Utd Draft: QF - Michaelf7 vs Gio

[Physiocrat]

Michaelf7

Gio

Michaelf7 Tactics

My team will play a 4-3-3 formation with George Best having the freedom to either cut inside or stay out wide on the left hand side with Park playing as a left hand side box-to-box midfielder who can choose to stay central or drift out wide particularly when Best cuts inside. The biggest advantage I feel that my team has is in attacking wide area's where judging by the squads the likely match-ups are Stanley Matthews vs. Luke Shaw and George Best vs. Jimmy Nicholl. I will now provide information on some of the less known players in my team.

Gary Bailey - For eight consecutive seasons at Manchester United (78/79-85/86) Bailey made at least 30 appearances for Manchester United keeping 161 clean sheets in 375 appearances. He also won 2 England caps which given the English GK's available in this era including Shilton and Clemence is impressive as is his being included consistently as an overage player in the England under 21's side (Source). He picked up a major injury which largely ended his career in Europe at the 1986 World Cup when he was only 27 (which is young for a GK). Even when United conceded a lot of goals he still played well such as in a 6-0 loss to Ipswich where he was at fault for none of the goals and saved 3 penalties (Source) or a 5-3 loss to West Brom where he was man of the match (Source). In 2012 Peter Schmeichel included Bailey in a list of his 5 favourite GK's of all time to watch (when changed to best he swapped him out for one of Peter Shilton, Sepp Maier, Neville Southall, Dino Zoff and Manuel Neuer) (Source).

Gordon McQueen - Gordon McQueen was a Scottish CB who won 30 caps between 1974 and 1981 (While playing for Leeds and Manchester United) and was included in the PFA Team of the Year for Division 1 in both the 1974/75 Season and the 1977/78 Season. McQueen was inducted into the Scottish football hall of fame in 2012 which was a year earlier than Martin Buchan was. When he moved to Manchester United from Leeds in February 1978 it was for a then British record transfer fee of 495,000 pounds. McQueen was tall (1.91 metres) and strong in the air. On his death in 2023, Bryan Robson described McQueen as "one of the best centre-backs I had the privilege of playing with" (Source) and that "He was strong and brave, and ahead of his times in being a defender who could play out from the back and contribute as much in attack as he did in defence" (Source).

Noel Cantwell - Noel Cantwell was an Irish LB who after signing for Manchester United in 1960 spent 7 years at the club winning 2 league titles and an FA Cup. When playing at West Ham prior to signing for Manchester United he was one of the three mentors that Bobby Moore had (Source). When referring to Cantwell Bobby Charlton stated that "...sometimes the quality of his playing ability was overlooked, but he was a defender of considerable class, strong on the left side and with a very nice touch" (Source). In a 2005 obituary, journalist Brian Glanville described Cantwell as follows:

Essentially a left-back, though versatile enough in the years after he had moved, in season 1960-61, to represent Ireland at centre-forward, Cantwell was a strong header of the ball, an excellent positional player and, those were the days before the four-man defence and the overlapping full back, always eager to move upfield and have a crack at goal. He scored 16 League goals for West Ham, and another 19 for Manchester United.

Source

Johnny Giles - Johnny Giles was an Irish midfielder who was a key part of the great Leeds team of the late 1960's and early 1970's and was chosen by the Republic of Ireland as it's golden player of the previous 50 years at the UEFA jubilee awards in 2004 (over the likes of Roy Keane, Paul McGrath, Denis Irwin and Liam Brady). Giles was included in the PFA 1st division team of the year in 1973/74 (the first season in which the PFA chose such teams). Giles formed a great partnership with Billy Bremner at Leeds with Giles being more of a creator and Bremner more of a ball winner but both were capable of doing the other task. Chris Kamara described Giles as follows:

“Not only was [John Giles] strong but he could see a pass that was in another world – the vision – and he would land it on a sixpence for the players in front of him.

“And Billy was his little combative midfield player alongside him but Johnny had that vision and passing ability that was something else. He could see in the dark.

“He was my all-time favourite domestic player but I would have to say Pele was my favourite player.

Gio Tactics

THE TEAM

True to the theme we go for a classic 4-4-2.

Holding the forte in the nets is David De Gea, whose 550 games for United and 5 PFA Team of the Year selections speak to just how exceptional he was from 2013 to 2018. Long-term club colleague Luke Shaw operates from his usual left-back slot, twice Man Utd Player of the Year and twice in the PFA Team of the Year. In the centre of defence is Lisandro Martinez whose dynamism, aggression and quality on the ball are a godsend for this current United side. His partner is Martin Buchan, another United legend with almost 500 appearances, a captain for Aberdeen at just 20, who went on take the armband at United, leading the club to 2 FA Cup wins. Team-mates spoke highly of his organisational skills, his reading of the game and use of the ball. To his right is his long-term club colleague from the '70s in Jimmy Nicholl who was solid and dependable and appeared in two World Cups.

Jimmy found his true calling at United as an outstanding full-back. He had great ability. Like Alex Forsyth, he was two-footed and passed the ball with more precision than many a midfielder. He made the game look easy. He was great on the overlap, and excellent in the air. The only thing he lacked was pace. Despite that, few wide-men got the better of him in a one-on-one situation.

The midfield four is comprised of the swashbuckling and effervescent Ryan Giggs on the left flank, who needs no introduction. Inside in his customary left-half position is Duncan Edwards who by the time of his passing at 21 already had almost 200 United appearances and 3rd place in the 1957 Ballon D'Or. Introduced is another club legend from the top drawer in Bryan Robson. Alongside Edwards this two will be expected to run the game from the heart of the park. And crafting from the right is Steve Coppell - inventive with good feet and a superb crosser who understood his role in the team. In particular he can work back in to double up on Best to cut the supply. Nicholl formed a similar partnership with Gerry Armstrong for Northern Ireland, which is why they shut down West Germany in Euro 84 qualification, beating them home and away 1-0, despite going up against the calibre of Littbarski and Rummenigge.

A good 4-4-2 always needs a strong strikeforce. We introduce another club legend in Eric Cantona who will take up the link-man role between attack and midfield. Forming a Cantona/Hughes-esque partnership, Zlatan Ibrahimovic will play as our centre-forward. He had a short but dominant spell at United, winning 3 trophies in 12 months. While both Eric and Zlatan can hold the ball in better than just about anybody else, Cantona will drop into the hole to bring our powerful midfielders into the game, and Ibrahimovic will play higher to repeat the role he has played at various times during his career. In his book he talks of how Capello changed him into a goalscorer who played off the shoulder and attacked the penalty box.

THE INSPIRATION

Spoiler: Utd 93-94

There are lots of similarities to how United played in 1993/94.

1. The same 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1 shape with players who all fit the job demanded of them.
2. The strong midfields with flying wingers and an all-dominating central partnership in Keane/Ince and Robson/Edwards.
3. The physical partnership up top. Cantona helped himself to 38 goals and assists in 93/94, Hughes to 33. Both were in double figures with assists because, not only did their partnership work, but they fed in the midfielders to big attacking returns. Giggs scored 17 which was exceptional work for a left midfielder in a proper 4-4-2. Keane and Ince scored 17 between them which demonstrated how well the front two held things up, and how well the wide men provided service (Kanchelskis with 20 goals and assists). Robson will have a field day.

 

[Physiocrat]

@Michaelf7777777 @Gio

Game on!

 

[Gio]

Thanks for setting up @Physiocrat and all the best @Michaelf7777777

 

[harms]

I have a strange feeling that Gio's two men midfield weights about as much as Michaelf's three men one. When Park Ji Sung is by far the biggest guy in your midfield you may have a bit of a problem, especially against the extremely physical side like Gio's.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I have a strange feeling that Gio's two men midfield weights about as much as Michaelf's three men one. When Park Ji Sung is by far the biggest guy in your midfield you may have a bit of a problem, especially against the extremely physical side like Gio's.

true but in same time gio's midfield will face different problem with those players being quicker and more agile.

 

[harms]

true but in same time gio's midfield will face different problem with those players being quicker and more agile.

I don't think of Stiles or Giles as being particularly quick. Agile? To a point. But it's not going to be a case of Xavi & Iniesta outfoxing physical brutes in opposition's midfield.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I don't think of Stiles or Giles as being particularly quick. Agile? To a point. But it's not going to be a case of Xavi & Iniesta outfoxing physical brutes in opposition's midfield.

yeah they are not that quick but Giles is agile IMO and if you add Best going inside it could be tricky to play.

But as you said, they were not xavi and iniesta so its not decisive, just thought its worth mentioning as a counter to the strength argument(again for me not going to be a big advantage).

 

[Jim Beam]

Zlatan with Cantona? Ugh

 

[Himannv]

Flipflopping a bit but going with Michael at the moment.

 

[Physiocrat]

Zlatan with Cantona? Ugh

Yeah, that seems an odd choice.

 

[Enigma_87]

Flipflopping a bit but going with Michael at the moment.

Yeah, Cantona/Ibra seems off as a pairing and, shame as I liked the rest of the team and especially that midfield. Gio trumps the defences comparison, but on the other hand Best/Matthews pairing can create tons of chances for Cavani to miss.

 

[Gio]

The idea was to remake the Hughes / Cantona partnership from 93/94.

Eric Cantona was the first forward I played with who would drift into spaces.

Predominantly, during my playing career, teams played 4-4-2. One striker came short and the other went long, and you just played off each other.

I played with my back to goal. I saw my job as being about retaining possession, resisting challenges, bringing people into the game.

But not Eric. He was constantly looking for spaces where he felt he could have an impact – and if he did get the ball in those spaces between the lines, as we call it now, he could be very dangerous.

He would mix up his game, too. Sometimes he would come up alongside me, other times he would drop 20 or 30 yards off me. I’d be thinking: “I’m supposed to be playing with a partner here.” But he was very, very clever – he understood the game really, really well, and he knew how he could have the best possible impact in any situation.

Watching him, and understanding what he was trying to do, enabled me to add something to my own game, too. I’ll always be grateful to him for those insights.

I'm sure back in 1993 it seemed counter-intuitive that Ferguson played with two big guys most renowned for holding it in and scoring spectacular goals. Especially when most teams would have been operating with the more traditional little man / big man model. We achieve the play-stretching through two routes.

• First by Cantona dropping off and Zlatan staying high.
• Second by the wingers bombing forward.

That is exactly how United operated in 93/94 and why that team is so revered to this day.

Up front, neither Cantona or Hughes were poachers in the mould of an Andy Cole or a Ruud van Nistelrooy, but they were probably all-round better players, and they would combine with their team-mates more instead of just being on the end of a move. It meant for an all-round team with threats from any angle. There is an argument to say it was the most complete team in United’s, and Premier League, history.

The idea was to bring our midfield into the game. And the reason for that here is we have a clear superiority in that area of the park, and 4 midfielders who are renowned for their box-to-box games. I think if you look at all Ferguson's great midfields, 93/94 would have been the one where they had the most attacking outputs. You can score a goal like this, for example:


Look at the interplay on a poor pitch. And the fluid movement - Giggs and Kanchelskis (Coppell) moving into the middle to the CF positions, Hughes and Cantona dropping in as double 10s, Ince (Robbo) overloading.

And the intention is to use Ibrahimovic in this type of role, shown here against the Champions League winners Inter in 2010, where he's going long, dropping in behind full-backs, etc.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Gio i see the logic as some skillsets are similar but one difference is that ibra was more static while sparky ran channels all day and provided so much of the ball in all phases of play

 

[Gio]

@Gio i see the logic as some skillsets are similar but one difference is that ibra was more static while sparky ran channels all day and provided so much of the ball in all phases of play

Yeah Sparky had that in his locker, no doubt. But the video example I gave above showed that Ibra did too at different stages of his career. At Juventus, Inter and Barcelona he played as more of a conventional forward. At Milan he became more of a false 9 / 10 who created as much as he scored. At PSG elements of both, but moved back to being a goalscorer, which he saw through at United. In his 20s he was more mobile than he was in his 30s and, because he aged so well at Milan and PSG, that might colour perceptions. It's a bit like Rooney who started off free-roaming and eventually evolved into a purer centre-forward as his mobility reduced.

Here's a good example of him at Juventus against Real Madrid when he was 24. Firstly he's visibly slimmer (before he bulked up), lighter on his feet, pulls wide and takes on players 1v1.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Gave this to Mikey by a small margin. Good attack with enough grit in rest of team to keep out this win.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Yeah Sparky had that in his locker, no doubt. But the video example I gave above showed that Ibra did too at different stages of his career. At Juventus, Inter and Barcelona he played as more of a conventional forward. At Milan he became more of a false 9 / 10 who created as much as he scored. At PSG elements of both, but moved back to being a goalscorer, which he saw through at United. In his 20s he was more mobile than he was in his 30s and, because he aged so well at Milan and PSG, that might colour perceptions. It's a bit like Rooney who started off free-roaming and eventually evolved into a purer centre-forward as his mobility reduced.

Here's a good example of him at Juventus against Real Madrid when he was 24. Firstly he's visibly slimmer (before he bulked up), lighter on his feet, pulls wide and takes on players 1v1.

so you using juve ibra? i swear i saw somewhere thst you want him up front saw i assumed its not the juve version who moved quite a bit!

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Quite a persuasive case @Gio has built in favour of that Cantona/Ibra partnership, and the team as a whole fits the Utd 93-94 model really well.

Mike's wingers are a compelling argument in his favour though, against any set of FBs in the draft most likely but particularly here against a relative weak point for Gio. That Blanc/McQueen partnership looks dangerously short of pace and agility though. Not that Cantona and Ibra are particularly quick, but there's pace elsewhere, and McQueen seems to have been seen as clumsy on the deck and could struggle with their skill with the ball at their feet.

Very tough to decide here between two quality teams.

 

[Gio]

Nicely drafted @Michaelf7777777

Hard to look past those wingers and especially having snapped up the best full-back in the pool as well.