We're in a fight for 2nd

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Havak

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José knows how to win trophies, it's just in his DNA. If you look at his record, he has been the manager of a side in a Cup Final 14 times and has won all but two of them (and they were decided in extra time). He hasn't lost a final when managing an English side. However, it's never a whitewash. Always keeps it tight, only once has it been more than a two-goal deficit. Regardless of how good Chelsea can be on their day and how good Conte is, it'll be quite a big upset if we don't win the FA Cup this time.

As for the League, I've been satisfied with our form simply because no matter how you look at it, this is so much better than we've been since Fergie left. We're talking a monumental gulf in class in terms of League performance. I hate to keep using the old chestnut of 'if City weren't so good we'd probably win the title', but it is pretty close to that realistically. I think we might actually end up off that kind of pace by a couple of results in the end, but it is what it is. The slump around the Christmas period when we lost to Huddersfield, then had three straight draws against Leicester, Burnley, and Southampton is where we were particularly poor. If we want to challenge for the title next season, that's the kind of run we need to not allow to happen. We were probably decent enough to get an extra 3-4 points from that bad run without being overly generous and shouldn't have had the brainfart against West Brom at home. If you take those extra points then we start to look the business assuming we take near maximum points from the final four games.

Eradicate those few dips and we're a consistent, 90+ point side with more than just a 'realistic chance to challenge'. The issue for most, as I keep seeing, is the Sevilla tie. I hope this changes José's mentality a bit in the future, because if we were playing the big boys such as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, PSG... Hell, even Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Atletico then you can understand it. But no, not Sevilla. Without being too disrespectful, I think it's a close call between them and Arsenal, even in their current state. They're just not good enough to command so much respect and negativity from ourselves. That one really is the sour grape of the bunch this season, but it is at least IMO, more good than bad. A few tweaks and we'll see where this side can go.
 

#07

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Certainly a big improvement on last year and I would have settled for second place at the start of the season for sure.
The lack of a challenge and the poor style of our play at times takes the gloss of it a bit for me and Liverpool have definitely been distracted by the CL in the run in.

The result in the cup final will determine if our season was a success or not.
I disagree with this, for me there's a difference between a successful season and a good season.

For example, 2005/06 was a good season in hindsight. That year, despite being humiliated in the Champions League, we finished second and won the League Cup. However, despite being a good season 2005/06 cannot be called a successful season.

I believe a successful season for Man Utd involves winning the Premier League. Manchester United is not a cup team. The league is our bread and butter. That was always the mantra under Fergie. The Champions League is a big enough prize that, if you fail to win the league, it can compensate. However, that's the only knock out competition that can make a successful season if we don't win the title. Also, you'd have to go back to 1968 to find a season where we won the European Cup and didn't win the league so, for the most part, its academic to think about winning in Europe and not winning at home.

The FA Cup and second is a good season it is not a successful season.
 

SalfordRed18

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I disagree with this, for me there's a difference between a successful season and a good season.

For example, 2005/06 was a good season in hindsight. That year, despite being humiliated in the Champions League, we finished second and won the League Cup. However, despite being a good season 2005/06 cannot be called a successful season.

I believe a successful season for Man Utd involves winning the Premier League. Manchester United is not a cup team. The league is our bread and butter. That was always the mantra under Fergie. The Champions League is a big enough prize that, if you fail to win the league, it can compensate. However, that's the only knock out competition that can make a successful season if we don't win the title. Also, you'd have to go back to 1968 to find a season where we won the European Cup and didn't win the league so, for the most part, its academic to think about winning in Europe and not winning at home.

The FA Cup and second is a good season it is not a successful season.
I see your points, but by definition a good season is a season you've seen some sort of success, therefore a good season is a successful season.
 

Handré1990

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I disagree with this, for me there's a difference between a successful season and a good season.

For example, 2005/06 was a good season in hindsight. That year, despite being humiliated in the Champions League, we finished second and won the League Cup. However, despite being a good season 2005/06 cannot be called a successful season.

I believe a successful season for Man Utd involves winning the Premier League. Manchester United is not a cup team. The league is our bread and butter. That was always the mantra under Fergie. The Champions League is a big enough prize that, if you fail to win the league, it can compensate. However, that's the only knock out competition that can make a successful season if we don't win the title. Also, you'd have to go back to 1968 to find a season where we won the European Cup and didn't win the league so, for the most part, its academic to think about winning in Europe and not winning at home.

The FA Cup and second is a good season it is not a successful season.
Good points and I’d have to agree with you.
 

LawCharltonBest

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Just to think of it wasn't for stupid oil money, city would be in the Championship and we'd be closing in on a title
 

OldSchoolManc

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Just to think of it wasn't for stupid oil money, city would be in the Championship and we'd be closing in on a title
If the ‘Right and proper’ ownership rule, was actually right and proper, we’d have had a bunch more titles and City would still be perennial strugglers.
 

bosnian_red

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You can have good seasons without winning trophies. For me, the most important season is progressing in terms of our play style and week to week performances. You're allowed to have off days, but having them as the majority isn't okay. We have largely improved, but it's been a weird season as in large periods we've played awful football, followed by some good periods to give you hope, before we get back to awful football. The Sevilla game was a perfect example. Both legs of it. It was disastrous the approach to them and just how poorly we played. We played like we were the underdogs and playing against peak Barcelona, not a team that won't even be in the CL next season. It was ridiculous and completely unacceptable. Winning the FA cup doesn't cover how bad of a failure that was, and the fact that it was the entire approach to that game that was wrong, that's on Mourinho. So he has to over a long period of time show that he's changed from that mess of a game. Only way we'll find out for that is in the Champions League next season.

For this season, it'll be "acceptable" if we win the FA cup. Yeah it's nice finishing 2nd, but we were well off 1st so it makes no difference between finishing 2nd or 3rd or 4th. The fact that City walked the league this season playing great football, while Liverpool have more then a foot in the Champions league final (again playing great football) definitely leaves a very bitter taste in the mouth. We're essentially having an Arsenal type season, so it's not enough. Progression, yes (in terms of results), but it's the overall play that matters more long term. We want to watch good football consistently, we want to have hope we can close the gap and become one of the best sides, not be a side that just stifles the best sides and rely on that. So that's why for me it's all very meh. Winning the FA cup would be great of course, and I hope we do. But next season is huge for Mourinho and he simply has to improve. Not even a case of "he has to win everything". It's the play that he has to improve. He has to find a way to get us look like a team on a consistent basis, and get us playing good football consistently. Too often we get bailed out through clinical finishing or De Gea saving us, rather then the overall play that is coached being the reason for us being where we are. It's not like we haven't shown on occasions that we're capable of it. Happens all the time when we concede a goal and decide we need to start playing attacking football, that we're actually very good at it and capable of creating chances and playing on the front foot.

So that's the big thing for me for next season. This season is "par". Next season I doubt we'll win the title or Champions league, and while an embarrassment in the CL next season would surely be it for Mourinho, we also need to see improvement in the team overall. Not just through buying better players, but actually improve the players we have as well and how they play together as a team, rather then being a team of individuals like we are most of the time.
 

edgar allan

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I disagree with this, for me there's a difference between a successful season and a good season.

For example, 2005/06 was a good season in hindsight. That year, despite being humiliated in the Champions League, we finished second and won the League Cup. However, despite being a good season 2005/06 cannot be called a successful season.

I believe a successful season for Man Utd involves winning the Premier League. Manchester United is not a cup team. The league is our bread and butter. That was always the mantra under Fergie. The Champions League is a big enough prize that, if you fail to win the league, it can compensate. However, that's the only knock out competition that can make a successful season if we don't win the title. Also, you'd have to go back to 1968 to find a season where we won the European Cup and didn't win the league so, for the most part, its academic to think about winning in Europe and not winning at home.

The FA Cup and second is a good season it is not a successful season.
Success is relative, winning the two minor cups last year was a minor success. If we win the FA cup then it will add a good measure of success to our year.

Your right that it is well down the list of importance when compared with League or CL, but hey it still will be great to win a cup. My point was that if we lose then the view of season will be significantly changed.
 

P-Nut

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Tbf, this could be said of any season we don't win the league.
Only if we're in a cup final which is why it's a positive.

Don't find any problem with this. Except for City, all other English teams are similar, they all have 1 competition to secure their season as a successful or just an improvement (or not for some).
As above the only problem I see with it is it means we aren't winning the league. This season is a write off though with city being so good that I have no problem with it being the scenario for now.
 

Lawman

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José knows how to win trophies, it's just in his DNA. If you look at his record, he has been the manager of a side in a Cup Final 14 times and has won all but two of them (and they were decided in extra time). He hasn't lost a final when managing an English side. However, it's never a whitewash. Always keeps it tight, only once has it been more than a two-goal deficit. Regardless of how good Chelsea can be on their day and how good Conte is, it'll be quite a big upset if we don't win the FA Cup this time.

As for the League, I've been satisfied with our form simply because no matter how you look at it, this is so much better than we've been since Fergie left. We're talking a monumental gulf in class in terms of League performance. I hate to keep using the old chestnut of 'if City weren't so good we'd probably win the title', but it is pretty close to that realistically. I think we might actually end up off that kind of pace by a couple of results in the end, but it is what it is. The slump around the Christmas period when we lost to Huddersfield, then had three straight draws against Leicester, Burnley, and Southampton is where we were particularly poor. If we want to challenge for the title next season, that's the kind of run we need to not allow to happen. We were probably decent enough to get an extra 3-4 points from that bad run without being overly generous and shouldn't have had the brainfart against West Brom at home. If you take those extra points then we start to look the business assuming we take near maximum points from the final four games.

Eradicate those few dips and we're a consistent, 90+ point side with more than just a 'realistic chance to challenge'. The issue for most, as I keep seeing, is the Sevilla tie. I hope this changes José's mentality a bit in the future, because if we were playing the big boys such as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, PSG... Hell, even Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Atletico then you can understand it. But no, not Sevilla. Without being too disrespectful, I think it's a close call between them and Arsenal, even in their current state. They're just not good enough to command so much respect and negativity from ourselves. That one really is the sour grape of the bunch this season, but it is at least IMO, more good than bad. A few tweaks and we'll see where this side can go.
Brilliant post
 

Lawman

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Success is relative, winning the two minor cups last year was a minor success. If we win the FA cup then it will add a good measure of success to our year.

Your right that it is well down the list of importance when compared with League or CL, but hey it still will be great to win a cup. My point was that if we lose then the view of season will be significantly changed.
Think the EL Cup is a bigger achievement than the FA Cup personally.
 

MrBest

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2nd place is great, city are miles ahead of anyone and there is no way anyone in this league could compete with that. Disappointment is martial and rashford being shunned, negative football and Seville game. Other than that, i am happy.
 

Crashoutcassius

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The word acceptable is nonsense in this context. Unless you're going to go out and protest non stop until the manager is sacked then you can't say an outcome is 'unacceptable'.
 

Crashoutcassius

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So you can't say anything is unacceptable without going protesting about it?
Yeah I just hate the word. If it isn't acceptable then you can't accept it. Imagine how many times people said something was unacceptable over the years then instantly accepted it when it happened. Crazy that so many people put up with it.
 

baskinginthesun

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I disagree with this, for me there's a difference between a successful season and a good season.

For example, 2005/06 was a good season in hindsight. That year, despite being humiliated in the Champions League, we finished second and won the League Cup. However, despite being a good season 2005/06 cannot be called a successful season.

I believe a successful season for Man Utd involves winning the Premier League. Manchester United is not a cup team. The league is our bread and butter. That was always the mantra under Fergie. The Champions League is a big enough prize that, if you fail to win the league, it can compensate. However, that's the only knock out competition that can make a successful season if we don't win the title. Also, you'd have to go back to 1968 to find a season where we won the European Cup and didn't win the league so, for the most part, its academic to think about winning in Europe and not winning at home.

The FA Cup and second is a good season it is not a successful season.
Fair assessment. I agree that the Premier League is bigger than any cup win. This should be a good season overall regardless of the FA Cup.

But, I think we should enjoy that we are winning trophies again which should hopefully lead to a very successful season next year.
 

Fingeredmouse

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Yeah I just hate the word. If it isn't acceptable then you can't accept it. Imagine how many times people said something was unacceptable over the years then instantly accepted it when it happened. Crazy that so many people put up with it.
I agree. It's just an unacceptable word.
 

FujiVice

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For example, 2005/06 was a good season in hindsight. That year, despite being humiliated in the Champions League, we finished second and won the League Cup. However, despite being a good season 2005/06 cannot be called a successful season.
That year was a demo season. It's basically the Stones playing colleges and pubs before they ruled the world. The second half of that season, Ronaldo, Rooney and Saha were smashing teams. We got an idea what the following season would look like. If we are a force next year, you could argue that the City, Liverpool and Chelsea results in the second half of this season was a base to go on to better things.
 

Miscemayl

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We need 7 points to guarantee 2nd since Spurs can get to 80 points if they win the next 4.

5 points will only guarantee us beating Liverpool but won't guarantee us 2nd.
 

Random Task

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We need 7 points to guarantee 2nd since Spurs can get to 80 points if they win the next 4.

5 points will only guarantee us beating Liverpool but won't guarantee us 2nd.
A win today will certainly end any fight for second place.

Second, third or fourth makes no difference in the grand scheme of things, save for minor bragging rights among rival fans.
 

Minimalist

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Going to be somewhat surreal to see United potentially finish on 86 points, while 16 points behind the winners.

Although if anything, that gap will be larger by the end.
 

breakout67

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So you can't say anything is unacceptable without going protesting about it?
Well you have to show through your actions that something is unacceptable. For example, you might stop going to games or buying merchandise.

If you say something is unacceptable, then do nothing when it happens, it is actually by definition acceptable for you.

Forum posts are rather meaningless, so saying something is unacceptable are hollow words by themselves.
 

P-Nut

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Well you have to show through your actions that something is unacceptable. For example, you might stop going to games or buying merchandise.

If you say something is unacceptable, then do nothing when it happens, it is actually by definition acceptable for you.

Forum posts are rather meaningless, so saying something is unacceptable are hollow words by themselves.
It's quite a weird way of thinking about something.

Do you think the human rights are acceptable in the middle East? If you think it's unacceptable what are you doing about it.
 

Antisocial

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Can’t complain about second given the state of first; get the position nailed-down and move on.
 

2cents

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Four points from nine will do it now. It’s ended up being comfortable enough, the 05/06 comparison above isn’t a bad one actually, hopefully we can kick on from here. Desperately need a proper challenge now.
 

breakout67

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It's quite a weird way of thinking about something.

Do you think the human rights are acceptable in the middle East? If you think it's unacceptable what are you doing about it.
There's plenty of ways to campaign for human rights in the middle east, redcafe isn't one of them :)
 

breakout67

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No one was saying redcafe was the place to protest, you said if you find something unacceptable then you must go out an protest or else you accept it.
Not necessarily protest, but take action. It's a bit like people on social media saying how such and such is really bad while doing nothing about it.

You can protest, write a petition, go on a fan channel, get in touch with the supporters trust, make a podcast. The Arsenal fanbase felt things were unacceptable so they took action. It's definitely possible that their actions such as ArsenalFanTv as well as not going to games forced Wenger to resign.
 

Bestietom

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If we win the FA cup and finish second then I would call it a good season, but winning the Premiership is more Successful.
 

ryan_forlan

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I will call it a good season if we finish 2nd and win the FA Cup.
I would have called it a successful season if we beat Sevilla and reached the quarters along with the accomplishments mentioned above.
 
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