That's true. quoting him ""I feel like my time here has ended, I want a change of air," Higuain said. "These have been seven intense, difficult, and happy years. It's hard, it's not easy but I think that I want to go to another club, (have) new challenges."
Victor Osimhen | out of options | goes to Gala on loan
- Thread starter L1nk
- Start date
- Status
That's true. quoting him ""I feel like my time here has ended, I want a change of air," Higuain said. "These have been seven intense, difficult, and happy years. It's hard, it's not easy but I think that I want to go to another club, (have) new challenges."
Appreciate the update. And just shows again, that while he has the known aerial threat, it's extremely obvious to most who have watched him play in Serie A where he's just physically superior, that his game will need to improve and adjust to PL defenders. United may not cross as much compared to others, but what about the quality? I know United's xA is higher than actual assists, just look at Bruno. It's bad. Just because Osimhen gets into the box doesn't mean United should cross at will to him, he himself has to learn how to work together with his teammates and play within more of a team-oriented attack. It would be interesting to see him work with Benni as I think he's been a great addition to the coaching staff.
EtH's previous teams are nothing like United nor the PL. He's never had a player like Marcus who is so direct and has shown his increased ability to score. Nor has EtH have a player to the levels of Bruno, Casemiro. Think FdJ is better than Eriksen, but still high quality passers of any variation. My main concerns are about Osimhen and Marcus having to understand each other and work together as both are final product players and Marcus isn't the best at servicing a main center forward. And secondly, the transfer fee. I'm more concerned about the transfer fee. It's going to be a massive outlay and it'll be north of 100M pounds. I'm okay if United 'only' sign 3 players this window, with one of them being Osimhen. But that probably won't be enough to help cover off of RB, CM x2, GK, CB. But I'd be okay with gradually developing the team and continue turning it over across 2 or 3 seasons more.
Very true but neither are Chelsea
Why are we using Drogba, a Cote de Ivory national, when Osimhen is Nigerian and idolised Ighalo? I understand Chelsea is linked to everyone under the sun and needs another CF and the connection of Drogba being a CF with his former club, etc. etc.....but really, this says everything.
They won liga with a record points total and goal haul before they were split up. Basically it didn't matter which of them he paired with. Goals flowed like water between them
United do not necessarily require a striker with loads of involvement in play to go to tje next level. Rather we neccesarily need one who is a constant menace and goal threat in the box. No one can convince me a player who offers everything weghorst does now, but with actual pace and actually goal theat would some hoe be a worse signing than a Kane. Who at 30 would actually be more expensive. Given the cost about 80-90 with zero resale value. Yet that is besides the crux of the matter. Frankly we must sign one of them. Both of them will suit us done to the ground no ifs buts or maybes. That is an insecapable truth. If we we fail we must at the very least find alternatives who fit their exact style as players.
Last edited:
I honestly dont understamd why people think Rashford must morph into a suppplier in chief just because we finally add an out and out none plaumaking cf who can take the goal scoring burden and defender attention off of him. I actually believe he'd thrive off of the help. It would almost be like operating in a front 2. Which would allow an antony on the opposing flank to utilize his playmaking skill further
Marcus doesn't have to morph, but he has to have more balance which means he has to think more rather be instinctual. He's much better when told to be direct and get into spaces and areas that allow him to shoot, all those things can be done without the ball...it's traits he's had since he came up to the senior team, which have been emphasized this season thus his goal tally. The less Marcus has to think on the ball - pass, shoot, hold up, wait for play, etc. the better. He's not in the same mindset of Bruno or Eriksen. He's a finisher. Osimhen is a finisher and guess what, they like to occupy similar spaces. Rooney and RVP occupied similar spaces and didn't come off during Year Moyes and LVG. It was only when Sir Alex deployed Rooney as a foil and he went back into his preferred ss/10 position with all things going through RVP. Osimhen can lead the line on his own, Marcus cannot, so they have to work together and get the best out of each other. That requires Marcus to be a little more of a Martinelli or Saka or even Grealish, which Marcus is not. Could he be, I have my doubts because that's not his strong suit nor is he technically capabile of those players. They are better passers with both feet, can dribble better than Marcus and retain ball possession in tight spaces better.
Yes, it can be like operating in a front 2 with the ball assuming the space is there, but then structurally off the ball and when they lose possession, the immediate press and counter press with 2 CFs narrow leaves gaps. Antony's playmaking skill seems to have higher potential with the impending signing of a better RB that suits the team better (e.g., Frimpong) going forward.
But again, signing Osimhen will require further evolution to the attacking line, whether it becomes more fluid or interchangable, etc. It would be exciting to see, but there's going to be a lot of work to be done and it maybe more different to what EtH and coaches have started to develop this year with Martial. Ever since Martial has gotten back into the squad and since he's made starts against Sevilla and Forest, the team have looked damn good in attack and chance creation. I don't think that's a coincidence.
I don't know much you've actually watched these players but this is wildly untrue. If Rashford occupied similar spaces to Osimhen we wouldn't have spent all season struggling for a presence in the opposition box.
Even when Osimhen does drift wide (into the spaces Rashford actually spends most of his time occupying and attacking from), it tend to be to the right hand side.
I don't know much you've actually watched these players but this is wildly untrue. If Rashford occupied similar spaces to Osimhen we wouldn't have spent all season struggling for a presence in the opposition box.
Even when Osimhen does drift wide (into the spaces Rashford actually spends most of his time occupying and attacking from), it tend to be to the right hand side.
When you're both playing CF, you're going to be both attacking the box. Marcus owns the left, that's obvious. Osimhen owns the center. When you make them narrow and attack as a up front 2, that's what you're getting...occupying the same space and are those touch heat maps, which I think they are?
Osimhen can lead the line himself and gets to make all the runs as the lone CF. If EtH wants to have a double edge sword with Osmihen and Marcus, it's going to change and they have to learn how to play off each other which is what they don't do respectively. Marcus isn't shooting from those heat map locations.
Where does Marcus try to run into and run from to get into the box and score. Show me where Marcus has scored in the box and where Osimhen has score from in the box, not where their touches are.
That's a bizarre line of thinking. Are you suggesting they shouldn't literally score from the same areas? Most goals will come from the same central locations within the box. Where would you like our new striker to be scoring from? The half way line, the corner flag?
I'm suggesting and question how well Osimhen and Rashford would play together when one (Osimhen) leads a line by himself and makes all the runs and movements into and within the spaces that Marcus has made from the left and when he goes into central positions that enable him (Marcus) to get shots off.
And as a left forward, Marcus needs to supply and pass to Osimhen, in the middle, more often than he's been asked to do this past season because regardless of the absence of Martial as the true CF for most of the season, Martial and Rashford link up very well and there's a balance between them of linkup play between them, goals, and getting others involved. Osimhen does not link play or facilitate play nearly as much as Martial or as effectively as Martial. Osimhen is the tip of the spear as it Marcus under EtH and Benni.
So if Osimhen signs for United, there's going to be another adjustment made to how he fits into the team and how the team accomodates his strengths, which are his off ball movement, pace, power, and finishing ability. But he's also a workhorse off the ball and a player who really needs proper CF service to be a goal threat.
Seemingly just one of a number of players Newcastle are looking at, all depends on which European competition they are in next season m, they have 3 different transfer budgets.
I mean we've seen Rashford play with Cavani in the recent past without issue and I'd expect to see more of the same with Osimhen who takes up similar positions to Cavani. I really don't see this as being an issue. You might find that Rashford's goal scoring drops up and his assists increase with a more dominant forward presence.
I'm not sure you've fully thought through the logic of what you're arguing here.
Rashford and Osimhen's goals heatmaps would of course show a massive overlap in location (i.e. central and in the box). Just as countless other players' on the same team do. Because that's the position players are more likely to score goals from. Which is why you want multiple players getting into and getting service in those high-value positions over and over again.
That doesn't tell you what areas of the pitch players actually occupy during games, as in where they spend most of their time, get most of their touches and attack from. In this case Osimhen high and central, Rashford on the left. But obviously both will be looking to get into the same general space (i.e. the space you're most likely to score goals from) to score goals.
You make it sound like only one player should be getting into those spaces. When our current problem is that we don't have players in those positions often enough, being overly dependent on Rashford to do so. Whichever striker we sign, they need to be getting goals from those positions or they won't get enough goals, nor will the team.
What would you expect the scoring pattern of complementary but prolific players to generally look like? One scoring a lot of goals in the box, the other doing it from other random areas of the pitch in defiance of probability?
Last edited:
But then at the end, they stick with Benzema who didn't have better scoring record, and continued doing so for years with Ronaldo-Benz combo even though Benzema's golascoring record was average (for a Madrid s striker). Doesn't it make you wonder why?
Think the days of striker duos are mostly gone anyways. But I think, you are right - assuming that a finisher is called a finisher because he isn't as involved in any "mundane" activities apart from getting into dangerous positions himself, there aren't many teams, who can afford that in terms of team structure and workload. And seeing the trends of the last years, I think, the need to have everybody working really hard in a team to maximize team output will only get more important. You have to be able to afford luxury items - the 2nd CR7 stint showed that not a long time ago.
Not to intervene, interesting exchange. Just want to chip in that I had the same doubts about your heatmaps as the poster does. Rashford more often as not starts from the left because he thrives when he has room to run into. He isn't your lone striker who is leading the line, he tries to avoid the CBs for as long as possible. Osimhen can hold his own better in the centre. I'd agree to the poster, that having both Osimhen (assuming he would play more or less the same way he does at Napoli now) and the current version of Rashford would require some adjustment as those guys (while certainly also benefitting from each other) would need to adjust to each other because, as somebody pointed out, Rashfords runs are instinctive and when those spaces are occupied, he is needed to adjust. There was a time, I think, the first full year under Ole, where we have seen a version of Rashford, that was the best version I've seen so far. A Rashford, whose first thought seemed to be creating play. Even if it meant, he wouldn't be the one finishing the chance. Everything afterward (and to some degree even the current very well-scoring version of him) didn't seem to be interested in creating to that degree at all. Getting on the end of stuff plus dribbling, thats his game now and, seeing that Osimhen would also be more focussed on getting to the end of stuff, it might be too much for a team like Manchester United as it is today.
Personally, I think Osimhen is a great striker. If we are to splash the cash, it'd be him over Kane on any day of the week. Given the current state of the squad, with quite a few holes to be adressed, I think, I'd try to be smart with the striker and bring in somebody, who wouldn't be snacking away the biggest part of the summer budget. Given that we are coming from a relatively low level in terms of striker, we don't have to pick from the highest possible shelf if we want to improve.
Regarding Rashford's relative goal threat & creativity, his actual stats are interesting in this regard. These are per 90, most recent season first.
Non-penalty goals: 0.57, 0.29, 0.34, 0.37, 0.39.
NPxG: 0.45, 0.21, 0.27, 0.44, 0.41.
The key thing I'm drawing attention to here is that while this is easily his best season in terms of his rate of his returns, his underlying goal threat is still just in line with his previous best seasons.
In other words this hasn't been a season where Rashford has become fundamentally more of a goal-threat than before. It's a season where he's been finishing hot. And regardless of who we sign at CF, that hot streak won't stay hot forever.
Meanwhile, in terms of creating chances.
Assists: 0.15, 0.15, 0.28, 0.24, 0.23
xAG: 0.11, 0.15, 0.12, 0.17, 0.19
In this case we see that while he is assisting fewer goals in the last two seasons, his underlying stats are again more steady than that suggests.
The broader point being that I wouldn't put much stock in the perception of him having radically changed as a player, become more of a goal threat or become significantly less creative. Because while his returns might give that impression, the more reliable (in terms of predictive value) underlying stats don't.
They tell us that this isn't a new Rashford. It's the same Rashford he's always been, just back in form and finishing hot at a time when we were relying on him more heavily due to the lack of goal threat elsewhere in the team.
They also tell us that he very much remains a secondary goal threat. So when you say Osimhen also being more focused on getting on the end of stuff might be an issue for this version of United, the slight contradiction there is that we fundamentally need someone who is going to be getting on the end of stuff a lot more than Rashford will. Which is hard to do if that isn't your focus in terms of the positions you take up.
Even if we signed a Kane who would be better able to drop deep and create for others, we'd still need him to also be getting in those central goalscoring positions a lot more often than Rashford does. Ditto any other striker. Because Rashford doesn't do it enough for you to plan around him being the main person doing it in your team.
Osimhen is a brilliant striker but I just don’t like his game. I won’t enjoy watching him play for us to be honest. Every time his goal contributions are mentioned, it just sounds untrue to me because I hardly watch him and think of him as a great difference maker.
Though this stance might not be definitive because he is still young and learning. There is also the aspect of how much of a step up to his game he is capable of when he moves to this environment. I’m not against us signing him but I don’t think he is currently better than Martial, so it’s not a given his progression will take him above that level.
What he has going for him is a particular drive and relentlessness to his game that is unmatched in football. When you combine that with his physical attributes, it should make a beautiful cocktail. Hopefully it’ll be a signing ETH already has a plan for and not just signing him because we need a top striker. RVN/Owen to Madrid are my reference on this.
Though this stance might not be definitive because he is still young and learning. There is also the aspect of how much of a step up to his game he is capable of when he moves to this environment. I’m not against us signing him but I don’t think he is currently better than Martial, so it’s not a given his progression will take him above that level.
What he has going for him is a particular drive and relentlessness to his game that is unmatched in football. When you combine that with his physical attributes, it should make a beautiful cocktail. Hopefully it’ll be a signing ETH already has a plan for and not just signing him because we need a top striker. RVN/Owen to Madrid are my reference on this.
Both will be lookig to get into the same general space, which then draws defenders into said space and distorts your spatial awareness. Look at how Weghorst made an off the ball run as the center forward for the 2nd goal against Forest with Sancho staying very wide on the left. I don't think Marcus would be that wide in an attacking transition within the final 3rd because they are not only different players but because their profiles are different. Sancho likes to link up and make the secondary pass to a primary pass/assist. The spatial awareness of Sancho to stay wide and occupy the RB, while understanding an underlapping run from the channel by Dalot is there which is taken, rips Forest apart for the 2nd goal. Sancho doesn't occupy the same goal scoring spaces or runs that Marcus does because they are different players with different skillsets.
If you're playing with 2 more central and dedicated CFs, they have to work together and one is typically a foil. Or you're interchanging up top, on the left/right, dropping deep, etc. like we've seen with Benzema/Ronaldo, Wayne/RVP, Wayne/RVN, Wayne/Chicharito, and probably the most prolific CF duo of United's PL era in Cole/Yorke.
So while EtH could try to make this forward line duo of Marcus and Osimhen, it's going to require a lot of adjustments and changes for the 3rd straight season in a row for Marcus and another big change for Osimhen. Osimhen is the man at Napoli, where all service goes to die and be buried by him for goals. I don't know if that's how it's going to be at United with Marcus and Osimhen on the same pitch with only 1 ball. You see the different variations of forward line play between the teams ahead of United currently and those of Spurs and Liverpool only because they have some prolific or used to be prolific goal scorers who can do a bit of everything. Ollie Watkins is a unique player for Villa who came from Brentford who can score a bit, defend/press, hold up the ball, etc. Another different player who isn't entirely relying on service and able to contribute outside of just goal scoring as a center forward.
If Martial was fit for most of the season, again not an out and out CF, a player who is able to move across the attacking lines and into midfield and get others into play and play pretty much any ball/pass or combination to unlock defenses for chance creation, he'd have about 8 to 10 goals in the league at least, which would have been good for at least 6 to 9 additional points which would put United within at least 5 points of City.
During the 18/19 season here's the output of Martial and Marcus (league G/A/G+A total contributions):
- Martial - 10/2/12 from 27 PL matches played
- Rashford - 10/6/16 from 33 PL matches played
And 19/20:
- Martial - 17/6/23 from 32 PL matches played
- Rashford - 17/7/24 from 31 PL matches played
Point being, that Osimhen is an exciting player and goal scorer and should do well and improve wherever he goes next. But the way he plays and how he's effective does not exactly fit into this current United side and will demand changes from everybody involved on that forward line, which is fine, but it doesn't promote continuity from year to year, so we'll have to be patient if EtH deploys them in a different role with different expectations. We cannot expect them to just roll the ball out and not make some compromises for the greater good of the team, yet expect them to score boatloads more goals.
In addition, the financial outlay will be massive and if he's the bulk of the transfer window, that's okay but also not okay. Would rather get the best player available who management and scouting identify and it takes more time to fill out the first team and starting XI because the budget is consumed by 1 or 2 players.
Kane is our top target. I can imagine by the time we are done chasing him or getting him, Osimhen would have changed clubs
His wife is german and she wants to live closer to her family according to some reports. Big chance he will go to Bayern. He fits their style and will score a lot of goals there like Lewandoski did. Big salary, guaranteed champions league every year and league trophy every year.
Kane is our top target i believe.
Kane is our top target i believe.
I don't get why this has picked up so much. Isn't this the case for every single footballer's girlfriend/wife who live abroad? It probably has zero impact on his next club. Premier League is the dream for Nigerians. It is the league to play in, and his salary will also be higher here than it would in Bayern. Coming to United under Ten Hag, he is also pretty much guaranteed Champions League every year.
This is one of the downsides of making Kane your top target. More than most transfers it's hard to imagine that deal not dragging on until the end of the summer.
Though tbf that might apply to Osimhen too given how tough Napoli are to buy from.
I think it has more impact than all of us know. They are not just footballers but also private persons with a family, kids and other things that could be important.
One of the reasons Frenkie isn’t coming to us is that he loves his life in Barcelona and his girlfriend loves their life in Barcelona. They don’t want to move away from their life in Barcelona.
I get that, but he has no relations to Germany. Germany isn't even that far from England, so she could literally take his private jet and fly over whenever she wants
I have huge doubts Osimhen wants to spend the rest of his career playing in Bundesliga because his girlfriend wants to live closer to her family, but I guess we'll see.Regarding Frenkie; Barcelona is his favourite team since he was young, so I think it comes down mostly to that. And, München isn't exactly Barcelona
I wouldnt undererstimate things like that.
Lewandowskis decision to go to Barcelona was heavily influenced by his wife and kids wanting to live at the sunny beach from all we heard.
I really hope Miss Osimhen can convince him to come back to germany
I wouldnt undererstimate things like that.
Lewandowskis decision to go to Barcelona was heavily influenced by his wife and kids wanting to live at the sunny beach from all we heard.
I really hope Miss Osimhen can convince him to come back to germany
I'd move in with a crackhead if it means him taking me to Barcelona to enjoy the sunny weather and fantastic beaches
It would be huge for you. I think Osimhen would be sensational in Bundesliga playing for you. I mean, just look at the chances you created last night against City. Massive upgrade on Choupo-Moting.
Well, statistically, players that have German's wives/gf usually play in Germany.
These Germans just don't want to leave Germany, do they? The power of schnitzels and bratwursts
These Germans just don't want to leave Germany, do they? The power of schnitzels and bratwursts
Probably they see others as inferior.
Statistically most players with German wives/gf are probably German too. Wild guess.
I'm not surprised. Most likely because German's women see German's men as superior also.
Not sure this is going anywhere good
Probably best to end this episode of Pulled out of my arse statistics Not sure this is going anywhere good
Draft forum is always better. Get back there, man. They're shitting on Montero there.What!?!?
Posts that feel Nazi but aren't
on my defense, i have German's friends and they're very nice people. Very handy, too.Bayern gives him a higher probability to win titles and probably won't pay much less than United, if it is less at all.
And there is another aspect I do wonder about (and which I missed being mentioned before): He was a complete failure in his first time in Germany. Maybe he wants to rectify his image here and wants to make peace with the league which just was to big for him when he tried it the first time. So far the only good thing he got in Germany seems to be his girlfriend.
Higher probability to win Bundesliga. But they do every year anyway, and it's not really a competition.
He played 280 minutes total at the age of 18. Hardly a complete failure?
He had to move to the Belgian league after this one season, which shows that he was seen as a failure and not good enough for the Bundesliga. He worked his way up and rightfully currently is valued extremely high, but he definitely still has that memory of not being considered good enough for the BL.
- Status