Violence in France

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
I doubt they care about the expulsion.

Hooligans all over Europe are still hunting English fans for their historical glory. Their team sucks, so they're not focused to the games, but to the stands.
Turks are stabbing English fans, Italians are stabbing English fans, everyone's against English fans, wherever they show up.

Russian and Polish hooligans are far beyond football, they're trained MMA fighters, kick-boxers etc. Fighting in the forests and stuff like that - complete insanity, that's way too much even for the hardest maniacs on the terraces.
This is true. When England was in Zagreb I saw some teenagers, who thought they're hard core and all, attacking English on the street and even in trams, out of sudden, not provoked or anything, cause it's cool to attack them. It's the English, they're all hooligans. At least that what's that little morons thought. Generally there were few incidents and England fans were well behaved, not one incident happened.

but that's one example of English fans past glory so to say. There Russians are stuck in the past and want to prove their worth now in 2016.
 

Sarni

nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
57,741
Location
Krakow
I doubt they care about the expulsion.

Hooligans all over Europe are still hunting English fans for their historical glory. Their team sucks, so they're not focused to the games, but to the stands.
Turks are stabbing English fans, Italians are stabbing English fans, everyone's against English fans, wherever they show up.

Russian and Polish hooligans are far beyond football, they're trained MMA fighters, kick-boxers etc. Fighting in the forests and stuff like that - complete insanity, that's way too much even for the hardest maniacs on the terraces.
Polish fans have caused zero trouble at this or any other major tournament recently. We have hooligans here but they're hardly ever present at stadiums and they hardly ever travel abroad too. They fight between themselves but strangers are very rarely in any sort of danger. We organized a major competition, people in England were crazy worried that there'd be trouble and we were pictures as some third world dangerous country of racists - it turned out we were quite hospitable and there was zero issues.
 

Hitch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
133
Location
London

As Esmufc said: UEFA has handed Russia a suspended disqualification and a 150,000 Euro fine.

Does this mean that they're on their final warning?
To be clear, it's only if there's any more violence from Russian fans in the stadium that they'll get DQ'd. UEFA has no jurisdiction to punish the team for incidents outside.
 

captain666

Full Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
567
Location
Philippines
The French have never been able to defend their country let alone a football match!
This was a highly organised Russian crew with backing from the top level of government,the message is simple 'Don't mess with Russia'
 

rcoobc

Not as crap as eferyone thinks
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
41,701
Location
C-137
England & Wales are heading to Lens, one of the smallest EURO2016 towns to play at a laughably small capacity venue which is close to Calais (so even more fans are expected). Even putting aside for a moment, the fact that the Welsh will also turn up in numbers, Lens stadium has a total capacity of approx. 10,000 less than the number of English fans who turned up to the game Saturday night.

England and Welsh fans without tickets have been unbelievably asked to head to nearby Lille, where the Russian fans will be playing on Wednesday.

Meanwhile, much further south, 60,000 seater Lyon stadium will host the match between Albania & Romania.

All because UEFA allocate the grounds first and the fixtures fall as they fall once drawn … genius planning!
It's been ridiculously terrible. England vs Russia was on at 8pm on a Saturday night (9pm Local, 10pm Moscow time), in a place where security is crap and violence is expected. England vs Wales is on at 2pm on a Thursday in a tiny stadium.

I don't mind that it's near Calais though, that seems sensible... as long as the town/city/stadium can handle a huge crowd. Which it can't.
 

Vanitas

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
597
Location
Belgrade, Serbia
Polish fans have caused zero trouble at this or any other major tournament recently. We have hooligans here but they're hardly ever present at stadiums and they hardly ever travel abroad too. They fight between themselves but strangers are very rarely in any sort of danger. We organized a major competition, people in England were crazy worried that there'd be trouble and we were pictures as some third world dangerous country of racists - it turned out we were quite hospitable and there was zero issues.
Sure, I didn't say anything about Polish fans on this tournament. But, back in 2012, Russians were attacked several times by Polish fans.
I remember the BBC documentary about racism in Poland, named Stadiums of Hate, but none of the predicted actually happened, as I recall.

That obsession with banners is amazing. Just look at the Russians grabbing every piece of textile they can get and later turning it upside down for a group photo.


@ captain666

No government support in this, be sure.
Stuff like this is usual in Russia:



Just look at the gloves.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,939
Location
France
Polish fans have caused zero trouble at this or any other major tournament recently. We have hooligans here but they're hardly ever present at stadiums and they hardly ever travel abroad too. They fight between themselves but strangers are very rarely in any sort of danger. We organized a major competition, people in England were crazy worried that there'd be trouble and we were pictures as some third world dangerous country of racists - it turned out we were quite hospitable and there was zero issues.
It's the same thing in France, they generally do their stupid things between them on empty parking lots. I'm surprised that they involved other people in their BS.
 

Sarni

nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
57,741
Location
Krakow
Sure, I didn't say anything about Polish fans on this tournament. But, back in 2012, Russians were attacked several times by Polish fans.
I remember the BBC documentary about racism in Poland, named Stadiums of Hate, but none of the predicted actually happened, as I recall.
That was a terrible documentary that had very little to do with how it is in Poland.

Russian and Polish fans basically fought between themselves but these were not some random groups either. Vast majority of participants were fighting there because they wanted to, not because they were attacked/provoked.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,939
Location
France
England & Wales are heading to Lens, one of the smallest EURO2016 towns to play at a laughably small capacity venue which is close to Calais (so even more fans are expected). Even putting aside for a moment, the fact that the Welsh will also turn up in numbers, Lens stadium has a total capacity of approx. 10,000 less than the number of English fans who turned up to the game Saturday night.

England and Welsh fans without tickets have been unbelievably asked to head to nearby Lille, where the Russian fans will be playing on Wednesday.

Meanwhile, much further south, 60,000 seater Lyon stadium will host the match between Albania & Romania.

All because UEFA allocate the grounds first and the fixtures fall as they fall once drawn … genius planning!
38k places is laughably small?
 

Vanitas

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
597
Location
Belgrade, Serbia
Just a short story to explain how far everything is going in that world.

CSKA Moscow and Partizan Belgrade fans are brothers. Spartak Moscow and Red Star Belgrade fans are brothers.

A few years ago, CSKA fans stopped a vehicle in which were the flags of Spartak Moscow fans and also a flag of one the strongest Red Star Belgrade fan groups. So, Partizan's fans asked the CSKA fans to send them that Red Star banner, so they could burn it at the next Belgrade derby.
But, CSKA fans made a deal with Spartak Moscow fans to schedule a fight. Whoever fins it, gets to keep the banners. CSKA lost the fight, Spartak got their banners back and Partizan's fans were upset about that.

Insane.

That was a terrible documentary that had very little to do with how it is in Poland.

Russian and Polish fans basically fought between themselves but these were not some random groups either. Vast majority of participants were fighting there because they wanted to, not because they were attacked/provoked.
I think there were some smaller incidents with regular people involved, but you're right.
I'be been reading some posts on other forums about Russians and Ukrainian joining their forces to attack Polish fans in the following days. Nothing's over yet, unfortunately.
 

baanke laal

banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
2,091
Location
Vishaal Garh
Riot police stop coach-load of Russian fans believed to be preparing ATTACKS on English

SUSPECTED Russian Ultras feared to be heading to Lille to attack England supporters at Euro 2016 have been intercepted by armed police.

Officers stopped a coach which had picked up around 50 Russians from a hotel in Cannes on the south coast of France.
It comes just after raids on took place on a series of addresses in Cannes, as well as Marseille 110 miles away.

Police are targeting groups of Russian supporters after failing to arrest a single hooligan following the riots surrounding Saturday’s game against England in Marseille. More than 150 Moscow Ultras, described by police as “hyper-violent”, are feared to be plotting a second round of attacks on Welsh and English fans in Lille.

France is looking to send those taken into custody back to Russia after seizing their passports, according to Alexander Shprygin, the head of a supporters' group. However, he denies they have been involved in trouble.

He said: “They want to deport almost 50 people including women who did not take part in anything. “The police are making up for their mistakes three days ago."
“We are in a bus in Cannes and we have been blocked in by riot police.
“We are not going anywhere for the time being and are waiting for the consul.”

UEFA’s disciplinary panel meets this afternoon in Paris to consider charges against Russia for the stadium flares, violence and racist banners at the Stade Velodrome on Saturday. Last night FA chairman Greg Dyke said the association has “serious concerns” about security in Lille, where England fans have already arrived despite Russia's second group stage game in the city on tomorrow.

In a letter to Uefa, Mr Dyke rejected the suggestion that England fans were at fault for scenes inside the Stade Velodrome following the match with Russia.

He said: “The implication in your jointly-addressed letter is that English fans were in part responsible for the terrible incidents at the end of the match with Russia. “This is contradicted both by the video evidence and by the fact your independent disciplinary bodies have only instigated sanctions against the Russian Football Union.”

Meanwhile, Theresa May, the Home Secretary, said the French government must ask itself "searching questions" of the "deeply disturbing" violence.

On Monday six England fans, including a psychiatric nurse and an apprentice engineer, were jailed for at least a month each and banned from France.

Ms May said some England fans had behaved "inexcusably", but added: "The French and UEFA will rightly be asking themselves searching questions about how the segregation of fans within the Vélodrome stadium broke down." Both the French Government and France are under intense pressure to avoid more trouble, with Russia's next game taking place just 24 miles away from England's match against Wales on Thursday.

Last night the Football Association of Wales revealed French authorities were made aware of a “powerful group of Russian thugs” arriving in France last week. In Marseille, Brice Robin, the chief prosecutor, admitted his officers were overwhelmed after violence involving English, Russian and locals erupted in the city.

The organised paramilitary-style Russian Ultras were "hyper-rapid", "hyper-violent", he said.

Every member of the organised unit which ambushed drunk fans inside and outside the Stade Velodrome managed to evade police.
 

rcoobc

Not as crap as eferyone thinks
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
41,701
Location
C-137
Have a look at this - from Russia Today https://www.rt.com/sport/346588-russian-fans-deport-france/
A bus with some 50 Russian fans has been blocked on its way to Lille, where the Russia-Slovakia Euro 2016 match will take place, and searched by around 100 French police officers, the fans said, adding that they fear deportation.
The concerns were voiced by Aleksandr Shprygin, head of the Russian Supporters Union.

“We’ve been told that [all fans] in the bus will be deported. We are waiting for the [Russian] consul, but the French police threaten to use force,” Shprygin told TASS on Tuesday. Lille is scheduled to host the Russia-Slovakia match on Wednesday.

“It’s a disgrace, why are they deporting an official fan group who has nothing to do with Marseille violence? We believe they are just making up for their failures,” he added.

On Tuesday, French police searched the bus for alleged drugs and weapons, asking the fans to get out of their vehicle.
So far, I'm sympathetic. It's not fair that the french are picking on an a Russia bus of fans. But wait.
The supporters refused and demanded to speak with the Russian consul, the police officers threatened to use force, Shprygin claimed on his Twitter.
The supporters refused to get off the bus? Are you kidding?
In the end, police reportedly agreed to wait for the consul to arrive. Speaking to RIA Novosti by phone, Shprygin alleged that riot police, armed with assault rifles and Tasers, sought three times to storm the bus. Later, he said on Twitter that two people on the bus felt unwell and ambulances had to be summoned.
So there were riot police there, they threatened to storm the bus, and they still wouldn't get off? Are you kidding?
 

Sarni

nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
57,741
Location
Krakow
I think there were some smaller incidents with regular people involved, but you're right.
I'be been reading some posts on other forums about Russians and Ukrainian joining their forces to attack Polish fans in the following days. Nothing's over yet, unfortunately.
I wanted to go to Poland v Ukraine game (my mate even sorted out a private jet for us, man I'd be traveling on a fecking private jet) but opted not to because I fear there'll be trouble. Any game in Marseille is potential danger, with possible presence of Russian thugs it gets even worse.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,939
Location
France
Assuming it's split three ways - English, Welsh and the Neutrals, that is just over 10k seats for the English.

A 60k stadium would be much better.
It doesn't make it laughably small.
 

rcoobc

Not as crap as eferyone thinks
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
41,701
Location
C-137
It doesn't make it laughably small.
True.

But it depends on the context. Maybe he isn't quite saying the stadium is "laughably small", but that it's a "laughably small" stadium to host England vs Wales.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,197
Location
...
I'm not sure the Welsh are made of the same stuff as some of the English, I hope the Russians don't tear them apart.
 

Honest John

Full Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Messages
8,352
Location
Hampshire
Likely as not th
I'm not sure the Welsh are made of the same stuff as some of the English, I hope the Russians don't tear them apart.
don't be so sure about them not being like the English but the Russians are in a different league in this situation
 

Rome or Mandalay

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
82
Location
it's not where you are it's where your at!
I'm no expert on French policing (or policing at all, for that matter) but as an outsider the only impression I ever tend to get is that they're a little bit feckless.

Feel free to correct me, of course. But the anti-English "they're all steaming, trouble-making wankers" rhetoric lives somewhat in the past. Whether or not this sentiment has anything to do with the (seemingly) instant use of tear gas is another matter that remains to be seen.

Bit shit all round, really.
I couldn't agree more, I have watched United in Marseilles, Bordeaux, Lyon, Lille, Lens, Monaco,and Paris the french police are have only i reaction to hit out at anything that moves, if you are drinking and English you are a hooligan they don't get the concept that you can drink and have a good time, they are not used to large groups of away supporters and they are always hyper, me and the lads i go with learnt years ago to stay away from the town centers, you weren't subjected to random attacks from opposition fans or even worse the police wading in if they perceive things as unruly, the police in Portugal are only slightly better, if anyone remembers Boavista
 

SocccerNomics

Full Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
267
Location
LDN
Have a look at this - from Russia Today https://www.rt.com/sport/346588-russian-fans-deport-france/

So far, I'm sympathetic. It's not fair that the french are picking on an a Russia bus of fans. But wait.

The supporters refused to get off the bus? Are you kidding?

So there were riot police there, they threatened to storm the bus, and they still wouldn't get off? Are you kidding?
Aleksandr Shprygin, Head of the Russian Supporters Organisation, is reportedly a right-wing extremist with very close links to the ultras. He is also part of the official Russian FA delegation at the tournament.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ia-fans-euro-2016-violence-alexander-shprygin
 

Dans

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
26,972
Location
Oberbayern
Likely as not th


don't be so sure about them not being like the English but the Russians are in a different league in this situation
Those Russian cnuts are in a different world. They should be being arrested and prosecuted for attempted murder.
 

K2K

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
18,367
Location
"Can Manchester United score? They always score"
The French have never been able to defend their country let alone a football match!
This was a highly organised Russian crew with backing from the top level of government,the message is simple 'Don't mess with Russia'
Where is the evidence that this was goverment backed though?

Propaganda ,either from the West of the East is equally as stupid.

Maybe it's just thugs,who regardless of nationality seem hellbent on causing trouble.
 

Dans

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
26,972
Location
Oberbayern
Aleksandr Shprygin, Head of the Russian Supporters Organisation, is reportedly a right-wing extremist with very close links to the ultras. He is also part of the official Russian FA delegation at the tournament.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ia-fans-euro-2016-violence-alexander-shprygin
What a surprise.

All sent over by mad Putin. That's what happens when you let a country go to ruin and can only save face by going on the Russia is great and to be feared the world over trip.
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,197
Location
...
Likely as not th


don't be so sure about them not being like the English but the Russians are in a different league in this situation
Wouldn't surprise me to see a Wales and England alliance of sorts. The Russians have basically taken Kings Landing now.

Heaven knows what the next World Cup will be like, but it must surely be under serious reconsideration.
 

Dans

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
26,972
Location
Oberbayern
Where is the evidence that this was goverment backed though?

Propaganda ,either from the West of the East is equally as stupid.

Maybe it's just thugs,who regardless of nationality seem hellbent on causing trouble.
If it wasn't backed, or let's say, not condemned, wouldn't any normal responsible PM/President come out and speak out against what his countrymen are doing abroad?
 

Rozay

Master of Hindsight
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
27,197
Location
...
This is the scum who filmed it (leftmost), internet detectives found his pic:

The guy in that hat has popped up in a number of pics and vids I've seen. Seems to be one of the most prominent. I even recall him from the fighting in the stadium.
 

Oyibo

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
436
Location
Lagos
Am happy about the police intervention. This is a seriously organised bunch.

As for trouble between England and Welsh fans, best thing they could do would be to stick together against this Russian firm, Safety in numbers and all that. Even 150 nutters can't batter several thousand men if they stick together, and not get picked off.
 

SocccerNomics

Full Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
267
Location
LDN

As Esmufc said: UEFA has handed Russia a suspended disqualification and a 150,000 Euro fine.

Does this mean that they're on their final warning?
So basically Russia has got away with it if the French improve stadium policing and have deported some/all of the ultras.
€150k fine is immaterial and insufficient to force Russia to address how it allows known ultras to travel and get match tickets.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
Am happy about the police intervention. This is a seriously organised bunch.

As for trouble between England and Welsh fans, best thing they could do would be to stick together against this Russian firm, Safety in numbers and all that. Even 150 nutters can't batter several thousand men if they stick together, and not get picked off.
This.
THose Russians don't care about the Police so if they attack Welsh and English should ally.

I'm not for violence against violence but sometimes you need to defend yourself.
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
21,719
Location
USA
If it wasn't backed, or let's say, not condemned, wouldn't any normal responsible PM/President come out and speak out against what his countrymen are doing abroad?
Honest question. Did the English PM apologize/condemn every time there was hooliganism by some English fans in 80s and 90s?
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,939
Location
France
I want to blame the police but at the same time I feel like an armchair policeman. The hooligans don't move in huge groups, they are smart enough to create dozens of little groups that will converge discretly to a point and when they are there it's too late.
 

DOTA

wants Amber Rudd to call him a naughty boy
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
24,504
Honest question. Did the English PM apologize/condemn every time there was hooliganism by some English fans in 80s and 90s?
I wasn't around but given she hated football fans I'd be surprised if she wasn't very critical of them.
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
21,719
Location
USA
Exactly, the punishment should be a points deduction or immediate disqualification. Not a final warning and irrelevant fine.
Possible reasons:

- Probably dont want to go overboard for actions of certain fans.
- If they take such immediate disqualification, they will have set a benchmark. So next time a bunch of 100 fans from any nation indulge in fights, they will have to ban all those nations too.