What do we still need? Aka The never ending story

[Roboc7]

We’ve got to effectively start all over again, we have some potentially good youngsters in Mainoo, Rasmus, Garnacho and possibly Amad.

But when you look as rest of the squad there is virtually no one other than maybe Shaw and Martinez who would be good enough to start for a team competing at the top of the league in 2-3 years time. The squad is littered with players who aren’t good enough like Dalot, AWB, Lindelof, Mctominay etc or whose best football has already been played or soon will be Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Maguire, Bruno.

As I’ve been saying for years it’s a huge overhaul required and completely different approach to recruitment that absolutely guts this squad.

 

[daba]

Who do you think we could bring in realistically to improve the midfield? Conor Gallagher would be a good option to play alongside Mainoo?

Gallagher would have made more sense than Mount tbf.

 

[Ballache]

Priority should be 2 cms. I don't care if we have to play McT as a striker, we need better midfielders.
Zubimendi and Thuram/Onana please. I'm so tired of being outplayed in midfield against absolutely everyone, doesn't get highlighted enough for me.

 

[Woziak]

How good is Witz? His name is mentioned a lot on this forum. Leverkuson seem to be producing a lot of good players

Witz is still young but has a huge upper ceiling he has 12 Goal involvements in Bundersliga this season and with Muisilla is probably the future of the German national team, he’s probably available and would have the right mentality, think of Cole Palmer but slightly more mature and with more pace.

 

[croadyman]

Totally agree all the bad decisions from the past have come home to roost. Let’s not confuse the situation Ralph was right we need open heart surgery.

The Club need -
New CEO
New DOF
New Head of Recruitment
New Coach
(Young emerging)
Get Xabi Alonso yes I know Liverpool connection but who cares he’s the best young coach out there right now.

New number 1 GK - D Costa
New Right CB - J Tobido or J Tah
New RB - J Frimpong
New LB - T Henrrnandez
New CM - N Barrella
New 8 - M Zubimendi
New 10 - F Witz
New 9 - V Osimhen
New RWS - M Olise

That lost will cost £500-550m so it’s never going to happen but that’s the type of player and character United need but first they need to fix the Infrastructure and sack ETH.

The only shining light right now is Nick Cox and he should keep his job and have more direct links with the new DOF, let’s not forget our under 18’s have won 11 out 11 this season and we have some real talent coming through.

You are absolutely bang on with all of that,however like you say there is no one giving us £500-£600m to fund a new team

 

[croadyman]

We’ve got to effectively start all over again, we have some potentially good youngsters in Mainoo, Rasmus, Garnacho and possibly Amad.

But when you look as rest of the squad there is virtually no one other than maybe Shaw and Martinez who would be good enough to start for a team competing at the top of the league in 2-3 years time. The squad is littered with players who aren’t good enough like Dalot, AWB, Lindelof, Mctominay etc or whose best football has already been played or soon will be Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Maguire, Bruno.

As I’ve been saying for years it’s a huge overhaul required and completely different approach to recruitment that absolutely guts this squad.

Yeah like Rangnick said this squad requires open heart surgery not the short sharp shock that Neville said we do on Super Sunday

 

[Paul778]

Priority should be 2 cms. I don't care if we have to play McT as a striker, we need better midfielders.
Zubimendi and Thuram/Onana please. I'm so tired of being outplayed in midfield against absolutely everyone, doesn't get highlighted enough for me.

Everything is a priority.

We have two if not three inadequate CDs that need replacing. I was hoping we could get Todibo in this window to at least bed one in - loan with obligation to buy in summer.

As you say our CMs are shocking.

So are our full backs who are neither good defensively or good going forward. When City started they broke the bank paying silly money for top notch FBs since they are so crucial in the modern game.

And then there is our attack and our reliance on "moments fc" rather than a style of play. No ability to cross, no ability to take people on, no playing as a team and knowing what your team mates will do. Cannot reliably pass 5 yards and more often than not recycle the ball pointlessly.

Set pieces both attacking and defending are awful.

Amd whilst you're at it a manager that can make the above play as a team rather than a set of individuals who care more for themselves than the badge.

 

[Son]

You run on a treadmill of mediocrity until either something completely changes in the sport like (states taking over clubs and new leagues) or you just slowly fade into Everton for example.

I actually think we are in danger of the second one. If I was a betting man I really doubt we’ll be back at the top of the game.

I actually don’t see how without a states backing our club can be at our past level. History wise we had far more down times than the likes of Madrid and Juve.

We had a chance to be Real Madrid in the 00’s but corporate greed, lack of ambition sporting wise mixed with a little bit of bad luck in European competitions stopped us getting anywhere close.

Then they had their lucky run which utterly destroyed any notion of us been anything like them apart from selling shirts - which fades someday without the guaranteed success they have in their country.

 

[Ballache]

Everything is a priority.

We have two if not three inadequate CDs that need replacing. I was hoping we could get Todibo in this window to at least bed one in - loan with obligation to buy in summer.

As you say our CMs are shocking.

So are our full backs who are neither good defensively or good going forward. When City started they broke the bank paying silly money for top notch FBs since they are so crucial in the modern game.

And then there is our attack and our reliance on "moments fc" rather than a style of play. No ability to cross, no ability to take people on, no playing as a team and knowing what your team mates will do. Cannot reliably pass 5 yards and more often than not recycle the ball pointlessly.

Set pieces both attacking and defending are awful.

Amd whilst you're at it a manager that can make the above play as a team rather than a set of individuals who care more for themselves than the badge.

For me, the midfield is by far the most Important area of the pitch.
It's so tiring watching us getting outplayed in midfield by the likes of Bournemouth and Nottingham Forest...
I do agree with you, we need to improve the whole team and specifically the spine.
My list would be:
CM
CB
CM
ST
In that order.
We also need a RW, a left footed CB and potentially a new LB.
All this after spending a billion on players...the mismanagement of this club has been criminal.

 

[Mylock]

I see mentioned in an earlier post that we need to spend €500m which is a joke.
What we need is act like a proper run club and buy players at their correct value not at the exorbitant prices that we have paid for players.
Instead of paying stupid money for Neves , pay 20m for Vermeeren potentially as good and a fifth of the price, instead of buying Silva for 100m buy giorgio scalvini for 40m who has as much potential. There's plenty of good players out there who you dont have to pay stupid money for. Act like a proper club like Liverpool or spurs in the transfer market and we can get back quicker than we think.

 

[The Irish Connection]

The question is now whether we need a right or left winger since Garnacho has been playing well on the right and Amad has potential. Rashford will always be inconsistent on the left.

Would be class if ineos could somehow inject the funds for the likes of the list posted above, top striker, winger, two centre mids, a centre back and a right back.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

DM or there's just no point.

 

[Woziak]

I see mentioned in an earlier post that we need to spend €500m which is a joke.
What we need is act like a proper run club and buy players at their correct value not at the exorbitant prices that we have paid for players.
Instead of paying stupid money for Neves , pay 20m for Vermeeren potentially as good and a fifth of the price, instead of buying Silva for 100m buy giorgio scalvini for 40m who has as much potential. There's plenty of good players out there who you dont have to pay stupid money for. Act like a proper club like Liverpool or spurs in the transfer market and we can get back quicker than we think.

Fans are estimating €500m with a sensible transfer strategy, let’s be clear here when Ralph said we needed 10 or 11 players, that was 2 years ago and most of the dross is still here!


The club needs a new CEO, DOF and head of recruitment, we do have a fantastic director of the academy and you can clearly see by the Under 18’s form what a good job he’s doing. However if we are to do this sensibly like you said then it’s fair to say that an elite club like United needs two international class players in every position with the caveat that 9th defender is required for injuries and bookings. We need at least 6 top quality midfield players and potentially 6/7 different kind of strikers with preferably 3 centre forwards and 4 wingers/inverted strikers and of course 3 Goalkeepers with one being the elder statesman.

Currently to fill
Goal keepers (*New Number 1, A Bayinder and T Heaton)
Sell A Onana

Defenders (Dalot, Martinez, Shaw, AWB, Maguire, J Evans(temp), Need New RB, RCB, LWB, LCB
Sell - R Varane, V Lindeloft, T Malacia,

Midfield (Casemiro temp, K Mainoo, M Mount, Need New CM, number 8, No10
Sell Bruno, Eriksen, Amra, S Mctominay Hanibal

Attack ( Garnaucho, Rashford Temp, Amad, Hojlund,)
Need new 9, RWS, versatile striker)
Sell Martial, Antony, Sancho, Pellistri and Greenwood


Ok this can’t be fixed in one window, it will take three and you need to be aware of the FSP which means next summer we can only spend 70% of the turnover from this year which will decrease based on two factors, no long cup runs and no European football. Thats why Ineos are desperately trying to get huge earners out of the club before the summer to get the wage bill down to 45% maximum of turnover.

Man United under ETH are a shambles of a side and still need at least 11, maybe 12 possibly 13 new players.

Twelve players at an average of €45m is €540m. Right now we have a blunt strike force and our starting three should be our back up front three!

To go get a Osimhen or E Ferguson, F Witz, R Laeo or Minomoto that’s going to cost money and United desperately need to score goals because right now they can’t score enough goals and have hardly any goals coming from Midfield too.

I mentioned on an earlier post in July 23 that the one Ajax attacking player we should have bought was Mohamed Kudas and people laughed, there not laughing now, we simply bought all the wrong players in the last two windows under ETH and that’s why he can’t be allowed to have any decision with transfers going forward, when you he hear Brian Bobbey as a potential new signing you just want Sir Jim to put dear Erik out of his misery and the fans too!

 

[Mylock]

Fans are estimating €500m with a sensible transfer strategy, let’s be clear here when Ralph said we needed 10 or 11 players, that was 2 years ago and most of the dross is still here!


The club needs a new CEO, DOF and head of recruitment, we do have a fantastic director of the academy and you can clearly see by the Under 18’s form what a good job he’s doing. However if we are to do this sensibly like you said then it’s fair to say that an elite club like United needs two international class players in every position with the caveat that 9th defender is required for injuries and bookings. We need at least 6 top quality midfield players and potentially 6/7 different kind of strikers with preferably 3 centre forwards and 4 wingers/inverted strikers and of course 3 Goalkeepers with one being the elder statesman.

Currently to fill
Goal keepers (*New Number 1, A Bayinder and T Heaton)
Sell A Onana

Defenders (Dalot, Martinez, Shaw, AWB, Maguire, J Evans(temp), Need New RB, RCB, LWB, LCB
Sell - R Varane, V Lindeloft, T Malacia,

Midfield (Casemiro temp, K Mainoo, M Mount, Need New CM, number 8, No10
Sell Bruno, Eriksen, Amra, S Mctominay Hanibal

Attack ( Garnaucho, Rashford Temp, Amad, Hojlund,)
Need new 9, RWS, versatile striker)
Sell Martial, Antony, Sancho, Pellistri and Greenwood


Ok this can’t be fixed in one window, it will take three and you need to be aware of the FSP which means next summer we can only spend 70% of the turnover from this year which will decrease based on two factors, no long cup runs and no European football. Thats why Ineos are desperately trying to get huge earners out of the club before the summer to get the wage bill down to 45% maximum of turnover.

Man United under ETH are a shambles of a side and still need at least 11, maybe 12 possibly 13 new players.

Twelve players at an average of €45m is €540m. Right now we have a blunt strike force and our starting three should be our back up front three!

To go get a Osimhen or E Ferguson, F Witz, R Laeo or Minomoto that’s going to cost money and United desperately need to score goals because right now they can’t score enough goals and have hardly any goals coming from Midfield too.

I mentioned on an earlier post in July 23 that the one Ajax attacking player we should have bought was Mohamed Kudas and people laughed, there not laughing now, we simply bought all the wrong players in the last two windows under ETH and that’s why he can’t be allowed to have any decision with transfers going forward, when you he hear Brian Bobbey as a potential new signing you just want Sir Jim to put dear Erik out of his misery and the fans too!

I'd agree largely with what you've said about the players that should be gone but not all incoming players will cost 45m, in saying that we will have to pay more than 45m for some. What I am saying is that firstly if you have the proper mgmt structure in place we can spend alot less that 500m. There are plenty of players that can be bought at reasonable prices like spurs, Brighton and the pool have that don't require us to spend 500m net. You are not taking in consideration that we will get some money for the players we sell.
The number one issue is we have spent large amounts of money on the wrong players over the last 10 years, this has been down to the mgmt team/senior mgmt structure. The like of City, Bayern and Liverpool don't have a problem walking away from a deal if the the terms are not right. Liverpool did it last summer with mount, City did it with sanchez.
Eth has shown that he cannot be trusted to make the decisions on his own as he has bought poorly when given a free run. How he spent money on Antony is beyond a joke, technically a very limited player, no better than james. I see him surviving until the summer and then they'll see. We could appoint God and he wouldn't get this club sorted unless we have the proper structure in place.

 

[Woziak]

I'd agree largely with what you've said about the players that should be gone but not all incoming players will cost 45m, in saying that we will have to pay more than 45m for some. What I am saying is that firstly if you have the proper mgmt structure in place we can spend alot less that 500m. There are plenty of players that can be bought at reasonable prices like spurs, Brighton and the pool have that don't require us to spend 500m net. You are not taking in consideration that we will get some money for the players we sell.
The number one issue is we have spent large amounts of money on the wrong players over the last 10 years, this has been down to the mgmt team/senior mgmt structure. The like of City, Bayern and Liverpool don't have a problem walking away from a deal if the the terms are not right. Liverpool did it last summer with mount, City did it with sanchez.
Eth has shown that he cannot be trusted to make the decisions on his own as he has bought poorly when given a free run. How he spent money on Antony is beyond a joke, technically a very limited player, no better than james. I see him surviving until the summer and then they'll see. We could appoint God and he wouldn't get this club sorted unless we have the proper structure in place.

That’s an average of £42m is £500m for 12 players, some will be 60,70 and maybe we’ll be stupid enough to pay £80m and some will be 20 or 30m so the average is going to be £40-42m. ETH has bought Antony £82.5m, Casemiro £70m, L Martinez £57m, T Mallacia £15m plus this year R Hojlund £72m, M Mount £55m and A Onana £47m plus Bayinder for £5.5m. That’s a total of £403.5m divided by 8 which is over £50m average per player. Yes we can add Eriksen free in and it’s £45m average spend per player but the problem is Eriksen was too old we need to be doing really good free deals where the player is 24/25 not 29/30.

I haven’t included the £20m loan fees where the player is not a long term asset for the club. If we can average £35-40m per player and make sure the age of these players are 5-6 years younger, that’s already a huge improvement!


Sir Jim won’t be able to resist one huge marquee fee of £80-100m just to let the footballing world know United can if they choose, still dine at the top table. For example if a player like Bellingham was happy to come to United, which of course is very unlikely he would spend the marquee figure!


To be clear I never said net, I’d expect the club to try and receive at least £150-200m over 2 years so £300m net spend.

 

[Remember the geese]

Would be easier to ask 'What don't we need?'.

Aside from the kids (Mainoo, Højlund, Amad, Garnacho and various other young academy players), I'm willing to give Onana a little longer and I like Martinez. That is all. As far as I'm concerned, everyone else can go.

 

[Woziak]

Would be easier to ask 'What don't we need?'.

Aside from the kids (Mainoo, Højlund, Amad, Garnacho and various other young academy players), I'm willing to give Onana a little longer and I like Martinez. That is all. As far as I'm concerned, everyone else can go.

As much as I’d like to agree we can’t change 17-18 players, the good news and I’m sure Sir Alex is giving information as he will be fed inside information from McClaren. The under 18 squad is one of the best we’ve had in ages and I think we should be looking at this in possible three phases.

Phase One -
Complete the ongoing review
Create the correct infrastructure
Appoint a real DOF
Loan with potential obliging to buy
Hanibal and A Fernandez £25m
Appoint a head of recruitment
Restructure the scouting system
Forget January 24 transfer window unless we can add a short term no brainer solution like Benzema or maybe Benjamin Sesko loan with a view to buy.
Target Europa League which is 6th place forget CL we would need 72-74 points to get top 4/5 and that 14 wins from last 17 games not happening!

Phase Two
We need to complete review and decide on a new Manager.
ETH should be sacked and the shortlist of 3 should be Roberto De zerbie, Xabi Alonso and Julien Naigelsman.

Identify who we can sell obvious Maguire, Mctominay, Antony, Malacia, Martial, Greenwood I’d keep Casemiro but if we can’t so be it and a new manager would have Sancho back if he does well. I’m hoping we sell DVB, Eriksen, Pellistri, Hanibal, Maguire, Mctominay, Malacia and Greenwood (Although I can see either him or Sancho staying and Greenwood at £75k per week when is a lot cheaper than Sancho if they can get an interview that maybe explains the situation better, personally I don’t want him back but Sir Jim might!) Let’s hope we do something right this summer and generate £125-150m through player sales.

Even with FSP(Financial Sustainability) which will be 80% of turnover this year from jan1st 24 to December 31st 24. If our turnover is reduced to £600m and wages drop to £250m then £540m is our threshold with new investment we could have £90m added to a budget of about £250m because of player sales. There’s no way Sir Jim’s spending £400 or £500m but I think he’ll spend £300m this summer and we will be looking to buy key players to the spine of the team;
Here’s what I hope and think might happen ?

New Goalkeeper - Jordan Pickford £30m
New RB - Jeremie Frimpong £45m
New CB - Jean C Tobido - £45m
New LB - Pervis Estupinian - £35m
New DM/CM - Martin Zubimendi £40m
New RW/AM - M/Olise/Florian Witz - £70m
New CF - Joshua Zirkee -£35m

This would create a young hungry spine and an attacking options of Witz, Zirkee, Rashford, Sancho(Greenwood), Amad, Garnaucho and Rasmus that under new manager will be more dynamic. Plus we can use Mount, Bruno or Witz as the Attacking midfield, keep Casemiro with Mainoo and Zubimendi and we fixed midfield. Now we have more attacking fullbacks and have 5 options. The target will be top4/5 Champions league and to win the Europa league if we qualify.

Phase Two really starts from the season 25/26 to 26/27 where we have two consistent seasons. Top 3/4 in PL an 1/4 finals of Cl plus a cup win.
The infrastructure benefits are starting to work as 2 players from the academy move up to the first team, my predictions Jack Fletcher and Shea Lacey. We only need to buy 2 or 3 marquee players each summer window and sell 2 or 2 players.
Summer Transfer 2025 we should be buy Evan Ferguson £100m, Nicola Barella £60m and Mark Gheuy £60m sell AwB, V Lindelof, A Onana, Casemiro and Bruno £100m , net spend £120m

Summer 26 Transfer - buy Alex Scott CM or the best emerging CM from the PL for £40m, buy best GK in world which will be Diego Costa, sell Amad if he doesn’t kick on as shea Lacey coming through. Go buy emerging South American talent to bed into the squad. Spend £175m net.


Phase Three from season 26/27, 27,28 and 28/29 we should now be challenging for a Title in the middle 27/28 season. I’m hoping that by season 26/27 that’s 2 and half years time our squad looks like this.

GK - D Costa, J Pickford, T Heaton

Defenders - D Dalot, J Frimpong, J Todibo, M Gheui, L Martinez, L Shaw, P Estupinian, W kwmbala, H Amass,

Midfield - ,N Barella, A Scott, M Zubimendi, K Mainoo, O Zambrano, M Mount, F Witz,
J Fletcher

Attack - E Ferguson, R Hojlund,
J Sancho/M Greenwood, M Rashford (highly unlikely) , A Garnaucho, J Zirkee, S Lacy,
Young players coming through means the squad is really 23 with 4 youngsters coming through from hopefully another Fa youth cup winning team.

This is just a guesstimate it’s never going to happen in a million years but if sir Jim means business and United is a vanity project for him, he might throw £500 or £600m net at the club over a 5 year period. Thats what it’s going to take but only if we buy the right PL proven young driven ballers.

* Ofcourse if we don’t qualify for Europe for season of 24/25 we will not be obliged to comply with UEFA 80% rule as the EPL sustainability rules are different!

 

[bosnian_red]

Ignoring financial constraints and how difficult it will be to move on some of them, I'd go for this over the next few windows.

Sell/let go:

• Maguire
• Varane
• Amrabat
• Mount
• Mctominay
• Eriksen
• Antony
• Martial
• Sancho
• Greenwood
• Pellistri

Buy:

• Todibo
• Andre/new younger physically strong deep playmaker to control
• Man Utd Kone/New younger DM/energetic ball winner who can carry the ball
• Nico Williams
• Taremi/Benzema
• Eventually - Wirtz to replace Bruno as a 10 (Bruno as he ages can be part of the squad between a deeper mid and the 10 rotating)

Hojlund
Garnacho Bruno Williams
Mainoo Casemiro
Shaw Martinez Todibo Dalot
Onana

Taremi
Rashford ?? Amad
Andre Kone
Malacia Lindelof Kambwala Wan Bissaka
Altay​

 

[croadyman]

Fans are estimating €500m with a sensible transfer strategy, let’s be clear here when Ralph said we needed 10 or 11 players, that was 2 years ago and most of the dross is still here!


The club needs a new CEO, DOF and head of recruitment, we do have a fantastic director of the academy and you can clearly see by the Under 18’s form what a good job he’s doing. However if we are to do this sensibly like you said then it’s fair to say that an elite club like United needs two international class players in every position with the caveat that 9th defender is required for injuries and bookings. We need at least 6 top quality midfield players and potentially 6/7 different kind of strikers with preferably 3 centre forwards and 4 wingers/inverted strikers and of course 3 Goalkeepers with one being the elder statesman.

Currently to fill
Goal keepers (*New Number 1, A Bayinder and T Heaton)
Sell A Onana

Defenders (Dalot, Martinez, Shaw, AWB, Maguire, J Evans(temp), Need New RB, RCB, LWB, LCB
Sell - R Varane, V Lindeloft, T Malacia,

Midfield (Casemiro temp, K Mainoo, M Mount, Need New CM, number 8, No10
Sell Bruno, Eriksen, Amra, S Mctominay Hanibal

Attack ( Garnaucho, Rashford Temp, Amad, Hojlund,)
Need new 9, RWS, versatile striker)
Sell Martial, Antony, Sancho, Pellistri and Greenwood


Ok this can’t be fixed in one window, it will take three and you need to be aware of the FSP which means next summer we can only spend 70% of the turnover from this year which will decrease based on two factors, no long cup runs and no European football. Thats why Ineos are desperately trying to get huge earners out of the club before the summer to get the wage bill down to 45% maximum of turnover.

Man United under ETH are a shambles of a side and still need at least 11, maybe 12 possibly 13 new players.

Twelve players at an average of €45m is €540m. Right now we have a blunt strike force and our starting three should be our back up front three!

To go get a Osimhen or E Ferguson, F Witz, R Laeo or Minomoto that’s going to cost money and United desperately need to score goals because right now they can’t score enough goals and have hardly any goals coming from Midfield too.

I mentioned on an earlier post in July 23 that the one Ajax attacking player we should have bought was Mohamed Kudas and people laughed, there not laughing now, we simply bought all the wrong players in the last two windows under ETH and that’s why he can’t be allowed to have any decision with transfers going forward, when you he hear Brian Bobbey as a potential new signing you just want Sir Jim to put dear Erik out of his misery and the fans too!

Agree with most of it apart from I would sell Rashford instead of Greenwood. Scary to think we need double figure number of players but that's the brutal truth of the matter.

 

[Redivy]

If it wasnt for FFP, then I'd have liked to see us go after:

- Branthwaite
- Frimpong
- Bruno G
- Nico Williams

I think those 4 step straight into the starting 11 and improve us from day one. But it would 250m worth of signings and I dont know how far the sales of Sancho, McTominay, Maguire etc will go.

 

[daba]

If it wasnt for FFP, then I'd have liked to see us go after:

- Branthwaite
- Frimpong
- Bruno G
- Nico Williams

I think those 4 step straight into the starting 11 and improve us from day one. But it would 250m worth of signings and I dont know how far the sales of Sancho, McTominay, Maguire etc will go.

McTominay and also Greenwood would both be pure profit from an FFP perspective. Hopefully we sell both this summer, although I can see us holding on to McT again unfortunately. Add in the extra FFP buffer we get with a new owner, plus getting some high earners off the books like Martial and maybe Varane and spending £250m I guess becomes a viable budget.

 

[golden_blunder]

We need some arial ability brought to the team

 

[Adnan]

I don't think we need to gut the squad, but rather take 4 players out of the first 11 and bring 4 players into the first 11, which I believe will make the difference. The issue right now apart from the injuries is that we just don't have players who can manage the game out of possession when the space opens up in transition. Harry Kane for 120m wasn't going to fix that problem but he might have papered over the cracks temporarily. Some people have been watching the YouTube fan channels a little too much it seems.

If we want to play in the opponent's half, then we can't be the 4th or 5th best team as far defensive line height is concerned, but instead we have to be rivalling the likes of Liverpool and City in that regard, which we haven't come close to doing. But the reason we haven't come close to doing that is due to the profile of players we've had, especially in the backline and at CB. We need these players to be physically, athletically and technically proficient to help evade the press in possession, as well as control the game out of possession when the spaces open up for the opposition to break on the counter/transition, when we're playing 40 yards higher up the pitch.

And because we can't manage the game out of possession, it's difficult to exert tactical superiority over teams who have physical and athletical supriority over us. We're coming up against teams who have players with functional techniques, but their physical and athletic ability means that they eat up ground quickly, which means our players centrally get closed down quickly on the ball, which compounds things further due to us being weak at managing the game out of possession. And then on top of all that, the likes of Bruno don't have the ability to dribble out of tight spaces, which makes things even worse, and his attempts at spamming balls forward will show favourably via the stats, but will make us even less cohesive as a team.

I believe it's not difficult to raise the physical and athletic level of the team. And that has to be done without compromising on technical ability in possession (first touch/ball control). I think there's potential as far as what we can do on the ball, but that potential will only be realised if we can back that up by controlling the game out of possession in a high defensive line. We need pace and power along with technical quality to control the game out of possession in the league. The EPL is currently brutal as far as controlling transitions is concerned and the key is to sign players who can handle the game in that regard, and place a real emphasis on how one will go about controlling the game when the backline is playing 40 yards higher up the pitch. The fullbacks should either be inverting in-field or be pushed high up the pitch, with the defensive responsibility at the back falling on at least one midfielder and both CBs, with possible support from a inverted fullback to form a 3 man backline when exerting control higher up the pitch in a high defensive line.

Out - Casemiro, McTominay, Varane, Lindelof

In - Tchouameni, Onana, Diomande, Branthwaite.

I think Madrid might sell Tchouameni, but if not, then Lucas Gourna-Douath would be a good player to sign instead. He's still only 20, but I think he could develop into a very good player. I also really like Leny Yoro, but I think he will be joining Real Madrid

There's other positions like signing a replacement for Sancho and Martial potentially, but for me the biggest difference will come from raising the pace and power of the team. Klopp's system wouldn't work without the pace and power he has in his backline. And even Guardiola has had to adapt by signing players like Akanji and Ake who control the channel for him after Aymeric Laporte became vulnerable in a high defensive line. Laporte was a good footballer, with good positioning, but playing 40 yards higher up the pitch required a little bit more than good positioning in a league where teams can exploit vulnerabilities in transition.

 

[daba]

I don't think we need to gut the squad, but rather take 4 players out of the first 11 and bring 4 players into the first 11, which I believe will make the difference. The issue right now apart from the injuries is that we just don't have players who can manage the game out of possession when the space opens up in transition. Harry Kane for 120m wasn't going to fix that problem but he might have papered over the cracks temporarily. Some people have been watching the YouTube fan channels a little too much it seems.

If we want to play in the opponent's half, then we can't be the 4th or 5th best team as far defensive line height is concerned, but instead we have to be rivalling the likes of Liverpool and City in that regard, which we haven't come close to doing. But the reason we haven't come close to doing that is due to the profile of players we've had, especially in the backline and at CB. We need these players to be physically, athletically and technically proficient to help evade the press in possession, as well as control the game out of possession when the spaces open up for the opposition to break on the counter/transition, when we're playing 40 yards higher up the pitch.

And because we can't manage the game out of possession, it's difficult to exert tactical superiority over teams who have physical and athletical supriority over us. We're coming up against teams who have players with functional techniques, but their physical and athletic ability means that they eat up ground quickly, which means our players centrally get closed down quickly on the ball, which compounds things further due to us being weak at managing the game out of possession. And then on top of all that, the likes of Bruno don't have the ability to dribble out of tight spaces, which makes things even worse, and his attempts at spamming balls forward will show favourably via the stats, but will make us even less cohesive as a team.

I believe it's not difficult to raise the physical and athletic level of the team. And that has to be done without compromising on technical ability in possession (first touch/ball control). I think there's potential as far as what we can do on the ball, but that potential will only be realised if we can back that up by controlling the game out of possession in a high defensive line. We need pace and power along with technical quality to control the game out of possession in the league. The EPL is currently brutal as far as controlling transitions is concerned and the key is to sign players who can handle the game in that regard, and place a real emphasis on how one will go about controlling the game when the backline is playing 40 yards higher up the pitch. The fullbacks should either be inverting in-field or be pushed high up the pitch, with the defensive responsibility at the back falling on at least one midfielder and both CBs, with possible support from a inverted fullback to form a 3 man backline when exerting control higher up the pitch in a high defensive line.

Out - Casemiro, McTominay, Varane, Lindelof

In - Tchouameni, Onana, Diomande, Branthwaite.

I think Madrid might sell Tchouameni, but if not, then Lucas Gourna-Douath would be a good player to sign instead. He's still only 20, but I think he could develop into a very good player. I also really like Leny Yoro, but I think he will be joining Real Madrid

There's other positions like signing a replacement for Sancho and Martial potentially, but for me the biggest difference will come from raising the pace and power of the team. Klopp's system wouldn't work without the pace and power he has in his backline. And even Guardiola has had to adapt by signing players like Akanji and Ake who control the channel for him after Aymeric Laporte became vulnerable in a high defensive line. Laporte was a good footballer, with good positioning, but playing 40 yards higher up the pitch required a little bit more than good positioning in a league where teams can exploit vulnerabilities in transition.

Agree with everything in this from a tactical perspective and I also like the signing suggestions (including Gourna-Douath if we miss out on Tchou or he stays at Madrid). Tchou is a dream signing though so if he is available we should be doing our best to go for him, but I fear we are too soon into the INEOS project potentially to win a big player like that due to football reasons rather than money which has been a big problem for us up until now.

However, I don't think we can go into a another season without changing something on the right-hand side, so unless in your vision above Greenwood or Sancho are coming back, I think we are either missing a new forward signing to replace Antony or a new RB signing that can provide the overlapping support Antony needs to have any kind of effectiveness. My two preferred options would be Nico Williams for the RW and Frimpong at RB.

Let's say Tchouameni isn't available and would have cost us €100m, I think we're better off stretching the budget over 6 signings. Something like:

DM - Gourna-Douath or Florentino Luis (€40m)
CM - Thuram or K.Kone (€40m)
CB1 - Diomande (€75m)
CB2 - Branthwaite (€65m)
ST - Zirkzee (€40m)

+ one out of

RW - N.Williams (€50m) >> Antony out (most likely a loan)
RB - Frimpong (€40m) >> AWB out

Roughly €300m spend which I don't think is that unrealistic. If it is then there are possible cheaper options at CB like Todibo and Scalvini that we could explore. Have swapped out Onana in this example due to budget but also as the DM options I've chosen are not as complete as Tchouameni and would need better ball carriers around them probably.

There are also some nice out of contract options we should consider in IMO: Lloyd Kelly at Bournemouth as a LCB alternative, Zielinski or Rabiot as an experienced CM alternative, Rafa Silva at Benfica if we need more depth across the forward line, Iheanacho or Ben Yedder at Monaco as a back-up ST.

The hope is then that Joao Neves stays as Benfica another year and we can go all in for him next summer when we have less rebuilding to do.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

We’ve got to effectively start all over again, we have some potentially good youngsters in Mainoo, Rasmus, Garnacho and possibly Amad.

But when you look as rest of the squad there is virtually no one other than maybe Shaw and Martinez who would be good enough to start for a team competing at the top of the league in 2-3 years time. The squad is littered with players who aren’t good enough like Dalot, AWB, Lindelof, Mctominay etc or whose best football has already been played or soon will be Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Maguire, Bruno.

As I’ve been saying for years it’s a huge overhaul required and completely different approach to recruitment that absolutely guts this squad.

This is accurate. We have very little in terms of players who could be top club material. The vast majority of our squad are mentally weak, mid-table players at best. A huge change is required.

You run on a treadmill of mediocrity until either something completely changes in the sport like (states taking over clubs and new leagues) or you just slowly fade into Everton for example.

I actually think we are in danger of the second one. If I was a betting man I really doubt we’ll be back at the top of the game.

I actually don’t see how without a states backing our club can be at our past level. History wise we had far more down times than the likes of Madrid and Juve.

We had a chance to be Real Madrid in the 00’s but corporate greed, lack of ambition sporting wise mixed with a little bit of bad luck in European competitions stopped us getting anywhere close.

Then they had their lucky run which utterly destroyed any notion of us been anything like them apart from selling shirts - which fades someday without the guaranteed success they have in their country.

I do think that mediocrity is beckoning for our club. In 10 years I imagine we'll be happy just to get a scrappy draw against one of the big teams like City or Liverpool, staying away from relegation and that'll be our season most years.

 

[Roboc7]

This is accurate. We have very little in terms of players who could be top club material. The vast majority of our squad are mentally weak, mid-table players at best. A huge change is required.



I do think that mediocrity is beckoning for our club. In 10 years I imagine we'll be happy just to get a scrappy draw against one of the big teams like City or Liverpool, staying away from relegation and that'll be our season most years.

There is a real possibility more mediocrity beckons but I also think there is a real opportunity to change things for the better. The difference an actual DOF, with a competent staff and some leadership who have the intention and desire to be successful can’t be underestimated.

The club has been rudderless since SAF left so having people trying to finally fill that void and run a football club should in theory make a big difference. I just hope that INEOS have the balls to really dismantle this squad and don’t think there are short cuts back to the top. We’ve seen consistently that signing 3-4 players and playing them alongside all the players we know aren’t good enough simply doesn’t work. Big changes over next few summers are desperately needed and our match day squad should look vastly different in 2-3 years.

 

[Adnan]

Agree with everything in this from a tactical perspective and I also like the signing suggestions (including Gourna-Douath if we miss out on Tchou or he stays at Madrid). Tchou is a dream signing though so if he is available we should be doing our best to go for him, but I fear we are too soon into the INEOS project potentially to win a big player like that due to football reasons rather than money which has been a big problem for us up until now.

However, I don't think we can go into a another season without changing something on the right-hand side, so unless in your vision above Greenwood or Sancho are coming back, I think we are either missing a new forward signing to replace Antony or a new RB signing that can provide the overlapping support Antony needs to have any kind of effectiveness. My two preferred options would be Nico Williams for the RW and Frimpong at RB.

Let's say Tchouameni isn't available and would have cost us €100m, I think we're better off stretching the budget over 6 signings. Something like:

DM - Gourna-Douath or Florentino Luis (€40m)
CM - Thuram or K.Kone (€40m)
CB1 - Diomande (€75m)
CB2 - Branthwaite (€65m)
ST - Zirkzee (€40m)

+ one out of

RW - N.Williams (€50m) >> Antony out (most likely a loan)
RB - Frimpong (€40m) >> AWB out

Roughly €300m spend which I don't think is that unrealistic. If it is then there are possible cheaper options at CB like Todibo and Scalvini that we could explore. Have swapped out Onana in this example due to budget but also as the DM options I've chosen are not as complete as Tchouameni and would need better ball carriers around them probably.

There are also some nice out of contract options we should consider in IMO: Lloyd Kelly at Bournemouth as a LCB alternative, Zielinski or Rabiot as an experienced CM alternative, Rafa Silva at Benfica if we need more depth across the forward line, Iheanacho or Ben Yedder at Monaco as a back-up ST.

The hope is then that Joao Neves stays as Benfica another year and we can go all in for him next summer when we have less rebuilding to do.

Good post and I completely agree with your thinking. We've also been gutting the squad for almost 10 years, without much change. And the key here is to build the team around tactical principles. We've got rid of players in the past who were arguably better at certain aspects than the players that were bought in to replace them for considerable sums of money. And this isn't a case of actively looking to gut the squad, but rather having to replace players who are looking to leave or will be looking to leave. Players like Sancho, Martial, Casemiro, Varane are four players who I believe will be moved on for various reasons, and then there's the possibility of seeing others also leave like Lindelof, Maguire, McTominay etc. But it might not be prudent to get rid of all the the CBs at once, because as much as some fans want to see everything gutted and destroyed, a build/rebuild should always be centred around tactical principles and not how quickly players can be signed like some fans like to see from the impression I get. Paratici at Spurs seemed to be signing players without understanding how Conte implemented his tactical system, which was surprising, considering that Conte had worked with Paratici before. So it wasn't a surprise to see Conte sacked in the end.

Signing 4 or 5 players to replace 4 or 5 players in the team has the potential to make a big change. But those players that need to be signed have to be a tactical fit for the way the game is being played now. Sancho and Martial leaving opens up the possibility for a wide forward and striker arriving naturally. And with players like Casemiro, Varane and McTominay leaving, it opens up the possibility of signing younger players who will enhance our ability to defend large spaces and hence help us better control the defensive transition when playing the game 40 yards higher up the pitch. Because we can't control the game in defensive transition, it's extremely difficult to implement a high press and play the game in the opponent's half. So because we don't have those players in the team currently, the weaknesses of quite of a few of our players are standing out more than they normally would.

Once all the players are in the team, then it will be clear to see the direction going forward.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Good post and I completely agree with your thinking. We've also been gutting the squad for almost 10 years, without much change. And the key here is to build the team around tactical principles. We've got rid of players in the past who were arguably better at certain aspects than the players that were bought in to replace them for considerable sums of money. And this isn't a case of actively looking to gut the squad, but rather having to replace players who are looking to leave or will be looking to leave. Players like Sancho, Martial, Casemiro, Varane are four players who I believe will be moved on for various reasons, and then there's the possibility of seeing others also leave like Lindelof, Maguire, McTominay etc. But it might not be prudent to get rid of all the the CBs at once, because as much as some fans want to see everything gutted and destroyed, a build/rebuild should always be centred around tactical principles and not how quickly players can be signed like some fans like to see from the impression I get. Paratici at Spurs seemed to be signing players without understanding how Conte implemented his tactical system, which was surprising, considering that Conte had worked with Paratici before. So it wasn't a surprise to see Conte sacked in the end.

Signing 4 or 5 players to replace 4 or 5 players in the team has the potential to make a big change. But those players that need to be signed have to be a tactical fit for the way the game is being played now. Sancho and Martial leaving opens up the possibility for a wide forward and striker arriving naturally. And with players like Casemiro, Varane and McTominay leaving, it opens up the possibility of signing younger players who will enhance our ability to defend large spaces and hence help us better control the defensive transition when playing the game 40 yards higher up the pitch. Because we can't control the game in defensive transition, it's extremely difficult to implement a high press and play the game in the opponent's half. So because we don't have those players in the team currently, the weaknesses of quite of a few of our players are standing out more than they normally would.

Once all the players are in the team, then it will be clear to see the direction going forward.

I agree. A striker is a necessity

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Probably the best thing we could do is tray and get as many players of the books as we can. I dunno if the rumors' of the Saudi league being interested in Varane and Casimero are true but if they are get rid.

Here's my current keepable team:

Garnachos



Shaw Martinez AWB (sort of)

(Casa and Varane are great but going forward we cannot build a squad around them. Bruno worth a mention, i'm getting to the point i think he's replaceable. Rash has fallen off a cliff and i'm not sure he's returning.)

Rash fell of a cliff when we signed Lukaku. He just had a few good months last season because he was playing for a new contract.

 

[daba]

Good post and I completely agree with your thinking. We've also been gutting the squad for almost 10 years, without much change. And the key here is to build the team around tactical principles. We've got rid of players in the past who were arguably better at certain aspects than the players that were bought in to replace them for considerable sums of money. And this isn't a case of actively looking to gut the squad, but rather having to replace players who are looking to leave or will be looking to leave. Players like Sancho, Martial, Casemiro, Varane are four players who I believe will be moved on for various reasons, and then there's the possibility of seeing others also leave like Lindelof, Maguire, McTominay etc. But it might not be prudent to get rid of all the the CBs at once, because as much as some fans want to see everything gutted and destroyed, a build/rebuild should always be centred around tactical principles and not how quickly players can be signed like some fans like to see from the impression I get. Paratici at Spurs seemed to be signing players without understanding how Conte implemented his tactical system, which was surprising, considering that Conte had worked with Paratici before. So it wasn't a surprise to see Conte sacked in the end.

Signing 4 or 5 players to replace 4 or 5 players in the team has the potential to make a big change. But those players that need to be signed have to be a tactical fit for the way the game is being played now. Sancho and Martial leaving opens up the possibility for a wide forward and striker arriving naturally. And with players like Casemiro, Varane and McTominay leaving, it opens up the possibility of signing younger players who will enhance our ability to defend large spaces and hence help us better control the defensive transition when playing the game 40 yards higher up the pitch. Because we can't control the game in defensive transition, it's extremely difficult to implement a high press and play the game in the opponent's half. So because we don't have those players in the team currently, the weaknesses of quite of a few of our players are standing out more than they normally would.

Once all the players are in the team, then it will be clear to see the direction going forward.

Certainly seems like INEOS are intent on getting rid of significant earners in the team. Like you said there are varying reasons in addition to them being high earners but the only one I’d consider keeping around is Casemiro provided he shows some form in the second half of the season. Apart from that Sancho, Martial and Varane should all 100% be leaving hopefully. McTominay is another I think needs to leave as we can get a decent fee for him which will be great for FFP, but also I don’t think we can afford to have passengers in the team who are kept around because they’re good trainers, academy players, but can’t play the system we want to play. Pep Guardiola certainly wouldn’t keep someone like that around, so why do we?

I hoping for a decent amount of change this summer, but we need to be smart with how we handle it. Chelsea showed the world how not to do it, so hopefully we get the right people in place as early as possible to plan and execute properly.

 

[Isotope]

Just want to see at least one skillful hard man in midfield. And no, McTom is not that player.

 

[Redivy]

Just want to see at least one skillful hard man in midfield. And no, McTom is not that player.

Would love to see us replace McTominay with Federico Redondo. The kid is such a big talent, tenacious, good on the ball and should be relatively cheaper than other midfield targets.

In: Redondo, Branthwaite, Frimpong and Nico Williams.

Out: Maguire, McTominay, Dalot, Sancho, Martial.

 

[Adnan]

Certainly seems like INEOS are intent on getting rid of significant earners in the team. Like you said there are varying reasons in addition to them being high earners but the only one I’d consider keeping around is Casemiro provided he shows some form in the second half of the season. Apart from that Sancho, Martial and Varane should all 100% be leaving hopefully. McTominay is another I think needs to leave as we can get a decent fee for him which will be great for FFP, but also I don’t think we can afford to have passengers in the team who are kept around because they’re good trainers, academy players, but can’t play the system we want to play. Pep Guardiola certainly wouldn’t keep someone like that around, so why do we?

I hoping for a decent amount of change this summer, but we need to be smart with how we handle it. Chelsea showed the world how not to do it, so hopefully we get the right people in place as early as possible to plan and execute properly.

Agreed.

Once you have a owner who prioritises football success over owning the club solely for the purpose of making money. Then you will see something develop on the pitch sooner rather rather than later. At Brighton it all kicked off with their owner who set the direction for everyone else to follow. And there's numerous people who are capable of running a successful football club, but there has to be ambitious from the very top. And if there's ambition fron the very top, then history has shown that people with little to no experience have led football departments successfully due to the backing at board room level. Txiki Begiristain at Barcelona got the role of the DoF with no prior experience of being a football director, but was given the job because he was a friend of Joan Laporta the Presideht of Barcelona. Paratici who many wanted on here, didn't even seem to understand how Conte wanted to play and just seemed to be signing players for the sake of it which eventually got Conte fired.

A director of football is judged on the direction he takes the club from a football perspective and not how quickly he can sign players. And a judgement on a director of football is made over 3 to 5 years with a structure in place, because without a structure most DoFs will be hampered. It doesn't matter how experienced a DoF is, if his ideas on football are flawed to begin with regards the competition in the league. The best DoF is one who has the right idea, and imo, the right idea to compete with the likes of City and Liverpool, and hence develop a team that can play through the defensive third, press high and control the defensive transition by having a strong rest defense whilst committing players in the attacking third. It's why Rangnick was a bad idea imo, because his teams don't play the through the defensive third and instead he had midfield runners like Laimer and Haidara occupying positions at the base of midfield. That idea isn't going to best a team that is coached to dominate the game in all phases of play over the course of a season. Hence the likes of Klopp and Tuchel were heavily influenced by the likes of Sacchi and Wenger, who in-turn were influenced by the Dutch team of the 1970s.

I'm not sure if Ratcliffe will be here in the mid to long-term with the Glazers reportedly having the option to sell sell the club outright in the next 18 months. So unless Ratcliffe matches a offer that the Glazers accept, then I think there could be more instability at the club to come.

But I do expect things to fall into place now. There could certainly be ups and downs, but I think it should now be a matter of time before we see a competitive team. And the difference makers in the current football landscape are the likes of Kaldoon Al Mubarak, Tony Bloom and Joan Laporta in the past. Hopefully Jim Ratcliffe can be the driver for success for us, because I fully expect a upward trajectory from here on in. And like I've said previously, I think one good window where we address our pace and power issues, will make a difference.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Not a bad video. Hope ineos does something similar

 

[Overhaul FC]

It really does look like we won't make any January signings now that Martial is staying and having surgery. Not saying it's the wrong approach to wait til the summer.... But it's boring.

 

[daba]

Not a bad video. Hope ineos does something similar

I like Bardgjhi a lot but would it be too much having him and Amad leading our RW options?

Redondo looks the part but at the rumoured prices I’m amazed he hasn’t been snapped up yet. As much as I like the look of him (from admittedly strictly YT highlight videos) hes just not the type of signing we ever make so I don’t see it happening.

Antonio Silva I’d take but I think Benfica would rip us off for him badly, so I think there are better alternative options at CB personally.

 

[Mylock]

The following players would be a good start in rebuilding the team.

Branthwaite 45 m
Vermeeren 25m
Bardgjhi 15 m
Scalvini 45 m
D Costa 45 to replace Onana

 

[Sir Matt]

I'm not sure how United rebuild without replacing Onana. He's worse than any starting keeper United have had in the last 25 years, and, regardless of the defense, he's going to let the team down routinely on his own (see: the whole Champions League campaign).

 

[Mylock]

I'm not sure how United rebuild without replacing Onana. He's worse than any starting keeper United have had in the last 25 years, and, regardless of the defense, he's going to let the team down routinely on his own (see: the whole Champions League campaign).

I don't know what eth was thinking buying Onana, technically limited keeper that we can't live I hope that he will improve

 

[RatPack]

With Onana people evaluate him on his crappy games in CL. He has not been that bad in PL. De Gea also had a lot of blunders.

With Hojlund people evaluate on his PL, but disregard he was great in CL.

I would like to see more of both.

Especially with 3 new midfielders that can keep ball possesion and protect the defenders and GK.