VAR and Refs | General Discussion | May 15: Premier League clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR from next season

[Withnail]

Tbf one of the refs is Australian. He sent off some poor bloke for "running aggressively towards the ref"

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I just saw this on MOTD2 as I was out yesterday. That was absolutely farcical

 

[cyberman]

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I'm sure they also have their own interpretation of the word AXE and will be sent to the Championship for 2 weeks instead of one before coming back like nothing happened.

What do they expect the refs to do when they admit they’ve made up what rules to follow?
How does that being any consistency or no mistakes.?
It’s not the worst but Grealish is the biggest example of this. VAR just let it happen because it simply does not want to get involved which goes against the laws of the game.
At what point do UEFA / FIFA step in?

 

[Offside]

Some of the decisions this weekend! Don’t think I’ve ever seen it in a worse state. VAR has totally taken away from the game.

 

[yumtum]

How do you still manage to feck up with video evidence?

This isn't a VAR problem, it's a referee problem, it's like giving an ipad to your 90 yesr old grandmother - you'd think the technology gap wouldn't be as apparent with these guys but they seemingly have no clue how to use it.

 

[GiddyUp]

VAR officials should be random and independent of the referees. What we have now is mates covering each other's arse every week.

 

[Mb194dc]

I just saw this on MOTD2 as I was out yesterday. That was absolutely farcical

It's not a second yellow for dissent? I'm all for that. Referees get no respect because they never book anyone for it. You see players whining at them all game long.

Questioning a decision aggressively is a yellow. All the referees should enforce it properly. Sure, they'll be a lot of yellows and reds for a few weeks...

Cheating, diving, feigning head, other injuries along with harassing the referee needs to be stamped out.

 

[Daydreamer]

It's not a second yellow for dissent? I'm all for that. Referees get no respect because they never book anyone for it. You see players whining at them all game long.

Questioning a decision aggressively is a yellow. All the referees should enforce it properly. Sure, they'll be a lot of yellows and reds for a few weeks...

Cheating, diving, feigning head, other injuries along with harassing the referee needs to be stamped out.

I would agree with this if it was applied consistently. However Lemina got sent of for doing something that occurs literally hundreds of times per season without punishment.

Contrast that with the officiating at the World Cup. It was of a very high standard and generally incredibly consistent. For example, if you time-wasted they added 9 or 10 minutes. Consistently. So teams stopped time-wasting. They solved a problem we’ve had in the game for decades within a week.

Just be consistent.

 

[SilentWitness]

The interview Webb gave a few weeks ago gave me hope. Since then we have had more embarassing decisions. Refereeing in this country currently is fecking appalling.

 

[duffer]

Is there any reason all the refs need to be English? The Premier League should have the pick of all the best refs in the world rather than the sea of mediocrity and incompetence we currently have.

They don't need to be English. You need to be 14 years old and resident in England to initially become a referee for the English FA.

To be a top level ref (Premier League or on the international list) you need to just do it for years and years, working your way up the ladder.

There's no foreign refs because why would anyone go through the bother? For the amount of time it takes you could get a much paying better job where you don't get 30,000 people calling you a wanker every few days.

 

[Idxomer]

Just watched the Weghorst goal that was disallowed again, and that was 100% handball by the Leeds player.

 

[Pexbo]

Just watched the Weghorst goal that was disallowed again, and that was 100% handball by the Leeds player.

It kinda highlights another problem with refereeing in this country which is this notion that certain decisions they make won’t matter if the result is already set in stone. They tend to do the same with injury time if one team is three goals clear.

They brushed over it because in their mind it was inconsequential. Try telling that to someone that has a couple of thousand pounds riding on a 3-0 result.

Try telling that to a team that misses out on Champions League football and around £50-100m extra the following season because of goal difference.

For me, the betting industry that is so heavily coupled with football is the main reason there needs to be top to bottom reform of refereeing in this country. You cannot have decisions that will cost millions upon millions of millions of pounds every couple of days happening on the whim of an official with zero transparency and zero accountability.

 

[Withnail]

The interview Webb gave a few weeks ago gave me hope. Since then we have had more embarassing decisions. Refereeing in this country currently is fecking appalling.

That came across as pure PR guff to me. He was defending their performance so far this season and then talking about changing the rules after incidents such as the Rashford 'offside' goal because 'the game' didn't like it. This had me hearing alarm bells.

Changing the rules or interpretation after controversial incidents mid-season is muddying the water and isn't very fair. If it's onside on December, it should be onside in May. It should only be done in exceptional circumstances imo. They should keep the rules for the full season and review in the Summer. It's no wonder we get wildly different interpretations when they're changing stuff all the time.

 

[fallengt]

Embarrassing week for VAR. They didn't make this many errors in the whole Worldcup, FA Refs did it matter of days, jaysus
As long as refs don't hold accountable. This will continue.

 

[RedStarUnited]

This is the second time this season Arsenal have received an apology from the officials. So all the other teams dont deserve an apology?

 

[KjaAnd]

Just watched the Weghorst goal that was disallowed again, and that was 100% handball by the Leeds player.

Thought so when I watched the replay. However, as usual it wasn't mentioned on TV and hasn't been a topic after the game.

 

[KjaAnd]

So Arsenal has received an apology. How about Brentford? Mbuemos perfectly good goal was chalked off for no reason. Nobody seems to be talking about this.

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[Drainy]

So Arsenal has received an apology. How about Brentford? Mbuemos perfectly good goal was chalked off for no reason. Nobody seems to be talking about this.

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Because one is wrong subjectively, while the other is objectively wrong so had to be accepted?

 

[acnumber9]

For the Weghorst goal they just decided that it was in injury time and wouldn’t change the result so just decided not to bother doing their job. The same way refs ass minimal injury time on when the game is out of sight. It’s not like league places can be decided by goal difference or anything.

 

[awop]

So Arsenal has received an apology. How about Brentford? Mbuemos perfectly good goal was chalked off for no reason. Nobody seems to be talking about this.

There's a shirt pull on Gabriel. Enough to make him fall/slip ? I wouldn't say so, we got very lucky but the ref whistled too fast and Ramsdale stopped playing.

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PGMOL Musical Chairs 2022/2023

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Honestly, the refs in this country are a little cabal. Siloed and above scrutiny, now they've been given VAR and all the help and still cannot get basic decisions correct. I agree with others' assessments, that VAR has made them look worse because we all get to scrutinize the same images and phases. Now we see how inept they truly are.

 

[Pexbo]

For the Weghorst goal they just decided that it was in injury time and wouldn’t change the result so just decided not to bother doing their job. The same way refs ass minimal injury time on when the game is out of sight. It’s not like league places can be decided by goal difference or anything.

Exactly what I said above. Try explaining that to someone who is waiting on that third goal for an accumulator to pay out thousands. Try explaining that to a club at the end of the season when they miss out on the CL and all that comes with it by goal difference.

Because those involved with VAR don’t take it seriously enough to do their job properly.

 

[Mb194dc]

Webb is at least trying to improve things. Hopefully we get semi auto offside and miked up officials from next season at least...

I'm all for properly enforcing dissent too, players are questioning every descision, in the refs face all game long. It's a yellow. After a few weeks players will get it...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just watched the Weghorst goal that was disallowed again, and that was 100% handball by the Leeds player.

That’s what I thought. Although maybe doesn’t count because Weghorst is offside before the Leeds player handles it? Or some shit like that? Sure they make it up as they go along anyway.

 

[Shane88]

So Arsenal has received an apology. How about Brentford? Mbuemos perfectly good goal was chalked off for no reason. Nobody seems to be talking about this.

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So tired of refs bailing out shit defending.

"You fell over/were caught on the ball. No worries, mate. Foul."

 

[Pexbo]

Webb is at least trying to improve things. Hopefully we get semi auto offside and miked up officials from next season at least...

I'm all for properly enforcing dissent too, players are questioning every descision, in the refs face all game long. It's a yellow. After a few weeks players will get it...

Has there been any suggestion of this happening?

 

[Mb194dc]

Yes,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...versations-between-referees-and-var-vl2nf83ln

They're talking about snippets, but it's possible Webb will push for the whole thing I think.

If you want transparency, it's essential.

 

[arnie_ni]

That’s what I thought. Although maybe doesn’t count because Weghorst is offside before the Leeds player handles it? Or some shit like that? Sure they make it up as they go along anyway.

But he made genuine attempt to clear the ball so doesn't it all reset, 2nd phase of play and all that nonsense that allowed salahs goal against wolves to stand, even if maguire did touch it before him?

 

[Idxomer]

That’s what I thought. Although maybe doesn’t count because Weghorst is offside before the Leeds player handles it? Or some shit like that? Sure they make it up as they go along anyway.

He wasn't close to being offside when Elanga won the header.

 

[sullydnl]

Yes,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...versations-between-referees-and-var-vl2nf83ln

They're talking about snippets, but it's possible Webb will push for the whole thing I think.

If you want transparency, it's essential.

Really it's pretty ridiculous that they've tried to run VAR without this at all.

Compare to rugby where even if you get a debateable or dodgy decision via the TMO, you at least don't have the frustration of not really knowing why it was given.

 

[Faetheshire86]

I saw an incident like the Weghorst goal coming, when I heard Dermot Gallagher talking about the Casemiro incident. He basically said he would ignore the second angle of the incident, because he had already seen the first angle and it was "the definitive angle". The idea that you can tell the entire story from one angle is so flawed. The ball came towards Maguire's head and then changed directions, there for he touched it... when in fact he missed it, but the ball made contact with a player behind him, who you can't see from that single angle. I'm not mad at the decision. It was a tough call, but they need to stop focusing in on 1s of a single angle played at 0.25x speed, or even worse, a single frame of an incident.

That said, I think the reaction to a bad week for VAR has been entirely over the top. Because VAR is involved people are analysing every decision to the nth degree. Some of them wouldn't even have been discussed on Match of the Day before VAR and now Danny Murphy is having an aneurysm over them.

 

[cyberman]

Webb is at least trying to improve things. Hopefully we get semi auto offside and miked up officials from next season at least...

I'm all for properly enforcing dissent too, players are questioning every descision, in the refs face all game long. It's a yellow. After a few weeks players will get it...

What’s this based off of? If anything VAR has never been more hands off than it is now.
I’m calling it now, the Brentford goal wasn’t an accident. It was a ref who didn’t want to use VAR and made a point. He judged that by eye only on purpose, how can you forget to use lines. It’s absurd

 

[arnie_ni]

What’s this based off of? If anything VAR has never been more hands off than it is now.
I’m calling it now, the Brentford goal wasn’t an accident. It was a ref who didn’t want to use VAR and made a point. He judged that by eye only on purpose, how can you forget to use lines. It’s absurd

You can't forget to draw the lines. It's your only job in that scenario. Questions should definitely be asked.

 

[Red_toad]

@The Corinthian
If you wish to continue this is the correct thread

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He wasn't close to being offside when Elanga won the header.

No but was offside if Maguire got his head to it. I didn’t see enough replays to be certain but he might have got a touch.

 

[arnie_ni]

But he made genuine attempt to clear the ball so doesn't it all reset, 2nd phase of play and all that nonsense that allowed salahs goal against wolves to stand, even if maguire did touch it before him?

No but was offside if Maguire got his head to it. I didn’t see enough replays to be certain but he might have got a touch.

Would this not be applicable?

 

[Withnail]

Yes,

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...versations-between-referees-and-var-vl2nf83ln

They're talking about snippets, but it's possible Webb will push for the whole thing I think.

If you want transparency, it's essential.

Of course they're talking about snippets that they can edit, just in case. This is just lip service. That bunch of clowns have no interest in real transparency.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Would this not be applicable?

I don’t think so? If Maguire did deflect the ball then, at such close range, there’s no way the defender deliberately played the ball. It would have basically been an unintentional deflection off them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How do you still manage to feck up with video evidence?

This isn't a VAR problem, it's a referee problem, it's like giving an ipad to your 90 yesr old grandmother - you'd think the technology gap wouldn't be as apparent with these guys but they seemingly have no clue how to use it.

This fecking phrase is almost exactly as annoying and wrong-headed as the NRA’s catchphrase “guns don’t kill people, people do” (and much less forgivable as it isn’t the basis for a great Goldie Looking Chain lyric)

 

[arnie_ni]

This fecking phrase is almost exactly as annoying and wrong-headed as the NRA’s catchphrase “guns don’t kill people, people do” (and much less forgivable as it isn’t the basis for a great Goldie Looking Chain lyric)

I mean, I'm not sure I agree. If their was competent refs behind the var screen, wouldn't it be a great addition to the game? Getting the majority of decisions correct?

 

[arnie_ni]

I don’t think so? If Maguire did deflect the ball then, at such close range, there’s no way the defender deliberately played the ball. It would have basically been an unintentional deflection off them.

Hmm possibly. Either way,.they defo didn't look at it properly