Urgent need for a defensive midfielder?

[Gerald G]

Is it just me or is a defensive midfielder the most important signing for us right now?

I really think it's glaringly obvious how a good DM will improve our side defensively. While our defenders can be improved, I think a DM will actually improve us more than a CB for example (a CB is still required).

A lack of a top DM hinders us when we're trying to close out games, exposes our defence and prevents us from having control in games at times. There are games we've played this season where I think each defender has performed fine, yet we have still conceded a couple of goals. It had baffled me a little before, but it's obvious that the lack of a quality DM is impeding this side. Peak Matic would be ideal and just think about when Matic is on top form - look how assured the team looks from a defensive standpoint (even cast your mind to just after the first lockdown). I also think a top quality DM helps us when we're playing out from the back - it's not McTominay's strong point.

I like McTominay as a player but he isn't a #6. Fred isn't a good enough DM and Matic's legs are going. To me, it is so obvious that a DM is required more than any defender (LB, RB or CB). I actually wanted Partey last summer as I think he would have been perfect, but a #6 must be top of our agenda in January or in the summer.

 

[Ekeke]

We've needed a DM who is actually good at DM things since Ander left. We've got a bunch of players who can play there who have some extras but nobody who does the basics well and actually protects the CBs

 

[jderbyshire]

We've needed a DM who is actually good at DM things since Ander left. We've got a bunch of players who can play there who have some extras but nobody who does the basics well and actually protects the CBs

We've needed one since Hargreaves left.

 

[Ekeke]

We've needed one since Hargreaves left.

Hargreaves couldnt do it either thats why he had to play at fullback. Fletcher did it better than him

 

[Jev]

Yeah, I think Fred has his uses but looking at our best XI, he's the obvious player to improve upon. Tenacious, energetic, hard-working but not reliable enough as a passer or intelligent enough tactically to organise defensive pressing or attacking moves. Ultimately not quite good enough to be United's first-choice in a key possession.

 

[Bastian]

We've needed one since Carrick's peak.

Fixed.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

We need a CB far more.

 

[lex talionis]

We definitely need a DM more than a CB. A proper DM (McT just isn’t one) would have closed down Barnes. The second goal today goes on Tuanzebe, who’s still in development.

I don’t think anyone here believes we’re going to drop Maguire for a new CB. And Lindelof actually has been putting in solid performances this season. Neither are world class, but are we really going to spend 70m to replace either when we have a glaring hole at DM?

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

We've needed a DM who is actually good at DM things since Ander left. We've got a bunch of players who can play there who have some extras but nobody who does the basics well and actually protects the CBs

Ander was no better as a DM than Fred. Both good tacklers that run like mad but are positionally clueless. We've needed a DM since the first sign of Matic's legs being shot.

And yes OP I agree, because a complete DM at the base of our midfield would allow Ole to form the combination of players he wants around him, instead of having to always sacrifice either creativity and calmness in possession (sitting Pogba or VDB) or defensive work-rate and industry (McFred). It means we are always lacking balance, but often times we can play around it through sheer quality especially on the break with our forwards and Bruno.

 

[Ekeke]

Ander was no better as a DM than Fred. Both good tacklers that run like mad but are positionally clueless. We've needed a DM since the first sign of Matic's legs being shot.

And yes OP I agree, because a complete DM at the base of our midfield would allow Ole to form the combination of players he wants around him, instead of having to always sacrifice either creativity and calmness in possession (sitting Pogba or VDB) or defensive work-rate and industry (McFred). It means we are always lacking balance, but often times we can play around it through sheer quality especially on the break with our forwards and Bruno.

Completely wrong

Ander made many decisive interceptions and tackles on the edge of the box, very important defensive contributions. He also tracked into his own box to clear the ball and was there to bail out his CBs at times. On top of that he got forward and scored some important goals and was always one of our top players in each big match
There were comments from posters suggesting he couldnt play on the ball but he actually contributed far more in attack than Fred ever did.



Fred cant even track back to fill in for a fullback properly, players run the ball past him with more success than he has tackling them and he doesn't pose any goal threat. Anywhere but right in the middle of the pitch he's useless

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I think if Pogba is going the most upgradable part of our team is the fred / McTom axis. It is better than most fans will say but could be upgraded clearly

 

[RedIan]

We definately need one, whether we need more than a centre half who can actually defend is debatable. Our defence is so leaky.... Matic is on his last legs, MCT can be brilliant one game then average for the next 3 which is not good enough.. Freds a workhorse but lacks quality in his passing And gets caught in possession far to often.
a midfielder who can defend but also pass and work box to box Keane style would make all the difference.

 

[AneRu]

I think we need a Carrick clone ASAP because Matic is close to being done whilst none of McTominay, Fred or Donny fulfill the requirements, they are box to box players and the former two have inconsistent technical skills.

McFred results in us sacrificing control of the match for defensive stability but individually they aren't assured defensively and both could do wonderfully next to a conductor like Carrick.

 

[RoyH1]

Yes, we need one very badly and there's not too many quality ones on the market. We need a CB badly too.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Say all you want about signing a DM but we had 3 defenders in the box against the only player in the box and it so happens to be Vardy and the result was we conceded. Something needs to be done about this.

 

[andersj]

Is it just me or is a defensive midfielder the most important signing for us right now?

I really think it's glaringly obvious how a good DM will improve our side defensively. While our defenders can be improved, I think a DM will actually improve us more than a CB for example (a CB is still required).

A lack of a top DM hinders us when we're trying to close out games, exposes our defence and prevents us from having control in games at times. There are games we've played this season where I think each defender has performed fine, yet we have still conceded a couple of goals. It had baffled me a little before, but it's obvious that the lack of a quality DM is impeding this side. Peak Matic would be ideal and just think about when Matic is on top form - look how assured the team looks from a defensive standpoint (even cast your mind to just after the first lockdown). I also think a top quality DM helps us when we're playing out from the back - it's not McTominay's strong point.

I like McTominay as a player but he isn't a #6. Fred isn't a good enough DM and Matic's legs are going. To me, it is so obvious that a DM is required more than any defender (LB, RB or CB). I actually wanted Partey last summer as I think he would have been perfect, but a #6 must be top of our agenda in January or in the summer.

I agree. Was even a bit envious of Leicester today. I know a lot of fans like Ndidi and see him as a dream target, but I would actually prefer Tielesman. As the OP say, we need someone who can help us control a game. Tielesman likes to get stuck in and has the potential to control a game. Still only 23. I think Fred and McTominay would look better next to a player like that.

 

[Ekeke]

I agree. Was even a bit envious of Leicester today. I know a lot of fans like Ndidi and see him as a dream target, but I would actually prefer Tielesman. As the OP say, we need someone who can help us control a game. Tielesman likes to get stuck in and has the potential to control a game. Still only 23. I think Fred and McTominay would look better next to a player like that.

But he plays next to Ndidi so he doesnt have as much defensive responsibility as Ndidi is a great ball winner and lets his partner concentrate more on what he does with the ball. He wouldnt have that here. He doesnt have someone to do the majority of the defensive stuff, which is where we were exposed today with McTominay and Fred both coming up short doing the defensive responsibilities of a DM. He'd be yet another like Fred and Pogba who needs someone else to do the serious defending.

I'm not saying he isnt a better choice than either player, but we have plenty of that type already and we dont have the type of DM who enables them to play

 

[Litch]

....... If you were in prison for the last 5 years and came out to see that Liverpool midfield, you would not say that's a 2x CL finals and Prem winners? Our midfield is fine if he played Pogs and Fred, and he bought a world CB.

 

[Kajus]

Yeah, I think Fred has his uses but looking at our best XI, he's the obvious player to improve upon. Tenacious, energetic, hard-working but not reliable enough as a passer or intelligent enough tactically to organise defensive pressing or attacking moves. Ultimately not quite good enough to be United's first-choice in a key possession.

For all his flaws, he’s still our second best midfielder. Which one of our midfielders (apart from Bruno) do you actually think is better than him?

 

[Litch]

I agree. Was even a bit envious of Leicester today. I know a lot of fans like Ndidi and see him as a dream target, but I would actually prefer Tielesman. As the OP say, we need someone who can help us control a game. Tielesman likes to get stuck in and has the potential to control a game. Still only 23. I think Fred and McTominay would look better next to a player like that.

That's not his game and Leicester is the sum of all the parts, not just single ones. Remember we bought Harry from them and he doesn't look the same. I think that's true of any Leicester player including Vardi as they play specifically to his strengths

 

[Red_toad]

Aren’t we signing the a new 19 year old South American who’s the greatest midfielder who’s ever lived?

But to be honest Ole puts Matic in that team today, we get more control, McTommy simply couldn’t cope with Leicesters pressing, then got disheartened and vanished from the game. I actually felt sorry for Fred staring alongside McTommy and James today, he put so much effort into our midfield.

 

[eire-red]

Yes but whoever fills that holding role also needs to be able to contribute on the ball. Bailly played more decisive passes between the lines coming out of defence than McTominay and Fred did.

Both are useful in certain situations, but if we just had someone who could get on the ball and dictate the play, we would be so much better. Carrick was the perfect example, a brilliant shield in front of that back four, but able to distribute forwards as well.

There's an urgent need for 3 players right down the spine of the squad I think. A CB, DM and CF. I think that would transform us from where we are now, as in a good team who are definitely on of the top 3/4 teams in the country, to a title contender.

 

[Godfather]

One of our least concerns. Striker, RW, CB, RB then we can talk about CDM.

 

[Roane]

Our MF has been the main issue for me for a while.

The players we have a reactionary. They don't seem to read the game like a carrick or keane or scholes.

In many games I feel the opposition walks through our MF quite easily.

The defence is constantly under the kosh as the ball gets back to our half too quickly. Our forwards don't hold the ball well. Even today you saw an attack from a Bruno mistake.

 

[lex talionis]

....... If you were in prison for the last 5 years and came out to see that Liverpool midfield, you would not say that's a 2x CL finals and Prem winners? Our midfield is fine if he played Pogs and Fred, and he bought a world CB.

I’m a huge fan of Fred, but we’re not fine in midfield if our midfield three is Bruno, Pogba and Fred. None of them are DMs and we need a DM if we expect Pogba to do what we know he can do and allow this side to reach the next level.

Bring in a Kante (not Kanye as my spell check demanded) and we’re instantly a vastly better side in defense and attack. But is there a DM that’s reasonably gettable top DM in January?

 

[RUCK4444]

Is it just me or is a defensive midfielder the most important signing for us right now?

I really think it's glaringly obvious how a good DM will improve our side defensively. While our defenders can be improved, I think a DM will actually improve us more than a CB for example (a CB is still required).

A lack of a top DM hinders us when we're trying to close out games, exposes our defence and prevents us from having control in games at times. There are games we've played this season where I think each defender has performed fine, yet we have still conceded a couple of goals. It had baffled me a little before, but it's obvious that the lack of a quality DM is impeding this side. Peak Matic would be ideal and just think about when Matic is on top form - look how assured the team looks from a defensive standpoint (even cast your mind to just after the first lockdown). I also think a top quality DM helps us when we're playing out from the back - it's not McTominay's strong point.

I like McTominay as a player but he isn't a #6. Fred isn't a good enough DM and Matic's legs are going. To me, it is so obvious that a DM is required more than any defender (LB, RB or CB). I actually wanted Partey last summer as I think he would have been perfect, but a #6 must be top of our agenda in January or in the summer.

No your not the only one, I’ve been banging this drum in almost every thread...

It’s feckin paramount.

 

[dev1l]

Best Defensive midfielder available right now looks to be Rice. But he ll cost a bit too much and Chelsea want him too - most probably he ll ends up there.

 

[andersj]

But he plays next to Ndidi so he doesnt have as much defensive responsibility as Ndidi is a great ball winner and lets his partner concentrate more on what he does with the ball. He wouldnt have that here. He doesnt have someone to do the majority of the defensive stuff, which is where we were exposed today with McTominay and Fred both coming up short doing the defensive responsibilities of a DM.

Good point, but maybe we should aim to build a team where dont need a pure destroyer like Ndidi? Like we used to when we had Carrick/Scholes. Liverpool got Fabinho, but looks even better without him in midfield. They often play Henderson (that is more of a Tielesman type than Ndidi), Winjaldum and Keita/Milner.

If we get a player like Ndidi we will lack players who can help us control a game. If you get a player like Ndidi, you will always look like you need a player like that. But if you can get someone who can help you control the game, there is less of a need for a type like Ndidi.

Tielesman looks like a bit of a complete midfielder. Someone who is quite good off the ball, but also has the ability to help you control a game. I also think a player like that could help set McT/Fred more free. I dont think he would be a downgrade on Fred in defence either. Sure, Fred got a lot of intensity in his game but always has a mistake in him, often looks stressed and is really not a very good defender.

That being said, I’m not sure we can build a team that dont need someone like Ndidi. But I would hope so.

 

[Litch]

For all his flaws, he’s still our second best midfielder. Which one of our midfielders (apart from Bruno) do you actually think is better than him?

I think people are still stuck in pre Fred. He gives the ball away (clearly other players don't) yet he has 90% pass accuracy, he makes more interceptions than Ndidi and Kante, and only AWB makes more tackles than him on this team. He's had more MOTM performances than anyone on this team except Bruno.

If we want to win matches, both our CB's are no way good enough to only play one DM in front of them....

 

[GazTheLegend]

I had a think and I completely agree. Matic and Fred offer us "something" but neither is the complete package. Matic is positionally aware, technically capable but is painfully slow and dare I say a bit lazy, Fred is positionally about the most stupid I've ever seen a footballer be - but he works extremely hard to compensate. Between the two of them our midfield functions - barely. But we need someone with a bit more than that about them.

 

[RUCK4444]

One of our least concerns. Striker, RW, CB, RB then we can talk about CDM.

I would put a DM ahead of all of those, why? Becuase it’s the one position that will automatically benefit all of the rest.

Our midfield is neither balanced, settled or progressive. It’s key to how we intend to play, we have to have a first choice DM who can play it forwards.

It will improve the back line by screening them more effectively, not to mention helping retain possession and setup attacks.

I believe we are pottering around the central issue, we still need those positions that you mentioned strengthened but I think DM is key. Even when we have Fred and Scott in there we regularly get cut open and neither are good playing it forwards.

 

[Litch]

I’m a huge fan of Fred, but we’re not fine in midfield if our midfield three is Bruno, Pogba and Fred. None of them are DMs and we need a DM if we expect Pogba to do what we know he can do and allow this side to reach the next level.

Bring in a Kante (not Kanye as my spell check demanded) and we’re instantly a vastly better side in defense and attack. But is there a DM that’s reasonably gettable top DM in January?

But Fred's stats are better than Kante's last and this season? The problem is we bought a 80m CB that we are now taking about having to buy a DM and another CB to cover up his inadequacies. Lindelof isn't good enough and I'm not entirely sure AWB positional play is good enough either.....

 

[NJM78]

We conceded 36 in 38 games last season. Already conceded 23 in 14 so far this year. This is hardly encouraging and the coaching needs improving asap and hopefully a new CB in January because this is the reason we won't be winning trophies again this season.

 

[Bebestation]

If Ole wants a pure CDM like Fernandinho or Busquets then we can stop playing the 4231 and play a 433 with some more creative players in midfield than 2 work horses all the time. 2 creative players in our midfield protected by a single CDM who is able to do their duties.

I really want to see it.

I just am not sure if Ole is going to ever play off a double pivot so will end up less of a pure CDM.

 

[lex talionis]

But Fred's stats are better than Kante's last and this season? The problem is we bought a 80m CB that we are now taking about having to buy a DM and another CB to cover up his inadequacies. Lindelof isn't good enough and I'm not entirely sure AWB positional play is good enough either.....

If the stats “prove” that Fred is a superior DM to Kante then we need to have a word with the stats.

Your points re the deficiencies of our defenders are well taken, but replacing our back line just isn’t in the cards.

 

[Judas]

It's crucial, but then so is a CB. You fix the DM issue, and suddenly we've got more scope for attack, and you help the defence issue as well.

 

[Leftback99]

I thought the combination of Ndidi and Tielemans looked a level above our options today. Fred didn't have a bad game though.

 

[We need an rvn]

aren't we meant to be signing that equadorian kid who fits the mold for that position...plus isn't Matic dm?

 

[Jev]

For all his flaws, he’s still our second best midfielder. Which one of our midfielders (apart from Bruno) do you actually think is better than him?

I don't know whether he has quite emerged yet but I think there's a better player in McTominay, someone I could more envisage as a longer-term part of our midfield.

Pogba is obviously also a lot better in terms of pure ability.

 

[El Jefe]

We've needed a DM who is actually good at DM things since Ander left. We've got a bunch of players who can play there who have some extras but nobody who does the basics well and actually protects the CBs

Herrera was no more of a DM than Fred. Him and Smalling haven't been a fixture in this side for ages but you seem to always bring them up.

You make reference to them as if they were here during the glory years. Truth is, even if what we have now needs to be upgraded, we need better than both Herrera and Smalling.