VAR and Refs | General Discussion | May 15: Premier League clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR from next season

[redshaw]

It's a clear pen for Forest on first view and many times after.

I can see how some people could interpret to give as much benefit as possible to the Everton defender, they both join and stretch for the ball, it's not a typical leg out or slide tackle across or or even hooking a player that's running away or pushing a player over.

Sometimes refs consumed so much with viewing incidents will see something else to the majority in the moment, a stone wall pen is denied as they try rationalize every aspect of it. Also it's a weird balancing act, when VAR was introduced the pens went up and they wanted to bring the number down and don't want overrule the ref.

This incident should've been looked at by the pitch ref, it's one of those big incidents that's clear and obvious and focal point of the play.

 

[90 + 5min]

So today, one more penalty where you wonder why we don’t get those?

Not that I’m against it because I rather see Arsenal win instead of that other team in title race.

 

[Withnail]

A perfectly good goal disallowed for Bournemouth after a lengthy VAR check. Terrible decision.

 

[Zed is not dead]

PGMOL : « only the best referees in the country work at Premier League level »

Also the best Premier league referees :

 

[Jev]

Another shitshow from VAR today. Took an age to make decisions and arguably got all the debatable ones wrong. But again, the fundamental flaw of the whole system is that they were just that, debatable. VAR creates the illusion of scientific accuracy but really, VAR doesn’t give you better decisions, just different decisions – while making the game less enjoyable and more tedious. How many years has it been now? It’s been one big disaster and should never have been introduced.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Another shitshow from VAR today. Took an age to make decisions and arguably got all the debatable ones wrong. But again, the fundamental flaw of the whole system is that they were just that, debatable. VAR creates the illusion of scientific accuracy but really, VAR doesn’t give you better decisions, just different decisions – while making the game less enjoyable and more tedious. How many years has it been now? It’s been one big disaster and should never have been introduced.

A million % accurate. And that’s without even going into how the predictable controversy it’s causing creates so many conspiracies about referees being bent etc. Which was barely a footnote to football discussions pre-VAR. Crazy how so many people can’t/won’t accept this. It seems so obvious to me.

And also this narrative about refereeing standards being at an all time low. They’re not. They’re just as fallible as they always were but VAR massively exaggerates this fallibility and creates an atmosphere where human fallibility is no longer acceptable. It’s so fecking toxic.

 

[Samid]

The top 3 get nothing pens every week

 

[Shane88]

Refs love giving City a pen because it might get them on the plane over to ref some UAE matches with that fat brown envelope and 5 star hotel.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

A million % accurate. And that’s without even going into how the predictable controversy it’s causing creates so many conspiracies about referees being bent etc. Which was barely a footnote to football discussions pre-VAR. Crazy how so many people can’t/won’t accept this. It seems so obvious to me.

And also this narrative about refereeing standards being at an all time low. They’re not. They’re just as fallible as they always were but VAR massively exaggerates this fallibility and creates an atmosphere where human fallibility is no longer acceptable. It’s so fecking toxic.

Partly VAR. Partly evidence of an actual State making excessively over invoiced payments for refereeing services to officials who also concurrently referee their State-owned clubs games. It's probably the clearest evidence of bribery and corruption within EPL refereeing.

 

[El Zoido]

The top 3 get nothing pens every week

They have to make it exciting, that’s the main prerogative.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

So if the ref hadn't given either of Arsenal or City's penalties then VAR wouldn't have either, the same with the Bournemouth goal if the ref had given it, even though they probably knew they were all wrong, but it weren't total howlers so they just agreed.

It's mad that they ever thought people would accept this as been a fair system whilst been so intrusive on the game.

 

[SER19]

Once again, I would ask, even if you think some of these are penalties, how can you even begin to explain the ones we've had refused ALL season when you see what city get. Its genuinely worth about a 12 point difference between the teams which still leaves a big gap but it really is that bad.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Its ridiculous that we are still hearing this nonsence about VAR not overturning a decision which ever way it had gone from commentators, a penalty is either a penalty or its not so its a yes or no decision for VAR.

 

[Withnail]

Its ridiculous that we are still hearing this nonsence about VAR not overturning a decision which ever way it had gone from commentators, a penalty is either a penalty or its not so its a yes or no decision for VAR.

The problem is it's not a yes/no decision on the pen. They've introduced subjectivity and are making a judgement on the refs decision as opposed to an objective decision on the incident itself. It's a nonsense how anyone would think that this implementation would get consistency in decisions.

 

[SER19]

Time to get rid of var. When it isn't used to give calls like romero handball versus United, but is used to give some of the shit we've seen, no argument can be made for keeping it. Get offside tech and goal line tech and just go back to normal

 

[kiristao]

Surprised the first penalty was given. You generally never see a penalty given if the striker has had a clean strike on the ball (and the ball goes out for a goal kick) and then gets fouled or caught by the defender/goalkeeper

 

[90 + 5min]

Looking forward to some statements from O'Neill in his next press conference.

 

[SER19]

Surprised the first penalty was given. You generally never see a penalty given if the striker has had a clean strike on the ball (and the ball goes out for a goal kick) and then gets fouled or caught by the defender/goalkeeper

Garnacho getting absolutely battered by ederson springs to mind.

I simply don't think football is a clean sport. Citys financial cheating is clear, but i think on field has levels of corruption now that var makes quite easy

 

[WeePat]

Just on that Arsenal game. The push on Martinelli in the second half was more of a penalty than the Havertz one, which looked like a clear dive to me.

Bournemouth should have had a goal or a penalty in that sequence of play. To give neither and instead award Arsenal a foul is maddening. A goal there would have really tested Arsenal because Bournemouth kinda outplayed them in the second half.

 

[RedRocket9908]

The problem is it's not a yes/no decision on the pen. They've introduced subjectivity and are making a judgement on the refs decision as opposed to an objective decision on the incident itself. It's a nonsense how anyone would think that this implementation would get consistency in decisions.

On a penalty all the VAR ref should be doing is looking at the incident and making his own decision and then if his decision is the same as the on-field one then he says check complete and if his decision is different to the referee's then he should reconend an on-field review.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Garnacho getting absolutely battered by ederson springs to mind.

I simply don't think football is a clean sport. Citys financial cheating is clear, but i think on field has levels of corruption now that var makes quite easy

Ugh, that Garnacho one. So bad.

 

[Withnail]

On a penalty all the VAR ref should be doing is looking at the incident and making his own decision and then if his decision is the same as the on-field one then he says check complete and if his decision is different to the referee's then he should reconend an on-field review.

Absolutely agree

 

[SER19]

Ugh, that Garnacho one. So bad.

This is the thing though. I can live with it not being given (despite it clearly being excessive force) but then you see what city get today.

I could just about live with garnacho getting leg swiped by OShea last weekend, but then you see the 2 chelsea got versus us and city's second today.

There is very plainly a gut feeling to lean against United in any doubt, because of what happens if we get a close call.

Regards city, the list of decisions that have gone to them this season (and recent years) is bordering or surpassing suspicious

There was a twitter thread going around a couple of weeks ago, a nameless account I think, with clips of most of the shockers gone against us this season, if anybody knows the one could you link it?

 

[Flying high]

Garnacho getting absolutely battered by ederson springs to mind.

I simply don't think football is a clean sport. Citys financial cheating is clear, but i think on field has levels of corruption now that var makes quite easy

I know a retired jockey. In his words: 'yes races are often fixed, but no more than football'.

He's a mouthy cnut, so I can't say I totally believe him. But in recent years I'm finding it harder to simply put all the strange and inconsistent decisions down to incompetence alone. VAR failing to introduce any semblence of consistency is a big part of that growing suspicion.

 

[CoopersDream]

This is the thing though. I can live with it not being given (despite it clearly being excessive force) but then you see what city get today.

One got the ball, then the player, the other just the player. While todays was soft, he just crashed into the player.

I get that Ederson used excessive force, but he got the ball and cleared it. Todays was a very different kind of thing to me. I wouldn't havd given the penalty, but it's not really in the category "if one is the the other should be" to me.

Regarding corruption, it makes little sense to scream corruption after every bad decision. It is much more them just being bad, with a bias for the top teams - as they usually have.

 

[SER19]

I know a retired jockey. In his words: 'yes races are often fixed, but no more than football'.

He's a mouthy cnut, so I can't say I totally believe him. But in recent years I'm finding it harder to simply put all the strange and inconsistent decisions down to incompetence alone. VAR failing to introduce any semblence of consistency is a big part of that growing suspicion.

Var makes cheating easier. How many calls are put in super slow motion so the pundits can lean either way on it. You can stand over almost any call with var.

One got the ball, then the player, the other just the player. While todays was soft, he just crashed into the player.

I get that Ederson used excessive force, but he got the ball and cleared it. Todays was a very different kind of thing to me. I wouldn't havd given the penalty, but it's not really in the category "if one is the the other should be" to me.

they're different but still comparable. both have contact between the players, and frankly if citys first is a penalty, then we should see a penalty in pretty much every single game. almost every time a player gets a shot away, even when scoring, contact comes after. It was a crazy call for a common challenge. But then on the flip side, we see a completely reckless lunge by ederson go unpunished, because he beat garnacho to the ball by an inch. All in all, I dont believe in one million years that we would get the penalty city got today, against them in the cup final. Theres a huge difference in the threshold needed to award them a penalty or to give a penalty against them, compared to us. This season it has stepped up to a level that doesnt look possible due to incompetence

 

[CoopersDream]

they're different but still comparable. both have contact between the players, and frankly if citys first is a penalty, then we should see a penalty in pretty much every single game. almost every time a player gets a shot away, even when scoring, contact comes after. It was a crazy call for a common challenge. But then on the flip side, we see a completely reckless lunge by ederson go unpunished, because he beat garnacho to the ball by an inch. All in all, I dont believe in one million years that we would get the penalty city got today, against them in the cup final. Theres a huge difference in the threshold needed to award them a penalty or to give a penalty against them, compared to us. This season it has stepped up to a level that doesnt look possible due to incompetence

I mean, I think todays was soft, but to me it's more of a penalty then Ederson's. I won't get into whether United would be treated differently, but it's quite clear to me that teams near the top in general gets more soft decisions (whether it's Arsenal, Liverpool or City).

Regarding penalties, City has got one more than United this season. They got two today, ome very soft, but given the amount of time they spend in the opposing penalty area it seems reasonable they should have a lot of penalty claims.

 

[Withnail]

That first one for City is never a penalty. The ref's had a mare there, and of course the VAR goes along with it.

The City player initiates the contact if anything. Straight up fouls on players who've gotten their shot away have been routinely waved away for as long as I can remember, but today that gets given as a pen.

 

[G-manc]

I was surprised the Havertz one from the weekend seemed to be accepted by most pundits.

He dragged his trailing foot along the ground to initiate the contact, never a natural movement in a million years.

 

[Withnail]

I was surprised the Havertz one from the weekend seemed to be accepted by most pundits.

He dragged his trailing foot along the ground to initiate the contact, never a natural movement in a million years.

They all pretty much admitted he'd conned the ref but at the same time said it was a pen.

 

[Bangor_Red]

Car also happy enough with that high foot it seems.damage done by the post.ok then

 

[thegregster]

Joke that not given as a pen

 

[Zed is not dead]

Joke that not given as a pen

Johnson moves his head towards Joe Gomez’ foot
Same way Boly moved his head towards Ederson’s fists last week resulting in no penalty given

 

[Sandikan]

The absolute classic "anywhere else on the pitch" decision.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Joke that not given as a pen

One of the worst of the season. Unbelievable decision.

 

[Oranges038]

Joke that not given as a pen

Games gone soft, John Terry didn't even look for a penalty when Diaby kicked him in the head.

 

[RedRocket9908]

This will be interesting

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[ROFLUTION]

This will be interesting

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Everyone: VAR is shit
The refs: Let’s stick a camera on it!

 

[Mb194dc]

This will be interesting

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Let's see how many bookings for dissent the ref is going to miss?

They should do ref cam every match in the PL and Europe, for ref training help as much as anything else.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Joke that not given as a pen

Call me RAWKish if you want but if that's at OT and it's a United player doing it. It either gets given or there's a massive meltdown in the media and an analysis of it for the week