We're in decline, losing out to City | Improving under Mourinho? | Old Bump, Sorry

Gandalf Greyhame

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Today, Manchester City have announced Pep Guardiola as their manager from the next season onwards. I think this marks a very significant moment in the history of the Premier League, and in the history of the Manchester Clubs, albeit for different reasons. I think today is the day one will look back to and say, that was the decisive moment when the power truly shifted in Manchester, and that was the day when Manchester United truly started down on their downward spiral.

The above article states United's complacency in handling the youth academy - while we stare at 12 consecutive defeats for the Under-18s at Carrington, City's younglings are becoming the best in the country. THey have a shiny new stadium with 6000 seats and superior coaches to handle the kids, and it is no co-incidence that RVP, Darren Fletcher, Phil Neville and Andy Cole have sent their sons to City's academy instead. We let it happen, we were complacent and did not keep up with their pace.
Now, we are paying the price.

The youth academy is one symptom of the larger malaise of complacency and poor decisions. While some on the caf (and even in the punditry boxes) believed that a knee-jerk move for Pep could materialize, City were quietly working behind the scenes since 2012. Today, they've succeeded in securing the best manager in world football. While United have dithered and parried and botched up their managerial choices since SAF in a comedy of errors and inexplicably poor set of decisions, City have quietly surged ahead. We made a mistake in signing Moyes and LVG, and we made a mistake by not securing Klopp, Ancelotti, Pep or the likes when they were available as an upgrade. Perhaps we tried, but it wasn't good enough. For a club with our ambitions, it had to be.

Gary Neville got it right: “The average lifespan of a manager is going down by the year. But with a director of football there is far less upheaval and the identity of the club, continuity of the majority of the staff and link between youth and first team remains intact.” While City were making giant strides in terms of building a long-term organizational structure, we have been trying to shoehorn Scots and Dutchmen into SAF's shoes and expecting it to work. Sacking LVG is not a long term solution. Like a thread dedicated to DoF argues, what will we do when Mourinho comes in, reshuffles the squad again for 250m, and then fails? What then? Another manager? Another set of players? A structure is necessary, we haven't addressed it.

The last line of the above article is shocking: "If Derby turn United over, and outrage flares again, Van Gaal’s future will rest with Woodward, maybe Arnold, and two Glazer brothers. No one else."
Essentially, post-SAF, our decisions are being made by money men, and money men only.

United are 92nd in terms of shots on target in England. We haven't scored a first half goal at Old Trafford in ages. We are struggling to make top four, and with City, Arsenal and Chelsea being assured of the top four for the next few seasons, and Kane-inspired Spurs and Klopp-inspired Pool fighting for fourth, we might struggle to make the equation. Apart from Martial and DDG, (the latter might leave), we have no top players in our squad despite spending millions. Who will take responsibility for this? Ed?

Ed's first responsiblity in a footballing role came in 2012, just four years ago, when he was added to the Board of Directors and made executive vice-chairman of the club. Today, he virtually runs the club. What else can expect but disaster from a man so inexperienced in both transfers and footballing objectives? We have taken a knife to a gunfight, and are being shredded to ribbons ever since. We need better men to run the club.

The issues will take time to repair. We won't get better in a year or two, even if we make all the right moves. It will take a while for a youth academy to be revamped and start flourishing again. It will take time for a new DoF to come to grips with his new task, if we do finally realize the issues and hire one. It will take time for whatever new signings the club makes to bed in, it will take time for a stable starting XI to start working together under whatever footballing goals our club has. It wil take time to replace the Vidics, the Rios, the Scholesys, the Giggsys, the Rooneys, and maybe even the DDGs. It will take time to find the right manager to do so, and it will take time for him to get us playing well again.

All this, if we DO make the right decisions. We aren't, not under Woodward and LVG. In fact, we are following up blunders with more blunders, no matter what the reasons. To get out of the grave, we have to stop digging first. That will take time, too.

As of now, and for the foreseeable future, Manchester is indeed blue. And we are going down the Liverpool way.
 

Trizy

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Bit of an over reaction? Pep has a lot to prove even if he is walking into the best squad in the league. Get in Mourinho and we'll be fine.
 

AltiUn

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Christ how about we see what happens yeah before we say our clubs super shit. Is Manchester feck blue, they're completely shite too.
 

J-Stander

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At least we don't wave around loads of inflatable bananas, there's always that.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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The meltdown is strong with this one
I am a bit down, yes, but I'd like to think I made valid logical arguments as to why we are failing as a club, and where City are getting it right. Is this a meltdown?
I dunno, maybe. I am incredibly depressed, despite this being the worst kept secret in world football and nothing unexpected.
 

Rory 7

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I am a bit down, yes, but I'd like to think I made valid logical arguments as to why we are failing as a club, and where City are getting it right. Is this a meltdown?
I dunno, maybe. I am incredibly depressed, despite this being the worst kept secret in world football and nothing unexpected.
Don't be. They have appointed a new manager. Big deal. Just wait til the oil money dries up. Just wait.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Is this a fecking joke.... I mean literally the cock sucking of city is unparalleled, for the love of Christ go and support city and stop your spouting this negative shite. Yes we haven't adapted to life after Fergie but with unlimited funds available and a fan base of unparalleled proportion how long do you really think recovery will take. I can't stand Mourinho but if we get him 3 players we can win the league and all of this is nonsense.
 

cyberman

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Like a Jewish kid at Christmas..
On another note can you imagine what Madrid fans have had to suffer through over the last 15 years watching what their rivals are doing?
All the while our fanbase are folding at the hint of a City upturn
 

OutOfTowner

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Yeah, I believe there's already been a hysterical blubbering mess of a thread like this posted already. Maybe the mods could merge the two into one tidal wave of overly-emotional hysteria.
 

The Man Himself

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One of the most shite thread ever and that is some achievement considering all the threads created today. Maybe all this shit can be merged together in one thread so it can be comfortably ignored?
 

Dumbstar

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The Liverpoolisation of Utd happened on day one, minute one and second one when Ferguson left. No one would listen.

Pep will buy one HUGE player minimum. Why not Messi? Neymar?
 

Devil may care

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The arrogant and flippant reactions to people who are pointing out the clusterfeck the club is right now reminds me of the ones that snorted at the idea that Moyes wouldn't finish in the top 4.

Our Academy's facilities are below par, our manager is a clueless old fool, our main player is a has-been and the guy calling the shots is a marketing executive not a football man. We have so much to fix, while City are going from strength to strength with their infrastructure, management and squad.
 

Theonas

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The Liverpoolisation of Utd happened on day one, minute one and second one when Ferguson left. No one would listen.

Pep will buy one HUGE player minimum. Why not Messi? Neymar?
Why do you think that? Barcelona don't lose players they want to keep, with the exception of Figo over a decade ago, they never did. Add to that the fact that Guardiola did not make a single "huge" signing in his time at Bayern. So what are you basing this one?
 

OutOfTowner

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One of the most shite thread ever and that is some achievement considering all the threads created today. Maybe all this shit can be merged together in one thread so it can be comfortably ignored?
And maybe that thread can be set fire upon along with everyone in it.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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How about someone read the stuff in the OP and respond to it rather looking at the title and getting outraged at an outrage?
Christ.

Is this a fecking joke.... I mean literally the cock sucking of city is unparalleled, for the love of Christ go and support city and stop your spouting this negative shite. Yes we haven't adapted to life after Fergie but with unlimited funds available and a fan base of unparalleled proportion how long do you really think recovery will take. I can't stand Mourinho but if we get him 3 players we can win the league and all of this is nonsense.
Funds and fanbase. Yeah, Liverpool never had that, right.
If we go for the players argument, Spurs are two-three players away from winning the league, too. A Griezmann, a Modric and a striker to complement Kane.
It takes a lot for a club to be successful, not just money and players. Wolfsburg, Monaco have the money, too. Milan have the fans. Did they recover from their slumps?

The arrogant and flippant reactions to people who are pointing out the clusterfeck the club is right now reminds me of the ones that snorted at the idea that Moyes wouldn't finish in the top 4.

Our Academy's facilities are below par, our manager is a clueless old fool, our main player is a has-been and the guy calling the shots is a marketing executive not a football man. We have so much to fix, while City are going from strength to strength with their infrastructure, management and squad.
Thank you for responding to my post instead of reacting to it.
 

OutOfTowner

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The Liverpoolisation of Utd happened on day one, minute one and second one when Ferguson left. No one would listen.

Pep will buy one HUGE player minimum. Why not Messi? Neymar?
Yeah, I think we've all learned not to listen to you when it comes to Manchester United.:)
 

Pexbo

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Why do you think that? Barcelona don't lose players they want to keep, with the exception of Figo over a decade ago, they never did. Add to that the fact that Guardiola did not make a single "huge" signing in his time at Bayern. So what are you basing this one?
The Bayern squad vs the City squad's at his point of takeover were very different in both age and quality.
 

SteveW

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The title and general tone is over the top but his points are generally correct.
 

Treble

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The arrogant and flippant reactions to people who are pointing out the clusterfeck the club is right now reminds me of the ones that snorted at the idea that Moyes wouldn't finish in the top 4.

Our Academy's facilities are below par, our manager is a clueless old fool, our main player is a has-been and the guy calling the shots is a marketing executive not a football man. We have so much to fix, while City are going from strength to strength with their infrastructure, management and squad.
Spot on.
 

NinjaFletch

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The arrogant and flippant reactions to people who are pointing out the clusterfeck the club is right now reminds me of the ones that snorted at the idea that Moyes wouldn't finish in the top 4.

Our Academy's facilities are below par, our manager is a clueless old fool, our main player is a has-been and the guy calling the shots is a marketing executive not a football man. We have so much to fix, while City are going from strength to strength with their infrastructure, management and squad.
No its not arrogant and flippant. Its calling hysteria hysteria.
 

Theonas

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The Bayern squad vs the City squad's at his point of takeover were very different in both age and quality.
True! Although I don't think it's night and day. The main point though is that those so called huge signings almost never happen. Real Madrid pulled 3 or 4 in the past decade and pretty much nobody else did. By huge here, I mean top players at already top clubs where they are wanted. That would be Neymar, Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo and so on. They are an extreme rarity and for English clubs, non existent. The idea that Pep will come in and get City to buy Neymar is therefore as unlikely as it gets in the transfer market considering how these things usually go.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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How about someone read the stuff in the OP and respond to it rather looking at the title and getting outraged at an outrage?
Christ.


Funds and fanbase. Yeah, Liverpool never had that, right.
If we go for the players argument, Spurs are two-three players away from winning the league, too. A Griezmann, a Modric and a striker to complement Kane.
It takes a lot for a club to be successful, not just money and players. Wolfsburg, Monaco have the money, too. Milan have the fans. Did they recover from their slumps?



Thank you for responding to my post instead of reacting to it.
I've read the op... and it's stupid and overly dramatic. City have proved, feck all and while they might have got a good manager he's no Alex Ferguson that's for sure. I never realised how spoiled Utd fans were until now.
 

Cheesy

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As much as there's a lot of over-reactionary stuff going about at the moment, and this thread could arguably quality, at least the OP is making an effort to create some discussion and holds an opinion which he's tried to articulate in a lengthy, detailed post. There are plenty of decent points there, and it's a bit shite when people automatically dismiss everything that's being said without actually acknowledging that.

But yeah, there are some major problems right now, and it's worrying that City just seem a whole lot more ambitious than us. Hopefully things will turn around though, and we'll actually get in a decent manager who can get the club back on track.
 

Cheesy

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No its not arrogant and flippant. Its calling hysteria hysteria.
He's got a point. People here did laugh at anyone who dared suggest we wouldn't compete for the title, or that Moyes would be a failure. Hell, I predicted we'd finish 3rd that season, and I'd have said that was probably quite a negative viewpoint. Yeah, the post is a bit over the top, but there's definitely a flippant attitude to an extent...as if fans automatically assume that everything will improve at some point when there's no guarantee that it will.
 

Ibi Dreams

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What really annoys me is how easy it seemed for City to get to where they are now. I know this is simplifying things to an extent, but it honestly seems like they got rich and everything just fell into place. They bought better and better players, played better and better football, hired better and better managers and are now the club to beat. We have just as much money but hardly anything seems easy or right at the club at the moment.
 

Twigg

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As much as there's a lot of over-reactionary stuff going about at the moment, and this thread could arguably quality, at least the OP is making an effort to create some discussion and holds an opinion which he's tried to articulate in a lengthy, detailed post. There are plenty of decent points there, and it's a bit shite when people automatically dismiss everything that's being said without actually acknowledging that.

But yeah, there are some major problems right now, and it's worrying that City just seem a whole lot more ambitious than us. Hopefully things will turn around though, and we'll actually get in a decent manager who can get the club back on track.
It wasn't the opening post that people had an issue with, it was the title.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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Why do you think that? Barcelona don't lose players they want to keep, with the exception of Figo over a decade ago, they never did. Add to that the fact that Guardiola did not make a single "huge" signing in his time at Bayern. So what are you basing this one?
Well, you could probably base that on the fact that Barcelona already had the ingredients of a great team in them, and Pep utilized them well. And at Bayern, you could argue that Lewandowski was a top buy, and so seems Costa. If they weren't a monopolizing team in Germany who could get anyone they wanted, he would probably spent big bucks getting the same players.

Conditions are different at City. They need some names to make it a world-beating team, and they have huge competition in the league which can be won only with top players. And since funds are almost unlimited, he will probably get a world-class name. Whether it can be Neymar or Messi is debatable, but he will, I'd say.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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He's got a point. People here did laugh at anyone who dared suggest we wouldn't compete for the title, or that Moyes would be a failure. Hell, I predicted we'd finish 3rd that season, and I'd have said that was probably quite a negative viewpoint. Yeah, the post is a bit over the top, but there's definitely a flippant attitude to an extent...as if fans automatically assume that everything will improve at some point when there's no guarantee that it will.
Fine so let's as fans agree to just throw in the towel, worship city and never speak of Utd again. If you don't think things will get better I pity you in life and in following team. What's the point in the doom and gloom, is it gonna get us out of the mess no, so how about we try to think abit more possitively and logically.