VAR and Refs | General Discussion | May 15: Premier League clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR from next season

[RexHamilton]

The most annoying thing here isn’t whether or not he’s right that it’s a soft pen. It’s the way he’s been bending over fecking backwards to justify every single VAR call up until this one. Including a bunch of them which were a hell of a lot less obvious.

It's like the Trent barge before Liverpool's winner against Fulham. You can bet your life if United got a winner like that and VAR didn't intervene it would have been headline news.

 

[Doracle]

The most annoying thing here isn’t whether or not he’s right that it’s a soft pen. It’s the way he’s been bending over fecking backwards to justify every single VAR call up until this one. Including a bunch of them which were a hell of a lot less obvious.

He doesn’t say the decision is wrong in fairness. He says it’s correct, just with his little ancillary grumble about what might have been 25 years ago (I do agree with him that you’d never have got that 25 years ago).

The problem with his “analysis” is that we all know that, had the penalty not been given, he’d have come to exactly the opposite opinion. It would then clearly have not been a penalty because the ball had long gone and the impact minor. It’s just irritating that he seems to think his job is defending referees, rather than giving an unbiased opinion.

 

[Doracle]

That said, the bad decisions last night were clearly Wissa only getting a yellow card for throwing a right hook and connecting with his opponent’s face and the Liverpool defender shoving a United attacker sideways away from the ball in the penalty area. Both obviously wrong decisions that required overturning.

 

[90 + 5min]

It was free kick. But once you let it go you can't take it back. Penalty is whole different situation. If he scored goal fine. Take that back. But it was penalty.

How can Liverpool get those decision over and over again.

 

[Nickelodeon]

If that was a clear and obvious error then what are they even doing? Ref saw it clearly, argued with VARs while on the screen and decided that he was clearly wrong.

The statements Liverpool issued have ensured that they get all 50-50s.

 

[awop]

It was free kick. But once you let it go you can't take it back. Penalty is whole different situation. If he scored goal fine. Take that back. But it was penalty.

How can Liverpool get those decision over and over again.

This is the same action. Everything happened in less than 10s and the chance at getting the penalty comes directly from Endo losing the ball

 

[Sandikan]

The same script writers that insisted Messi won the world cup are definitely at it for Liverpool aren't they

 

[frostbite]

It was free kick. But once you let it go you can't take it back. Penalty is whole different situation. If he scored goal fine. Take that back. But it was penalty.

How can Liverpool get those decision over and over again.

It's the same play. VAR and the ref made the correct decision, I don't know why people complain. Without VAR we'd have another ref mistake here.

 

[2 man midfield]

If that was a clear and obvious error then what are they even doing? Ref saw it clearly, argued with VARs while on the screen and decided that he was clearly wrong.

The statements Liverpool issued have ensured that they get all 50-50s.

I think most would agree it’s a foul in the buildup. It’s the technicality of VAR, for me that makes this weird. “Ref thought it was ok, we can’t overturn it” is what we’re usually all told.

 

[90 + 5min]

This is the same action. Everything happened in less than 10s and the chance at getting the penalty comes directly from Endo losing the ball

Lot of thing happens in less than 10s.

If this is the rule, then we can go back how far? 1 minute? 3 minutes? Until ball is out? 45 min?

 

[2 man midfield]

Lot of thing happens in less than 10s.

If this is the rule, then we can go back how far? 1 minute? 3 minutes? Until ball is out? 45 min?

It directly led to a turnover in possession and therefore the palace player through on goal. If it’s a foul then I’ve got no problem with them overturning it. There’s just so many technicalities that confuse everything that means this isn’t the case in every instance.

 

[Alex99]

I think most would agree it’s a foul in the buildup. It’s the technicality of VAR, for me that makes this weird. “Ref thought it was ok, we can’t overturn it” is what we’re usually all told.

This is one of the (many) aspects of VAR I really hate.

If it's not there to ensure every single foul is called correctly, then it shouldn't be used to call a foul just because something else happened after that it can be used for.

 

[Ayoba]

Correct decision, it was a foul from Hughes which resulted in the penalty incident.

 

[90 + 5min]

It directly led to a turnover in possession and therefore the palace player through on goal. If it’s a foul then I’ve got no problem with them overturning it. There’s just so many technicalities that confuse everything that means this isn’t the case in every instance.

If same thing happened between Hughes and Endo near Crystal Palace corner flag. CP passes ball for 3 minutes without ball going out, attacks and exactly same situation happened in Liverpool penalty area. Would it have been penalty?

 

[frostbite]

This is one of the (many) aspects of VAR I really hate.

If it's not there to ensure every single foul is called correctly, then it shouldn't be used to call a foul just because something else happened after that it can be used for.

Obviously, they are trying to find some balance between getting everything right (and having too many VAR interruptions) and getting only the most important parts of the game right (and having fewer interruptions). Which is a good thing.

I rarely read this discussion about VAR ... but it seems to me that most posts complain about nothing. Perhaps people forget how many mistakes the refs made before VAR. Sure, there are still some mistakes, but certainly not as many as before, most of the time VAR gets it right.

 

[2 man midfield]

If same thing happened between Hughes and Endo near Crystal Palace corner flag. CP passes ball for 3 minutes without ball going out, attacks and exactly same situation happened in Liverpool penalty area. Would it have been penalty?

Yes, it would be deemed a different sequence of play. How this is decided I’m not sure, it’s probably down to interpretation. 3 minutes definitely would be though!

 

[frostbite]

If same thing happened between Hughes and Endo near Crystal Palace corner flag. CP passes ball for 3 minutes without ball going out, attacks and exactly same situation happened in Liverpool penalty area. Would it have been penalty?

So many posters told you it was an obvious foul and it was obviously the same play ... but you keep going. Pointless.

 

[cyberman]

It's the same play. VAR and the ref made the correct decision, I don't know why people complain. Without VAR we'd have another ref mistake here.

But it’s not a goal or red card challenge, I’m pretty sure VAR shouldn’t be involved?

 

[El Zoido]

Can’t complain about this one. This is where VAR shines, really. It was a foul by Hughes in the build up, they got it right the whole way.

 

[90 + 5min]

So many posters told you it was an obvious foul and it was obviously the same play ... but you keep going. Pointless.

Everybody agrees it is foul but when you let that go and a penalty happens little later it is not that straightforward.

Liverpool scored 2-0 goal against She U in similiar situation. They let that goal count.

 

[Alex99]

Obviously, they are trying to find some balance between getting everything right (and having too many VAR interruptions) and getting only the most important parts of the game right (and having fewer interruptions). Which is a good thing.

I rarely read this discussion about VAR ... but it seems to me that most posts complain about nothing. Perhaps people forget how many mistakes the refs made before VAR. Sure, there are still some mistakes, but certainly not as many as before, most of the time VAR gets it right.

I get this point, but it's just another inconsistency of VAR.

They're not calling that back to VAR and awarding Liverpool the free kick if the challenge is a knee-high lunge, just outside the box. It's a free-kick to Palace and red card.

 

[frostbite]

Everybody agrees it is foul but when you let that go and a penalty happens little later it is not that straightforward.

Liverpool scored 2-0 goal against She U in similiar situation. They let that goal count.

Forget "similar" situations. Forget other games, and other VAR decisions. If you want to discuss those, discuss them on their own merit.


This decision today was simple and obvious and VAR made the right decision. End of the story.

 

[2 man midfield]

Forget "similar" situations. Forget other games, and other VAR decisions. If you want to discuss those, discuss them on their own merit.


This decision today was simple and obvious and VAR made the right decision. End of the story.

That’s the problem, you can’t. Every situation and team has to be subject to the same rules and processes, otherwise what’s the point?

 

[Josep Dowling]

I would love to see the stats on Liverpool decisions with VAR as they have to be top from benefiting from it. I know they had the ridiculous offside call that ended up with them playing the victim card (as usual).

 

[NotThatSoph]

Everybody agrees it is foul but when you let that go and a penalty happens little later it is not that straightforward.

Liverpool scored 2-0 goal against She U in similiar situation. They let that goal count.

They let that goal count because it wasn't a foul.

 

[frostbite]

That’s the problem, you can’t. Every situation and team has to be subject to the same rules and processes, otherwise what’s the point?

Refs are human, they were always inconsistent and always made mistakes. VAR people are also human, and they are also making mistakes.

No system will get it 100% right, all the time. It is not possible. But on the average, now we have fewer mistakes than before, thanks to VAR.

We have people here who complain, while admitting that this decision today was obvious and correct! Think about this! Can you believe that someone complains the ref made the correct decision today, because the problem is that some other ref made an incorrect decision a few weeks ago? If you think about it, it makes no sense!

 

[90 + 5min]

This is what I'm saying.

Penalty after 2 minutes time.

Shocking.

 

[2 man midfield]

Refs are human, they were always inconsistent and always made mistakes. VAR people are also human, and they are also making mistakes.

No system will get it 100% right, all the time. It is not possible. But on the average, now we have fewer mistakes than before, thanks to VAR.

We have people here who complain, while admitting that this decision today was obvious and correct! Think about this! Can you believe that someone complains the ref made the correct decision today, because the problem is that some other ref made an incorrect decision a few weeks ago? If you think about it, it makes no sense!

As I’ve already said though - I don’t think people are complaining about the decision itself. Just the inconsistency and technicalities to get there, which means it isn’t the same for everyone.

 

[frostbite]

Second important VAR decision, this time against Liverpool. Again the red missed something, VAR told him, the ref looked at the replay and corrected his decision.

VAR got it correct twice. Without VAR, we'd have two obvious errors.

 

[frostbite]

As I’ve already said though - I don’t think people are complaining about the decision itself. Just the inconsistency and technicalities to get there, which means it isn’t the same for everyone.

But they should complain when VAR gets it wrong. Not when gets it right.

What should the referee do today? Get it wrong because someone else got it wrong a few weeks ago? Makes no sense!

If someone makes a mistake ... from then on everyone should keep making the same mistake to be "consistent"? Again, this makes no sense.

 

[90 + 5min]

Second important VAR decision, this time against Liverpool. Again the red missed something, VAR told him, the ref looked at the replay and corrected his decision.

VAR got it correct twice. Without VAR, we'd have two obvious errors.

We wouldn't have obvious errors. This have to do with the first situation. Otherwise it is crazy going back 2 minutes.

 

[2 man midfield]

But they should complain when VAR gets it wrong. Not when gets it right.

What should the referee do today? Get it wrong because someone else got it wrong a few weeks ago? Makes no sense!

If someone makes a mistake ... from then on everyone should keep making the same mistake to be "consistent"? Again, this makes no sense.

No, nobody is annoyed they got it right today (other than it taking too long). The annoyance comes from the fact the same process varies so wildly from game to game.

 

[NotThatSoph]

No, nobody is annoyed they got it right today (other than it taking too long). The annoyance comes from the fact the same process varies so wildly from game to game.

What other situations are we talking about here? With handballs and battles in the box during set pieces I get the annoyance at the inconsistencies, but this? The one example mentioned, Liverpool's second goal against Sheffield United in the midweek, wasn't like this at all.

 

[2 man midfield]

What other situations are we talking about here? With handballs and battles in the box during set pieces I get the annoyance at the inconsistencies, but this? The one example mentioned, Liverpool's second goal against Sheffield United in the midweek, wasn't like this at all.

Didn’t see that game so can’t comment. My main gripe is that we’re usually told ‘the ref didn’t see an issue with it, so we can’t overturn it so the on field decision stands’, whereas here VAR practically had to convince him to give the foul.

 

[90 + 5min]

What a referee.

Can it be more obvious. How is that another yellow?

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Expect an apology to Palace and demotion of referee after this.

 

[Manncunian]

I cannot stand the fecking state of refereeing in this fecking country. Feck the refs and feck PGMOL and feck Howard Webb.

Sick to the back teeth of the same shite week in week out. Embarrassing disgrace.

They can’t even get it right with the benefit of hindsight and video fecking replays. Utter morons.

 

[Pexbo]

WWEPL

 

[90 + 5min]

Expect an apology to Palace and demotion of referee after this.

I wonder how Liverpool, Arsenal and ManCity always have decisions going their way when it matters the most.

 

[TheReligion]

When you have an absolute gentleman like Roy Hodgson upset and being booked on the touchline you know the game is gone.

Disgusting again and low and behold we know the team that benefits.