We are bottlers

[siw2007]

I won’t say that the players bottled it last night. I hate the phrase bottled it anyway, but that penalty shootout was high pressure and the lads did very well in those circumstances.

However, if I must use the phrase ‘bottled it’, I would apply it to Ole who fell into the temptation of playing both Rashford and Greenwood in the starting line up when we only needed one of them with Pogba further forwards to give us much needed craft in the final third.

 

[izec]

The more I think about it, the more the bottler tag seems true. Nobody on our team realty tried to win the game, besides Scott McTominay.

Nobody tried to take the initiative for us. I think back to the Euro 2016 final. Portugal weren't great but Eder decided to try and win it, took a pot shot from distance and voila. Where was that from us? We had three shots on target. We didn't really test the goalie.

This season, when faced with packed defences we have found answers. Playing against a low block is not a new challenge for us. The likes of Pogba and Bruno have broken the deadlock in games like that. Think about Pogba scoring against West Ham, Burnley, Fulham etc. Last night nobody even tried. We didn't even get the customary Marcus Rashford 30 yard drive.

We didn't really try to test Villarreal's keeper. We tried to play through them for 120 minutes instead of going around the outside or just taking some shots and seeing if we could get lucky on the rebound. When you've got Cavani sniffing at every lose ball why not just have a crack and see?

Based on what I saw last night I can only think that the occasion got to them. That makes you wonder if this team has the bottle for better things?

We wet the bed as soon as we went top of the league this season. We didn't turn up in the Europa League final. Can this squad be trusted to get the job done?

No, neither the squad nor Ole

 

[passing-wind]

Unfortunately we are.

We were top of the league and then proceeded to drop silly points.

If we were playing Real/Barcelona in the final, we probably would have played much better.

Whenever there's expectations on us, we crumble.

Ultimately disappointment has always followed Solskjaer's comments when in a strong position. The team dropped points after he conceded the team wasn't challenging for the league despite being in top spot. The interviewee asked after the Wolves game what the expectation was going into the final and Ole said something along the lines of "we'll see".

The biggest issue with this current team and manager is not squad depth, flavour of the month surnames or individuals not turning up, it's that the manager doesn't have the mentality of a winner. People shouldn't confuse winning as a player and winning as a manager they are mutually exclusive. For me Ole doesn't believe in himself and it shows in his words. This final was more about his interpersonal commendation and character rather than where the team is.

Many believe Solskjaer doesn't even belong at the level he's managing at he truly is letting himself down and giving critics food to eat. I'm more disappointed for Ole than the team.

 

[pocco]

Ultimately disappointment has always followed Solskjaer's comments when in a strong position. The team dropped points after he conceded the team wasn't challenging for the league despite being in top spot. The interviewee asked after the Wolves game what the expectation was going into the final and Ole said something along the lines of "we'll see".

The biggest issue with this current team and manager is not squad depth, flavour of the month surnames or individuals not turning up, it's that the manager doesn't have the mentality of a winner. People shouldn't confuse winning as a player and winning as a manager they are mutually exclusive. For me Ole doesn't believe in himself and it shows in his words. This final was more about his interpersonal commendation and character rather than where the team is.

Many believe Solskjaer doesn't even belong at the level he's managing at he truly is letting himself down and giving critics food to eat. I'm more disappointed for Ole than the team.

The only thing he's managing is expectations, ie keeping it as low as possible so he looks like he's doing a good job. I think there's why he refused to change his team up, because he wants people to believe our squad is so bad. Last night was beyond a joke with the subs. We were lucky to make it through ET with that performance.

 

[simmee]

The more I think about it, the more the bottler tag seems true. Nobody on our team realty tried to win the game, besides Scott McTominay.

Nobody tried to take the initiative for us. I think back to the Euro 2016 final. Portugal weren't great but Eder decided to try and win it, took a pot shot from distance and voila. Where was that from us? We had three shots on target. We didn't really test the goalie.

This season, when faced with packed defences we have found answers. Playing against a low block is not a new challenge for us. The likes of Pogba and Bruno have broken the deadlock in games like that. Think about Pogba scoring against West Ham, Burnley, Fulham etc. Last night nobody even tried. We didn't even get the customary Marcus Rashford 30 yard drive.

We didn't really try to test Villarreal's keeper. We tried to play through them for 120 minutes instead of going around the outside or just taking some shots and seeing if we could get lucky on the rebound. When you've got Cavani sniffing at every lose ball why not just have a crack and see?

Based on what I saw last night I can only think that the occasion got to them. That makes you wonder if this team has the bottle for better things?

We wet the bed as soon as we went top of the league this season. We didn't turn up in the Europa League final. Can this squad be trusted to get the job done?

As you say, we have struggled against low blocks for a long time. Is it really bottling to do it in another game? Struggling against a low block, crap at defending set pieces and De Gea being crap on penalties. Just more of the same for me and not really bottling it.

 

[#07]

As you say, we have struggled against low blocks for a long time. Is it really bottling to do it in another game? Struggling against a low block, crap at defending set pieces and De Gea being crap on penalties. Just more of the same for me and not really bottling it.

I didn't say we struggled with it. I said it's not a new challenge. In fact it's a challenge we have overcome several times this season. We've had to cos we go behind so often against sides who's only aim is to get a lead against us and sit on it.

That we didn't rise to the challenge last night, I feel, shows we played the occasion not the game.

Something very late stage Wenger Arsenal about this Man Utd team. Wonderful when there's nothing really riding on it. Poor when talked about as serious contenders. Last night was our equivalent to Arsenal bottling the League Cup final against Birmingham.

 

[Lee565]

It's odd but we only seem to be bottlers under ole mainly, also in terms of playing staff who exactly are these bottlers, multiple title winning cavani or pogba? Bruno? Or is it Greenwood, rashford, mctominay and bissaka who are all favourites of ole's?

 

[Hammondo]

I don't think this was about bottling, I think this was about Villarreal setting up perfectly to beat us, and because we are pretty limited we had no solutions.

 

[Water Melon]

Ole bottled it, not the players. If anything our team are the kings of comebacks, not bottlers. At the highest level under biggest pressure Solskjaer folds, which is a definition of bottling.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Ole bottled it, not the players. If anything our team are the kings of comebacks, not bottlers. At the highest level under biggest pressure Solskjaer folds, which is a definition of bottling.

Why do you think our team are now the king of comebacks but we couldn’t come from
Behind when mourhino or lvg were managing?

 

[Hammondo]

Ole bottled it, not the players. If anything our team are the kings of comebacks, not bottlers. At the highest level under biggest pressure Solskjaer folds, which is a definition of bottling.

Honestly I do not see how he bottled it aside from the subs.

 

[Judas]

Wanting to put all the blame on Ole is laughable really, but it's to be expected.

 

[Water Melon]

Honestly I do not see how he bottled it aside from the subs.

Well how else could he have bottled it? Emery changed the flow of the game with his subs, while Ole just watched us fade away and then put all his fragile eggs in the penatly shoot out basket, while still keeping De Gea between the posts. Horrific decision, crumbled under pressure, got paralyzed. The difference that night was that we had better players, while Villarreal had better manager, who won it against the odds.

 

[Hammondo]

Well how else could he have bottled it? Emery changed the flow of the game with his subs, while Ole just watched us fade away and then put all his fragile eggs in the penatly shoot out basket, while still keeping De Gea between the posts. Horrific decision, crumbled under pressure, got paralyzed. The difference that night was that we had better players, while Villarreal had better manager, who won it against the odds.

During a game the manager has little affect on it. They do most of their work outside of the game, it comes down to the players in the game. His subs might have made a difference, might not have, either way that wasn't close to the most defining aspect of our performance.

 

[The Firestarter]

During a game the manager has little affect on it. They do most of their work outside of the game, it comes down to the players in the game. His subs might have made a difference, might not have, either way that wasn't close to the most defining aspect of our performance.

That's only valid for inept managers.

 

[Hammondo]

That's only valid for inept managers.

I think its valid for all managers, the vast majority of their work is done outside of the matches.

 

[Kostov]

We are a bunch of spineless cowards, bar the few rare exceptions. Attack led by an inconsistent wanna be Ronaldo's, midfield spark provided by a prima donna most of the time shit version of Pogba, and bar Maguire, CBs who either are pussies or made of glass. Put the GKs on top of that pile of shit and you get our team who isn't capable of producing a clear chance against the mighty yellow submarine.

 

[The Firestarter]

I think its valid for all managers, the vast majority of their work is done outside of the matches.

Of course the majority of work is done outside the actual 90 mins of a game. But capable managers have many ways to influence the game, and not only substitutions. Change of formation, change of positions between players, focus on certain areas based on the opposition performance , when and type of press, etc. Since it is the results of these games that count , and not those on these training pitch, it is an absolutely crucial skill for any manager.

 

[Hammondo]

Of course the majority of work is done outside the actual 90 mins of a game. But capable managers have many ways to influence the game, and not only substitutions. Change of formation, change of positions between players, focus on certain areas based on the opposition performance , when and type of press, etc. Since it is the results of these games that count , and not those on these training pitch, it is an absolutely crucial skill for any manager.

Most matches those only have minor affects. Usually they are always coin tosses. As far as formation goes, position of players, or pressing go there is not really much that would make any difference in this game. We had total domination of the ball and they were creating next to nothing. We had ourselves in advanced positions constantly with the right players on the ball. Changing formation, pressing differently, or moving players around would not change this.

Our opponents simply set up correctly to play against us, and we don't have the players or style to do well against that. This is not the first time it has happened. The failure for this game comes from a long time ago with the coaching/style of football + the players we have, this problem was built over a long time.

 

[Judas]

We are a bunch of spineless cowards, bar the few rare exceptions. Attack led by an inconsistent wanna be Ronaldo's, midfield spark provided by a prima donna most of the time shit version of Pogba, and bar Maguire, CBs who either are pussies or made of glass. Put the GKs on top of that pile of shit and you get our team who isn't capable of producing a clear chance against the mighty yellow submarine.

Bloody hell so much hate for one of the more likeable group of players we've had in years, god knows what you thought of the Jose squad

 

[Water Melon]

During a game the manager has little affect on it. They do most of their work outside of the game, it comes down to the players in the game. His subs might have made a difference, might not have, either way that wasn't close to the most defining aspect of our performance.

This is absolutely not true. SAF's subs won us the CL in '99. They had huge impact. So did Emery's in-game management against us. Played professional football a little bit, and am ready to bet that in game management is absutely crucial. Before a game it is mainly theory, during a game it is practical and factual. You try change what is not working, at times you change because of your opposition's moves. Players are not robots, football match is not a pre defined scenario. Either way Emery did his homework and passed his actual exam much better than Ole. Underdogs beat favourites.

 

[The Firestarter]

Bloody hell so much hate for one of the more likeable group of players we've had in years, god knows what you thought of the Jose squad

What?

 

[Judas]

quoted the wrong post sorry.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

During a game the manager has little affect on it. They do most of their work outside of the game, it comes down to the players in the game. His subs might have made a difference, might not have, either way that wasn't close to the most defining aspect of our performance.

This is so wrong.

 

[Shark]

During a game the manager has little affect on it. They do most of their work outside of the game, it comes down to the players in the game. His subs might have made a difference, might not have, either way that wasn't close to the most defining aspect of our performance.

 

[The Oracle]

This is absolutely not true. SAF's subs won us the CL in '99. They had huge impact. So did Emery's in-game management against us. Played professional football a little bit, and am ready to bet that in game management is absutely crucial. Before a game it is mainly theory, during a game it is practical and factual. You try change what is not working, at times you change because of your opposition's moves. Players are not robots, football match is not a pre defined scenario. Either way Emery did his homework and passed his actual exam much better than Ole. Underdogs beat favourites.

This.

You talk absolute sense.

Posters saying that the manager has no effect on a game during the match are absolutely wrong.

For posters truly believing that, then the manager may as well stay in the hotel whilst the players play the match at the stadium.

 

[Hammondo]

This.

You talk absolute sense.

Posters saying that the manager has no effect on a game during the match are absolutely wrong.

For posters truly believing that, then the manager may as well stay in the hotel whilst the players play the match at the stadium.

No one said no affect. Thats called a strawman.

 

[Hammondo]

This is absolutely not true. SAF's subs won us the CL in '99. They had huge impact. So did Emery's in-game management against us. Played professional football a little bit, and am ready to bet that in game management is absutely crucial. Before a game it is mainly theory, during a game it is practical and factual. You try change what is not working, at times you change because of your opposition's moves. Players are not robots, football match is not a pre defined scenario. Either way Emery did his homework and passed his actual exam much better than Ole. Underdogs beat favourites.

They had a huge effect at the end of the game after the vast majority of the game had already been played. Which by definition is not a large effect.

Emery beat us with his preparation and tactics, not his in-game management.Their approach was clear and consistent from the first minute.

Obviously players are not Robots but their decision making and ability to adapt comes from the work they do outside of the matches. You can see it every game with City.

 

[Water Melon]

They had a huge effect at the end of the game after the vast majority of the game had already been played. Which by definition is not a large effect.

Emery beat us with his preparation and tactics, not his in-game management.Their approach was clear and consistent from the first minute.

Obviously players are not Robots but their decision making and ability to adapt comes from the work they do outside of the matches. You can see it every game with City.

The subs had Huge effect at the end of the game, which basically won them the game. Had Ole reacted earlier, it could have been different. I am tired of going in circles, but for me the subs won the game, whilst initial preparation on our part was shite as well. As I said, Emery did both the homework and the exam better than Solskjaer, despite having vastly inferior squad. Ole failed yet again when it mattered the most, bottled.

 

[Solskjær's Red Army]

We weren't bottlers before Ole came really. If anything we maybe even punched above our weight considering the poor squads we had before. I knew we'd have won the Europa League final or League Cup final/Community Shield in 2017. I just had the confidence in the team to get it over the line.

Now, I certainly don't have this feeling. We can beat anyone right now but also lose to anyone and fail miserably.

 

[VidaRed]

We weren't bottlers before Ole came really. If anything we maybe even punched above our weight considering the poor squads we had before. I knew we'd have won the Europa League final or League Cup final/Community Shield in 2017. I just had the confidence in the team to get it over the line.

Now, I certainly don't have this feeling. We can beat anyone right now but also lose to anyone and fail miserably.

We may have talented players but we don't have mentally strong players anymore. Before ole we atleast had experienced players who had previously performed under pressure but now the only one we have is pogba who nearly always goes missing in big games.

 

[snk123]

They had a huge effect at the end of the game after the vast majority of the game had already been played. Which by definition is not a large effect.

Emery beat us with his preparation and tactics, not his in-game management.Their approach was clear and consistent from the first minute.

Obviously players are not Robots but their decision making and ability to adapt comes from the work they do outside of the matches. You can see it every game with City.

How many posts from different posters do you need to tell you that you're talking absolute nonsense? Even people who've barely kicked a ball and only play Fifa know that in game management is critical and affects the outcome of any match to an extraordinary degree.

 

[Pickle85]

Why do you think our team are now the king of comebacks but we couldn’t come from
Behind when mourhino or lvg were managing?

Not sure what you're trying to imply here. I like Ole, but seems odd to use two managers that had won trophies for us to boost his credentials when he's still trophieless.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don't think this was about bottling, I think this was about Villarreal setting up perfectly to beat us, and because we are pretty limited we had no solutions.

They weren’t even that good though - we just really struggled to string simple passes together in offensive areas and make good decisions on the ball. Acknowledge they had a good game plan (the exact game plan everyone knew was coming as it’s Emery) but they had no surprises or really any offensive threat at all.