Wasting your career/talent.

[matherto]

So obviously this is popping up in the Pogba thread.

We often say it about a lot of people in a lot of careers but especially football fans with players.

It always feels like we’re trying to live vicariously through them and exploit their talents so we can feel better, appealing to the romantic side of the game/life and thus when players don’t do what we think they can do they get called wasters

I don’t think it is though.

Most footballers start from feck all. Some of the very best have come from some absolute poverty and desperation in childhood and let’s face it, the majority of them wouldn’t be achieving much academically so they get to use their talent instead.

The chances of having any career in professional football are tiny. To then have any success even tinier. Someone like Pogba who’s won it all or near enough at least getting the ‘what a waste’ treatment because we expected more in his late 20’s/30’s seems a bit silly to me cause he’s won everything and made a life off the back of it.

See it often said with players where injury ruins things and that makes a bit more sense to me but it still all feels like it’s a waste to us whereas any professional footballer has already achieved what would be a dream to most of them (most because not all of them actually like football or want to be footballers, they’re just extremely talented at it).

They don’t owe us anything. They barely know we exist. Are they really thinking what a waste in the same way we are?

So who’s wasting things, them or us with our own lives?

 

[horsechoker]

You've wasted my time with this thread

Joking

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Pogba getting banned until he is 35 is wasting the talent, injuries started first though.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I've always taken it to just mean 'hasn't quite achieved all that they could have in their sport given their ability' - and often for reasons related to injury or seemingly 'losing the desire' to put in the hard work to reach / stay at the top for as long as their ability would suggest possible.

Obviously being a professional footballer and making loads of money and seemingly thoroughly enjoying their social life isn't a 'waste'. But if you're looking at the likes of Ronaldinho and George Best, I think it's fair to say that, from a footballing point of view, they mostly 'wasted' the second half of their careers - mostly by being wasted!

Obviously they didn't waste their career, as they achieved more in the first half of it than most do over their entire careers. But it feels like they could have achieved even more had they kept the hunger and desire for the game past their mid-20's. And I guess that's the context some might be using it about Pogba. I doubt many are dismissing what he achieved until his mid 20's, but are talking about the rest. That he achieved plenty early on, but there could / should have been even more to come in the rest of it. And it's that part that feels the waste in terms of judging their career as a whole.

 

[noodlehair]

Pogba is literally banned from playing football. Unless his talent is avoiding playing football then he is by default wasting his talent.

 

[SambaBoy]

Only the individual can say really.

Like the OP said it's incredibly hard to make it as a professional footballer at any level, never mind in the PL, CL and international stage. I don't think most can fathom how talented these guys are and what they have to sacrifice at some point to make it to that level. They aren't just given the talent at 16 and then try and make a career of it.

So yeah they might want the best of both worlds, play at the highest level, stack money and play infront of thousand of fans every week whilst also enjoying their fame and money. The majority of the time that's going to be detrimental to your football career but it doesn't mean it's unfulfilled talent. Not every professional footballer wants to drain every ounce of talent/potential out of themselves.

There's been a few footballers who don't really care about football or how the teams perform, they play because they enjoy it and the money that comes with it and what it allows them to do outside of football.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Agree, most fans are cnuts.

 

[noodlehair]

Only the individual can say really.

Like the OP said it's incredibly hard to make it as a professional footballer at any level, never mind in the PL, CL and international stage. I don't think most can fathom how talented these guys are and what they have to sacrifice at some point to make it to that level. They aren't just given the talent at 16 and then try and make a career of it.

So yeah they might want the best of both worlds, play at the highest level, stack money and play infront of thousand of fans every week whilst also enjoying their fame and money. The majority of the time that's going to be detrimental to your football career but it doesn't mean it's unfulfilled talent. Not every professional footballer wants to drain every ounce of talent/potential out of themselves.

There's been a few footballers who don't really care about football or how the teams perform, they play because they enjoy it and the money that comes with it and what it allows them to do outside of football.

Of course its unfulfilled talent. Its no different to any other sport. To be at the very top level there is a fairly high level of discipline and self sacrifice required, and sometimes a degree of luck. Not everyone has all of those things.

If you take three equally talented athletes in any sport. One is fully focused on being the best they can be and will do whatever it takes, One is focused but just happy to get to a level of success, and the third is lazy/thinks they can get by on talent alone - The first is almost invariably going to be more successful than the other two, and the last will often not be successful at all, or if they are only for a brief period. The only real varying factor that can influence this is whether they have good coaches/a good environment around them.

Either way there is a degree of unfulfilled talent.

Whether its fair for people who never had that talent in the first place to judge people who didn't make the most of it is another matter. I mean, it isn't fair because you don't know any individual's circumstances enough to possibly make that judgement, or say you would have done any better, or even know whether where they've ended up was best for them (e.g. if their family was more important to them than their career)....but it doesn't change whether or not they fulfilled their potential if you look at it purely from a talent perspective. It just means that football fans are judgmental twats who take it all far too seriously...which we are.

 

[matherto]

Pogba is literally banned from playing football. Unless his talent is avoiding playing football then he is by default wasting his talent.

He's already used his talent to win everything though?

Surely that's the point of playing professional football in the first place?

 

[rimaldo]

i reckon could have made it as a porn star if i didn’t have such an under-sized knob and wasn’t so rubbish in bed.

 

[matherto]

i reckon could have made it as a porn star if i didn’t have such an under-sized knob and wasn’t so rubbish in bed.

Plenty of porn out there catering for that kinda thing.

I mean, not that I've watched it, I'm just guessing. Honest.

 

[stepic]

think you're taking it a little too literally. of course he is still incredibly rich, never has to work again, had a decent career all in all, etc etc. but still, he looked at one point to be a generational talent. he never reached that and now will end his career with this cloud over his head. so in that sense, yes, it's a bit of a waste from what he could have achieved.

 

[didz]

When fans say a player has wasted their talent, I wouldn't take it literally. They're essentially saying that a player should have provided them with more entertainment than they have done. It's pretty much a more emotionally charged version of "failed to live up to expectations."

 

[kaku06]

i reckon could have made it as a porn star if i didn’t have such an under-sized knob and wasn’t so rubbish in bed.

You must be taking the piss, surely.

 

[matherto]

When fans say a player has wasted their talent, I wouldn't take it literally. They're essentially saying that a player should have provided them with more entertainment than they have done. It's pretty much a more emotionally charged version of "failed to live up to expectations."

Well this is it. It's us saying it's a waste which is silly. He doesn't owe us any more football/performances/trophies/individual awards so it makes no sense.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Well this is it. It's us saying it's a waste which is silly. He doesn't owe us any more football/performances/trophies/individual awards so it makes no sense.

Depends how he copes with being known as a drug cheat. Not a great way to end up.

 

[Plant0x84]

Are they really thinking what a waste in the same way we are?

I feel you are looking at this in too materialistic a way. It’s not about money or trophies or possessions. It’s more about a waste of potential or talent. It’s a human emotion to feel sorrow or pity for a perceived loss. It’s almost grieving in a way.
I’d imagine Pogba is devastated by this ruling. Football is all he’s known since he was a child and that part of his life is potentially over and gone forever.
If you look at Phil Jones he is bound to have frustrations and regrets about never quite reaching his career goals, despite undoubtedly working hard to overcome his injuries and live up to his full potential.
Likewise somebody like Morrison or Greenwood will have regrets that their career didn’t reach the heights their talents promised through their own actions and choices in life. Obviously MG still has a chance to turn that around but it’s unlikely to be exactly what it could have been if he had continued to shine for United.
I’d argue the player involved feels this waste more acutely than the fans. I don’t think it’s about them owing us anything either.

The chances of having any career in professional football are tiny.

Which makes it all the more a shame/waste of talent when they are prevented from playing football by bans, injuries or misdemeanours outside of the game.

 

[Big Andy]

Is it wasted if he’s a multi multi millionaire?

 

[matherto]

Is it wasted if he’s a multi multi millionaire?

Well I mean, money isn't everything but in the context (albeit I don't know Pogba's specific circumstances as a kid for instance) of coming from nothing, making it through all the trials, winning everything and becoming rich as feck I don't think it is.

But clearly to a lot of people they want more. I do get that we're emotional about things of course but it always feels like we expect a lot more when on paper someone has achieved a feckload and can probably be quite okay with it. I know I'm guilty of it with Ronaldo (R9) and Rooney as injury wise versus the talent I can only imagine what they could've been in my perfect world but they still won everything and had amazing careers playing in amazing teams all around the world.

I do suspect @DomesticTadpole might be onto something with how he feels he's perceived later in his life but he's got a ton to show for his career/life so far really.

 

[noodlehair]

He's already used his talent to win everything though?

Surely that's the point of playing professional football in the first place?

A) He hasn't won everything. He's never won a Champions League, or a Premier League. The two biggest trophies a player of his talent should be winning given the clubs he's played for.

B) You're asking whether he is wasting his talent. His talent is playing football, which he's managed to get himself banned from doing. Therefore he is wasting his talent and to suggest otherwise flies in the face of hard facts and is foolish.

C) This also follows a prolonged period of goofing around with voodoo blackmail and gun mafias and playing barely any football. Which in itself followed a prolonged period of goofing around and struggling to be an asset rather than a liability for an underachieving Man Utd side.

D) He is one of the most talented players ever to play for Man United - arguably the most high profile team in the world. Yet the prevailing memory of him at United will be things like the time he took about 5 minutes doing a silly run up for a penalty.

I think he's pretty much THE prime example of wasted talent. Yes he was still very successful compared to a majority of other players, but the gap between how good he was and how good he could have been is an absolute chasm.

Just the mere fact I'm using the term "was" when he's only 30 years old. He could be one of if not the best midfielder/AM in the world, right now. He's younger than Kevin De Bruyne

 

[Redstain]

Good points, becoming a footballer like any elite sport is difficult, but the notoriety of the players and their personal fame is not the fault of the individuals but the markets (endorsements, branding, TV viewership). If you know a football player personally or grow up with one and they played at championship level their whole career that is successful from my perspective. It's only when we consider the globalization of the sport that it accentuates the expectation around winning world cups, UCL etc but not everyone's career will be reflective of that trajectory.

It's no different in business, just because someone who runs a PLC doesn't get funding via venture capital and float IPO but instead runs a local domestic entity, we can't personify them as not being successful by comparison.

Pogba's biggest mistake if anything was coming to United when his personal achievements was at an ascendancy. On this forum I hear this heralded excuse for the managers poor performance as being down to structure but by that same merit the players should also fall under the same liberation. So by definition football players are successful in attribution to their economic / societal needs (which is the function behind the job sector as a whole) but when talking about accoutrements of sporting prestige some will be unsuccessful.