VAR in Europe

Ikon

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So just been having a discussion with some English guys, who reckon that VAR is being deliberately sabotaged by officials in England because they don't want it implemented.
They argue that it works brilliantly in every other country in Europe and that fans there love it.
This seems a bit of a stretch to me, as I remember reading that penalties awarded in Spain and Italy have spiralled up to a ridiculous number, and a Dutch mate of mine tells me that VAR is hated in Holland.

So what's the truth of it from a European fans perspective?
 

hasanejaz88

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I think in Germany it is accepted as something that is flawed but ultimately the right step forward.

Mostly, I think it has worked although I would like to see more reversals of poor refereeing decisions. There aren't major stoppages that disrupt the match flow, nor has it changed the atmosphere around celebrations that people were fearful of initially, or are still paranoid over in England.
 

B20

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I think in Germany it is accepted as something that is flawed but ultimately the right step forward.

Mostly, I think it has worked although I would like to see more reversals of poor refereeing decisions. There aren't major stoppages that disrupt the match flow, nor has it changed the atmosphere around celebrations that people were fearful of initially, or are still paranoid over in England.
it clearly has.
 

hasanejaz88

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it clearly has.
95 percent of goals are celebrated as they normally are, it's not as if every goal has players panicking to wait for the referee's decision. That's enough of a sacrifice for better officiating.
 

Liver_bird

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So why is this league getting it so horrifically wrong? I have nowhere near the same trepidation with VAR in Europe. They seem to get most calls right, there have a been a few wrong ones but by and large mostly correct. Here each week we have referees that interpret it differently each week.

Is it time for PMGOL to go? Or should there be an independent regulator employed who are given clear guidelines and can hold the officials/VAR accountable. Greater transparency between the officials and the fans/players/clubs? Having someone able to come out and explain decisions with actual facts and be able to show us the difference between one tight call and another in terms of tangibles i.e the difference between Son being onside and mane being offside in the derby despite both looking identical. It would eliminate a lot of the conjecture.

Or maybe just outsourcing it to Europe? We’re in stockley park as is. Is there any harm in it being in Brussels or Berlin? These referees without the same level of attachment to the league and less preconceived biases, intentional or not.

It seems every league can implement this properly apart from us, they all have done the sensible thing and gone for 5 subs. We’re no doubt going to be massively fecked come the euros.
 

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I absolutely hate VAR. I never cheer a goal anymore unless it is 100% clear it won’t be ruled out.
 

Sassy Colin

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I think in Germany it is accepted as something that is flawed but ultimately the right step forward.

Mostly, I think it has worked although I would like to see more reversals of poor refereeing decisions. There aren't major stoppages that disrupt the match flow, nor has it changed the atmosphere around celebrations that people were fearful of initially, or are still paranoid over in England.
Which is the correct answer.

People are complaining that VAR is calling the correct decision and want to go back to being all on the ref to call the incorrect decision.

Considering half of 606 used to be people calling in raging about incompetent refs getting the big decisions wrong, now half of 606 is people calling in raging about VAR getting the big decisions right.

I'd rather have things right, even if it can be annoying sometimes, because you can't argue with the camera, than the ref allowing Drogba to score when he's 3 yards offside.
 

Liver_bird

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Which is the correct answer.

People are complaining that VAR is calling the correct decision and want to go back to being all on the ref to call the incorrect decision.

Considering half of 606 used to be people calling in raging about incompetent refs getting the big decisions wrong, now half of 606 is people calling in raging about VAR getting the big decisions right.

I'd rather have things right, even if it can be annoying sometimes, because you can't argue with the camera, than the ref allowing Drogba to score when he's 3 yards offside.
I do agree with this and a lot of the clamour to get rid of it is said heat of the moment when people are raging. On the whole VAR can be far more beneficial. But it does seem other leagues are implementing it far better than we are.
 

R'hllor

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VAR as a system is good and it will envolve to be even better. Donkeys that are using it and implementing is different matter.
 

Murray3007

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watched the german league when the lockdown was on, the VAR there is just as bad as here, CL is awful tae, for me its changed football but not for the better, to many subjective calls in football which is why it will never work, even offsides dont work as from different angles players can be on or off.
 

hasanejaz88

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Not really the season to be discussing the impact of VAR on celebrations/atmosphere in the ground, is it?
VAR has been around for longer than this season, it's in its fourth season in Germany. I haven't really noticed much change in celebrations.

People were making it seem as if every goal will bring about a cautious celebration because the ref might bring it back for a foul.
 

Pogue Mahone

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VAR has been around for longer than this season, it's in its fourth season in Germany. I haven't really noticed much change in celebrations.

People were making it seem as if every goal will bring about a cautious celebration because the ref might bring it back for a foul.
Ah. Ok. I definitely affected celebrations in the PL last season.
 

TheScriptwriter

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Which is the correct answer.

People are complaining that VAR is calling the correct decision and want to go back to being all on the ref to call the incorrect decision.

Considering half of 606 used to be people calling in raging about incompetent refs getting the big decisions wrong, now half of 606 is people calling in raging about VAR getting the big decisions right.

I'd rather have things right, even if it can be annoying sometimes, because you can't argue with the camera, than the ref allowing Drogba to score when he's 3 yards offside.
But thats the thing. If VAR was used for 3 yards offside or big mistakes, then no one will have a problem. But they use it to draw lines to look if the boot of the attacker is 5mm in front of the defender. Even then you can't be sure how are they making these lines.
 

FootballHQ

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Was it the Bundesliga last season when teams were going off for half time and ref watched a replay as they were going off and they had to come back on just to take the penalty? :lol:

Problems in europe aswell but at least they've been going to the pitchside monitor much more pretty much straight from the off while it's only been a main thing in premier league this season which I simply couldn't understand.
 

Anustart89

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Which is the correct answer.

People are complaining that VAR is calling the correct decision and want to go back to being all on the ref to call the incorrect decision.

Considering half of 606 used to be people calling in raging about incompetent refs getting the big decisions wrong, now half of 606 is people calling in raging about VAR getting the big decisions right.

I'd rather have things right, even if it can be annoying sometimes, because you can't argue with the camera, than the ref allowing Drogba to score when he's 3 yards offside.
The big problem with VAR is that we have evidence of calls being wrongly called on the pitch but they’re still being allowed because it doesn’t meet some incredibly high threshold (but which also varies from ref to ref) so we don’t get the consistency that we expected from VAR. It would be much better if VAR interventions were triggered by either the referee himself or by the involved teams (with a limit) so that the only thing needed to overturn the decision would be for the referee to think that decision B is better than decision A. Now, we get another referee who has multiple replays available that shows that decision B is better than decision A that was called on the pitch. However, due to A not being a grave error (which is ridiculously subjective as well) it’s allowed to stand anyway.
 

NotChatGPT

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Which is the correct answer.

People are complaining that VAR is calling the correct decision and want to go back to being all on the ref to call the incorrect decision.

Considering half of 606 used to be people calling in raging about incompetent refs getting the big decisions wrong, now half of 606 is people calling in raging about VAR getting the big decisions right.

I'd rather have things right, even if it can be annoying sometimes, because you can't argue with the camera, than the ref allowing Drogba to score when he's 3 yards offside.
I disagree.

People are complaining because the thresholds in place to prevent the «re-refereeing» of matches results in different outcomes based on coincidences. Like certain red and yellow cards this season.

Like the Arsenal goal that got disallowed against us last season, clear foul on Eriksen but the ref allowed play to continue. VAR stepped in and got it right, but somehow it’s ended up as an example of when VAR shouldn’t get involved because it doesn’t meet the threshold. Right decision but somehow a mistake, impressive.

Or as we’ve seen in quite a few matches, what the referee on the pitch decides then and there has too much of an impact on what VAR can do afterwards, even though the referee on the pitch might not have had a good view and made the decision in a split second. If he’s seen the situation and allows play to continue he’s set the bar extremely high for VAR to intervene. To the point where we’ve had almost identical situations but different outcomes in the same match, having a goal disallowed and then a goal against you for pretty much the exact same thing is a bit of a kick in the nuts. If the ref blows for the penalty the VAR won’t overturn it, if the referee doesn’t award the penalty then VAR won’t overturn it.

They’ve introduced delaying the flag for offside because they don’t want the linesman to get the big calls wrong and they know offside is black and white for VAR to handle afterwards. Why isn’t the same logic applied to referees making split-second calls on the pitch? The thresholds for VAR not to be involved shouldn’t really be there, instead we should have much more communication between the referee and the VAR. The referee on the pitch should simply say that he saw there was a situation in the build up, or a duel/whatnot, when the goal got scored but he was unsure of how much was actually in it and that he’d like to view the situation again.

For handball they’ve managed to introduce two very different set of rules depending on if the player is attacking or defending. Defending: They will take into account position of the arm, what you are doing in the situation, natural movement and all that, does the ball go via another part of your body first, via someone else etc. Essentially the logic way to look at it.

Attacking: Even the most accidental of accidental handballs is punished if you score directly from it, now matter how your arm is positioned. Unless you pass the ball to a teammate that scores, then it’s allowed.

For me, It’s bizarre that with VAR as a tool, referees/VAR will judge handballs completely differently depending on if the team is attacking or defending.

VAR and the referee on the pitch should be working much closer together, rather than the notion that VAR should only be there to get involved when there is a «clear and obvious mistake», simply because the threshold in place results in same situations but different outcomes in matches.
 

Anustart89

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You guys are quoting a post I made 2 1/2 years ago. Last season was a complete shit show and it's not VAR's fault if the person operating it is an idiot.
So you don't stand for what you posted just because a bit of time's passed? Didn't notice the post was that old, oops!
 

bazza3727

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You guys are quoting a post I made 2 1/2 years ago. Last season was a complete shit show and it's not VAR's fault if the person operating it is an idiot.
Indeed, roll on the introduction of AI for these VAR decisions!!
 

André Dominguez

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The biggest problem with VAR is still human factor. Once OpenAI takes over, things will improve :cool:
 

Mb194dc

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Certain teams in England seem to benefit from VAR. Mainly Liverpool but also Spurs.

Brighton got shafted last season. Mainly v those teams.

We benefited or neutral, so can't complain for last season anyway.

Just make it totally impartial. For me there's clear bias / agenda.

I do think Webb will improve things. Changing so offside has a more realistic margin of error will also hugely improve VAR.