scout Antonio Mora took him to Vicenza who paid Caldogno just £300.

The step-up in level made no difference to the now 13 year old Baggio, who hit a whopping 110 goals in 120 youth-team games before being promoted to the first team, aged just 15. Now seeking to emulate his footballing idol – Brazilian fantasista, Zico – his form for Vicenza (then in Serie C-1) during only his third senior season, helped win promotion – but they would have to play in Serie B without their young star. Baggio’s stock had risen to such a level that two Serie A giants began chasing his signature, with Juventus confident of securing a deal. However, a last minute bid of around £1.5million from Fiorentina ensured they won the race.



What should have been a celebration soon turned to tragedy however as just two days before the deal was finalized, Baggio shattered the cruciate ligament in his right knee whilst playing against Rimini. Aged just 18, with the world at his feet, he was victim to a career-threatening injury and was told by doctors he would never play again.

There was cause for optimism however. Fiorentina chose to honour the deal and stood by their new signing, sending him to France for pioneering surgery – thus ensuring a strong bond between club and player that would be hard to break in the future. But these were the darkest days of Baggio’s life. Mentally, they helped define him as a person and gave him a great inner-strength and belief, but physically, the injury would remain with him for the rest of his playing career. His pure love for the game though, would simply not allow him to quit:

I underwent surgery that was very risky at the time. They had to drill through my kneecap and reattach all the ligaments with 220 internal stitches. I am allergic to the most powerful painkillers, so I was in absolute agony day and night for months afterwards – but I held on because of my passion for the game.

Baggio missed nearly all of the next two seasons through injury, and in truth he never fully recovered. Upon retirement he stated that if he were to play only when he didn’t feel pain, he would have stepped on the pitch “only two or three times a year”. The incredible will he showed to ‘never give up’ also came from a more surprising source during his recovery, which again marked him out as being different from the rest.

In a staunchly Catholic country, he converted to Buddhism. At just 21 years old he made the choice whilst in the eye of the public, joining the Soka Gakkia order which emphasizes the importance of self-motivation over blind obedience. Its teachings also encourage contribution to the well-being of friends, family, community and the promotion of peace, culture and education. Followers are devoted to ‘inner transformation that enables people to develop themselves and take responsibility for their lives.’ Baggio would eventually have one of the order’s mantras embroidered on his captain’s armband.

Once playing in the famous purple of Fiorentina, Baggio quickly became the fans idol and embarked on a happy couple of years. He made his debut against Sampdoria and scored his first goal against the champions elect, Napoli in 1987. He continued the next three seasons in superb fashion as his style of play delighted all who watched. Even for a fantasista, he scored at a rapid rate with almost a-goal-every-other-game ratio.



But it wasn’t the quantity of the goals which stood out – it was the quality and variety. Spectacular, and from all angles and areas, he’d score curlers, volleys, dribbles through the defence (including the keeper), free-kicks, penalties and one-on-ones – finishing was never a problem for Baggio. So natural and cool in front of goal, the Italian’s said he had ‘ice in his veins’. But it wasn’t just goals – as a fantasista he also created so much more. This led former Argentine and Viola midfielder Miguel Montuori to famously claim in the ’88-’89 season that Baggio was:

…more productive than Maradona. He is without doubt the best number 10 in the league.

A call-up to the Azzurri naturally followed, making his debut in 1988 versus Holland, and scoring his first international goal five months later during his first start against Uruguay with a trademark free-kick. At the end of that season he married his childhood sweetheart Andreina, and it was also during this period he was christened with one of the most famous nicknames in the game. Tying his already long hair at the back ‘Il Divin Codino’ was born – the divine ponytail.

Firing Fiorentina to the UEFA Cup final but narrowly losing to Juventus, Baggio was now a huge star in Italy and the rest of Europe was taking note. To the disbelief of the Viola faithful however he was sold, against his will, for a world record transfer fee to Juventus, just prior to the 1990 World Cup finals. The record £8 million move sparked three days worth of riots in the city of Florence, such was the fans disappointment of selling their idol to a hated rival. The ‘match of poison’ would now take on even greater significance. Roberto was preparing for the finals with the Azzurri at Coverciano but was sickened by the violence, and left feeling betrayed by the club’s stance to portray him as the villain in seeking the move.



Baggio would ensure the truth was known at the next meeting between the two clubs however, as the Italian saying goes: Sempre nel mio cuore – you’ll always be in my heart. Proving this to the Fiorentina fans, he refused to take a penalty for Juventus against them (he was the designated taker), which Juve duly missed. He was then substituted but left the pitch at the Artemio Franchi stadium clutching a thrown Viola scarf.

After his world record move, Baggio had an initial frosty relationship with the Juventus faithful – the penalty incident in Florence hadn’t exactly endeared him to his new public. However his sensational abilities soon won them over. During his five seasons in Turin Baggio was confirmed to be what many already knew – he was the greatest player on the planet and thus became a global superstar, destined for legendary status. In 1993 he was voted World and European Player of the Year after leading Juventus to UEFA Cup glory (his first major trophy) and in 1995 he finally won the Serie A title (alongside a Coppa Italia).

Such was his play – in conjuring fantasy on a football pitch at a time of ever growing athleticism and dour tactics – fans around the globe adored him. He was the reference point to everything still magical in the game, a reminder to when skill ruled over physicality. A perfect example of the number 10 shirt; a symbol for the fantasista.

The angels sing in his legs, former Fiorentina boss Aldo Agroppi famously said, such was his beautiful style of play.

The emergence of Alessandro Del Piero, alongside the ‘tactical differences’ coach Marcelo Lippi wanted to implement, led to the sale of Baggio to AC Milan.



Although he won his second Serie A title here, he was never fully appreciated – again suffering with injuries, and against the coaches who preferred the more athletic, over natural skill. The number 18 shirt on his back looking as alien as the great fantasista himself sitting on the bench. His frustration growing at the way football was losing its artistry, Baggio stated:

It’s better to have 10 disorganised people who can play football than 10 organised people who just run.

Disillusioned by the big clubs, Roby chose mediocre Bologna to showcase his talents next. Feeling ‘born again’, complete with a closely shaven head and unshackled from the tactical leash, he was given free reign and promptly had his best scoring season in Serie A, hitting the net 22 times in just 30 matches. Such was his form, a recall to the national team for the 1998 World Cup was preceded by one last ‘big’ move to Inter. Initially things looked promising at his second spell in Milan. However once again injuries, along with the return of coaching nemesis Marcelo Lippi, ensured Baggio had another miserable time. After refusing to be ‘a spy in the dressing room’ for Lippi, the coach tried to ‘destroy’ him. Baggio wrote in his autobiography:

The Lippi I had at Inter declared war on me. The problem was that even when I didn’t play, I was always on people’s lips whereas Lippi, try as he might, just couldn’t make people like him. He wanted to destroy me, but he didn’t succeed.

Baggio recounted an example of the coaches animosity towards him during a training session:

I played a 40-yard pass to free Bobo Vieri, who scored. He turned round and applauded me, so did Panucci. It was a normal thing between team-mates but Lippi went crazy. ‘Vieri, Panucci, what the feck do you think you’re doing? Do you think this is the theatre? We’re not here to clap each other!’

Roby left Inter with his head held high however and with some positive memories. He scored two late goals to beat Real Madrid in the Champions League, and in his final appearance versus Parma – a Champions League qualification playoff – he scored two wonder strikes to ensure victory and progression for the club.



Many thought the final chapter in the Baggio story had been written when he chose little Brescia as his final destination. In realizing their coup of capturing an historic great, coach Carlo Mazzone set about building a team around the mercurial number 10. However, yet another early injury kept Baggio for months. On his return, Brescia were at the foot of the table – but not for long.

Inspiring his team, Roby fired in 10 goals (not to mention many assists) in an incredible end of season run which saw Brescia finish 7th in Serie A and qualify for the Intertoto Cup. For the next three seasons Baggio enjoyed some of the best form of his career, scoring many wonder-strikes and creating with the vision only a true great can see. Every season Baggio played, Brescia remained in Serie A – something that had rarely happened to the provincial club (indeed, the season after his retirement they were relegated),

And so it came, on the 16th May 2004 at the San Siro, Roberto Baggio played his last ever game versus former club, AC Milan. The capacity crowd, knowing the significance of the event, had come in their droves to bid a fond farewell to a player who transcended club loyalties. With banners dedicated to him in every corner of the stadium, both home and away fans chanted his name constantly whilst applauding his every touch. With 84 minutes played, the number 10 was held aloft. As he walked off the pitch he was given one of the warmest standing ovations from the crowd, any player had ever received. Teary-eyed, he applauded back, and was embraced with heartwarming affection by the opposition captain; friend and former team-mate Paolo Maldini. As he disappeared down the tunnel, the world of football had just witnessed the last of the true fantasista.

Baggio’s playing career was full of contradictions; he was a paradox. A character which such strong beliefs and confidence, yet there remained a fragility to him. For all the immense talent which would mark him down as one of the greatest in the history of the game, he always seemed to be fighting against an ‘enemy’ – whether that would be injuries, coaches or just fate, his fragility only served to endear him to the public as he battled the odds whilst remaining true to the spirit of the number 10 shirt. He approached everything with great humility despite his fame and stature, and his humble, friendly manner ensured he was also much-loved by fellow professionals and team-mates throughout his career. This is a player who auctioned off his winning Ballon d’Or to give proceeds to the victims of a flooding disaster, who campaigns for humanitarian aid and vowed to fight world hunger and disease stating it “a moral obligation”.



His exploits for the national team, spanning three World Cup Finals (scoring in all – the only Italian ever to do this) also contributed to Baggio’s popularity around the globe. From scoring that goal in Italia’90, he almost single-handedly dragged an average Italian side to the final in USA’94, scoring five goals (all in the knockout stages) before missing that penalty, for which he is most unfairly remembered – despite both Franco Baresi and Danielle Massaro already missing during the shoot-out, and despite playing half-fit after suffering injury during the semi-final victory. He later admitted:

Even if I’d have had to play with one leg [in the Final], I would have done.

Somewhat banishing that penalty ghost, he scored a decisive spot-kick during France’98 to give Italy a late equaliser against Chile, as well as scoring in the shoot-out versus hosts and eventual champions, France. All in all, Il Divin Codino played 16 times in World Cup Finals, scoring 9 times (a joint record), and was only ever eliminated from the competition via penalty shoot-outs – finishing third, and as a runner-up in two of those tournaments. Capped by the Azzurri only 56 times whilst scoring 27 goals, his infamous penalty miss came at a time when he was at the peak of his powers. The unfair blame placed in his shoulders initially, by then coach Arrigo Sacchi led to many years left out in the wilderness. Just as the big clubs had done, the national team never truly appreciated his talents, especially post ’94.

One Italian best summed up the treatment of their most gifted ever player, when he wrote this upon his retirement:

Italy loved you, Baggino, but it also obscured and humiliated you.

Technically perfect, his penalties, free-kicks, vision, skilful dribbling and consistency in front of goal made him a player easy to adore. He never enjoyed the success his talents deserved at club or international level but in ability, creativity and fantasy alone, Baggio deserves his place amongst the all-time greats. Many footballers may have bigger trophy cabinets, but very few have been adored as many, worldwide. In FIFA’s global internet poll in 2000 to choose the greatest player of the 20th century, Baggio came 4th behind Maradona, Pele and Eusebio.

In Serie A alone his goalscoring exploits were phenomenal. One of only six men to score over 200 goals in the league, he finished up with a total of 205 goals from 452 games – not bad for a non-striker. More outstanding though, is that an incredible 96 of those goals were decisive for his teams – meaning they were either equalizers or winners.

Scoring over 300 career goals in all competitions, it wasn’t just the quantity, but the quality of strikes – some of the most beautiful ever seen, scored on the domestic, European and International stage. They will live long in the memory of football fans around the world.



These incredible feats and magical memories were provided by a true great. How many other so called ‘greats’ had to fight against so many obstacles throughout their careers, being written off unfairly before consistently proving the doubters wrong and providing inspiration to others? A player that by rights, could have retired in 1985 due to his horrific injury, but instead chose to suffer the pain throughout his glittering career, all for the love of the game.

All that’s left to say is ‘Grazie Roby’, the finest fantasista of them all!
 

MJJ

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I see the wingbacks moving into more advanced positions and helping with chance creation for the front two. If you're talking about arial chances with crosses into the box, I'd fancy Kaka at 6'1" vs Chumpitaz 5'6" any day of the week. Heck, even Baggio has a few inches on him.

Kopa drifts into the AM position when it makes sense and creates for the front two. He also drifts out to the right as he often did during his playing career.

Kaka either drifts in behind Baggio to play him in or uses his immense pace and makes runs beyond him

Baggio can do it all. He can score goals, lead the line as a striker, drop deeper and play as a no 10 or even drift out to the left. In this case, his job is simple: get on the end of passes and score goals, or drop deeper to play Kaka or Kopa in.

Here's an extract from a post by @MJJ that summarizes his goal scoring exploits and prowess.

In Serie A alone his goalscoring exploits were phenomenal. One of only six men to score over 200 goals in the league, he finished up with a total of 205 goals from 452 games – not bad for a non-striker. More outstanding though, is that an incredible 96 of those goals were decisive for his teams – meaning they were either equalizers or winners.

Scoring over 300 career goals in all competitions, it wasn’t just the quantity, but the quality of strikes – some of the most beautiful ever seen, scored on the domestic, European and International stage. They will live long in the memory of football fans around the world.


Here's the full post as well. It's a great read.
Yeah not really seeing the problem with baggio as a sole striker being supported by kaka and kopa, baggio has the quality to lead the line easily. And if you want a real world example of how the three might operate see mane, firmino,salah where neither of the trio is a conventional striker.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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Agree that Chumpitaz and Puyol should be switched. That would balance the defense more imo. Otherwise though that Wilsh side is also incredibly strong without any of the GOAT cards. Himan did well but I can't see any way Wilsh loses this one.
 

willhse456

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Are people making a big deal out of Puyol and Chumpitaz being on the wrong sides? Unfortunately I wasn't aware that Chumpitaz was purely left sided, and could easily be amended.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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Are people making a big deal out of Puyol and Chumpitaz being on the wrong sides? Unfortunately I wasn't aware that Chumpitaz was purely left sided, and could easily be amended.
Naw not a big deal for me. Just the only tiny, minor thing I'd change about your side. Its superbly constructed imo and definitely wins this one.
 

Enigma_87

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Are people making a big deal out of Puyol and Chumpitaz being on the wrong sides? Unfortunately I wasn't aware that Chumpitaz was purely left sided, and could easily be amended.
They definitely should be the other way around. Puyol is set on RCB and Chumpitaz is more LCB.

That being said it's not a blemish on your team. Definitely fantastic one and my favorite from the first round.
 

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Will's is spoilt for choices at CB. Have no idea what Puyol is doing there. Santos and Thuram are not wingbacks and would be better in back 4 anyway.

Shesternyov and Bergomi should be swapped. Rate Shesternyov as sweeper more than a RCB and vice versa holds good for Bergomi. Kaka/Baggio are very similar players and it's not a complimentary partnership. Lack of a pure goalscorer who can hold up the ball is a big drawback.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Santos and Thuram are not wingbacks and would be better in back 4 anyway.
This. Going forward, I would change it into a 4231 rather than a 3-5-2

It doesn't get better than Nilton Chumpitaz Baresi Thuram. I'd gladly take that to the final.
 

willhse456

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This. Going forward, I would change it into a 4231 rather than a 3-5-2

It doesn't get better than Nilton Chumpitaz Baresi Thuram. I'd gladly take that to the final.
Perhaps I screwed up a bit by making it overly complicated, but I still believe my team has more than enough to win here.

If there were genuine wide threats as well as his two fullbacks then I could understand, but Jorginho is getting a bit overrated and is nowhere near the level of Nilton. Brehme is good going forward, but then Thuram is incredible defensively, so I think they cancel each other out.

However I think centrally my team is just overpowering.

Mackay and Souness are good defensively, but do they really match up to Schuster and Davids in terms of passing and creativity, especially when you add Zidane into the mix, who was no lightweight. Davids vs Souness would be an interesting battle in the middle of the park, but I think Davids has the edge.

I think my front 3 has a better balance too. Stoichkov drifting out to the left, occupying the space left behind by Jorginho, whilst Suarez is a tireless striker, who is also very creative. Zidane has a great platform behind him to cause chaos and I think he would love playing in this set up. I dont think the opposition is very well balanced up top, and added to that they're up against one of the greats in Baresi.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Thanks for the answer about the attack Himannv, but I am still not convinced about that team without a proper No 9. I am all for playing Baggio alone as I have done that myself too, but in this setup, I can't wrap my head around it.

Will gets my vote as apart from the wingbacks, the team looks sorted to me.
 

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If there were genuine wide threats as well as his two fullbacks then I could understand, but Jorginho is getting a bit overrated and is nowhere near the level of Nilton. Brehme is good going forward, but then Thuram is incredible defensively, so I think they cancel each other out.
The whole point of a wingback is to provide a more attacking outlet, while also having defensive stability. The key to running a back three is mainly how free your wingbacks are to attack. When you have players who are much more suited to being fullbacks in a back 4 than being wingbacks, you'll find that their lack of mobility at getting up and down a flank ends up being exposed.

Your fullbacks are excellent, but they're fullbacks and not suited to working a flank on their own. As fullbacks I think you'll see that they end up being more defensive, which allows my wingbacks to attack more. As such, my team is more suited to this formation than yours is and there's no getting around that.

However I think centrally my team is just overpowering.

Mackay and Souness are good defensively, but do they really match up to Schuster and Davids in terms of passing and creativity, especially when you add Zidane into the mix, who was no lightweight. Davids vs Souness would be an interesting battle in the middle of the park, but I think Davids has the edge.
I don't really agree that we get overpowered in midfield at all. My midfield is, simply put, a lot more physical than yours is. Schuster is more of an AM than a CM and Davids has a lot of work to do there. In fact, it would probably be completely overrun if you didn't have Baresi helping out.
 

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Thanks for the answer about the attack Himannv, but I am still not convinced about that team without a proper No 9. I am all for playing Baggio alone as I have done that myself too, but in this setup, I can't wrap my head around it.

Will gets my vote as apart from the wingbacks, the team looks sorted to me.
Baggio has played as a striker on numerous occasions, including a World Cup final. Not sure how anyone can suggest that he doesn't cut it tbh.

Both teams have good attackers and great defenses, but if any of my attackers get a chance at goal against Tim Howard, we more than likely score. Lev Yashin will be far more difficult to beat.

People look at defenses and avoid including the goalkeepers into the equation for some reason. They're just as vital in matches like this, and Tim Howard vs Lev Yashin is the biggest mismatch in this game.

He took a risk with leaving Gordon Banks on the bench, but it's not going to cost him if people just keep ignoring goalkeepers all the time.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Baggio has played as a striker on numerous occasions, including a World Cup final. Not sure how anyone can suggest that he doesn't cut it tbh.
Deserves a more detailed answer. I will take some time out tomorrow. It's Pubg time now.
 

harms

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Yeah, that back five thing has to change, what a weird pair of wingbacks. Which version of Schuster is it, @willhse456?
 

Zlatan 7

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I voted for team willhse earlier, I preferred his front 3, liked baresi at the back.

I’m unsure now of his wingbacks and really don’t like Tim Howard in goal, I agree that keepers should make a difference, it never seems to be mentioned. It seems someone could play tony from down the park and it’s no game changer. Tim Howard should be questioned here as a serious weak link in a vital part of the field. I came close to changing my vote but will read the thread again first.
 

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I'd also like to point out the clear difference in goalkeepers. My opponent had Gordon Banks in his squad and decided to rest him for the next round. I actually went with the best keeper in my squad and I feel it sound count.

No offense to Tim Howard, but comparing Lev Yashin to him is like comparing a flashlight with the sun. Lev Yashin is probably the best goalkeeper in the history of the game and I fancy my attackers to score against Tim Howard, while I think it will take a LOT more to beat the Black Spider.
Decides the game for me.

Two fantastically matched teams then you see Tim Howard there.
 

Indnyc

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Don’t like the wingbacks for @willhse456

There simply isn’t going to be enough attacking threat from the wide areas to make the 3–5-2. Seems a bit square pegs round holes situation

For @Himannv I think it would work better with Bergomi as RCB and Shesternyov as the sweeper

Really two solid teams for me though and have voted himannv for now. Might change based on discussions
 

willhse456

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I voted for team willhse earlier, I preferred his front 3, liked baresi at the back.

I’m unsure now of his wingbacks and really don’t like Tim Howard in goal, I agree that keepers should make a difference, it never seems to be mentioned. It seems someone could play tony from down the park and it’s no game changer. Tim Howard should be questioned here as a serious weak link in a vital part of the field. I came close to changing my vote but will read the thread again first.
Come on, Tim Howard isn't some chump, let's not get swayed here. You don't get 400 Premier League appearances by being pub level.

He was also in the PFA Premier League team of the year in 03/04, and has the record for highest amount of saves in a World Cup game.

Yes he's not Yashin level, but it doesn't matter as they're not directly against each other in the same sense that Zidane is up against Mackay or Baggio is up against Baresi.
 

Zlatan 7

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Come on, Tim Howard isn't some chump, let's not get swayed here. You don't get 400 Premier League appearances by being pub level.

He was also in the PFA Premier League team of the year in 03/04, and has the record for highest amount of saves in a World Cup game.

Yes he's not Yashin level, but it doesn't matter as they're not directly against each other in the same sense that Zidane is up against Mackay or Baggio is up against Baresi.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make out that he was a chump, he was a decent keeper. I just think someone of his level in any other position would be called out a lot more.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make out that he was a chump, he was a decent keeper. I just think someone of his level in any other position would be called out a lot more.
Aye, much better players than Tim Howard have been called out as weak links in all-time drafts. It can get depressing sometimes seeing very good players being dismissed as scrubs, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and when the opposition is fielding Lev Yashin the quality differential becomes stark.

Voted for @Himannv , despite thinking that Willhse was the overall favourite after the initial drafting. Aside from the GK issue, Brehme and Jorginho look like better fits as the primary width providers than Nilton/Thuram. A narrow setup isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, and Willhse has plenty of craft there to unlock a defence in Zidane and Schuster as well as a good cutting edge with Stoichkov and Suarez, but Himannv looks particularly strong defending those central areas with Souness and Mackay shielding a quality defence.

Baggio has played as a striker on numerous occasions, including a World Cup final. Not sure how anyone can suggest that he doesn't cut it tbh.
He started that match playing alongside a more traditional CF in Massaro in fairness. Baggio is probably my favourite player ever so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in any situation, but his best form was invariably playing off a powerful centre forward like Vieri/Vialli/Ravanelli/Hubner/Kennet Andersson. How much of that was merely due to the tactical orthodoxy at the time is the real question, as he seems to have so many of the attributes you'd look for in an ideal False 9.
 

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Not sure why people put Baresi in 3 at the back unless you're going full Bepo and playing against Tuppet GOAT attack with 10 votes behind in the start. He would make Phil Jones look great, let alone Chumpitaz. Would also prefer someone more positionally astute then Davids in that midfield and let him harass the opposition. But, these are more down to my personal taste, not so big issues really... Thuram as a WB (and to smaller extent Nilton) is though.

Can see Baggio as a false 9 work trying to open routes for Kaka and Kopa, especially against 3 man defence. No need for WB in such system also, but overall Himmanv team just works a bit better for me.
 

willhse456

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Not sure why people put Baresi in 3 at the back unless you're going full Bepo and playing against Tuppet GOAT attack with 10 votes behind in the start. He would make Phil Jones look great, let alone Chumpitaz. Would also prefer someone more positionally astute then Davids in that midfield and let him harass the opposition. But, these are more down to my personal taste, not so big issues really... Thuram as a WB (and to smaller extent Nilton) is though.

Can see Baggio as a false 9 work trying to open routes for Kaka and Kopa, especially against 3 man defence. No need for WB in such system also, but overall Himmanv team just works a bit better for me.
I understand your points, tried to experiment a bit and really have Zidane as the focal point in the team, but it hasn't worked as well as I hoped it would have done.

I really do think my team is being underestimated here though. I have the two best players in the pitch by a distance (Baresi, Zidane), and Zidane has the perfect pocket of space behind Mackay and Souness to do his thing. If one of those two drop off to man mark him, then Schuster is free and also has the ability to unlock the defence.
 

Zlatan 7

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I don’t think it’s been underestimated. The players there are quality. Your wingbacks and keeper have been questioned and probably lost you votes.

I almost changed my vote but I think you have a stronger attack against a weaker defence so left my vote as it was. I’ll be honest though, Tim Howard did nearly sway me.
 

Jim Beam

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I understand your points, tried to experiment a bit and really have Zidane as the focal point in the team, but it hasn't worked as well as I hoped it would have done.

I really do think my team is being underestimated here though. I have the two best players in the pitch by a distance (Baresi, Zidane), and Zidane has the perfect pocket of space behind Mackay and Souness to do his thing. If one of those two drop off to man mark him, then Schuster is free and also has the ability to unlock the defence.
Zidane-Schuster-Stoichkov-Suarez is absolutely brilliant on the other side, so you certainly have a point.

It comes down to personal preference really. I can fully understand people who will give that front four (or your team in overall) the edge here.